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Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

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Plunky
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navyblueshorts
beninho
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Post by dynamark Thu 26 Mar 2020, 8:14 pm

I suppose it sort of makes sense with the Dyson effort because they just have to switch to blow.
Hope it works.
The self employed will have to adjust in future and get a bit closer to the NI and paye system.It has always been a bit unwritten that you can limit your contributions somewhat as self employed in the building trade and others but a big part of the economy. Again this may close a few gaps

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Post by super_realist Fri 27 Mar 2020, 6:52 am

beninho wrote:She did look pretty thin!  But, I still think it's a wake up call to people anywhere up to 40,  that people are suffering of not dieing.

It's very easy to report that someone has no underlying medical conditions and being 21 its very easy to believe you don't.
However it's far too early to tell if she did or not. You just need to look at people like Fabrice Muamba to see that health problems don't always manifest themselves until it is too late. I don't think we can assume that every younger person who gets this will not have adverse reactions.

Yes it's concerning, but we really are not in the position to say whether or not there are any other circumstances at play. Keep an open mind, don't just assume she was perfectly healthy but similarly we also can't assume that young people will all just shrug it off. Not all young people who are seemingly healthy actually are.


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Post by super_realist Fri 27 Mar 2020, 6:53 am

I see that Corbyn is now taking credit for the necessary government spending. Could this moron be any more deluded and self absorbed?
How could someone not see the difference between policy and funding a country through the biggest crisis in a century?

Just leave now Corbyn, you're a dead duck.

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Post by dynamark Fri 27 Mar 2020, 7:54 am

Just read that too SR hard to believe the man had the support of even his own party. Hes away next weekend.
I had convinced myself that today was Saturday after days doing little so imagine my surprise to put the radio on and hear Nicki Campbell

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Post by super_realist Fri 27 Mar 2020, 8:02 am

dynamark wrote:Just read that too SR hard to believe the man had the support of even his own party. Hes away next weekend.
I had convinced myself that today was Saturday after days doing little so imagine my surprise to put the radio on and hear Nicki Campbell

I used to like listening to 5 Live in the morning, but it became such a dreadful lecture on climate change to the point that every single weather event must have been caused by it that I had to stop listening.

This is Nicky Campbell's finest moment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkfqH6GZyfg

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Post by JAS Fri 27 Mar 2020, 8:23 am

super_realist wrote:I see that Corbyn is now taking credit for the necessary government spending. Could this moron be any more deluded and self absorbed?
How could someone not see the difference between policy and funding a country through the biggest crisis in a century?

Just leave now Corbyn, you're a dead duck.

Super, have you really got eff all else to do but scour the media, looking for quotes from yesterday’s politicians. What Corbyn says or doesn’t say doesn’t really matter anymore, the country made it clear it didn’t want to listen to what he had to say so in that sense, what he does say now is pretty irrelevant to our current situation.
Having said that, in another sense he IS so so correct on much of what he’s saying. Had we not had 10 years of austerity the NHS and other public services would have been in a much much better starting position to fight this. Had we not had a few decades (yes Blair’s “moderate” government were also complicit) of moving toward a minimum wage gig economy where all the power is with greedy bosses, the working poor wouldnt feel so compelled to risk their health and the health of others to make sure they can put food on the table. I and I assume you are very lucky insofar as we can work from home in full pay and are thus insulated from the sharp end of this. Doesn’t mean we can’t see the fact that millions are being placed in a desperate situation. I’m not saying we wouldn’t be in dire trouble if we hadn’t had austerity, just that we would have been in a much better position on the starting blocks.

When this is all done, society will have to take a really serious look in the mirror, neoliberal economics is fine when all is going well, when we have a crisis however it clearly can’t cope. Stripping the state bare might seem like a great idea but not when it’s only for the benefit of very few. It’s like going without house insurance then trying to buy it when the house catches fire.

We really need to revisit idiotic statements from the past like “There is no such thing as Society” and “unemployment is a price worth paying” Those values rooted in the early stages of Thatcher Reagan neoliberalism need to be totally and utterly expunged from the nations psyche. Without a decent society binding us together this virus would toast us completely.

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Post by Soul Requiem Fri 27 Mar 2020, 8:33 am

Trump worries me at the moment, he has so little understanding of society and his bluster does not work in a crisis. He lacks any sort of compassion to make right decisions.

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Post by beninho Fri 27 Mar 2020, 8:36 am

Trump is awful, always has been awful and will stay awful. He hasn't got a clue and his handling of this looks bizarre at best. Open by Easter? All the bluster. A man so out of his depth.

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Post by super_realist Fri 27 Mar 2020, 8:36 am

JAS, for a start it was one of the main headlines on the BBC News website and it immediately struck me as an incredibly crass and stupid thing for Cotbyn to say, even for a man who sets a really low bar like Corbyn.

If the roof blows off your house and you spend 100k to replace it, you haven't done so for the social cohesion of the occupants, you've done it for the integrity of the building. Corbyn is completely wrong to claim that this absolutely necessary spending is in anyway a vindication of his policies.

Do you really think that had there not been 10 years of austerity that the NHS would be all that much better at coping with the current situation? We need to stop pretending that the NHS is somehow the best system and that it just needs funding to make it better, we need to look more at how it is set up, rather than just throwing money into a black poorly managed hole. This crisis has caught out and stretched to the max every single health service in the entire world.

As for working towards a minimum wage society, at least we have a minimum wage. There's always been a large poorer element of society throughout history so it's naïve to think that there a political system in the UK which can practicably change that. If you are one of the poor, it doesn't matter if it's a right or left wing government, you are going to be poor and you should stop pretending that somehow Socialism as outlined by the revolting Corbyn would change that.


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Post by beninho Fri 27 Mar 2020, 8:43 am

You have no idea what my views on the NHS are, so leave that out"


"Do you really think that had there not been 10 years of austerity that the NHS would be all that much better at coping with the current situation? We need to stop pretending that the NHS is somehow the best system and that it just needs funding to make it better, we need to look more at how it is set up, rather than just throwing money into a black poorly managed hole."

So, we do know you views on the NHS!

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Post by super_realist Fri 27 Mar 2020, 8:52 am

beninho wrote:
"Do you really think that had there not been 10 years of austerity that the NHS would be all that much better at coping with the current situation? We need to stop pretending that the NHS is somehow the best system and that it just needs funding to make it better, we need to look more at how it is set up, rather than just throwing money into a black poorly managed hole."

So, we do know you views on the NHS!

I can always trust you to not grasp a comment. This crisis has caught out and stretched every single health service in the entire world.
Of course I'd like a better health service and more money to be spent on it, just as I'd like the UK population to take it on themselves to put far less strain on the service through better life choices, but more money wouldn't necessarily have meant they were any better equipped to deal with an event of this size, furthermore something that can't be forecast like this means you don't have the expertise in the hospitals to deal with it, or the equipment. Stop looking through your hindsight spectacles because any armchair epidemiologist can do that.

We are where we are, and we are doing a lot better than many countries who put more resources into their health services, so you can't blame everything on a lack of funding or 10 years of austerity. Regardless of what had happened in the last 10 years, we'd still be crippled. It's not an excuse for lack of investment, but this is unprecedented and you ought to acknowledge that rather than point fingers because it doesn't help anyone.

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Post by beninho Fri 27 Mar 2020, 9:11 am

Of course its unprecedented, no one doubts that.

Doesn't mean that I cant hold the view that austerity under the Tory government has had an impact in the NHS.

Doesn't mean i cant hold the view, that i dont think the government has handled this well.

Unsure what you mean about pointing figures not helping anyone.

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Post by Soul Requiem Fri 27 Mar 2020, 9:18 am

Sitting indoors criticising the government at this present time does not help anyone. I myself have tried to separate politics from this as much as possible because it blinkers people and they base their opinions on the who as opposed to the why.

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Post by navyblueshorts Fri 27 Mar 2020, 10:05 am

beninho wrote:Of course its unprecedented, no one doubts that.

Doesn't mean that I cant hold the view that austerity under the Tory government has had an impact in the NHS.

Doesn't mean i cant hold the view, that i dont think the government has handled this well.

Unsure what you mean about pointing figures not helping anyone.
picard Anyone can sit there and throw brickbats. Time for dogmatic "My politics are better than yours!" kind of debate isn't now. Have an opinion; fine. That's all it is though, uninformed opinion.
About time we grew up, don't you think? Actually, don't know why I bother to ask, given this social media 'everyone has an opinion and it's important' era. For 99% of the population: no, your opinion isn't important just now.
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Post by beninho Fri 27 Mar 2020, 10:18 am

I'm not saying its important or anyone else has to agree. But I'm allowed an opinion. It has no impact on how I get on with it. It doesn't stop me helping people at threat of it or following government guidelines at work.

It's just an opinion. We all have them.

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Post by Soul Requiem Fri 27 Mar 2020, 10:39 am

What is that opinion based on? That's the issue.

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Post by beninho Fri 27 Mar 2020, 10:47 am

In life generally we make opinions based on what we see, hear, read or know.

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Post by dynamark Fri 27 Mar 2020, 10:47 am

Radio 5 was getting a bit repetitive on the climate issue.Cambell mentioned palm oil or orangutan every day. !
Cprbyn was interviewed by Laura K he didn't have to do the interview and didn't have to make those comments but it was par for the course as we say and suited the BBC as a headline .
Most media using inflamed terminology and asking silly questions to an extent . A week ago we were told the risk of infection was being in close company for 15 minutes with someone affected and now we are crossing the street so we don't even get close.

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Post by Soul Requiem Fri 27 Mar 2020, 11:09 am

beninho wrote:In life  generally we make opinions based on what we see, hear, read or know.

And what about when we lack the basic understanding of the subject matter?

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Post by beninho Fri 27 Mar 2020, 11:14 am

Then that doesn't stop people having an opinion. Look at Brexit.

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Post by beninho Fri 27 Mar 2020, 11:39 am

It got us out of the EU. People were allowed a vote on that.

An opinion is a lot less then a having a vote.

Do you think that everyone has a full understanding of everything that they have an opinion on?

What I was responding to seems to have vanished.

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Post by McLaren Fri 27 Mar 2020, 12:33 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:That's all it is though, uninformed opinion.

Do you really think the opinion that "austerity damaged the NHS" is uninformed? I have a sneaking suspicion that 5 minutes on a google scholar search (or whatever acedemic search engine you use) would turn up plenty of articles that could answer the question.
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Post by dynamark Fri 27 Mar 2020, 12:34 pm

See Boris has done a Blackadder and jumped out of the trench and got out into no mans land .
Might make the rest of us think yes that could be any of us.
Typical example of the media speech -Laura K just said 'for the time being Mr Johnson will be TRYING to run the government response'

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Post by kwinigolfer Fri 27 Mar 2020, 12:58 pm

dynamark wrote:See Boris has done a Blackadder and jumped out of the trench and got out into no mans land .
Might make the rest of us think yes that could be any of us.
Typical example of the media speech -Laura K just said 'for the time being Mr Johnson will be TRYING to run the government response'



From what the BBC printed, that's NOT what she said!

"BJ has been in close contact with the gov't's chief scientist and all of the people in charge of TRYING to handle HOW the gov't's various responses are going."
Quite a different meaning if you actually take the trouble to read it.

You should come over here dyna and try to put a spin on Drumpf's nonsense . . . . . . . . you'd have a fine old time defending his virus is a hoax garbage.

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Post by dynamark Fri 27 Mar 2020, 1:22 pm

Hi Kwini- I havnt been able to rerun pretty sure what I watched live(naf all else to do) but the point is the use of the word trying as opposed to just will be puts a negative in there that isn't relevant and is purely for impact.
Another one they have been quoting is Northwick park hospital Wembley/Harrow( next to a couple of decent golf facilites) had to declare a major incident for a day last week and they then move as planned as usual cases to nearby facilities.This one has been reused for days tp put the hospitals are flooded message out.
I doubt Mr Trump would need me ,Im good but maybe not that good ,I would like to meet the man though maybe a fourball with yourself and John Daly.

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Post by beninho Fri 27 Mar 2020, 1:31 pm

Hospitals are flooded in this area, borthwick park is just done the road. We are seeing people being discharged from hospital earlier then planned in order to free up spaces. Also big issues with rough sleepers.

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Post by kwinigolfer Fri 27 Mar 2020, 1:31 pm

dynamark wrote:Hi Kwini- I havnt been able to rerun pretty sure what I watched live(naf all else to do) but the point is the use of the word trying as opposed to just will be puts a negative in there that isn't relevant and is purely for impact.
Another one they have been quoting is Northwick park hospital Wembley/Harrow( next to a couple of decent golf facilites) had to declare a major incident for a day  last week and they then move as planned as  usual cases to nearby facilities.This one has been reused for days tp put the hospitals are flooded message out.
I doubt Mr Trump would need me ,Im good but maybe not that good ,I would like to meet the man though maybe a fourball with yourself and John Daly.



I'll stick with the twosome dyna, you and me, although you could ask Mr Birchenall to join us. thumbsup

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Post by kwinigolfer Fri 27 Mar 2020, 2:16 pm

The US "Religious Right" (not really religious, just bigotted racists) will be thrilled to know a leading condom (I know, doesn't bear thinking about) manufacturer has been forced to close due to corona; they turn out about 20% of the world's supply apparently.

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Post by McLaren Fri 27 Mar 2020, 2:20 pm

Kwini

How are you feeling about things, the picture we are getting of the US situation looks bleak?
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Post by navyblueshorts Fri 27 Mar 2020, 2:23 pm

McLaren wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:That's all it is though, uninformed opinion.

Do you really think the opinion that "austerity  damaged the NHS" is uninformed? I have a sneaking suspicion that 5 minutes on a google scholar search (or whatever acedemic search engine you use) would turn up plenty of articles that could answer the question.
Not relevant and/or too general/simplistic in current context. If you want to overly simplify things to justify a political bias, go ahead.
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Post by navyblueshorts Fri 27 Mar 2020, 2:25 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:The US "Religious Right" (not really religious, just bigotted racists) will be thrilled to know a leading condom (I know, doesn't bear thinking about) manufacturer has been forced to close due to corona; they turn out about 20% of the world's supply apparently.
Maybe they can re-purpose and make other forms of PPE?
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Post by beninho Fri 27 Mar 2020, 2:25 pm

Been reading about New Orleans, and how only a month ago they had Mardi gras now it's pretty rife. Just seems bonkers looking back.

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Post by Shotrock Fri 27 Mar 2020, 2:31 pm

One MAJOR difference here is that the US Health System is a for-profit industry and money is made on treatment, not on prevention. Couple that with a CEO that not long ago called this a democratic media hoax and lots of areas of VERY unprepared.

That said, the area I am in (suburban Philadelphia) is "stay at home" and the vast majority are doing as asked. I'm hearing the apex my mid-late April. I rarely wish time away, but I do right now!

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Post by McLaren Fri 27 Mar 2020, 2:33 pm

Navy

Not sure I get what you are saying. Do you think reduced spending as a percentage of GDP on our healthcare system vs other western European countries is just my bias or did it really happen under austerity?

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Post by McLaren Fri 27 Mar 2020, 2:34 pm

Shotrock wrote: I rarely wish time away, but I do right now!

Yes, I think this is a feeling pretty much everyone can empathise with at the moment.
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Post by Soul Requiem Fri 27 Mar 2020, 2:35 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
McLaren wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:That's all it is though, uninformed opinion.

Do you really think the opinion that "austerity  damaged the NHS" is uninformed? I have a sneaking suspicion that 5 minutes on a google scholar search (or whatever acedemic search engine you use) would turn up plenty of articles that could answer the question.
Not relevant and/or too general/simplistic in current context. If you want to overly simplify things to justify a political bias, go ahead.

What is it with people thinking that throwing money at a problem is the solution?

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Post by beninho Fri 27 Mar 2020, 2:39 pm

If the problem is years and years of cuts to budgets throwing money at it will generally be more helpful.

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Post by kwinigolfer Fri 27 Mar 2020, 2:39 pm

McLaren wrote:Kwini

How are you feeling about things, the picture we are getting of the US situation looks bleak?


Very uncertain Mac.
Mrs kwini works in the local Medical Centre, biggest hospital in the US for 100 miles around, but they've cleared the decks for an influx of patients that has yet to materialise, eerily quiet. On the other hand, there's a "health & rehab" nursing centre 600 yards away from my keyboard which has been the local petri dish for contamination, six deaths at last count already.
My daughter is a teacher up by the Quebec border and their school year has closed 3 months early.
And my lad lives in Brooklyn yet he and his lady feel quite safe staying down there.
Lots of self-isolation going on, quite well observed locally I would say.


With regard to ben's comment about Mardi Gras, it sounds like Atalanta vs Valencia @ San Siro except a fortnight later - remember, that was when the White House was calling the whole thing a "hoax".
Fortunately, they're also saying we'll be open for business by Easter . . . . . . . . .

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Post by Soul Requiem Fri 27 Mar 2020, 2:51 pm

beninho wrote:If the problem is years and years of cuts to budgets throwing money at it will generally be more helpful.

That is to assume that budget cuts are the issue as opposed to mismanagement. Throwing money is only helpful if done in the right way.

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Post by kwinigolfer Fri 27 Mar 2020, 2:54 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:
beninho wrote:If the problem is years and years of cuts to budgets throwing money at it will generally be more helpful.

That is to assume that budget cuts are the issue as opposed to mismanagement. Throwing money is only helpful if done in the right way.


R Soul,
Are you therefore saying that the governments of the past ten years would have felt incapable of investing money "in the right way"? Makes sense to me . . . . .

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Post by beninho Fri 27 Mar 2020, 3:20 pm

If cuts are made year on year, you lose the opportunity to blame management.

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Post by JAS Fri 27 Mar 2020, 4:41 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
McLaren wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:That's all it is though, uninformed opinion.

Do you really think the opinion that "austerity  damaged the NHS" is uninformed? I have a sneaking suspicion that 5 minutes on a google scholar search (or whatever acedemic search engine you use) would turn up plenty of articles that could answer the question.
Not relevant and/or too general/simplistic in current context. If you want to overly simplify things to justify a political bias, go ahead.

What is it with people thinking that throwing money at a problem is the solution?

Hang on a minute...I don’t think anybody is saying throwing money is the solution. We’re not well enough informed to properly define a future solution. What is patently obvious though is why we need a solution (whatever it may be) in the first place is because starvation of cash flow on (needless) ideological grounds caused the system to be weakened/holed below the waterline. Now a real crisis has come along and we’re discovering (well it’s dawning on many that have had their heads in the sand) that we’re holed below the waterline and now totally dependent on heroic efforts. Britain being Britain, were not short of heroes but Christ did we really want to be starting the fight from our knees? Many are starting the fight from a MUCH better position e.g. Denmark? Sweden? Norway?

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Post by Soul Requiem Fri 27 Mar 2020, 4:49 pm

JAS wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
McLaren wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:That's all it is though, uninformed opinion.

Do you really think the opinion that "austerity  damaged the NHS" is uninformed? I have a sneaking suspicion that 5 minutes on a google scholar search (or whatever acedemic search engine you use) would turn up plenty of articles that could answer the question.
Not relevant and/or too general/simplistic in current context. If you want to overly simplify things to justify a political bias, go ahead.

What is it with people thinking that throwing money at a problem is the solution?

Hang on a minute...I don’t think anybody is saying throwing money is the solution. We’re not well enough informed to properly define a future solution. What is patently obvious though is why we need a solution (whatever it may be) in the first place is because starvation of cash flow on (needless) ideological grounds caused the system to be weakened/holed below the waterline. Now a real crisis has come along and we’re discovering (well it’s dawning on many that have had their heads in the sand) that we’re holed below the waterline and now totally dependent on heroic efforts. Britain being Britain, were not short of heroes but Christ did we really want to be starting the fight from our knees? Many are starting the fight from a MUCH better position e.g. Denmark? Sweden? Norway?

Lower populations and less overseas through flow help massively there.

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Post by dynamark Fri 27 Mar 2020, 6:02 pm

Kwin I don't know if you were aware Alan Birch had heart attack year or so ago got lucky with Nurse in the building where he was at the time Im not sure hes ever played our game but for sure a splendid individual some great stories many involving Frank Worthingtons exploits .-you can imagine.
BBC have just done it again Clive Myrie saying that now these ministers have been 'incapacitated'.
We have to deal with what we have in front cannot run our services on what may happen once every 20 years .have you ever seen a road accident with 6 police cars and think what do they do the rest of the time .there is an ambulance station close to me and yesterday must have been 20 vehicles parked up so Im thinking yes we have the resource if we need it.

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Post by kwinigolfer Fri 27 Mar 2020, 6:07 pm

dyna,
Yup, I was aware of Birch's heart attack, wasn't it during your Premier Champ year? Quite a team that AB & FW played on.

At least the Beeb didn't say the ministers had been decapitated . . . . . . . . (wish some of ours had been).

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Post by JAS Fri 27 Mar 2020, 6:32 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:
JAS wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
McLaren wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:That's all it is though, uninformed opinion.

Do you really think the opinion that "austerity  damaged the NHS" is uninformed? I have a sneaking suspicion that 5 minutes on a google scholar search (or whatever acedemic search engine you use) would turn up plenty of articles that could answer the question.
Not relevant and/or too general/simplistic in current context. If you want to overly simplify things to justify a political bias, go ahead.

What is it with people thinking that throwing money at a problem is the solution?

Hang on a minute...I don’t think anybody is saying throwing money is the solution. We’re not well enough informed to properly define a future solution. What is patently obvious though is why we need a solution (whatever it may be) in the first place is because starvation of cash flow on (needless) ideological grounds caused the system to be weakened/holed below the waterline. Now a real crisis has come along and we’re discovering (well it’s dawning on many that have had their heads in the sand) that we’re holed below the waterline and now totally dependent on heroic efforts. Britain being Britain, were not short of heroes but Christ did we really want to be starting the fight from our knees? Many are starting the fight from a MUCH better position e.g. Denmark? Sweden? Norway?

Lower populations and less overseas through flow help massively there.
Lower pops...ok, less overseas throughflow, well obviously if the populations are lower, however there is just a whiff of moving goalposts in your response. The simple fact is that ALL of those countries have for some time placed a much higher priority on health and social provision than we have. Anecdotal obviously but I worked in Sweden 3 years ago and saw their healthcare provision close up.

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Post by beninho Fri 27 Mar 2020, 6:51 pm

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/27/advice-on-protective-gear-for-nhs-staff-was-rejected-owing-to-cost#click=https://t.co/mO0YDo5Swk

But it's not about the money saving...

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Post by Soul Requiem Fri 27 Mar 2020, 6:53 pm

beninho wrote:https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/27/advice-on-protective-gear-for-nhs-staff-was-rejected-owing-to-cost#click=https://t.co/mO0YDo5Swk

But it's not about the money saving...

I'm sure they foresaw this happening back in 2017.

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Post by beninho Fri 27 Mar 2020, 7:02 pm

What the people who advised what should be stockpiled in case if a pandemic? Or the government who said it would cost to much money and didn't want to spend on the extra protective clothing?

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Post by I'm never wrong Fri 27 Mar 2020, 8:33 pm

This might be old news and obvious, but do people know that they can "pause" Sky Sports? All you are doing is pausing the payments as you still receive the channels (with repeats on).

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