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Players Eligible for Scotland

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Post by Highland Shaun Sat 01 Aug 2020, 11:01 pm

First topic message reminder :

Hi guys, I asked this on Rugby Rebels but didn't get much response lol so I'm thinking I'll have more luck here Smile.

As it says in the title, who is eligible for Scotland through residency rules or the grandparents rule etc?

The only ones I know of so far are:

Duhan van der Merwe (likely to make his debut in October)
Olly Kebble
Jaco Van der Walt
Ben Vellacott
Sean Stevenson
Will Jordan (though highly unlikely)

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Post by TJ Fri 11 Dec 2020, 9:54 am

For me ( as a man of english birth living in Scotland) the key thing is " have they made scotland their home" the problem with this is you only really know after their careers are over. So Sean Lineen is fine, he has stayed on and been an asset to the country. The Leslie brothers fecked of back to NZ withing minutes of the end of their playing days. That I have no time for.

How you make a system that allows for this I do not know

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Post by mikey_dragon Fri 11 Dec 2020, 10:38 am

Old Man wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Old Man wrote:I think it is impossible to stop the migration of players, however I do have an issue when we lose dozens of kids right out of school, and they are obviously some of our most promising players.

We cannot compete with European salaries and it was reported this week that David Meihuizen has recieved a “huge” offer from Scotland, he is only 23 and has big potential 2.08 meters tall weighing 123 kg, just anotherloss to SA rugby, you have to wonder at what point does it start affecting the average rugby supporter when his team looks more like a Barbarian side than a native side?

Or does winning at all cost compensate for national pride?
How do you expect players to stay in SA when they might not get a pro contract due to the colour of their skin? Only recently all the head coaches of the SA super rugby sides were summoned to explain why there weren't enough black players starting in the teams. If I was playing rugby in SA, I'd be looking to get out asap.

I don’t, 90% of players interviewed said the will move to overseas clubs, European clubs know this and therefor will exploit it. I fully understand that.

But the wolves that prowl our school competitions, lurking behind shadows, waiting to pounce on impressionable youngsters with a contract and ink pen promising them whatever they can is opportunism and exploitation that showcases unashamed desperation.

A bit of an internal issue then? I can't imagine what it's like to be told XX can't play for their country due to their skin colour. We've seen SA rugby suffer when they meddle with it. When they don't then they do great things (like win World Cups). I do hope you are able to hold onto more players in the near future though, regardless of colour, as I've seen a lot of good players of all races down there in SA.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 11 Dec 2020, 10:50 am

TJ wrote:For me ( as a man of english birth living in Scotland) the key thing is " have they made scotland their home" the problem with this is you only really know after their careers are over. So Sean Lineen is fine, he has stayed on and been an asset to the country. The Leslie brothers fecked of back to NZ withing minutes of the end of their playing days. That I have no time for.

How you make a system that allows for this I do not know

And despite reservations fans can have over individuals it's a good thing that Scotland have that scouting system to know their full options. Agree completely on individuals being problematic etc and one rule not really covering every instance. Doesnt necessarily fot to residency qualifications either. Theres been more england guys qualifying on residency providing more to the game and communities recently than those qualifying through parents or place of birth.

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Post by lostinwales Fri 11 Dec 2020, 11:08 am

I see Mo Farah was mentioned above. I know he's now pretty much a US resident but one of the things that struck me when he was ever interviewed is that he is pure London. Might have been born in Somalia but there is no doubt about where he comes from.

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Fri 11 Dec 2020, 2:54 pm

Old Man wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Old Man wrote:I think it is impossible to stop the migration of players, however I do have an issue when we lose dozens of kids right out of school, and they are obviously some of our most promising players.

We cannot compete with European salaries and it was reported this week that David Meihuizen has recieved a “huge” offer from Scotland, he is only 23 and has big potential 2.08 meters tall weighing 123 kg, just anotherloss to SA rugby, you have to wonder at what point does it start affecting the average rugby supporter when his team looks more like a Barbarian side than a native side?

Or does winning at all cost compensate for national pride?
How do you expect players to stay in SA when they might not get a pro contract due to the colour of their skin? Only recently all the head coaches of the SA super rugby sides were summoned to explain why there weren't enough black players starting in the teams. If I was playing rugby in SA, I'd be looking to get out asap.

I don’t, 90% of players interviewed said the will move to overseas clubs, European clubs know this and therefor will exploit it. I fully understand that.

But the wolves that prowl our school competitions, lurking behind shadows, waiting to pounce on impressionable youngsters with a contract and ink pen promising them whatever they can is opportunism and exploitation that showcases unashamed desperation.
I still don't get what your issue is? Again those youngsters might not get a pro contract due to the colour of their skin. If they want to play rugby full time and there is a contract there, then they would be crazy not to take it. You need to be angry at the SARU not European clubs.

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Post by profitius Fri 11 Dec 2020, 3:04 pm

lostinwales wrote:I see Mo Farah was mentioned above. I know he's now pretty much a US resident but one of the things that struck me when he was ever interviewed is that he is pure London. Might have been born in Somalia but there is no doubt about where he comes from.


So a Somalian loves London so much he decided to live in the US. There's no money to be made in loving Somalia.
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Post by Old Man Fri 11 Dec 2020, 3:08 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Old Man wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Old Man wrote:I think it is impossible to stop the migration of players, however I do have an issue when we lose dozens of kids right out of school, and they are obviously some of our most promising players.

We cannot compete with European salaries and it was reported this week that David Meihuizen has recieved a “huge” offer from Scotland, he is only 23 and has big potential 2.08 meters tall weighing 123 kg, just anotherloss to SA rugby, you have to wonder at what point does it start affecting the average rugby supporter when his team looks more like a Barbarian side than a native side?

Or does winning at all cost compensate for national pride?
How do you expect players to stay in SA when they might not get a pro contract due to the colour of their skin? Only recently all the head coaches of the SA super rugby sides were summoned to explain why there weren't enough black players starting in the teams. If I was playing rugby in SA, I'd be looking to get out asap.

I don’t, 90% of players interviewed said the will move to overseas clubs, European clubs know this and therefor will exploit it. I fully understand that.

But the wolves that prowl our school competitions, lurking behind shadows, waiting to pounce on impressionable youngsters with a contract and ink pen promising them whatever they can is opportunism and exploitation that showcases unashamed desperation.
I still don't get what your issue is? Again those youngsters might not get a pro contract due to the colour of their skin. If they want to play rugby full time and there is a contract there, then they would be crazy not to take it. You need to be angry at the SARU not European clubs.

The issue is the manner in which it is done, like bloody vultures they prey on our kids, stop using the justification of them not being able to get a contract because of the colour of their skin.

The kids being poached is our best kids, not the journeymen, you think French scouts come here to poach the average players? No Sir, they approach the best kids.

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Post by Soul Requiem Fri 11 Dec 2020, 3:09 pm

Treat them better or lose out, simple.

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Post by tigertattie Fri 11 Dec 2020, 3:30 pm

Two wrongs dont make a right

You shouldnt stop young SA players from getting big money offers from clubs to play for them, that would be a scandal.

Likewise players going to clubs for big money shouldnt exclude them from playing for thier country should they wish.

The issue is though that clubs are given money by unions for playing guys who qualify for the country. Therefore the club lose money if that player opts to play for his home nation. Or worse where the clubs are financed by the union, the boys dont get the contract unless they commit to playing for their new nation!

In the future I can see international rugby being like athletics where people move about and represent whoever they want to, whenever they want to.
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Post by Hazel Sapling Fri 11 Dec 2020, 3:34 pm

Old Man wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Old Man wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Old Man wrote:I think it is impossible to stop the migration of players, however I do have an issue when we lose dozens of kids right out of school, and they are obviously some of our most promising players.

We cannot compete with European salaries and it was reported this week that David Meihuizen has recieved a “huge” offer from Scotland, he is only 23 and has big potential 2.08 meters tall weighing 123 kg, just anotherloss to SA rugby, you have to wonder at what point does it start affecting the average rugby supporter when his team looks more like a Barbarian side than a native side?

Or does winning at all cost compensate for national pride?
How do you expect players to stay in SA when they might not get a pro contract due to the colour of their skin? Only recently all the head coaches of the SA super rugby sides were summoned to explain why there weren't enough black players starting in the teams. If I was playing rugby in SA, I'd be looking to get out asap.

I don’t, 90% of players interviewed said the will move to overseas clubs, European clubs know this and therefor will exploit it. I fully understand that.

But the wolves that prowl our school competitions, lurking behind shadows, waiting to pounce on impressionable youngsters with a contract and ink pen promising them whatever they can is opportunism and exploitation that showcases unashamed desperation.
I still don't get what your issue is? Again those youngsters might not get a pro contract due to the colour of their skin. If they want to play rugby full time and there is a contract there, then they would be crazy not to take it. You need to be angry at the SARU not European clubs.

The issue is the manner in which it is done, like bloody vultures they prey on our kids, stop using the justification of them not being able to get a contract because of the colour of their skin.

The kids being poached is our best kids, not the journeymen, you think French scouts come here to poach the average players? No Sir, they approach the best kids.

I can understand South African impatience as there are a number of players now in Northern Hemisphere teams choosing to represent other nations. Scotland are probably the most blatant as we only have two sides with limited spots so if we bring in someone, we have to justify it.

As for the "kids" Scotland have taken from South Africa who are projects in the last 10 seasons: WP Nel was 26 and will have spent most of a decade in Edinburgh, Kebble and Schoeman were both in their mid-20s, DVDM was 21/22 and playing for Montpellier, Strauss was 25/26, Dell was 22 playing Currie Cup, JVDW was 23 in Super Rugby and Venter who is 18. CDP was 22 when signed after Southern Kings were relegated from Super Rugby. R De Klerk was 25 and would have counted if he had not given out his number inappropriately. Was Baggott South African? From the big name ones, five were younger than 24 when signed and one of those was from a French club.

Big T was capped by Australia for 1 minute after being offered a project player package and I imagine if he had his time again he might have stuck to Glasgow/Scotland. S Johnson was 22 and on the fringes of Super Rugby when we signed him. I don't think Tim Visser was signed as a project, more lets see if he is any good but his early career would pre-date me.

Will need to get an idea on who else we took but we have offered contracts to maybe 10 - 15 players over 10 years to be project players (or one - two signings a year).

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Fri 11 Dec 2020, 3:38 pm

Old Man wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Old Man wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Old Man wrote:I think it is impossible to stop the migration of players, however I do have an issue when we lose dozens of kids right out of school, and they are obviously some of our most promising players.

We cannot compete with European salaries and it was reported this week that David Meihuizen has recieved a “huge” offer from Scotland, he is only 23 and has big potential 2.08 meters tall weighing 123 kg, just anotherloss to SA rugby, you have to wonder at what point does it start affecting the average rugby supporter when his team looks more like a Barbarian side than a native side?

Or does winning at all cost compensate for national pride?
How do you expect players to stay in SA when they might not get a pro contract due to the colour of their skin? Only recently all the head coaches of the SA super rugby sides were summoned to explain why there weren't enough black players starting in the teams. If I was playing rugby in SA, I'd be looking to get out asap.

I don’t, 90% of players interviewed said the will move to overseas clubs, European clubs know this and therefor will exploit it. I fully understand that.

But the wolves that prowl our school competitions, lurking behind shadows, waiting to pounce on impressionable youngsters with a contract and ink pen promising them whatever they can is opportunism and exploitation that showcases unashamed desperation.
I still don't get what your issue is? Again those youngsters might not get a pro contract due to the colour of their skin. If they want to play rugby full time and there is a contract there, then they would be crazy not to take it. You need to be angry at the SARU not European clubs.

The issue is the manner in which it is done, like bloody vultures they prey on our kids, stop using the justification of them not being able to get a contract because of the colour of their skin.

The kids being poached is our best kids, not the journeymen, you think French scouts come here to poach the average players? No Sir, they approach the best kids.
What way should they do it? Of course they poach the best players, that is literally the whole point. Stop using the colour of their skin as an excuse? Are you joking me? If you cant see the severity of this then I cant help you. Seriously man wake up.

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Post by Old Man Fri 11 Dec 2020, 3:43 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Old Man wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Old Man wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Old Man wrote:I think it is impossible to stop the migration of players, however I do have an issue when we lose dozens of kids right out of school, and they are obviously some of our most promising players.

We cannot compete with European salaries and it was reported this week that David Meihuizen has recieved a “huge” offer from Scotland, he is only 23 and has big potential 2.08 meters tall weighing 123 kg, just anotherloss to SA rugby, you have to wonder at what point does it start affecting the average rugby supporter when his team looks more like a Barbarian side than a native side?

Or does winning at all cost compensate for national pride?
How do you expect players to stay in SA when they might not get a pro contract due to the colour of their skin? Only recently all the head coaches of the SA super rugby sides were summoned to explain why there weren't enough black players starting in the teams. If I was playing rugby in SA, I'd be looking to get out asap.

I don’t, 90% of players interviewed said the will move to overseas clubs, European clubs know this and therefor will exploit it. I fully understand that.

But the wolves that prowl our school competitions, lurking behind shadows, waiting to pounce on impressionable youngsters with a contract and ink pen promising them whatever they can is opportunism and exploitation that showcases unashamed desperation.
I still don't get what your issue is? Again those youngsters might not get a pro contract due to the colour of their skin. If they want to play rugby full time and there is a contract there, then they would be crazy not to take it. You need to be angry at the SARU not European clubs.

The issue is the manner in which it is done, like bloody vultures they prey on our kids, stop using the justification of them not being able to get a contract because of the colour of their skin.

The kids being poached is our best kids, not the journeymen, you think French scouts come here to poach the average players? No Sir, they approach the best kids.
What way should they do it? Of course they poach the best players, that is literally the whole point. Stop using the colour of their skin as an excuse? Are you joking me? If you cant see the severity of this then I cant help you. Seriously man wake up.

Wake up? Show some respect man, you justify yourself by showing racist attitude. If you don’t understand what is going on in SA don’t judge, just accept the fact that European rugby are vultures and have no qualms about it. You don’t give a shyte, so don’t pretend to care about our players.

It is all about buying success.

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Fri 11 Dec 2020, 4:20 pm

Old Man wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Old Man wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Old Man wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Old Man wrote:I think it is impossible to stop the migration of players, however I do have an issue when we lose dozens of kids right out of school, and they are obviously some of our most promising players.

We cannot compete with European salaries and it was reported this week that David Meihuizen has recieved a “huge” offer from Scotland, he is only 23 and has big potential 2.08 meters tall weighing 123 kg, just anotherloss to SA rugby, you have to wonder at what point does it start affecting the average rugby supporter when his team looks more like a Barbarian side than a native side?

Or does winning at all cost compensate for national pride?
How do you expect players to stay in SA when they might not get a pro contract due to the colour of their skin? Only recently all the head coaches of the SA super rugby sides were summoned to explain why there weren't enough black players starting in the teams. If I was playing rugby in SA, I'd be looking to get out asap.

I don’t, 90% of players interviewed said the will move to overseas clubs, European clubs know this and therefor will exploit it. I fully understand that.

But the wolves that prowl our school competitions, lurking behind shadows, waiting to pounce on impressionable youngsters with a contract and ink pen promising them whatever they can is opportunism and exploitation that showcases unashamed desperation.
I still don't get what your issue is? Again those youngsters might not get a pro contract due to the colour of their skin. If they want to play rugby full time and there is a contract there, then they would be crazy not to take it. You need to be angry at the SARU not European clubs.

The issue is the manner in which it is done, like bloody vultures they prey on our kids, stop using the justification of them not being able to get a contract because of the colour of their skin.

The kids being poached is our best kids, not the journeymen, you think French scouts come here to poach the average players? No Sir, they approach the best kids.
What way should they do it? Of course they poach the best players, that is literally the whole point. Stop using the colour of their skin as an excuse? Are you joking me? If you cant see the severity of this then I cant help you. Seriously man wake up.

Wake up? Show some respect man, you justify yourself by showing racist attitude. If you don’t understand what is going on in SA don’t judge, just accept the fact that European rugby are vultures and have no qualms about it. You don’t give a shyte, so don’t pretend to care about our players.

It is all about buying success.
Its considered racist now if you believe the best players should be picked regardless of their race? Btw you think the exodus of SA players is bad now? Just wait until Japan launches their 3 tier pro league and the MLR kicks off properly.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 11 Dec 2020, 5:39 pm

Dry your eyes Biltong. Only you would complain on a 23 year old moving to scotland while dismissing luring Mtawarira as a school kid. Sorry to bang on but the Scottish union has their house in order on identifying and capping. SA, England and others dont.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 11 Dec 2020, 5:45 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Old Man wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Old Man wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Old Man wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Old Man wrote:I think it is impossible to stop the migration of players, however I do have an issue when we lose dozens of kids right out of school, and they are obviously some of our most promising players.

We cannot compete with European salaries and it was reported this week that David Meihuizen has recieved a “huge” offer from Scotland, he is only 23 and has big potential 2.08 meters tall weighing 123 kg, just anotherloss to SA rugby, you have to wonder at what point does it start affecting the average rugby supporter when his team looks more like a Barbarian side than a native side?

Or does winning at all cost compensate for national pride?
How do you expect players to stay in SA when they might not get a pro contract due to the colour of their skin? Only recently all the head coaches of the SA super rugby sides were summoned to explain why there weren't enough black players starting in the teams. If I was playing rugby in SA, I'd be looking to get out asap.

I don’t, 90% of players interviewed said the will move to overseas clubs, European clubs know this and therefor will exploit it. I fully understand that.

But the wolves that prowl our school competitions, lurking behind shadows, waiting to pounce on impressionable youngsters with a contract and ink pen promising them whatever they can is opportunism and exploitation that showcases unashamed desperation.
I still don't get what your issue is? Again those youngsters might not get a pro contract due to the colour of their skin. If they want to play rugby full time and there is a contract there, then they would be crazy not to take it. You need to be angry at the SARU not European clubs.

The issue is the manner in which it is done, like bloody vultures they prey on our kids, stop using the justification of them not being able to get a contract because of the colour of their skin.

The kids being poached is our best kids, not the journeymen, you think French scouts come here to poach the average players? No Sir, they approach the best kids.
What way should they do it? Of course they poach the best players, that is literally the whole point. Stop using the colour of their skin as an excuse? Are you joking me? If you cant see the severity of this then I cant help you. Seriously man wake up.

Wake up? Show some respect man, you justify yourself by showing racist attitude. If you don’t understand what is going on in SA don’t judge, just accept the fact that European rugby are vultures and have no qualms about it. You don’t give a shyte, so don’t pretend to care about our players.

It is all about buying success.
Its considered racist now if you believe the best players should be picked regardless of their race? Btw you think the exodus of SA players is bad now? Just wait until Japan launches their 3 tier pro league and the MLR kicks off properly.

Again probably not for this topic but I'm a fan overall in levelling the playing field.

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Post by mikey_dragon Fri 11 Dec 2020, 5:50 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Dry your eyes Biltong. Only you would complain on a 23 year old moving to scotland while dismissing luring Mtawarira as a school kid. Sorry to bang on but the Scottish union has their house in order on identifying and capping. SA, England and others dont.

To be fair that’s just one guy. Look at all the South Africans currently playing for other nations...

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Fri 11 Dec 2020, 5:53 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Old Man wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Old Man wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Old Man wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Old Man wrote:I think it is impossible to stop the migration of players, however I do have an issue when we lose dozens of kids right out of school, and they are obviously some of our most promising players.

We cannot compete with European salaries and it was reported this week that David Meihuizen has recieved a “huge” offer from Scotland, he is only 23 and has big potential 2.08 meters tall weighing 123 kg, just anotherloss to SA rugby, you have to wonder at what point does it start affecting the average rugby supporter when his team looks more like a Barbarian side than a native side?

Or does winning at all cost compensate for national pride?
How do you expect players to stay in SA when they might not get a pro contract due to the colour of their skin? Only recently all the head coaches of the SA super rugby sides were summoned to explain why there weren't enough black players starting in the teams. If I was playing rugby in SA, I'd be looking to get out asap.

I don’t, 90% of players interviewed said the will move to overseas clubs, European clubs know this and therefor will exploit it. I fully understand that.

But the wolves that prowl our school competitions, lurking behind shadows, waiting to pounce on impressionable youngsters with a contract and ink pen promising them whatever they can is opportunism and exploitation that showcases unashamed desperation.
I still don't get what your issue is? Again those youngsters might not get a pro contract due to the colour of their skin. If they want to play rugby full time and there is a contract there, then they would be crazy not to take it. You need to be angry at the SARU not European clubs.

The issue is the manner in which it is done, like bloody vultures they prey on our kids, stop using the justification of them not being able to get a contract because of the colour of their skin.

The kids being poached is our best kids, not the journeymen, you think French scouts come here to poach the average players? No Sir, they approach the best kids.
What way should they do it? Of course they poach the best players, that is literally the whole point. Stop using the colour of their skin as an excuse? Are you joking me? If you cant see the severity of this then I cant help you. Seriously man wake up.

Wake up? Show some respect man, you justify yourself by showing racist attitude. If you don’t understand what is going on in SA don’t judge, just accept the fact that European rugby are vultures and have no qualms about it. You don’t give a shyte, so don’t pretend to care about our players.

It is all about buying success.
Its considered racist now if you believe the best players should be picked regardless of their race? Btw you think the exodus of SA players is bad now? Just wait until Japan launches their 3 tier pro league and the MLR kicks off properly.

Again probably not for this topic but I'm a fan overall in levelling the playing field.
They don't want to level the playing field though, but anyway yes a discussion for another thread.

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Post by Old Man Fri 11 Dec 2020, 6:01 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Dry your eyes Biltong. Only you would complain on a 23 year old moving to scotland while dismissing luring Mtawarira as a school kid. Sorry to bang on but the Scottish union has their house in order on identifying and capping. SA, England and others dont.

We didn’t lure Beast. He came here because he wanted to play professional rugby. And even then, that is one player in the last 120 tests.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 11 Dec 2020, 6:28 pm

So he went to sa to further his career after being invited by and seen by sa scouts. As I said from the start given the opportunity everyone does it. It's just not many people want to move to sa.

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Post by Old Man Fri 11 Dec 2020, 7:30 pm

There are three million Zimbabweans in SA. I guess that is not many, eh?

Old Man

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 11 Dec 2020, 7:56 pm

Ok Biltong. Keep pretending.

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Post by GeordieFalcon Fri 11 Dec 2020, 9:01 pm

No.8 Tom Marshall playing well for us tonight...against a very experienced Cardiff side...needs to bulk up a bit..but still showing a lot of physicality.

Will Gary Graham get a call up. I hope not..leave him here with us smashing things for fun.

GeordieFalcon

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