Italy v England... Are you going to risk it.

With current Government guidelines allowing the Italy v England game, in Rome, to go ahead...

How many of you, who planned to go, are still going..

DONT BOOK CHEAP FLIGHTS... TO BE PLAYED BEHIND CLOSED DOORS... Sky news just reported.

Its now official... POSTPONED..
https://www.sixnationsrugby.com/2020/03/05/six-nations-statement-on-italy-v-england-games-weekend-13-14-15-march/

With the current Government guidelines, would go if I had booked. May even see if some cheap packages are available next week.

LondonTiger wrote:With the current Government guidelines, would go if I had booked. May even see if some cheap packages are available next week.

Bloody right, the current guidelines, put in place on the advice of very senior medical officers advising the Government, are clear.

Its the media whipping up the over-reaction. The way the BBC reported it yesterday, you'd think the zombie apocalypse was upon us.

There's some great cheap deals on foreign holidays to be had now, especially to Italy.

+1

79 Italians would disagree if they were still interested in the debate.

Khouli Khan wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:With the current Government guidelines, would go if I had booked. May even see if some cheap packages are available next week.

Bloody right, the current guidelines, put in place on the advice of very senior medical officers advising the Government, are clear.

Its the media whipping up the over-reaction. The way the BBC reported it yesterday, you'd think the zombie apocalypse was upon us.

There's some great cheap deals on foreign holidays to be had now, especially to Italy.

Well its not a zombie apocalypse, and its not even the black death, but it is highly likely to kill a lot of people. Just knocking enough people out of work for a few weeks (plus the fear factor of course) may cause a cascade effect that will screw the economy, right at a time when our glorious part time leader is doing his best to screw it anyway.

Worth researching what is actually happening in Iran for instance, and what is going to happen in bits of the USA in the unlikely scenario that Pence's prayers don't work. We won't get it as bad as they will, but we could be in for a rocky ride for a while.

SecretFly wrote:79 Italians would disagree if they were still interested in the debate.

I wonder how many died from seasonal flu, or other common or garden ailments that never gets reported.....

The media are hyping this up, and people are swallowing it. 79 people.... whoopy doo.

I think the media must have shares in protective equipment and hand gel.

Seasonal flu kills far too many people, yet it is rarely reported.

Yes its bad and precautions should be taken but l wished the media (Left & Right) would keep it in perspective and stop the dramatic reporting and using it as a chance to blame Boris and the Government.

Khouli Khan wrote:

SecretFly wrote:79 Italians would disagree if they were still interested in the debate.

I wonder how many died from seasonal flu, or other common or garden ailments that never gets reported.....

The media are hyping this up, and people are swallowing it. 79 people.... whoopy doo.

Estimates are putting fatalities due to coronvirus at 20x the rate for flu. It is also very contagious and can spread from people showing no symptoms. People do die from all kinds of bugs, especially those with immunity issues and those who are already infirm, and this bug will generally just kill more of the ones who 'would have died of something'. It is causing deaths outside of that group too, although less.

Unless we are at risk the dangers are not huge but they are there, and if we are exposed the chances of us passing the virus on to loved ones who may not be so resistant is high.

Of course the media are full of it, but worth noting that because of the way this bug works we don't actually have any real idea of how far it has spread. Recorded cases are based on cases which are tested. Those people who are not tested don't get counted and deaths may also be recorded as due to other causes. In the cases I mentioned earlier (US and Iran) they just are not testing enough people. In Iran they are digging pits for the bodies though.

We can revisit your comments in a few weeks time.

I do not believe the media are hyping this up, but common sense has to apply to all decisions. On current information the risk of going to a match in Rome to watch England is no higher than me going to the Royal Albert Hall tonight to watch my daughter perform.

I'm not worried about catching it. I'm reasonably healthy with no underlying issues, but I would be worried that I caught it and had to be off work in isolation for 14 days as Statutory Sick Pay at £90 per week is pretty rotten to live on.

I'd also not want to risk passing it onto any other human being.

I'm in Japan, where the schools are shut down for the month; concerts and sports events cancelled, and museums, galleries, theme parks & libraries closed.

Anyone arguing fears are overblown is just guessing. No-one has a complete grip on this new strain, so we are acting as if the worst might happen. If the worst subsequently doesn't happen, then it may be because the threat wasn't really that high, or it might be because our own actions helped deal with the problem. You can't know the answer to that already.

We do know that this strain seems highly contagious. We don't know what the death rate is, because there may be a lot of unreported infections which, if known, could lower the overall rate. Alternatively, we may not have received accurate death reporting from China, which might make the death rate higher than we know. 1%-4% is the band I'm most commonly seeing.

The Diamond Princess is currently around the 1% mark, with 6 deaths from 700 infections. However, if you had friends going somewhere with 3,700 people, and were told 6 of that number would die, you would surely advise your friends not to go. Numbers often don't mean a lot until they get personal.

The bigger risk is how contagious this coronavirus might be. If it spreads through the population like Wuhan, then it overwhelms local medical facilities, meaning anyone else needing treatment can't get it. If you are a diabetic, and run out of insulin, then you don't have to catch the virus, for it to be deadly for you.

Just on the BBC News at 1pm, it seems Italy have issued a month closure of Universities and schools, as the corona-virus grabs hold. The news also added that the Italian Government are taking decisions on cancelling sporting events. With Northern Italy being the bedrock of rugby in Italy, I'll be surprised if this game isn't cancelled by the start of next week, to avoid the Italian rugby fans (mostly from effected areas) travelling to Rome.

tigertattie wrote:I'm not worried about catching it. I'm reasonably healthy with no underlying issues, but I would be worried that I caught it and had to be off work in isolation for 14 days as Statutory Sick Pay at £90 per week is pretty rotten to live on.

I'd also not want to risk passing it onto any other human being.

The Government has announced that statutory sick pay will be paid from day 1 of absence in emergency legislation. So, I suppose that means you get 3 days pay you wouldn't normally have had.

If you catch it, which most likely, you wont.

LondonTiger wrote:

This is an important subject, and has a potentially massive impact on Rugby.

Massive impact potential on rugby...and health.  That's two sides of a coin and at this point in our old world with all its seemingly mounting problems upon problems.... and no new New World to escape to anymore (at least as long as Martians refuse visas for Earthlings)...... rugby comes way way down the list of my personal priorities right now.

Johnson side stepped the question on sick pay coverage of self employed and 0 hours. Colour me shocked. Can't see this game going ahead next week.

SecretFly wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

This is an important subject, and has a potentially massive impact on Rugby.

Massive impact potential on rugby...and health.  That's two sides of a coin and at this point in our old world with all its seemingly mounting problems upon problems.... and no new New World to escape to anymore (at least as long as Martians refuse visas for Earthlings)...... rugby comes way way down the list of my personal priorities right now.

I agree that a rugby is not overly important. This is however a rugby forum, so the impacts of Covid 19 on rugby will be discussed.

I see the closure of schools in Italy is not actually decided upon just yet - Reuters jumped the gun in that story. If they do make that decision though it does suggest that the game on Saturday will be called off.

LondonTiger wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

This is an important subject, and has a potentially massive impact on Rugby.

Massive impact potential on rugby...and health.  That's two sides of a coin and at this point in our old world with all its seemingly mounting problems upon problems.... and no new New World to escape to anymore (at least as long as Martians refuse visas for Earthlings)...... rugby comes way way down the list of my personal priorities right now.

I agree that a rugby is not overly important. This is however a rugby forum, so the impacts of Covid 19 on rugby will be discussed.

I see the closure of schools in Italy is not actually decided upon just yet - Reuters jumped the gun in that story. If they do make that decision though it does suggest that the game on Saturday will be called off.

Went to the same school of journalism as the BBC you see....... load of hype.

I'd be disappointed if the Italy v England game was off. If it isn't called off, kind of puts the Irish decision to postpone in an awkward place. Not that they over-reacted or anything.

The Irish Government are pretty consistent, and are putting the well being of their people at the forefront of their decision making. By taking an early decision they can be accused of over reacting, but they have also given people plenty of time to plan. If the Italian Govt do close all schools, then the Irish decision looks a lot less hasty.

It should be noted that the number of cases in the UK has almost doubled so far today and the number who caught it without travelling overseas quadrupled. Still small numbers but supports the measures that our Govt are putting in place. BoZo predicted that 20% of the work force could be off work with this, while NHS England has suggested a 1% mortality rate. That could equate to 130,000 deaths in the UK.

We have 1,000 confirmed cases in Japan, spread around the country. We know it's here in some form, the challenge is to stop it spreading.

With something like a sports event, it's not a question of individuals judging for themselves whether they are at personal risk. You cancel such gatherings to promote a policy of social separation.

Healthy individuals can still catch the virus, and pass it on to more vulnerable individuals. Just over two weeks ago, I attended the Sunwolves vs Chiefs match in central Tokyo. There were 18,000 people in the crowd which is nearly five Diamond Princess cruise liners. The stadium was open air but most of those 18,000 funneled to and from the game through two very confined subway stations.

As a crowd, we were probably considerably more healthy than an average population sample of 18,000 but many of us subsequently had contact with more vulnerable individuals. That's not the only reason to promote social separation: just two days later, I was at dinner with a young doctor and nurse. If I had developed symptoms, then they would also have been obliged to self-quarantine, taking them out of service, and putting pressure on their colleagues.

If social separation is a serious policy goal, you can't cherry-pick which events to cancel.

Rugby Fan wrote:We have 1,000 confirmed cases in Japan, spread around the country. We know it's here in some form, the challenge is to stop it spreading.

With something like a sports event, it's not a question of individuals judging for themselves whether they are at personal risk. You cancel such gatherings to promote a policy of social separation.

Healthy individuals can still catch the virus, and pass it on to more vulnerable individuals. Just over two weeks ago, I attended the Sunwolves vs Chiefs match in central Tokyo. There were 18,000 people in the crowd which is nearly five Diamond Princess cruis liners. The stadium was open air but most of those 18,000 funneled to and from the game through two very confined subway stations.

As a crowd, we were probably considerably more healthy than an average population sample of 18,000 but many of us subsequently had contact with more vulnerable individuals. That's not the only reason to promote social separation: just two days later, I was at dinner with a young doctor and nurse. If I had developed symptoms, then they would also have been obliged to self-quarantine, taking them out of service, and putting pressure on their colleagues.

If social separation is a serious policy goal, you can't cherry-pick which events to cancel.

Genuine question, where do you draw the line though? I'm off to a gig in Camden this weekend for example, I doubt there will be more than 300 people there, should that be cancelled?

Let public health England decide/advise on that as they're the experts.

Soul Requiem wrote:Genuine question, where do you draw the line though? I'm off to a gig in Camden this weekend for example, I doubt there will be more than 300 people there, should that be cancelled?

It is a good question. Initial government advice here seemed to suggest anywhere with a crowd of 500 or above was out. Many tourist venues have closed but Tokyo Tower is still open, with a limit of 300 on the observation deck. However a gig at a venue in Osaka, with a capacity of 100, has been identified as the source of 4 infections so far, after an infected person attended. Subsequently, the advice has change to focus not only on numbers but density. Gyms, mah jong parlours and gig venues are usually not that large in capacity but they can be sweaty, confined, and poorly ventilated.

We think we are on the alert here, but people from Singapore and Hong Kong can't believe how slow Japan has been to enact broad measures. They all had SARS much more than Japan, and are more au fait with lockdown procedures. The Tokyo Metropolitan Government building just started taking temperatures today of people entering the building. That's been standard in a lot of places in HK for nearly a month. The Hong Kong & Singapore Sevens were cancelled two weeks ago, which is six weeks before they were scheduled to take place.

SecretFly wrote:79 Italians would disagree if they were still interested in the debate.

109 now

Sky news just announced all games, including Italy v England to be played behind closed doors..ie no fans.

It's very interesting how different cultures react to this. In the East it seems to be treated as a threat and strong measures taken before things get worse. In the West it's more an idea of a threat and little is done until things get worse.

Not sure who's in the right, if any one is.

No9 wrote:Sky news just announced all games, including Italy v England to be played behind closed doors..ie no fans.

Including previously cancelled games?

No9 wrote:Sky news just announced all games, including Italy v England to be played behind closed doors..ie no fans.

All games in Italy that is.

yappysnap wrote:It's very interesting how different cultures react to this. In the East it seems to be treated as a threat and strong measures taken before things get worse. In the West it's more an idea of a threat and little is done until things get worse.

Not sure who's in the right, if any one is.

Either way it feels like an attempt to slow down the spread of the virus. Seems increasingly unlikely that it won't get everywhere over the next couple of months

Soul Requiem wrote:

No9 wrote:Sky news just announced all games, including Italy v England to be played behind closed doors..ie no fans.

All games in Italy that is.

Yes, sorry, not clear of me. That the Italian Government decision, for all games held in Italy.

Will be odd watching an international match on the telebox with no crowd there.

They’ll not even be able to mic up the ref as without the crowd to drown it out, you’ll hear all the shouting and swearing from the players

According to the Times the 6Ns 6Ns committee have decided to postpone the game indefinitely.

Apparently BBC and ITV had already decided not to send crews out.

yappysnap wrote:It's very interesting how different cultures react to this. In the East it seems to be treated as a threat and strong measures taken before things get worse. In the West it's more an idea of a threat and little is done until things get worse.

The speed and nature of the response is highly correlated with previosu experience. Singapore, Taiwan and Hong Kong had SARS, while Korea had MERS. Japan didn't really get seriously affected by either, so the government has relied more on advice than orders. Article here on the difference:

https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Coronavirus/Japan-s-virus-response-lacked-boldness-of-Singapore-and-Taiwan

There are concerns in Japan that the number of positive results remains low, because only around 900 people a day are being tested. South Korea can test 15,000 a day, and has already tested well over 100,000. Britain is testing at a faster rate than Japan, which shouldn't be the case, given relative proximity to the source. Some believe Japan doesn't want to feature highly on lists of confirmed cases, because it doesn't want to jeopardize the Olympics.

LondonTiger wrote:According to the Times the 6Ns 6Ns committee have decided to postpone the game indefinitely.

Apparently BBC and ITV had already decided not to send crews out.

That seems sensible to me.

Rugby Fan wrote:

yappysnap wrote:It's very interesting how different cultures react to this. In the East it seems to be treated as a threat and strong measures taken before things get worse. In the West it's more an idea of a threat and little is done until things get worse.

The speed and nature of the response is highly correlated with previosu experience. Singapore, Taiwan and Hong Kong had SARS, while Korea had MERS. Japan didn't really get seriously affected by either, so the government has relied more on advice than orders. Article here on the difference:

https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Coronavirus/Japan-s-virus-response-lacked-boldness-of-Singapore-and-Taiwan

There are concerns in Japan that the number of positive results remains low, because only around 900 people a day are being tested. South Korea can test 15,000 a day, and has already tested well over 100,000. Britain is testing at a faster rate than Japan, which shouldn't be the case, given relative proximity to the source. Some believe Japan doesn't want to feature highly on lists of confirmed cases, because it doesn't want to jeopardize the Olympics.

New Zealand as well seems pretty relaxed about the spread of the virus. We've only had a tiny number of cases though and the government has tested others that were on the flight with the sick person. I guess we'll wait and see if we've skipped the worst.

Bit pointless, just give England a 40+ points win and be done with it.

Daily Mail reporting that it has been postponed.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-8075495/Englands-final-Six-Nations-clash-Italy-Rome-postponed.html

Can we all just agree that Parisse is a bad luck charm?

TightHEAD wrote:Bit pointless, just give England a 40+ points win and be done with it.

Only if we get a 60+ point win this weekend. It is after all a home game so fair is fair.

TightHEAD wrote:Daily Mail reporting that it has been postponed.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-8075495/Englands-final-Six-Nations-clash-Italy-Rome-postponed.html

This still seems to be in the air.... Reading it, it seems the Italy rugby arent happy about it being played behind closed doors as they will loose a sh!t lot of money.... But no formal decision on postponing has been made. However, the Italian Government decision on all events being played without fans, has been made and the 6 Nations have no option if they want to play the game (in Italy).

Broadcasters have already decided to cover it remote, so wont travel to Italy. I guess the camera crew covering will be local.

So we have to wait to see if the Unions agree to postpone, rather than play in an empty stadium.

They really should announce their formal decision as soon as possible, as those who have bought flights and hotels need to cancel to try and get some refund. Sooner they can cancel the better the chance. Unless of course you booked a FlyBe flight, in which case your decision has been made for you.

Just seen the 6 Nations and Unions are meeting today to decide the outcome of these games... So expect decision on whether to play behind closed doors or postpone later today...

No9 wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:Daily Mail reporting that it has been postponed.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-8075495/Englands-final-Six-Nations-clash-Italy-Rome-postponed.html

This still seems to be in the air.... Reading it, it seems the Italy rugby arent happy about it being played behind closed doors as they will loose a sh!t lot of money.... But no formal decision on postponing has been made. However, the Italian Government decision on all events being played without fans, has been made and the 6 Nations have no option if they want to play the game (in Italy).

Broadcasters have already decided to cover it remote, so wont travel to Italy. I guess the camera crew covering will be local.

So we have to wait to see if the Unions agree to postpone, rather than play in an empty stadium.

They really should announce their formal decision as soon as possible, as those who have bought flights and hotels need to cancel to try and get some refund. Sooner they can cancel the better the chance. Unless of course you booked a FlyBe flight, in which case your decision has been made for you.

If France win the grand slam which looks likely will they bother with the Italy games later in the year?

SecretFly wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:Bit pointless, just give England a 40+ points win and be done with it.

Only if we get a 60+ point win this weekend.  It is after all a home game so fair is fair.

60+!!!! - Ireland wouldn't get 60 points if they played for 240 mins.

Soul Requiem wrote:

No9 wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:Daily Mail reporting that it has been postponed.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-8075495/Englands-final-Six-Nations-clash-Italy-Rome-postponed.html

This still seems to be in the air.... Reading it, it seems the Italy rugby arent happy about it being played behind closed doors as they will loose a sh!t lot of money.... But no formal decision on postponing has been made. However, the Italian Government decision on all events being played without fans, has been made and the 6 Nations have no option if they want to play the game (in Italy).

Broadcasters have already decided to cover it remote, so wont travel to Italy. I guess the camera crew covering will be local.

So we have to wait to see if the Unions agree to postpone, rather than play in an empty stadium.

They really should announce their formal decision as soon as possible, as those who have bought flights and hotels need to cancel to try and get some refund. Sooner they can cancel the better the chance. Unless of course you booked a FlyBe flight, in which case your decision has been made for you.

If France win the grand slam which looks likely will they bother with the Italy games later in the year?

I have said that, constantly, on other thread on 6 Nations being cancelled, and been kicked down for it..

I agree, I France go on to win the Slam, then the rest of the games are pointless and should just be canned.

TightHEAD wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:Bit pointless, just give England a 40+ points win and be done with it.

Only if we get a 60+ point win this weekend.  It is after all a home game so fair is fair.

60+!!!! - Ireland wouldn't get 60 points if they played for 240 mins.

And no Bonus Points should be awarded, as there is no guarantee that either side will score a try never mind 4...

The games are not pointless (unless they are not played). They won't impact the 6N - may well not have done anyway- but they are still test matches

lostinwales wrote:The games are not pointless (unless they are not played). They won't impact the 6N - may well not have done anyway- but they are still test matches

Agree they are test matches, but if rearranged for Autumn (as its been suggested) and the Slam has already been won by France, I cant see the clubs being happy releasing players for a game to decide 2nd,3rd,4th spot in a tournament that has already been won. But then on the other hand, if the clubs dont release the "top" players, perhaps Italy could beat Ireland and England and hand the Wooden Spoon to Scotland, guess that would mean something to Italy.

Pointless or not... Unless the title is still up for grabs for both Ireland and England, I think they'll be a damp squib.

TightHEAD wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:Bit pointless, just give England a 40+ points win and be done with it.

Only if we get a 60+ point win this weekend.  It is after all a home game so fair is fair.

60+!!!! - Ireland wouldn't get 60 points if they played for 240 mins.

Correct. We'd hardly get any points at all if Barnes was reffing. Well spotted.

Sounds like it's going to be called off so May will have to wait to redefine wing play.

TightHEAD wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:Bit pointless, just give England a 40+ points win and be done with it.

Only if we get a 60+ point win this weekend.  It is after all a home game so fair is fair.

60+!!!! - Ireland wouldn't get 60 points if they played for 240 mins.

Ireland tend to have higher points wins over Italy than anyone else. England have not put 60 points plus on Italy since 2001, Ireland did it in 2017, Wales in 2016.

Wales and Ireland have racked up over 60 points on Italy 3 times, England twice.

I have to say I wouldn't attend an Ireland v Italy game at this point. Why take the risk.