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And Some People Say The PR'O14 Is Incompetent....

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Post by Irish Londoner Tue 13 Oct 2020 - 9:45

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/oct/13/bbc-unhappy-as-premiership-rugby-drops-offer-to-show-twickenham-final

Premiership Rugby is at the centre of another row, this time over television coverage of the Twickenham final between Exeter and Wasps on Saturday week. Until last week the BBC, having initially been approached by PRL’s chief executive, Darren Childs, had been preparing to show the game live to a broader terrestrial audience on BBC Two only to discover the “offer” had been withdrawn.

The situation has prompted irritation within BBC circles, with an entire outside broadcast unit and two prominent former England internationals having to be stood down at short notice. While BT Sport holds the primary broadcasting rights to the tournament, it would have significantly enhanced club rugby’s profile had the game been made widely available in a prime 6pm early-evening slot.

As it is, with no paying supporters allowed into Twickenham, the final will be much less visible with live coverage restricted to BT Sport subscribers plus an edited highlights package on Channel 5 the next day. The viewing figures for the semi-finals last Saturday peaked at 205,000, while an autumn international kicking off at 6pm on BBC Two would be expected to draw an audience closer to two million.

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Post by PhilBB Tue 13 Oct 2020 - 11:19

Why is that a sign of incompetence?
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Post by Irish Londoner Tue 13 Oct 2020 - 12:07

PhilBB wrote:Why is that a sign of incompetence?

Because putting the showcase game of English professional rugby on a terrestrial TV channel might attract a few more viewers than having it on BT Sport behind a paywall? And maybe some of those viewers might develop an interest in rugby and want to see some more?

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Post by Brendan Tue 13 Oct 2020 - 12:46

I think the incompetence is them making to offer and then withdrawing it. Making an offer is different to tender.

Even the Pro14 with their less well known broadcasters have the final on free view. The Premership even copied the Pro14 model of leaving games each week on freeview via channel 5.

Because of attendance issues n the semi between Leinster and Munster you could watch the match live via the internet in a deal with EIR.

The Sale debacle also showed the PRL problems and how they need a board of directors who make all the decisions. Then have a shareholders meeting at the end of each season with the club's to review the season and set out the plan for the next year.

The PRL seems to be all about jobs for the boys and the Clubs working in their own individual interest rather than the league. This was shown when 2 clubs in 2015 were able to block wage cap issues because the amount of things that need unanimous decisions.

If Sarries had of refused to take relegation this year and said that they wouldn't agree to a decrease in wage cap, or anything else that needed unanimous approval until they werent relegated, what would/could the PRL/clubs do. The answer is nothing as shown in 2015.

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Post by PhilBB Tue 13 Oct 2020 - 13:21

Irish Londoner wrote:
PhilBB wrote:Why is that a sign of incompetence?

Because putting the showcase game of English professional rugby on a terrestrial TV channel might attract a few more viewers than having it on BT Sport behind a paywall? And maybe some of those viewers might develop an interest in rugby and want to see some more?

True. It didn't work in Wales but it may work in England.

But how would that be allowed within the BT Sport contract? Or, if you're suggesting rugby should be on free to air tv, how would the loss of TV income (as fta always pays less than PPV) be made up?
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Post by No 7&1/2 Tue 13 Oct 2020 - 13:27

You read the article phil? In terms of the final it would have had to be discussed with BT. Theres obviously some league games shown already.

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Post by Irish Londoner Tue 13 Oct 2020 - 14:19

PhilBB wrote:
Irish Londoner wrote:
PhilBB wrote:Why is that a sign of incompetence?

Because putting the showcase game of English professional rugby on a terrestrial TV channel might attract a few more viewers than having it on BT Sport behind a paywall? And maybe some of those viewers might develop an interest in rugby and want to see some more?

True. It didn't work in Wales but it may work in England.

But how would that be allowed within the BT Sport contract? Or, if you're suggesting rugby should be on free to air tv, how would the loss of TV income (as fta always pays less than PPV) be made up?

Of course if it won't work in Wales it won't work anywhere will it?

BT Sport already allow games from both the Gallagher and the European competitions to be shown on FTA they've done so for the last couple of seasons, so showing the final would be no different. It appears that they approached the BBC not the other way round and then at the last moment changed their minds - for reasons unexplained so far - that to me is the incompetence.

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Post by PhilBB Tue 13 Oct 2020 - 16:39

Irish Londoner wrote:

Of course if it won't work in Wales it won't work anywhere will it?

BT Sport already allow games from both the Gallagher and the European competitions to be shown on FTA they've done so for the last couple of seasons, so showing the final would be no different. It appears that they approached the BBC not the other way round and then at the last moment changed their minds - for reasons unexplained so far - that to me is the incompetence.

Right, understood. Ta.
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Post by Guest Tue 13 Oct 2020 - 23:10

The BBC's going down the pan in all honesty and its sports coverage - which has been increasingly declining for years - has become almost shambolic in recent times given the resources and access the have. MOTD is embarrassingly poor in comparison to Sky's or even BT's alternative review/analysis show and the internet has effectively destroyed its reason for existing as everyone can watch highlights in 2 minutes on their phone before 9pm.

Put it on Channel 4 instead, they've shown an interest in broadcasting rugby and have some commercial clout, albeit small. Or itv given their history with the World Cup (which, streaming issues aside, is now no worse than the BBC's rugby coverage).

I much prefer BT as a broadcaster tbh, they stuck their colours to rugby and have made a real success of it. Obviously it's not ideal that it's pay per view but tbh putting it on the BBC wouldn't help. They're low on in depth analysis and technical detail while also boring and stale in comparison to subscription broadcasters (at their best, Premier Sports are an example of doing it badly).

The real answer however is one that's being overlooked: the internet. Put it for free on YouTube like they do for the football. Having it on the BBC isn't the be all and end all now - the people who stick to the BBC tend to be over 60s and they're not exactly the target demographic for the future of rugby. Equally, the Challenge Cup doesn't really get too many people interested in League despite a long history of BBC coverage. Yep, it definitely helps, but this half in, half out approach doesn't work. Either you commit i.e. BT in taking rugby away from sky and making it successful on their platform, or you do what the BBC does which is suffer a long, slow, painful death where you coverage gets worse each year. Given the democratisation of media - from twitter to fan channels and team-specific online spaces and channels - the BBC has nothing new to add to rugby in all honesty. I don't want to see them lose the 6 Nations but that will happen eventually.

There's very little to be gained by putting this game on the BBC. If it isn't being streamed free to air on the BT website and, more importantly, YouTube, then that's what BT needs to do. That's what will get people under 30 watching and more likely to invest in rugby in one way or another.

The offer being withdrawn sounds a tad shambolic though.

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Post by LordDowlais Wed 14 Oct 2020 - 15:39

rugby racing and beer wrote:The real answer however is one that's being overlooked: the internet. Put it for free on YouTube like they do for the football. Having it on the BBC isn't the be all and end all now - the people who stick to the BBC tend to be over 60s and they're not exactly the target demographic for the future of rugby

That's very unfair, my father is over 60 and he loves his rugby, are we saying we should forget about people like him ? I would wager, that the retired generation put more into our sport than most.

Also, I do not agree with your analogy with the BBC either, I thought that between both BBC Wales and S4C they did quite a good job covering rugby, two or three live games a week, and a highlight show on Sunday night.

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Post by Guest Wed 14 Oct 2020 - 20:37

Of course we're not 'forgetting' people like him. But chances are if he already likes rugby he is able to access it - if not in his own home, then via the pub or friends.

The justification for putting it on the BBC is people almost watch it 'by accident'. If someone loves rugby that's unlikely to be the case.

BBC Wales' rugby was something of an anomaly. I'm talking about all sport across the UK BBC.

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Post by PhilBB Thu 15 Oct 2020 - 10:52

LordDowlais wrote:
rugby racing and beer wrote:The real answer however is one that's being overlooked: the internet. Put it for free on YouTube like they do for the football. Having it on the BBC isn't the be all and end all now - the people who stick to the BBC tend to be over 60s and they're not exactly the target demographic for the future of rugby

That's very unfair, my father is over 60 and he loves his rugby, are we saying we should forget about people like him ? I would wager, that the retired generation put more into our sport than most.

Also, I do not agree with your analogy with the BBC either, I thought that between both BBC Wales and S4C they did quite a good job covering rugby, two or three live games a week, and a highlight show on Sunday night.

BBC Wales' old coverage of the PrO league was abysmal. Mind you, Premier Sports employing many of the same people has been a huge mistake.

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Post by Pot Hale Thu 15 Oct 2020 - 11:44

PhilBB wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
rugby racing and beer wrote:The real answer however is one that's being overlooked: the internet. Put it for free on YouTube like they do for the football. Having it on the BBC isn't the be all and end all now - the people who stick to the BBC tend to be over 60s and they're not exactly the target demographic for the future of rugby

That's very unfair, my father is over 60 and he loves his rugby, are we saying we should forget about people like him ? I would wager, that the retired generation put more into our sport than most.

Also, I do not agree with your analogy with the BBC either, I thought that between both BBC Wales and S4C they did quite a good job covering rugby, two or three live games a week, and a highlight show on Sunday night.

BBC Wales' old coverage of the PrO league was abysmal. Mind you, Premier Sports employing many of the same people has been a huge mistake.


Who have Premier Sports employed from BBC Wales old show? I haven't seen either so not familiar with the names.
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Post by PhilBB Thu 15 Oct 2020 - 12:03

Pot Hale wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
rugby racing and beer wrote:The real answer however is one that's being overlooked: the internet. Put it for free on YouTube like they do for the football. Having it on the BBC isn't the be all and end all now - the people who stick to the BBC tend to be over 60s and they're not exactly the target demographic for the future of rugby

That's very unfair, my father is over 60 and he loves his rugby, are we saying we should forget about people like him ? I would wager, that the retired generation put more into our sport than most.

Also, I do not agree with your analogy with the BBC either, I thought that between both BBC Wales and S4C they did quite a good job covering rugby, two or three live games a week, and a highlight show on Sunday night.

BBC Wales' old coverage of the PrO league was abysmal. Mind you, Premier Sports employing many of the same people has been a huge mistake.


Who have Premier Sports employed from BBC Wales old show?  I haven't seen either so not familiar with the names.

Tullett, Harries, Holley, Williams -> all equally awful
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Post by LordDowlais Thu 15 Oct 2020 - 13:27

PhilBB wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
rugby racing and beer wrote:The real answer however is one that's being overlooked: the internet. Put it for free on YouTube like they do for the football. Having it on the BBC isn't the be all and end all now - the people who stick to the BBC tend to be over 60s and they're not exactly the target demographic for the future of rugby

That's very unfair, my father is over 60 and he loves his rugby, are we saying we should forget about people like him ? I would wager, that the retired generation put more into our sport than most.

Also, I do not agree with your analogy with the BBC either, I thought that between both BBC Wales and S4C they did quite a good job covering rugby, two or three live games a week, and a highlight show on Sunday night.

BBC Wales' old coverage of the PrO league was abysmal. Mind you, Premier Sports employing many of the same people has been a huge mistake.


Oh hear we go. Rolling Eyes

See Phill, that's just you opinion, you are just like a few of the Dragons supporting gang oh here, just because you do not like things, it does not mean you are right.

I bet you hate WOL ?
I bet you hated ScrumV ?
I bet you hate the WRU ?

I could go on. But I will not, as you will just drag this through the gutter as always with you massive superiority complex that you have.

How anyone can think that two or three live games a week, and a highlights show along with all the adverts to remind people is bad coverage is beyond me.

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Post by RiscaGame Thu 15 Oct 2020 - 14:08

I was going to report your post, as it's very childish and contains another personal attack. But instead, I will try to talk to you like the adult you allegedly are. Just because you like things, doesn't mean anybody else has to. Why, when you dislike this site so much, do you feel the need to keep coming back?

As one of the Dragons supporters on here, I can tell you why I don't like Scrum V. I have told you this before anyway, on other threads. It never had any analysis, it would start and finish right as the game kicked off/ended. The commentary team were poor, particularly the seemingly disinterested Jiffy. Dragons were rarely shown, much the same as Newport don't get shown often by BBC now and there are probably numerous other issues I could list. I also don't remember these adverts you constantly speak of either. I would say you get them for Wales games, but not the Pro Teams. But ultimately that's just my opinion and I don't require validation for it.

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Post by LordDowlais Thu 15 Oct 2020 - 14:20

Why have you taken it personally ? Are you mentioned it it ?

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Post by LordDowlais Thu 15 Oct 2020 - 14:21

RiscaGame wrote:As one of the Dragons supporters on here, I can tell you why I don't like Scrum V. I have told you this before anyway, on other threads. It never had any analysis, it would start and finish right as the game kicked off/ended. The commentary team were poor, particularly the seemingly disinterested Jiffy. Dragons were rarely shown, much the same as Newport don't get shown often by BBC now and there are probably numerous other issues I could list. I also don't remember these adverts you constantly speak of either. I would say you get them for Wales games, but not the Pro Teams. But ultimately that's just my opinion and I don't require validation for it.

The Dragons are hardly ever shown on Premier Sports either, yet you wax lyrical about them. Strange...... Rolling Eyes

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Post by RiscaGame Thu 15 Oct 2020 - 14:32

LordDowlais wrote:Why have you taken it personally ? Are you mentioned it it ?

I said it was a personal attack, not an attack on me personally.

Dragons are shown on Premier Sports constantly. Feel free to have a look across the Match Centre pages and note the Premier Sports below every one up to week 8 (I could go further). The only week we appear not to be on Premier, is week 7.

https://www.pro14.rugby/match-centre/2021/8

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Post by LordDowlais Thu 15 Oct 2020 - 14:36

RiscaGame wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Why have you taken it personally ? Are you mentioned it it ?

I said it was a personal attack, not an attack on me personally.

Dragons are shown on Premier Sports constantly. Feel free to have a look across the Match Centre pages and note the Premier Sports below every one up to week 8 (I could go further). The only week we appear not to be on Premier, is week 8.

https://www.pro14.rugby/match-centre/2021/8



Just about as regular as they were shown on S4C/BBC Wales actually. OK

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Post by RiscaGame Thu 15 Oct 2020 - 14:39

What, 7/8 games? laughing

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Post by LordDowlais Thu 15 Oct 2020 - 14:46

RiscaGame wrote:What, 7/8 games? laughing

Yep, I am sure they were shown quite often over the season, and for somebody who used to bang his chest about being a fan who actually went to games, this is now going in a different direction altogether.

Are Premier sports obliged to show as many games as possible as well because of the pandemic ?

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Post by RiscaGame Thu 15 Oct 2020 - 15:20

You are of course aware that supporters can go to games and then catch up with the game on tv after the event, if it was televised? Even ignoring the iPlayer, there was such a thing as Sky Plus. So nobody except you is trying to move it onto attending games.

You'll forgive me if I don't take your word as gospel that Dragons were frequently shown. I would have more reason to believe my opinion that they were hardly shown, as I would likely have tried to have watched them at some point on a weekend.

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Post by LordDowlais Thu 15 Oct 2020 - 16:27

RiscaGame wrote:You'll forgive me if I don't take your word as gospel that Dragons were frequently shown. I would have more reason to believe my opinion that they were hardly shown, as I would likely have tried to have watched them at some point on a weekend.

They would have been on in some way or another every weekend, especially on ScumV on a Sunday evening. OK

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Post by PhilBB Thu 15 Oct 2020 - 16:29

LordDowlais wrote:
Oh hear we go. Rolling Eyes

See Phill, that's just you opinion, you are just like a few of the Dragons supporting gang oh here, just because you do not like things, it does not mean you are right.

I bet you hate WOL ?
I bet you hated ScrumV ?
I bet you hate the WRU ?

I could go on. But I will not, as you will just drag this through the gutter as always with you massive superiority complex that you have.

How anyone can think that two or three live games a week, and a highlights show along with all the adverts to remind people is bad coverage is beyond me.

Sometimes its very easy to have a superiority complex, other times not so easy

The coverage was awful because it was cliquey, matey, lacked analysis and was lazy.

With Premier Sports, I get every game (home and away) for peanuts.

So, comparatively, it was awful. Unless, of course, you were the target audience.
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Post by PhilBB Thu 15 Oct 2020 - 16:31

LordDowlais wrote:
RiscaGame wrote:As one of the Dragons supporters on here, I can tell you why I don't like Scrum V. I have told you this before anyway, on other threads. It never had any analysis, it would start and finish right as the game kicked off/ended. The commentary team were poor, particularly the seemingly disinterested Jiffy. Dragons were rarely shown, much the same as Newport don't get shown often by BBC now and there are probably numerous other issues I could list. I also don't remember these adverts you constantly speak of either. I would say you get them for Wales games, but not the Pro Teams. But ultimately that's just my opinion and I don't require validation for it.

The Dragons are hardly ever shown on Premier Sports either, yet you wax lyrical about them. Strange...... Rolling Eyes

Every Dragons game is shown on Premier Sports. That's the point. It shows every game.
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Post by PhilBB Thu 15 Oct 2020 - 16:32

LordDowlais wrote:
RiscaGame wrote:What, 7/8 games? laughing

Yep, I am sure they were shown quite often over the season, and for somebody who used to bang his chest about being a fan who actually went to games, this is now going in a different direction altogether.

Are Premier sports obliged to show as many games as possible as well because of the pandemic ?

Jesus wept. You don't even know what Premier Sports do.
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Post by RiscaGame Fri 16 Oct 2020 - 4:18

PhilBB wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
RiscaGame wrote:As one of the Dragons supporters on here, I can tell you why I don't like Scrum V. I have told you this before anyway, on other threads. It never had any analysis, it would start and finish right as the game kicked off/ended. The commentary team were poor, particularly the seemingly disinterested Jiffy. Dragons were rarely shown, much the same as Newport don't get shown often by BBC now and there are probably numerous other issues I could list. I also don't remember these adverts you constantly speak of either. I would say you get them for Wales games, but not the Pro Teams. But ultimately that's just my opinion and I don't require validation for it.

The Dragons are hardly ever shown on Premier Sports either, yet you wax lyrical about them. Strange...... Rolling Eyes

Every Dragons game is shown on Premier Sports. That's the point. It shows every game.

But but but, Chum V used to show highlights on a Sunday. That counts to the coverage, when she’s shifting the goalposts from live coverage, to me possibly not attending games (random turn of events) and then to an awful highlights show that apparently adds to the Dragons’ coverage.

Leave her be.

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Post by PhilBB Fri 16 Oct 2020 - 11:24

RiscaGame wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
RiscaGame wrote:As one of the Dragons supporters on here, I can tell you why I don't like Scrum V. I have told you this before anyway, on other threads. It never had any analysis, it would start and finish right as the game kicked off/ended. The commentary team were poor, particularly the seemingly disinterested Jiffy. Dragons were rarely shown, much the same as Newport don't get shown often by BBC now and there are probably numerous other issues I could list. I also don't remember these adverts you constantly speak of either. I would say you get them for Wales games, but not the Pro Teams. But ultimately that's just my opinion and I don't require validation for it.

The Dragons are hardly ever shown on Premier Sports either, yet you wax lyrical about them. Strange...... Rolling Eyes

Every Dragons game is shown on Premier Sports. That's the point. It shows every game.

But but but, Chum V used to show highlights on a Sunday. That counts to the coverage, when she’s shifting the goalposts from live coverage, to me possibly not attending games (random turn of events) and then to an awful highlights show that apparently adds to the Dragons’ coverage.

Leave her be.

I thought Lord Dowlais was a Lord, not a Lady

Still, not knowing that Premier Sports shows every game is a startling admission of ignorance.
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Post by LordDowlais Fri 16 Oct 2020 - 11:54

You gotta love old risca, cries about people being childish and using personal insults, and then just reels them all of post after post, and behaves like a child as well.

only on V2. Rolling Eyes

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Post by PhilBB Fri 16 Oct 2020 - 12:16

LordDowlais wrote:You gotta love old risca, cries about people being childish and using personal insults, and then just reels them all of post after post, and behaves like a child as well.

only on V2. Rolling Eyes

How come you didn't know that Premier Sports broadcasts every game?
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And Some People Say The PR'O14 Is Incompetent.... Empty Re: And Some People Say The PR'O14 Is Incompetent....

Post by LordDowlais Fri 16 Oct 2020 - 13:03

PhilBB wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:You gotta love old risca, cries about people being childish and using personal insults, and then just reels them all of post after post, and behaves like a child as well.

only on V2. Rolling Eyes

How come you didn't know that Premier Sports broadcasts every game?

I do not subscribe to it. OK

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And Some People Say The PR'O14 Is Incompetent.... Empty Re: And Some People Say The PR'O14 Is Incompetent....

Post by PhilBB Fri 16 Oct 2020 - 13:39

LordDowlais wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:You gotta love old risca, cries about people being childish and using personal insults, and then just reels them all of post after post, and behaves like a child as well.

only on V2. Rolling Eyes

How come you didn't know that Premier Sports broadcasts every game?

I do not subscribe to it. OK

So you lied when you wrote this post https://www.606v2.com/t69785-and-some-people-say-the-pr-o14-is-incompetent#3930368 as you were in no position to make that claim.

Interesting approach you have here.
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And Some People Say The PR'O14 Is Incompetent.... Empty Re: And Some People Say The PR'O14 Is Incompetent....

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