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Pro 12 plus maybe Friends 20/21

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Post by Brendan Sat 19 Sep 2020, 1:51 pm

As one season finishes it seems the new one seems to start sooner each year.  Here is the breakdown of teams over the last three years. Places (based on league points) and points are order 19/20, 18/19, 17/18

Leinster (Champions and clearly the team to beat)
Place 1, 3, 2, Average 2
Points 69, 76, 70 total 215
Always have finished top of their conference and winners for the last three years
Goal - Win, anything else is failure

Munster
Place 3, 2, 4 Average 3
Points 51, 77, 69 Total 197
Yet another table where Munster fall short yet again.  Each of the last three years have been knocked out by Leinster
Goal - Top Conference (2nd in league) to finally avoid Leinster in the playoffs to make the final

Glasgow
Place 7, 1, 1 Average 3
Points 38, 81, 76 Total 195
Was this year a WC hangover or is it the start of the slide back to the chasing pack.  Losing key players is taking it's toll. No longer the best team in Scotland.
Goal - Win back dominance in Scotland

Ulster
Place 4, 4, 6 Average 4.33
Points 44, 63, 62 Total 169
Improving each year and seem like one of the teams to challange Leinster.
Goal - Get back to the final

Scarlets
Place 4, 9, 3 Average 5.33
Points 47, 52, 70 Total 169
Last year killed them but on their day a match of anyone. Best team usually in Wales.
Goal - make the final

Edinburgh
Place 2, 10, 5 Average 5.66
Total 51, 51, 68 Total 170
Like Scarlets last year killed them.  Have conquered Scotland and have one of the best coaches in the league.  Possibly the 2nd best team for next season if Cockers has cracked rotation.
Goal - make the final

Connacht
Place 6, 5, 10 Average 7
Points 40, 61, 39 Total 140
Excluding the first year under Keane have been playoff contenders each year.  But they need to push on and not just be happy fighting for a playoff sport.
Have to push for Top 4

Benetton
Place 8, 7, 7 Average 7.33
Points 36, 57, 55 Total 148
Consistency has got them middle of the table which is a good place to build from rather than just the place to stay.
Goal - time to push for Top 6

Blues
Place 9, 8, 8 Average  8.33
Points 33, 54, 54 Total 141
Again consistent in their place but have fallen down and past by their peers.  Have to be looking over their shoulders at Dragons and Zebre.
Goal - time to get above 8th.

Ospreys
Place 12, 6, 9 Average 9
Points 17, 58, 54 Total 119
Which year was the anomaly, when they finished 6th or 12th.  An old team who live on past glories. Last year 6th may have been down to the drop in form of Scarlets and Edinburgh.
Goal - stop the rot

Dragons
Place 10, 11, 12 Average 11
Points 24, 26, 20 Total 70
Slowly improving.  No longer unable to win away from home and building nicely.
Goal - has to be 9th

Zebre
Place 11, 12, 11 Average 11.33
Points 21, 19, 36 Total 76
Have alot of young players coming through.  Last year wasn't great but the other two were improvements on previous years.
Goal - Finished 10th and pick up some big wins.


Last edited by Brendan on Mon 21 Sep 2020, 12:38 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Brendan Sat 19 Sep 2020, 2:01 pm

I would break the league up into 4 groups

1. Leinster
2. Munster, Ulster, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Scarlets
3. Benetton, Connacht
4. Ospreys, Blues, Dragons, Zebre

Ospreys could be up in group 3 but have been either good or really bad. If they lose its as likely to be by 20 as 5pts and rarely seem to get big wins. Blues have so many season of Hope that turn into the same old story of poor runs. Could be good but who knows

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Post by Guest Sat 19 Sep 2020, 2:52 pm

I think Edinburgh are being treated a little generously.

They've not really done anything of note or shown pedigree. They go on good runs when other teams are missing internationals then tend to get put back in their place when the other sides are back to full strength.

I'd put them closer to Connacht than Ulster or the Scarlets.

Also, the Blues have won a European cup in the last 3 years. Below Treviso/Benneton? Seems harsh/wrong.

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Post by Brendan Sat 19 Sep 2020, 10:17 pm

rugby racing and beer wrote:I think Edinburgh are being treated a little generously.

They've not really done anything of note or shown pedigree. They go on good runs when other teams are missing internationals then tend to get put back in their place when the other sides are back to full strength.

I'd put them closer to Connacht than Ulster or the Scarlets.

Also, the Blues have won a European cup in the last 3 years. Below Treviso/Benneton? Seems harsh/wrong.

Edinburgh have been a top team for the last three years.  They have surpassed Glasgow who are still a top team.  While they did fifth in the conference two years ago it was also the year they should have got to a Champions Cup semi except for a moment of madness.  The year before they were unlucky to lose the quarters v Munster.  In the early years Cockers had no idea how to rotate, he would send out his first and win and then sent out the reserves and lost to the Kings.  The players need to learn to play knockout but they are definately a match for the top teams.

The Blues have won a European cup but has the team got weaker or stronger.  The highest they have finished in their Conference was 4th.  The season the pro12 finished they were fighting it out with Edinburgh and Connacht.  Now the two of them are ahead and maybe even Benneton have passed them.  They now are looking over their shoulder at the Dragons who would have aims of passing them too.  I'm not sure where the lift in form will come from.  Williams has retired and Anscombe is gone.  They have Navidi but how much time he will get in the league.  I just don't know where they are going to get the improvement.

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Post by Guest Sun 20 Sep 2020, 1:27 pm

Not for me, they're not quite there yet. They've done nothing really of note and have flattered to deceive once teams are at full strength.

I think you've overlooking the glass ceiling each club has and also reading too much in to a possible, not an actual: potential. The Blues have signed a lot of players in the last 12 months they're clearly not looking back at the Dragons or the Ospreys. For me, winning a European Cup means something. It shows the quality of your best side. Edinburgh's glass ceiling isn't there yet and again I struggle to see how Benneton are better than the Blues on that basis. I'd go with 'what they are like at their best' over 'potential future gains' as a metric, personally, but I suppose it's all in good fun.

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Post by mikey_dragon Sun 20 Sep 2020, 4:53 pm

Brendan wrote:Edinburgh have been a top team for the last three years.  They have surpassed Glasgow who are still a top team.

Can see why Edinburgh might be regarded as 'chokers' somewhat, but have to agree with this statement. It's been a total transformation under Cockers and for the better. Edinburgh have a good recent record against Scarlets FYI, which might explain the type of the sentiment they are being shown. Cardiff winning a euro cup over 3 years ago is pretty irrelevant now, they continue to go backwards under Mulvihill - they need a new front 5 and coach to move forward. They have some class players but won't be able to flourish in the type of environment that was created by the Pieman.

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Post by Guest Sun 20 Sep 2020, 6:43 pm

Just thought it's worth mentioning that the Blues won the Challenge Cup in 2018. So not quite over 3 years ago. For those who struggle with numbers this might help.

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Post by Brendan Mon 21 Sep 2020, 7:45 am

How much of the Blues European win was down to having a great no. 10 who is no longer there.

16/17 Season was the last season of the Pro12 and look how much they were ahead of the other 3 teams
7th Blues 53pts
8 Connacht 44
9 Edinburgh 31
10 Benetton 23

Last 3 years results (most recent first)
V Edinbugh LLWL
V Connacht LLLWWW
V Bennetton WWLW

So Blues are clearly dropped off from where they were.  They have won 3/4 v Benetton yet have finished below them each year.  They have won all 5 v the Dragons but can they maintain that this coming season.

Edinburgh and Connacht have finished in the top 3 places in the Conference twice while Benetton have made it once.   When you consider that for Edinburgh their two games were against Glasgow, Connacht had Leinster and Ulster while Blues had the easier games v Scarlets and Dragons.

So maybe I should have dropped Benetton down to the bottom 4 teams but I feel they are above them and have a better coach.

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Post by Guest Mon 21 Sep 2020, 11:54 am

It's hard to say when it comes to Anscombe but I wouldn't get too hung up on just the Blues.

The Scarlets lost their coach to Wales after winning the Pro12 and their form went to pot. Then their next coach was pinched back by NZ. Ulster have been a mess for a few years but are turning it back around and look like a top side again, while performing similarly to Edinburgh despite their troubles.

Again, judging Edinburgh against that when they've had stability in their coaching and all the rest of it seems a bit too narrow in its analysis. I'd go back to the glass ceiling each team has shown and for me Edinburgh are ahead of Connacht (for now, although Connacht have a league to their name) but below the Scarlets and Ulster who have shown more pedigree and more ability in big games. That's not to say they won't get there but for now too much is being put on the shoulders of 'could' rather than 'have' and I think the Blues fit in to this because they 'have' won a European Challenge Cup 2 years ago.

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Post by Brendan Mon 21 Sep 2020, 12:38 pm

The places at the start are based on average league position over the last three years.

Ulster for coming off a bad spell shows how high you hold them.  Since 12/13 when they finished top of the league they had only 2 years when they haven't been top 4.  16/17 fifth one point off fourth. 17/18 finished 6th but only 8pts off 2nd.  18/19 finished 4th so need to adjust the top details.

If Edinburgh had a bad first team compared to say other teams not sure how they did so well in the Champions Cup the year they did poor in the league.  If anything they have a great first team and poor squad.

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Post by Hazel Sapling Mon 21 Sep 2020, 2:42 pm

Probably would revise the groups in the way of the Pro12

1) Leinster - dominant young team who are a top 4 side in Europe and probably would be on par with the NZ Super Rugby clubs
2) Munster, Ulster, Glasgow/Scarlets (maybes?) - strong sides for years though Glasgow and Scarlets are rebuilding/at the bottom of this level. Fatally flawed at the highest level but are able to give the top teams a good go
3a) Edinburgh, Connacht, Blues - Edinburgh and Glasgow could swap tiers this season if Edinburgh back up last after cup run, league run every alternating year. Connacht have felt competitive in most years and seem to be around that 7th spot overall frequently. Blues have talent but have underperformed and could drop into the tier below
3b) Ospreys, Bennetton, Dragons - O's last made the playoffs in 16/17 and have been yo-yoing with Blues on who the second region is. Key players aging and a long international season are the reason to keep them below Cardiff entering the season. Bennetton and Dragons are competitive and building up
4) Zebre - Will probably move up and enter Tier 3b at some point, don't know enough about Italian rugby to really make a judgement

Several unknowns considering we are coming off a RWC and Covid year. There are probably some arguments on whether to swap some teams around but with another long international season ahead (Everyone has at least 6 games this Autumn planned plus Six Nations and a Summer/Lions Tour to prepare for), we may have more of the same as last year.

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Post by Brendan Mon 21 Sep 2020, 3:41 pm

I would guess that Connacht now have the least number of internationals compared to anyone else in the league. Dragons with their latest signings now have a reasonable number players out during the international window.

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Post by Guest Mon 21 Sep 2020, 4:03 pm

Hazel's ranking makes more sense to me. Although I'd be tempted to move the Dragons down to Zebre's level as they barely won a game away from home for the last decade.

This makes for some painful reading, particularly when you start scrolling through the years: https://twitter.com/diddragonslose

I think Dean Ryan has stopped the rot and the WRU have helped save them from liquidation but I'd still put them in that bottom rung until they've proven otherwise.

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Post by Brendan Mon 21 Sep 2020, 4:23 pm

I am obviously missing something on the Blues and Edinburgh as two of you feel the Blues and Edinburgh are on a simillar standing.

Last year's challange Cup the Blues finished 3rd when they had Tigers the worse team in the Premiership and Pau who were 12th in the T14.  They also had Calvisano.  Blues should have walked that group but couldn't.

Edinburgh had Bordeaux who were the best team in the T14 and Wasps who are one of the better teams in the Premership yet  finished second in the group.  The 4th team was Agen simillar standard to Pau.

Year before Edinburgh get 1st in group with Toulon and Montpellier and Newcastle. They lost 1 game but picked up a LBP.  Blues came third picking up nothing against Glasgow and Sarries (though wouldn't expect much amyway from them). So while they picked up 2 wins v Lyon they lost by more than 7pts both home and away v the top two.

17/18 Blues did win the Challange Cup beating Edinburgh in the quarters so that year they had the hard group and won the whole thing so that year probably better.

But last two years it's been all Edinburgh including wining the last 3 games against each other. As a Munster fan I would be worried playing Edinburgh home or away. Blues wouldn't worry be home and away would expect to win BP if needed.

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Post by Guest Mon 21 Sep 2020, 4:30 pm

I think the difference is Edinburgh's 'difference' from the Blues just isn't that great in the grand scheme of things and it doesn't cancel out the fact the Blues were recent winner of a European trophy, showing what they can do when they get it 'right'.

Given the players the Blues have signed - e.g. Josh Adams - who haven't had a chance to actually play very much rugby just yet and I think you're underestimating both the Blues' past form over Edinburgh's, and their future potential for next season. Edinburgh have shown more in recent years but they also crumbled monumentally. This was after years of being practically whipping boys. That's not enough to be up with the likes of the Scarlets and Glasgow. They just don't have the pedigree yet - not saying it won't happen, but not yet.

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Post by Guest Mon 21 Sep 2020, 4:32 pm

To put it another way: how far are Edinburgh from 'peaking'?

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Post by Hazel Sapling Mon 21 Sep 2020, 5:19 pm

Brendan wrote:I am obviously missing something on the Blues and Edinburgh as two of you feel the Blues and Edinburgh are on a simillar standing.

Last year's challange Cup the Blues finished 3rd when they had Tigers the worse team in the Premiership and Pau who were 12th in the T14.  They also had Calvisano.  Blues should have walked that group but couldn't.

Edinburgh had Bordeaux who were the best team in the T14 and Wasps who are one of the better teams in the Premership yet  finished second in the group.  The 4th team was Agen simillar standard to Pau.

Year before Edinburgh get 1st in group with Toulon and Montpellier and Newcastle. They lost 1 game but picked up a LBP.  Blues came third picking up nothing against Glasgow and Sarries (though wouldn't expect much amyway from them).  So while they picked up 2 wins v Lyon they lost by more than 7pts both home and away v the top two.

17/18 Blues did win the Challange Cup beating Edinburgh in the quarters so that year they had the hard group and won the whole thing so that year probably better.

But last two years it's been all Edinburgh including wining the last 3 games against each other.  As a Munster fan I would be worried playing Edinburgh home or away.  Blues wouldn't worry be home and away would expect to win BP if needed.

Not really that different. I have Edinburgh as top of the next level and probably have them passing Glasgow by January if form holds. The last full season, Edinburgh had a great cup run and were poor in the league. This RWC and Covid season they were okay in the cup and good in the league. It is the consistency element that stops them being Tier 2 when I was thinking about where were they were definitively, though in reality Edinburgh should push on to be competing with Munster/Ulster for second based on talent.

Cardiff are bottom of the half tier and really might drop to the tier down and swap with Ospreys. The squad has some good players in Carre, Lewis (good club player, 24 year old tightheads rarely dominate internationally), Hill, Navidi, T Williams, Evans/Patchell and Adams. The depth is not great and I can see them struggling with so many internationals next season.

So overall, I would say Edinburgh are above Connacht/Blues and have higher expectations but they need to back it up next season by finishing in the top 5 to put the debate to bed. Blues need to be competing for 7th with Connacht to be a lower mid table side.

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Post by PhilBB Wed 23 Sep 2020, 9:33 am

Brendan wrote:How much of the Blues European win was down to having a great no. 10 who is no longer there.
.

Cardiff's win was significantly due to Anscombe, but more due to the fact they could put (Gethin Jenkins apart) their best team on the pitch throughout the tournament.

They can't do that in the soon-to-be PrO'16 because of the interference of the international game.
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Post by PhilBB Wed 23 Sep 2020, 9:34 am

rugby racing and beer wrote:Not for me, they're not quite there yet. They've done nothing really of note and have flattered to deceive once teams are at full strength.

I think you've overlooking the glass ceiling each club has and also reading too much in to a possible, not an actual: potential. The Blues have signed a lot of players in the last 12 months they're clearly not looking back at the Dragons or the Ospreys. For me, winning a European Cup means something. It shows the quality of your best side. Edinburgh's glass ceiling isn't there yet and again I struggle to see how Benneton are better than the Blues on that basis. I'd go with 'what they are like at their best' over 'potential future gains' as a metric, personally, but I suppose it's all in good fun.

What?

They've signed 4: https://www.cardiffblues.com/news/cardiff-blues-2020-21-squad-confirmed

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Post by Pot Hale Wed 23 Sep 2020, 10:52 am

It looks like the err organisers of the Pry12 have decided to stick with the conferences despite losing two teams.

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Post by PhilBB Wed 23 Sep 2020, 11:07 am

Pot Hale wrote:It looks like the err organisers of the Pry12 have decided to stick with the conferences despite losing two teams.  


The plan is for the 4 SA teams to join in February.
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Post by Old Man Wed 23 Sep 2020, 11:16 am

PhilBB wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:It looks like the err organisers of the Pry12 have decided to stick with the conferences despite losing two teams.  


The plan is for the 4 SA teams to join in February.

I certainly hope not

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Post by PhilBB Wed 23 Sep 2020, 11:20 am

Old Man wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:It looks like the err organisers of the Pry12 have decided to stick with the conferences despite losing two teams.  


The plan is for the 4 SA teams to join in February.

I certainly hope not

https://www.pro14.rugby/latest/news/guinness-pro14-statement-regarding-south-african-participation

Sorry.
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Post by RugbyFan100 Wed 23 Sep 2020, 11:54 am

February? What kind of joke is this? Absolute nonsense league.

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Post by Brendan Wed 23 Sep 2020, 11:59 am

RugbyFan100 wrote:February? What kind of joke is this? Absolute nonsense league.

It just means the European and SA teams won't play each other until February. SA is still to play professional rugby since the shutdown. Cant override government rules. If Brittian/England carry on as they are will the Premership have a break too. No one knows

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Post by RugbyFan100 Wed 23 Sep 2020, 12:01 pm

Brendan wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:February? What kind of joke is this? Absolute nonsense league.

It just means the European and SA teams won't play each other until February.  SA is still to play professional rugby since the shutdown.  Cant override government rules.  If Brittian/England carry on as they are will the Premership have a break too.  No one knows

Who are the SA teams going to play in their 10 - 12 games before February?

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Post by Brendan Wed 23 Sep 2020, 12:08 pm

We will see once the Currie Cup is over and also the league issues get resolved with SR as to if NZRU broke contractual agreements or if this year's national leagues were just a covid exception, and if so, was it ok for those competitions were allowed to call themselves SR and must they share that SR money with SA and Arg.

Legal things always result in little information

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Post by Old Man Wed 23 Sep 2020, 12:10 pm

SA domestic rugby schedule.

This weekend super fan day

Bulls vs Sharks, Lions vs Stormers.

Next weekend Bok trial match.

Then single round super rugby from 10 October to 21 November between the seven franchises, Lions, Bulls, Sharks, Cheetahs, Stormers, Griquas and Pumas.

Then Currie Cup from 28 November culminating in semi finals and finals end of January.

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Post by Brendan Wed 23 Sep 2020, 12:10 pm

It's not like the European civil war was any less up in the air.

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Post by Brendan Wed 23 Sep 2020, 12:13 pm

If the Pro14 showed one thing it was it's ability to adjust quickly. Yes there were hiccups like reminding players that big cats can end careers and non Europe's have different visa rules to non European countries.

This change would be a piece of cake.

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Post by RugbyFan100 Wed 23 Sep 2020, 12:21 pm

Brendan wrote:If the Pro14 showed one thing it was it's ability to adjust quickly.  Yes there were hiccups like reminding players that big cats can end careers and non Europe's have different visa rules to non European countries.

This change would be a piece of cake.

It's not the change that's the issue it's the cedibility of the league. But no matter what the ProWhatever does you'd defend it.

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Post by PhilBB Wed 23 Sep 2020, 12:24 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
Brendan wrote:If the Pro14 showed one thing it was it's ability to adjust quickly.  Yes there were hiccups like reminding players that big cats can end careers and non Europe's have different visa rules to non European countries.

This change would be a piece of cake.

It's not the change that's the issue it's the cedibility of the league. But no matter what the ProWhatever does you'd defend it.

It has no credibility, we know this. It's just something to do in between other matches.

Jonny Sexton played 58 minutes of PrO rugby last season before the knock out stages. No wonder he was dropped for the Final.
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Post by RugbyFan100 Wed 23 Sep 2020, 12:34 pm

PhilBB wrote:

Jonny Sexton played 58 minutes of PrO rugby last season before the knock out stages. No wonder he was dropped for the Final.

58 minutes? Laugh

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Post by Brendan Wed 23 Sep 2020, 1:02 pm

And yet there are worries over the English Championship and if it will actually start in December.

Most if not all the non PRL teams need gate receipts to survive and starting the league and having to un-furlough their players and take on all those costs.

I guess the Pro14 could invite Sarries over for the year.

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Post by Brendan Wed 23 Sep 2020, 1:05 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
PhilBB wrote:

Jonny Sexton played 58 minutes of PrO rugby last season before the knock out stages. No wonder he was dropped for the Final.

58 minutes? Laugh

And you wonder why some "facts" aren't believed

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Post by Brendan Wed 23 Sep 2020, 1:10 pm

PhillBB if you were CEO of the Pro14 what would you do to make it less Irish "bias" and what would you do to make it a more "serious" league.

We know the Scots seem to be doing fine but that might be down to the ancient connection with Ulster.

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Post by RugbyFan100 Wed 23 Sep 2020, 1:11 pm

Brendan wrote:

I guess the Pro14 could invite Sarries over for the year.

That would be awesome. So it won't happen.

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Post by PhilBB Wed 23 Sep 2020, 1:21 pm

Brendan wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
PhilBB wrote:

Jonny Sexton played 58 minutes of PrO rugby last season before the knock out stages. No wonder he was dropped for the Final.

58 minutes? Laugh

And you wonder why some "facts" aren't believed

Sorry, what do you mean?

https://www.cardiffrfcfans.com/analysis/players/player_appearances_time.php?seasonID=25&clubID=16
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Post by Brendan Wed 23 Sep 2020, 1:21 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
Brendan wrote:

I guess the Pro14 could invite Sarries over for the year.

That would be awesome. So it won't happen.

They might never go back with no salary Cap.

Stick them in the same Conference as Leinster.

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Post by PhilBB Wed 23 Sep 2020, 1:22 pm

Brendan wrote:PhillBB if you were CEO of the Pro14 what would you do to make it less Irish "bias" and what would you do to make it a more "serious" league.

We know the Scots seem to be doing fine but that might be down to the ancient connection with Ulster.

I'd headquarter in Switzerland, for starters.

But I'd be powerless as the job of a CEO is to appease his/her shareholders and the Unions are shareholders.

Hence the thing is rotten before it has started.
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Post by Brendan Wed 23 Sep 2020, 1:46 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Brendan wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
PhilBB wrote:

Jonny Sexton played 58 minutes of PrO rugby last season before the knock out stages. No wonder he was dropped for the Final.

58 minutes? Laugh

And you wonder why some "facts" aren't believed

Sorry, what do you mean?

https://www.cardiffrfcfans.com/analysis/players/player_appearances_time.php?seasonID=25&clubID=16

So only the 15 games. Ignoring the WC meant he couldn't play in the first 7 games so now we are down to 8 games. Picks up a knee injury Dec 7th.  Injured until 6N so missed out till round 10.  6N doesn't finish but Leinster play 3 games.

So in the first 13 games he wasn't fit or was having IRFU enforced rest.  First two games back which were season warm up games he gets 58 minutes.  Sounds about right.
He plays 68 minutes in the Semi
He plays 20 minutes in the Final (that one he was "rested" for or they didn't want to break him again)

So "fact" but let's explain how it was achieved.

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Post by PhilBB Wed 23 Sep 2020, 2:01 pm

Brendan wrote:

So only the 15 games. Ignoring the WC meant he couldn't play in the first 7 games so now we are down to 8 games. Picks up a knee injury Dec 7th.  Injured until 6N so missed out till round 10.  6N doesn't finish but Leinster play 3 games.

So in the first 13 games he wasn't fit or was having IRFU enforced rest.  First two games back which were season warm up games he gets 58 minutes.  Sounds about right.
He plays 68 minutes in the Semi
He plays 20 minutes in the Final (that one he was "rested" for or they didn't want to break him again)

So "fact" but let's explain how it was achieved.

"IRFU enforced rest"
"Knee injury"

Yeah yeah
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Post by Brendan Wed 23 Sep 2020, 2:03 pm

Brendan wrote:PhillBB if you were CEO of the Pro14 what would you do to make it less Irish "bias" and what would you do to make it a more "serious" league.

We know the Scots seem to be doing fine but that might be down to the ancient connection with Ulster.

So....
Anything.....

Is the system so racist that we must tear down the system and start again. Is that the leagues only hope

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Post by Brendan Wed 23 Sep 2020, 2:04 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Brendan wrote:

So only the 15 games. Ignoring the WC meant he couldn't play in the first 7 games so now we are down to 8 games. Picks up a knee injury Dec 7th.  Injured until 6N so missed out till round 10.  6N doesn't finish but Leinster play 3 games.

So in the first 13 games he wasn't fit or was having IRFU enforced rest.  First two games back which were season warm up games he gets 58 minutes.  Sounds about right.
He plays 68 minutes in the Semi
He plays 20 minutes in the Final (that one he was "rested" for or they didn't want to break him again)

So "fact" but let's explain how it was achieved.

"IRFU enforced rest"
"Knee injury"

Yeah yeah

Thanks for summarizing and agreeing

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Post by PhilBB Wed 23 Sep 2020, 2:15 pm

Brendan wrote:
Brendan wrote:PhillBB if you were CEO of the Pro14 what would you do to make it less Irish "bias" and what would you do to make it a more "serious" league.

We know the Scots seem to be doing fine but that might be down to the ancient connection with Ulster.

So....
Anything.....

Is the system so racist that we must tear down the system and start again.  Is that the leagues only hope

Racist?
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Post by Brendan Wed 23 Sep 2020, 2:23 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Brendan wrote:
Brendan wrote:PhillBB if you were CEO of the Pro14 what would you do to make it less Irish "bias" and what would you do to make it a more "serious" league.

We know the Scots seem to be doing fine but that might be down to the ancient connection with Ulster.

So....
Anything.....

Is the system so racist that we must tear down the system and start again.  Is that the leagues only hope

Racist?

You think the league is set up to benefit the Irish over the Welsh. If true that would be racist.

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Post by RugbyFan100 Wed 23 Sep 2020, 2:37 pm

Brendan wrote:

You think the league is set up to benefit the Irish over the Welsh.  If true that would be racist.

What the actual feckity feck? Laugh

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Post by Brendan Wed 23 Sep 2020, 3:38 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
Brendan wrote:

You think the league is set up to benefit the Irish over the Welsh.  If true that would be racist.

What the actual feckity feck? Laugh

Pr'O14 is Phil calling the league "racist" because in his opinion the Pro14 only helps the Irish teams on purpose. If not viewing it as the league is racist I'd love to hear the Word that would sum up his view.  If you read all pro14 posts you would see his view.  It's why he wants to leave the Pro14.

Every few outside of Wales would see it that way and even in Wales in would be a minority opinion.

I asked what he would do to fix the league and we are still waiting for an answer.  It seems to be the nations involved that are his problem.  Make of that what you will.

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Post by PhilBB Wed 23 Sep 2020, 4:05 pm

Brendan wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
Brendan wrote:
Brendan wrote:PhillBB if you were CEO of the Pro14 what would you do to make it less Irish "bias" and what would you do to make it a more "serious" league.

We know the Scots seem to be doing fine but that might be down to the ancient connection with Ulster.

So....
Anything.....

Is the system so racist that we must tear down the system and start again.  Is that the leagues only hope

Racist?

You think the league is set up to benefit the Irish over the Welsh.  If true that would be racist.

Well, that's a really, really, really weird take on it.
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Post by PhilBB Wed 23 Sep 2020, 4:07 pm

Brendan wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
Brendan wrote:

You think the league is set up to benefit the Irish over the Welsh.  If true that would be racist.

What the actual feckity feck? Laugh

Pr'O14 is Phil calling the league "racist" because in his opinion the Pro14 only helps the Irish teams on purpose.  If not viewing it as the league is racist I'd love to hear the Word that would sum up his view.  If you read all pro14 posts you would see his view.  It's why he wants to leave the Pro14.

Every few outside of Wales would see it that way and even in Wales in would be a minority opinion.

I asked what he would do to fix the league and we are still waiting for an answer.  It seems to be the nations involved that are his problem.  Make of that what you will.

How do you solve a problem with a business?
Ok, what job do I have to solve the issues?
You're the Chief Exect, mate.
Great. Oh. The Chief Exec reports to the shareholders
Yes, so? What's the problem with that?
The shareholders don't see a problem with the business, so no changes can be made.
What? But you think this is a racist league!?!!
Right, erm, ok, thanks for the job offer but I think it's best I walk away......
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