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Hoskins Sotutu eligible for England

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Post by Rugby Fan on Thu 02 Jul 2020, 1:34 pm

England coach Eddie Jones is reportedly keen on swooping in on Hoskins Sotutu, one of Super Rugby Aotearoa's breakout stars, after the Blues No 8 revealed he qualifies to play for England via his mother.

Sotutu – who also qualifies for Fiji through his father, former Fiji and Blues player Waisake Sotutu – has been groomed as a future All Blacks star after a series of dominant performances in the Blues' unbeaten start to the season.

New Fiji coach Vern Cotter is reportedly hopeful of luring Sotutu but now England have come knocking as well, according to The Telegraph.

Born and raised in New Zealand, the 21-year-old Sotutu admits he will probably have to make a decision about his future soon.

"Whatever is next will come," Sotutu told the Herald last week. "I've got my dad's Fijian heritage and that Kiwi side and my mum is English as well so I can qualify for an English passport.

"When the decision comes it will come easy but for the moment I'm just focusing on the Blues.

"I'm still learning. I'm taking this as my debut season and trying to find my feet and keep working on my craft."

To qualify for England, Sotutu would have to move to the Premiership, where there are several clubs interested in his services, reports The Telegraph.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=12344853

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 02 Jul 2020, 1:44 pm

Saw him playing the other week and the commentators were waxing lyrical over him. Good time to think of England given vunipolas ongoing injury jinx and no body as yet cementing their place at either 8 or 6. I'd imagine it's just ensuring that new Zealand give him a go asap though.

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Post by Old Man on Thu 02 Jul 2020, 3:59 pm

And the vultures are circling.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 02 Jul 2020, 4:15 pm

Vultures being teams that he qualifies for?

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Post by Old Man on Thu 02 Jul 2020, 4:20 pm

Yes. He grew up in NZ and born in NZ.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 02 Jul 2020, 4:28 pm

Get him capped then. It's only going to be the fault of new Zealand if they dont tie him down. England need to get better at that aspect and the dropping of the saxons out of sight ain't helping.

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Post by LondonTiger on Fri 03 Jul 2020, 9:05 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Saw him playing the other week and the commentators were waxing lyrical over him. Good time to think of England given vunipolas ongoing injury jinx and no body as yet cementing their place at either 8 or 6. I'd imagine it's just ensuring that new Zealand give him a go asap though.

Looks like the player and his agent are publicising this to secure the best contract possible - probably at home but if NZRFU do not pay him then he will be off.

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Post by LordDowlais on Sun 05 Jul 2020, 11:28 am

Why England, or the fans want a player who is trying to advertise himself to the highest bidder is beyond me.

I would not be comfortable if it was Wales, not one jot. This player has never been to the UK by the looks of it, and he is using England as an option. He is not English, nor is he Fijian, he is a born and bred New Zealander. He should be aspiring to play for the All Blacks, if he is not good enough for the All Blacks, then why is he all of a sudden good enough for England ?

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sun 05 Jul 2020, 1:48 pm

Different teams and different coaches want different things from players. Like I said above he seems highly rated but I've only seen him once. I'm fine for a guy to come here if he wants a crack at playing for us but it's more likely he wants to assess his options. One of my best mates co sides himself welsh and hes born and bred leeds.
Some of the dual qualified welsh players have done well for you after all.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sun 05 Jul 2020, 3:24 pm

If he did come here it does have a bit of the Nathan Hughes about it. Good player he is though. I think at least one of the No.8’s in Aotearoa has to come north, regardless of caps. I expect they will at some point for the money.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sun 05 Jul 2020, 4:31 pm

Think he was playing blindside as well when I watched him. There is a bit of a chance for people to impress but theres a helluva lot of talent in the back row for england now. All mainly in the early 20s.

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Post by BamBam on Sun 05 Jul 2020, 4:38 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Why England, or the fans want a player who is trying to advertise himself to the highest bidder is beyond me.

I would not be comfortable if it was Wales, not one jot. This player has never been to the UK  by the looks of it, and he is using England as an option. He is not English, nor is he Fijian, he is a born and bred New Zealander. He should be aspiring to play for the All Blacks, if he is not good enough for the All Blacks, then why is he all of a sudden good enough for England ?

His mum is English, that's a much stronger link than "Nan once went to Wales for a day trip", which seems to have less complaints

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Post by LeinsterFan4life on Sun 05 Jul 2020, 8:07 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Why England, or the fans want a player who is trying to advertise himself to the highest bidder is beyond me.

I would not be comfortable if it was Wales, not one jot. This player has never been to the UK  by the looks of it, and he is using England as an option. He is not English, nor is he Fijian, he is a born and bred New Zealander. He should be aspiring to play for the All Blacks, if he is not good enough for the All Blacks, then why is he all of a sudden good enough for England ?
Who are you to say he isn't Fijian? Many Pacific islanders move to Aus and NZ and raise their kids to be proud of their heritage. Nonu and keven mealamu are on record as saying they had always dreamt of representing Samoa growing up, despite they fact they may have never have even stepped foot in the country.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sun 05 Jul 2020, 10:45 pm

Many English also move to NZ and raise their islander kids to be proud of their English heritage too...

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Post by Taylorman on Mon 06 Jul 2020, 12:18 am

Old Man wrote:Yes. He grew up in NZ and born in NZ.

Hi ya Biltong,
been keeping away from the rugby these days. Hows the covig treating you where you are. I hear its doing its rounds after a late start in SA. We got it and jumped on it early and practically did nothing for 4 weeks the highlight of my day was to go to the Supermarket :-) .

Weve only got 20 or so arrivals with the virus now and they need quarantining, havent had a community one for probab two months. Our PM was very good on that front, united the country pretty well, though we have a mean unemployment problem to sort, but at least without covid hanging around- created a lot of paranoia when around people. So was good to see the big crowds again. They flocked to Eden park for the first Blues match purely because no sport- at all, anywhere, and no going out meant everyone just had to get a piece of normality, so Eden park got packed out. I'd like to say it was due to the Blues resurgence but the feeling at the time was...gee I wish I could just get out and watch a rugby match for a change.

On Sotutu, he started showing signs last year. He's the son of Waisake Sotutu who was a punishing Blues centre/ winger of Henry's wins in 96/97 from memory. We knew some time ago hes was English eligible and these days I'm starting to think who cares who he plays for, there are more important things to get wound up for than that. Its a bit surreal that we go 17 years without anywhere near a test 10 at the Blues that we suddenly have Beaudy and carter on the squad, both kept out by Otere Black...go figure, from famine to feast in the same year. Both have partners with Businesses based in Auckland, both live there now.

Anyway, take care, hope to catch up wih how we are going to reclaim the title off those mighty, pesky Boks! :-)

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Post by WELL-PAST-IT on Mon 06 Jul 2020, 8:05 am

On the subject of dual heritage, I see Wales have another off the old Vuniploa / Faletau block (cousin), Carwyn Tuipuloto, 18 years old and already 19 st 10lb stone number 8. Son of Kati Tuipuloto the Tongan International. He has stated that Wales would be his choice over Tonga.

Can we clone some of the genes from these monsters please?

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Post by lostinwales on Mon 06 Jul 2020, 8:33 am

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:On the subject of dual heritage, I see Wales have another off the old Vuniploa / Faletau block (cousin), Carwyn Tuipuloto, 18 years old and already 19 st 10lb stone number 8. Son of Kati Tuipuloto the Tongan International. He has stated that Wales would be his choice over Tonga.

Can we clone some of the genes from these monsters please?

Doesn't always work. We had the Tuillagi production line working flat out for a number of years but it doesn't look like it has created any more internationals.

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Post by Old Man on Mon 06 Jul 2020, 9:56 am

Taylorman wrote:
Old Man wrote:Yes. He grew up in NZ and born in NZ.

Hi ya Biltong,
been keeping away from the rugby these days. Hows the covig treating you where you are. I hear its doing its rounds after a late start in SA. We got it and jumped on it early and practically did nothing for 4 weeks the highlight of my day was to go to the Supermarket :-) .

Weve only got 20 or so arrivals with the virus now and they need quarantining, havent had a community one for probab two months. Our PM was very good on that front, united the country pretty well, though we have a mean unemployment problem to sort, but at least without covid hanging around- created a lot of paranoia when around people. So was good to see the big crowds again. They flocked to Eden park for the first Blues match purely because no sport- at all, anywhere, and no going out meant everyone just had to get a piece of normality, so Eden park got packed out. I'd like to say it was due to the Blues resurgence but the feeling at the time was...gee I wish I could just get out and watch a rugby match for a change.

On Sotutu, he started showing signs last year. He's the son of Waisake Sotutu who was a punishing Blues centre/ winger of Henry's wins in 96/97 from memory. We knew some time ago hes was English eligible and these days I'm starting to think who cares who he plays for, there are more important things to get wound up for than that. Its a bit surreal that we go 17 years without anywhere near a test 10 at the Blues that we suddenly have Beaudy and carter on the squad, both kept out by Otere Black...go figure, from famine to feast in the same year. Both have partners with Businesses based in Auckland, both live there now.

Anyway, take care, hope to catch up wih how we are going to reclaim the title off those mighty, pesky Boks! :-)

Hi T’man, must be nice to have some live sport to follow, been mostly reminiscing about “that” final last year, amazing how the press, pundits, social media (mostly European) wrote the Boks off before that final.

Confidence were sky high in the north. Not much credit especially from Irish pundits even after the final, excuses about England playing their final against NZ, Boks use PED’s, play boring rugby, are predictable etc etc.

Well, I suppose any old excuse and continuing the same perceptions is what caught the English out. Besides if you play your final in the semi final, that is naive, premature thinking and most hilariously for me was the fact that many thought the English physicality would be too much for the Springboks.

You can run the Boks ragged if they allow you front foot ball and you possess the necessary speed and skills, otherwise it doesn’t work, but to outmuscle the “boring” Boks, that is mostly pie in the sky, not impossible, but improbable.

As for the Covid19 situation, it isn’t going too well over here, the infection rate is spiralling, the population for the most part doesn’t take it serious enough and it seems rugby will take some time before we see any live action.

What is concerning is the fact that we are going to be behind the eight ball compared to OZ and NZ. Rusty, little game time and in need of a few miracles.

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Post by BamBam on Mon 06 Jul 2020, 11:18 am

Sotutu extends his contract with the Blues, to the surprise of precisely no one

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 06 Jul 2020, 11:45 am

I'm truly shocked. What will the pearl clutchers do now.

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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 06 Jul 2020, 11:59 am

BamBam wrote:Sotutu extends his contract with the Blues, to the surprise of precisely no one

His agent has done his job it seems.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Tue 07 Jul 2020, 6:59 pm

No thanks. We have plenty of our own to work with

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 11:38 am

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/very-talented-chopsy-kid-plucked-18558258

Shocking. The vultures have circled and are picking bits of the RFU.

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Post by BamBam on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 11:41 am

Await blustering outrage from the valleys. Schoolboys getting poached bla bla bla bla bla bla bla

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Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 12:00 pm

Is this not why the Exiles programme was set up?

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Post by Gooseberry on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 12:05 pm

Dont worry though Gatland can still pick him for the Lions

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Post by BamBam on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 12:37 pm

When Wales do it it's the "Exiles" programme, when England does it it's "vultures poaching"

Kind of how Brits abroad are ex pats while others are immigrants Doh

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Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 12:41 pm

Just wondering if anyone has said that England are vultures who partake in poaching? I know I wouldn't say it with us poaching our fair share of kiwi's and Wenglish.

When I did my degree, I was under the impression expatriate and immigrate had different meanings?

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 1:33 pm

Old man mentioned the poaching hence the tongue in cheek post. I've never viewed it as such and as a reminder the clubs are very much not under the rfu! The lad in the walesonline piece has stated his Welsh ness as well. I'd still like the unions or world rugby to review the compensation details of these kind of things though but that's not going to happen any time soon.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 1:43 pm

Going down the compensation path would be a little complicated - the PI's would be due a lot of that...
I get the frustration. South Africa lose a lot of players overseas despite being Tier 1, and a lot of them have gone on to represent other nations. They're affordable and turn out to be exceptional players who rarely break, I'd fill half Dragons' forward pack with South Africans if it were possible. The residency and grandparent rulings just divide opinion I guess, I'm okay with it for now as Wales are mostly benefiting.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 1:47 pm

Theres already compensation here based on training and youth setups but for me it needs extending. But hey ho you play to the rules and everything's fine in my book. It's up to nations to tie their players down sufficiently especially if they already qualify through birth to another nation.
Dont think the PI s would benefit that much cant think of many who it would apply to. Nathan Hughes would have got them some money. A few in France.

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Post by ebop on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 4:12 pm

It’s difficult to reconcile the concept that a ‘Pacific Islander’ can represent a team in the northern hemisphere given none of those countries openly accept Pacific Island people into their countries. Basically, northern hemisphere countries ‘buy’ people to play rugby on their behalf.
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 4:23 pm

And yet we do. Funny.

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Post by ebop on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 4:26 pm

Admitting weakness, lol
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 4:36 pm

I dont understand. Weakness?

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Post by ebop on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 4:42 pm

You don’t understand, lol
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 4:44 pm

Nope. In the uk we have migration from all over the world. The guy this thread focuses on has an english mum. Dont get why you think he wouldn't be allowed here?

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Post by ebop on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 4:45 pm

Born in NZ

Learnt rugby in NZ

Bullsh*t rules say he’s eligible for England
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Post by Soul Requiem on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 4:48 pm

ebop wrote:Born in NZ

Learnt rugby in NZ

Bullsh*t rules say he’s eligible for England

Rules that state he's eligible for a full British passport through a parent, yup totally bull****.

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Post by ebop on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 4:51 pm

‘Rules’

Hahah

Please have yourself some self respect
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 4:58 pm

Bizarre.

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Post by ebop on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 5:01 pm

You lose

Poor effort 7.5
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 5:08 pm

You ok?

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Post by ebop on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 5:09 pm

Yup, all good in NZ thanks, yourself?
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 5:12 pm

Yeah. You're acting quite strangely and jumping around conversations not making much sense. You sure you're ok.

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Post by ebop on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 5:25 pm

Glad you’re ok 7.5, bit rough in the UK right now ain’t it? To be fair, the UK teams are riddled with SH players and coaches and you have to wonder if this COVID thing has put a bit of a dampener on the recruitment side of things. You’d have to hope so wouldn’t you 7.5?
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 6:15 pm

I find that language quite distasteful tbh. You're talking about people. Riddled and hoping they dont come here sounds like something a racist would utter.

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Post by Sharkey06 on Sun 19 Jul 2020, 1:07 am

Sorry to bring this down to my level, but - someone is qualified to play for England, is picked for England and plays for England.  What's the scandal?  Is there any country who has not picked players born outside their country who is qualified to play for them?

Certainly not England, Scotland, Ireland, Wales, France, Australia, New Zealand, Italy, etc????

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Post by Old Man on Mon 20 Jul 2020, 1:38 pm

Sharkey06 wrote:Sorry to bring this down to my level, but - someone is qualified to play for England, is picked for England and plays for England.  What's the scandal?  Is there any country who has not picked players born outside their country who is qualified to play for them?

Certainly not England, Scotland, Ireland, Wales, France, Australia, New Zealand, Italy, etc????

Well, you do have different scenarios of qualification, don’t you?

Those that are foreign born but grow up in your rugby system
Those who are recruited as a project player
Those contracted by a club and after three years qualify
Those who qualify due to parental or grandparent lineage and never been there.
You decide which you deem opportunist poaching and which are not

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Post by BigGee on Mon 20 Jul 2020, 4:42 pm

I have deleted a couple of posts that were not really adding anything to the conversation, please keep it to the rugby

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