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Wales 5 Nations Whitewash

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Post by Shifty on Sat 31 Oct 2020, 8:43 pm

I had a horrible feeling we'd miss Gatland and his team badly.

We've gone from a 2019 Grand Slam under Gatland, to a 2020 Five Nations Whitewash, with only Italy to give us the illusion were not a poor team, who finished below us.
Obviously this season has been a total cluster **** for everyone, but it doesn't alter the fact we have lost 4 of our games. No shame in a 3 point away loss to England. But we were beaten easily in Dublin, and have lost at home to France and Scotland.

Surely from this point we need to be looking if Pivac is the right choice for the job?
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Post by rugby racing and beer on Sat 31 Oct 2020, 9:56 pm

It's far too easy to see things in black and white terms.

Wales played decent or decent to good rugby in 4 out of the 5 games. Even today, they defended well and completely shut Scotland down, but offered nothing in attack. It's hard to overlook how poor the referee was as well and shut down the little momentum Wales had on the front foot.

The other 3 defeats all had many positive signs. Today was a regression and things clearly need to change, but judging solely on the wins and losses makes it seem far worse than it actually is. They weren't comprehensively outplayed in any of the games, even against England where they were overpowered for much of the early stages. That shows there's still a lot to work with and a base upon which to build something that can eventually start winning narrowly instead of losing narrowly.

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Post by No9 on Sat 31 Oct 2020, 10:25 pm

Well first of all it wasn't a whitewash... we didn't loose all games.

But Pivac has to go... Any head coach who thinks Byron Hayward and Jonathan Humphries are good, never mind international coaches, is obviously not fit to hold onto his role.

If we dont get a good result in the Autumn Cup, and I dont mean beating Georgia, then the WRU need to give him his marching orders.

He's just undone all the hard work done over last 12 years under Gatland.

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Post by majesticimperialman on Sun 01 Nov 2020, 3:22 pm

no9
I do not agree with Pivac as to go. loosing Gatland as been a huge ;loss for Wales Pivac does have some big decisions to make about some of the players in the squad.

Pivac should at least be given untill the next 6ns and see how he goes If Wales do badly. then call for hom to go. But not br4fore than.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sun 01 Nov 2020, 4:20 pm

Well said Shifty and No9. Not sure if Pivac will go sooner than the 2 year break clause, but it does have echoes of Gareth Jenkins’ “judge me at the World Cup.” It might be time to let go of some of the old guard.

Completely agree on Hayward. What a poor coach he’s been in every coaching role he’s had. It doesn’t seem like such a conspiracy theory now does it.

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Post by TightHEAD on Mon 02 Nov 2020, 12:08 pm

Early days, He needs time to find the weak links in the squad and address it.

Long list so far to go through!


1/2p's time is up
North why was he given game time over Rees-Zammit?
AWJ is there on reputation not form.
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Post by Mr Bounce on Mon 02 Nov 2020, 2:29 pm

Englishman in peace here. The Welsh attack has looked woeful since the Covid break, especially from set piece. Granted the first try against the French was great but it was open running heads up counter attack, which should be most teams' bread and butter. The chopping and changing hasn't helped, but also Biggar has been suffering these last two games (shinsplints?) and should have been taken off in both games earlier than when he went. Can't have done much for Patchell's confidence either.

AWJ has looked tired for me. He's a fantastic leader, a one-off in today's game, but he's been relied on a bit too much in my eyes. He did a couple of half decent things in Saturday's match but it's one of the worst games I have seen him play for some time. The pack looked completely toothless. Tipuric and Navidi were very much missed. North I thought looked dreadful against France. JD2 is hardly on fire and appears to be playing on reputation alone. Even Faletau is a shadow of his former best.

What is going on? Is it too much rugby? Too much training? The wrong sort of coaching? A clash of personalities on the coaching staff? Whatever it is, is isn't working. The sort of limp-wristed approach that they had on Saturday is a poor spectacle. I appreciate that the conditions weren't the best, but these guys are supposedly one of the best teams in the world and should have no issues adapting. I don't think the press helps. Everywhere in the build up to the autumn games I read about how wonderful AWJ is and how Tompkins was looking forward to playing with Davies and that Lewis-Hughes could be the new AWJ. It's putting unnecessary pressure on, and the players looked jaded. They had no plan B either.

Watching Wales at their best is a joy. I'd like to see that Wales return.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Mon 02 Nov 2020, 3:31 pm

Mr Bounce wrote:Englishman in peace here.

Fake news....

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Post by majesticimperialman on Mon 02 Nov 2020, 6:21 pm

AWJ has been a great captain for Wales.
When he hangs up his boots, who is the most likely to take up the captaincy?

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Post by Mr Bounce on Mon 02 Nov 2020, 9:13 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
Mr Bounce wrote:Englishman in peace here.  

Fake news....

Actually Mikey, quite genuine. kiss

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Post by rugby racing and beer on Mon 02 Nov 2020, 9:21 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:AWJ has been a great captain for Wales.
When he hangs up his boots, who is the most likely to take up the captaincy?

Tough question.

In the short term, Tipuric. Vice captains likely to be Ken (even shorter term), JD2 at a push, possibly Ellis Jenkins if he ever returns to fitness (just over 2 years and counting since he last played). Faletau would be an old head with pedigree, possibly Navidi for an odd game, but all of these would only be options if Tipuric weren't playing.

Longer term, there's a complete absence of outstanding candidates. Maybe Dewi Lake given his track record in age grade rugby but still some way off and it's a bit like the 'FEC' nonsense with Itoje - you never know how they'll step up and whether they're captain material in the men's game.

Ideally you want your captain to come from the back 5 of the pack and be a natural leader and competitor within the nuts and bolts of the game itself - and that happens in those positions. There aren't many outstanding second rows and there's plenty of back row talent without anyone leaping out. Possibly Shane Lewis Hughes given what people are saying about his aptitiude and personality.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 09 Nov 2020, 8:41 am

Looks like Wales are really pressing the panic button now. Surely with the amount of changes and public grumbles it simply places more pressure on the staff and players.

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Post by NeilyBroon on Mon 09 Nov 2020, 1:15 pm

As someone who called for Toonies head on multiple occasions I can understand the sentiment from the Welsh camp. Like other posters here though I'd say there's hope, I think just give him another chance, Hayward has moved on, Pivac has a chance to redeem himself with some savy recruitment. It's very frustrating though, and I still believe cotter staying longer would have been the better option but Toonie seems to have learnt from his experiences, I expect that Pivac will too. Although hands off Tandy, he's now Scottish! Also you can keep Humphreys...
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