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World cup draw

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RiscaGame
majesticimperialman
Poorfour
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World cup draw Empty World cup draw

Post by tigertattie Mon 14 Dec 2020, 11:47 am

Link below

https://www.rugbyworldcup.com/2023/pool-draw

Well thre we have it. Some taling points there with England getting the "easier" group? Pool B and C are the "groups of death" with Wales, Oz and Fiji havng world cup rematches, again!

France as hosts getting thier old pal NZ in thier group. They'll probably like htat to be honest!

Pool A
New Zealand
France
Italy
America 1
Africa 1

Pool B
South Africa
Ireland
Scotland
Asia/Pacific 1
Europe 2

Pool C
Wales
Australia
Fiji
Europe 1
Final Qualifier Winner

Pool D
England
Japan
Argentina
Oceania 1
Americas 2

Draw bands

Band 1 - South Africa, New Zealand, England, Wales
Band 2 - Ireland, France, Australia, Japan
Band 3 - Scotland, Argentina, Fiji and Italy
Band 4 - Oceania 1, Americas 1, Europe 1, Asia / Pacific 1
Band 5 - Africa 1, Europe 2, Americas 2, Final Qualifier Winner


Last edited by tigertattie on Mon 14 Dec 2020, 12:17 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Post by tigertattie Mon 14 Dec 2020, 11:52 am

Wow. Is there really a need for the massive advert when the only folk watching this are already interested in the game!!!
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Post by tigertattie Mon 14 Dec 2020, 11:59 am

Well, this draw is going to take a long long time lol
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Post by tigertattie Mon 14 Dec 2020, 12:04 pm

So Fracne have Africa 1 so far - Safe to say this will be Namibia?
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Post by Gooseberry Mon 14 Dec 2020, 12:09 pm

Dodging France as the pot 2 team is the big thing here, and for teams in Pot 2/3 pulling Wales the bonus.

Argentina also potentially a rough draw.



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Post by tigertattie Mon 14 Dec 2020, 12:10 pm

Italy get France. Ouch

Argentina get a derby match with Americas 2 - Likely Uruguay?
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Post by Gooseberry Mon 14 Dec 2020, 12:11 pm

tigertattie wrote:Well, this draw is going to take a long long time lol

It is if they keep asking stupid questions about shoes!

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Post by tigertattie Mon 14 Dec 2020, 12:11 pm

Nooooooo we have the sodding Irish again
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Post by tigertattie Mon 14 Dec 2020, 12:13 pm

So someone in Band 1 is going to be lucky with a pool D draw. Pool B and Pool C looking difficult
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Post by Gooseberry Mon 14 Dec 2020, 12:13 pm

Pools B & D the ones to avoid ....

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Post by tigertattie Mon 14 Dec 2020, 12:14 pm

Well thats Scotland out the WC already
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Post by mikey_dragon Mon 14 Dec 2020, 12:15 pm

FFS drawn with Aus and Fiji for the third world cup in a row!

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Post by tigertattie Mon 14 Dec 2020, 12:15 pm

Pool A
New Zealand
France
Italy
America 1
Africa 1

Pool B
South Africa
Ireland
Scotland
Asia/Pacific 1
Europe 2

Pool C
Wales
Australia
Fiji
Europe 1
Final Qualifier Winner

Pool D
England
Japan
Argentina
Oceania 1
Americas 2
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Post by LondonTiger Mon 14 Dec 2020, 12:15 pm

England have easiest group imo.

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Post by Soul Requiem Mon 14 Dec 2020, 12:16 pm

Pretty happy with that from an England point of view; France and Fiji were the teams to avoid for us. Japan and Argentina shouldn't offer too much resistance in reality.

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Post by Gooseberry Mon 14 Dec 2020, 12:17 pm

tigertattie wrote:So someone in Band 1 is going to be lucky with a pool D draw. Pool B and Pool C looking difficult

Not sure Pool D is an easy one at all, two teams capable of beating anyone on their day. Pool C has Australia who are about the same level as Argentina but Fiji are considerably worse thatn Japan and unlikely to improve much, Japan could be a significant force by the next cup.


New Zealand in Frances group ... yikes. They should both be amongst the favourites and that means the quarters will get really fruity regardless of who tops their group.

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Post by BigTrevsbigmac Mon 14 Dec 2020, 12:18 pm

Quality of sides can change a lot in (almost) 3 years

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Post by MichaelT Mon 14 Dec 2020, 12:18 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:FFS drawn with Aus and Fiji for the third world cup in a row!

Was it not 2007 as well?

Really shows the limits of the rugby world cup doesnt it.

Pools A and B look tasty. Pool C too familiar and not that interesting because of the above. Pool D looks easy for England but that could mean nothing really.

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Post by mikey_dragon Mon 14 Dec 2020, 12:19 pm

MichaelT wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:FFS drawn with Aus and Fiji for the third world cup in a row!

Was it not 2007 as well?

Really shows the limits of the rugby world cup doesnt it.

Pools A and B look tasty. Pool C too familiar and not that interesting because of the above. Pool D looks easy for England but that could mean nothing really.

Make it four then, thanks!

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Post by MichaelT Mon 14 Dec 2020, 12:22 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
MichaelT wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:FFS drawn with Aus and Fiji for the third world cup in a row!

Was it not 2007 as well?

Really shows the limits of the rugby world cup doesnt it.

Pools A and B look tasty. Pool C too familiar and not that interesting because of the above. Pool D looks easy for England but that could mean nothing really.

Make it four then, thanks!

Thinking about it, Ireland beat Aus in 2011 group stage, so not 4 in a row.

Ireland V Scotland rematch will be tasty as both teams expected to beat Japan last year. They dont have that now with South Africa in the group.


Last edited by MichaelT on Mon 14 Dec 2020, 12:22 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : put 2001 and not 2011)

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Post by Gooseberry Mon 14 Dec 2020, 12:22 pm

Scotland Ireland a huge game in that group, rough draw for Ireland.

Pot C is very competitive but by far the weakest top 3 teams IMO.

England would should be beating Argentina and Japan if they are targeting being number one in the world, but we have seen Argentina are a rising force at the moment. Japan are by far the strongest of the pot 3 teams and have the potential to improve on that. Really dont see it as a soft draw, although far from a group of death.

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Post by tigertattie Mon 14 Dec 2020, 12:23 pm

Gooseberry wrote:
tigertattie wrote:So someone in Band 1 is going to be lucky with a pool D draw. Pool B and Pool C looking difficult

Not sure Pool D is an easy one at all, two teams capable of beating anyone on their day. Pool C has Australia who are about the same level as Argentina but Fiji are considerably worse thatn Japan and unlikely to improve much, Japan could be a significant force by the next cup.


New Zealand in Frances group ... yikes. They should both be amongst the favourites and that means the quarters will get really fruity regardless of who tops their group.

Away, pool D is the easiest for England and Arg will be glad they got Japan who will be nowhere near as competitive as they were at thier own world cup.

Pool C is difficult because all three of the seeded sides will be close together with Wales and Oz dropping in quality of late and Fiji starting to improve.

It's a long way away so time will tell.
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Post by Soul Requiem Mon 14 Dec 2020, 12:26 pm

In isolation Japan are possibly a harder team to beat than Fiji but physically it's a far easier game which in a world cup can prove important in the knockout stage.

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Post by mikey_dragon Mon 14 Dec 2020, 12:26 pm

MichaelT wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
MichaelT wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:FFS drawn with Aus and Fiji for the third world cup in a row!

Was it not 2007 as well?

Really shows the limits of the rugby world cup doesnt it.

Pools A and B look tasty. Pool C too familiar and not that interesting because of the above. Pool D looks easy for England but that could mean nothing really.

Make it four then, thanks!

Thinking about it, Ireland beat Aus in 2011 group stage, so not 4 in a row.

Ireland V Scotland rematch will be tasty as both teams expected to beat Japan last year. They dont have that now with South Africa in the group.

We were grouped with SA that year, with Fiji, Samoa and Namibia. All the other years it's been Aus and Fiji. I really hoped for something different this time.

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Post by MichaelT Mon 14 Dec 2020, 12:29 pm

tigertattie wrote:Japan who will be nowhere near as competitive as they were at thier own world cup.

Not sure I would agree - the 2015 tournament proved they are quarter-final level too. They were the first team to win 3 pool games and not qualify for the knock-outs. The scheduling killed them then as they had to play Scotland 4 days after South Africa.

Would put them at Scotland and Irelands level when it comes to world cups myself.

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Post by Recwatcher16 Mon 14 Dec 2020, 12:31 pm

England have avoided France in the pools but what are the quarter finals ?
Group A v Group D ?

At least England have avoided another pool like Argentina and France with Australia, New Zealand and then South Africa. The path to the final could be easier in 2023.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Mon 14 Dec 2020, 12:34 pm

Happy with that as an england fan.

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Post by Gooseberry Mon 14 Dec 2020, 12:40 pm

One thing to consider in Poll C is that the fourth pot team is likely to be Georgia. Based on the ANC thats not an issue, but certainly rougher than getting dross like Asia Pacific 1.

Pot D will get Samoa or Tonga who although rubbish in recent years could be a team like Fiji who can give even good sides the run around.

Americas teams would have to improve a hell of a lot to be an issue.

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Post by Collapse2005 Mon 14 Dec 2020, 1:03 pm

Ireland will have to beat NZ or France in the quarters if they get out of their group. 2027 here we come.

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Post by tigertattie Mon 14 Dec 2020, 1:12 pm

Am I right in thinking the draw with the other pots is likely to be:

Pool A
New Zealand
France
Italy
America 1 (TT’s prediction of USA)
Africa 1 (TT’s prediction of Namibia)

Pool B
South Africa
Ireland
Scotland
Asia/Pacific 1 (TT’s prediction of Samoa)
Europe 2 (TT’s prediction of Spain)

Pool C
Wales
Australia
Fiji
Europe 1 (TT’s prediction of Georgia)
Final Qualifier Winner (Take your pick - Canada, Romania, Portugal, Russia Hong Kong)

Pool D
England
Japan
Argentina
Oceania 1 (TT’s prediction of Tonga)
Americas 2 (TT’s prediction of Uruguay)
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Post by Cyril Mon 14 Dec 2020, 1:15 pm

Delighted with drawing Argentina and Japan.

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Post by TightHEAD Mon 14 Dec 2020, 1:24 pm

Found this comment on BBC, Made me chuckle. Laugh

Pool B seems to feature South Africa, South Africa A, and South Africa B...
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Post by MichaelT Mon 14 Dec 2020, 1:37 pm

Have New Zealand ever finished second in a pool at a world cup? Not sure they have ever lost a pool game.

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Post by The Oracle Mon 14 Dec 2020, 2:56 pm

tigertattie wrote:Am I right in thinking the draw with the other pots is likely to be:

Pool A
New Zealand
France
Italy
America 1 (TT’s prediction of USA)
Africa 1 (TT’s prediction of Namibia)

Pool B
South Africa
Ireland
Scotland
Asia/Pacific 1 (TT’s prediction of Samoa)
Europe 2 (TT’s prediction of Spain)

Pool C
Wales
Australia
Fiji
Europe 1 (TT’s prediction of Georgia)
Final Qualifier Winner (Take your pick - Canada, Romania, Portugal, Russia Hong Kong)

Pool D
England
Japan
Argentina
Oceania 1 (TT’s prediction of Tonga)
Americas 2 (TT’s prediction of Uruguay)


If Georgia do get the Pool C spot that will be the same 4 from last time won’t it? Aus, Wales, Fiji, Georgia. Strewth!
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Post by Hazel Sapling Mon 14 Dec 2020, 3:26 pm

Gooseberry, Japan were pot 2. Scotland and Argentina are the pick of the pot 3 sides.

I would have loved Scotland to replace Fiji in the Wales/Aus group and it is hard to see us getting past Ireland or SA. We have tended to struggle against really physical teams.

Should we beat one or the other and make it through, after getting beaten up against those two and either Samoa or Tonga, the QF is likely to be NZ or a home France team.

In a way it is good to see that any of the Pot 3 sides (Scotland, Argentina, Japan and Italy) have the ability to beat either of the favourites (well, maybe not Italy) and Pot 4 will contain Georgia, USA, Tonga and Samoa who are not quite pushovers.

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Post by Brendan Mon 14 Dec 2020, 4:35 pm

As always it will come down to the ridiculous match dates.  Last WC Uraguary beat Fiji.  They then played Georgia 4 days later and were handily beaten.  Georgia then played a fresh Fiji team 4 days later and lost.  Japan had the best gaps between games and played one easy one hard one easy one hard.  If France got the same draw could we see France play NZ with NZ on a short turnaround.

For groups like Pools B - D the days between matches could be the deciding factor.

Not happy that the ranking rules were changed (though can understand why).  Can't see what a difference next year would have made to the draw.  It's in France so selling tickets won't be hard.

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Post by tigertattie Mon 14 Dec 2020, 5:25 pm

I'm not fussed on the draw timings as realistically all that would have changed would be Oz and Wales swap bands (no impact on the draw) and Scotland and Japan swap bands so Scotland would have England and Arg instead of SA and Ireland so really not much of a difference (Scotland can lose to any of those teams)

The part that does annoy me is the you use the last world cup results to decide the seedings so you are ringfencing the teams that got to the QF last time thus giving them the best chance to reach the QF again next time so on so forth.

Should be drawn a year out from the comp with top 4 in the rankings seeded with everyone else playing qualifyer matches. Would get more exposure to the lesser nations
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Post by Mr Bounce Mon 14 Dec 2020, 5:42 pm

I can't be the only one drooling at the thought of a France-NZ pool game in a French World Cup? With the way they're improving it could be an absolute cracker of a match!

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Post by Poorfour Mon 14 Dec 2020, 6:32 pm

Mr Bounce wrote:I can't be the only one drooling at the thought of a France-NZ pool game in a French World Cup? With the way they're improving it could be an absolute cracker of a match!

Ugo Monye was suggesting that they'd already asked Wayne Barnes to referee it...
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Post by majesticimperialman Mon 14 Dec 2020, 7:07 pm

Wales can count them selves very lucky to be seeded as they are given that they ( wales ) are now 9th in the world rankings.

I fail to see why the draw is so early, surely it would be better off making the draw about a year before the World cup, when the rankings at the time would be more likely the outcome?

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Post by RiscaGame Mon 14 Dec 2020, 7:29 pm

Ah yeah, I am sure they are counting their blessings after that draw Madge. Really lucky indeed Rolling Eyes

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Post by mikey_dragon Mon 14 Dec 2020, 8:35 pm

How would we not get seeded though? It wasn't a stroke of luck to get seeded, that's how it works.

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Post by BigTrevsbigmac Mon 14 Dec 2020, 9:19 pm

To be fair even WOL acknowledge the lucky switch in timing...

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/how-rugby-world-cup-2023-19456566

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Post by mikey_dragon Mon 14 Dec 2020, 9:47 pm

But we were lucky to get seeded apparently, how could we not get seeded?

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Post by doctor_grey Tue 15 Dec 2020, 2:25 am

majesticimperialman wrote:Wales can count them selves very lucky to be seeded as they are given that they ( wales ) are now 9th in the world rankings.

I fail to see why the draw is so early, surely it would be better off making the draw about a year before the World cup, when the rankings  at the time would be more likely the outcome?
From an article in the Telegraph, quoting director general Claude Atcher of the RWC 2023 organising committee (december 14, 2020):

A burning question for Atcher, however, considering that the tournament is still more than three years away, is why the draw has come so soon?

“For France 2023, we have a very ambitious target in terms of ticket sales: 2.6 million,” Atcher adds. “The income and revenue we expect to come from these sales is €373 million, and because of this we have tried to minimise the risk of selling tickets and launch the ticketing sale in March. And to do that, we need to have the draw two or three months beforehand to have time to organise the full schedule.

“We have also tried to minimise the risk with the Olympic Games taking place in France one year after us, in 2024. They will probably open their sales at the beginning of 2023, so we are opening ours two-and-a-half years before to minimise the risk in terms of income and the number of tickets we have to sell.”

Atcher explains, too, that the effects of coronavirus on planning the tournament, while not as severe as they otherwise might have been, mean that every penny counts. He was the main man in planning the 2007 tournament where insurance for cancellations due to special circumstances (typhoons and pandemics) would have been a very low priority. In 2023, however, in a post-Covid, post-Typhoon Hagibis world, the organisers are taking no chances.

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Post by Gooseberry Tue 15 Dec 2020, 12:23 pm

Popping in current rankings to the draw ..

Poll A although having two teams expected to be contenders isnt a bad draw for them in terms of progressing, theres no team that should threaten either for a top 2 spot. Does mean someones going to get a duff quarter final even if they top their group. If the bracket works the same as last time 1B gets 2A and 1A vs 2B could be New Zealand Ireland again, and SA will face either France or NZ. A couple of big teams out before the semis whatever happens. One of the team from this half of the draw should then get a relatively soft semi (giggle) against Aus , Wales or Argentina, the other probably facing England. Scotland are pretty screwed even if they do get out of their group.

Pool C has the weakest top 3 teams, but is the most difficult to progress from also having a half decent 4th team.
Pool D England should be the clear favourites, but both Japan and Argentina are teams on upward curves. Not impossible that Tonga could have a hand in deciding things. Either way this is the weaker half of the draw as thing stand so England should have a decent path to the semi finals, but then probably facing one of SA, France or NZ.

Unless there a bunch of unexpected results or serious shifts in the relative strength of sides (unlikely to be too wild) noones getting a soft ride, and as SA showed last time having one tough opponent in the groups isnt a bad thing, it also means you get to avoid them in the knockouts.


Pool A
New Zealand 3
France 4
Italy 14
America 1 (TT’s prediction of USA) 16
Africa 1 (TT’s prediction of Namibia) 24

Pool B
South Africa 1
Ireland 5
Scotland 7
Asia/Pacific 1 (TT’s prediction of Samoa) 15
Europe 2 (TT’s prediction of Spain) 17

Pool C
Wales 9
Australia 6
Fiji 11
Europe 1 (TT’s prediction of Georgia) 12
Final Qualifier Winner (Take your pick - Canada, Romania, Portugal, Russia Hong Kong)

Pool D
England 2
Japan 10
Argentina 8
Oceania 1 (TT’s prediction of Tonga) 13
Americas 2 (TT’s prediction of Uruguay) 18


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Post by RiscaGame Tue 15 Dec 2020, 12:28 pm

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:To be fair even WOL acknowledge the lucky switch in timing...

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/how-rugby-world-cup-2023-19456566

At least the Wail have a reason to take an interest in Wales’ draw. I’d have thought Madge might’ve had a passing interest in his own country, but silly me.

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Post by No9 Wed 16 Dec 2020, 7:01 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
MichaelT wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
MichaelT wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:FFS drawn with Aus and Fiji for the third world cup in a row!

Was it not 2007 as well?

Really shows the limits of the rugby world cup doesnt it.

Pools A and B look tasty. Pool C too familiar and not that interesting because of the above. Pool D looks easy for England but that could mean nothing really.

Make it four then, thanks!

Thinking about it, Ireland beat Aus in 2011 group stage, so not 4 in a row.

Ireland V Scotland rematch will be tasty as both teams expected to beat Japan last year. They dont have that now with South Africa in the group.

We were grouped with SA that year, with Fiji, Samoa and Namibia. All the other years it's been Aus and Fiji. I really hoped for something different this time.

May not be 4 in a row, but how about this...

Last time RWC was in France 2007

- Wales was in the pool with Australia and Fiji
- Welsh coach previous role was Scarlets Coach
- Fiji knocked out Wales

Does this sound familiar... the planets are aligning.

Fingers crossed, when we finish 5th again in the 6 Nations, the WRU will wake up and get shot of him.

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Post by majesticimperialman Wed 16 Dec 2020, 7:50 pm

RiscaGame wrote:
BigTrevsbigmac wrote:To be fair even WOL acknowledge the lucky switch in timing...

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/how-rugby-world-cup-2023-19456566

At least the Wail have a reason to take an interest in Wales’ draw. I’d have thought Madge might’ve had a passing interest in his own country, but silly me.

I would just like to point out when i made my first comment about Wales can count them selve lucky to be seede for the 2023 rugby world cup i was not having a dig at Wales as you seem to think i was.

Regards you comment about me taking a passing interest in my own country. My point was that at the Rugby world cup England was ranked 2nd
in the World rankings.One year on and England are still ranked 2nd in the world rankings. Wales was ranked 4th in the world ranking. one year on they are now 9th in the world rankings.

So my point is " IFF" the draw was made now and not at the start of the year Wales would not  be a seeded side.  By the time the 2023 Rugby world cup comes around Wales may/ may i have climbed back up to 4th in the world Rankings, ( the word is maybe) but you never know 3 years ia a long time in rugby. Hug

majesticimperialman

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 17 Dec 2020, 8:11 am

Theres a great book you should read maj. It's called the boy who cried wolf.

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