The v2 Forum
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Ireland v France

+24
thebandwagonsociety
Pete330v2
bsando
westisbest
Maine man
Duty281
hugehandoff
Heaf
Soul Requiem
lostinwales
GeordieFalcon
majesticimperialman
The Oracle
TightHEAD
No 7&1/2
mikey_dragon
theslosty
eirebilly
LeinsterFan4life
Collapse2005
doctor_grey
Gooseberry
Hazel Sapling
profitius
28 posters

Page 2 of 3 Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

Go down

Ireland v France - Page 2 Empty Ireland v France

Post by profitius Fri 12 Feb 2021, 4:16 pm

First topic message reminder :

Ireland

15. Hugo Keenan (Leinster/UCD) 7 caps

14. Keith Earls (Munster/Young Munster) 89 caps
13. Garry Ringrose (Leinster/UCD) 31 caps
12. Robbie Henshaw (Leinster/Buccaneers) 48 caps
11. James Lowe (Leinster) 3 caps
10. Billy Burns (Ulster) 4 caps
9. Jamison Gibson Park (Leinster) 6 caps
1. Cian Healy (Leinster/Clontarf) 105 caps

2. Rob Herring (Ulster/Ballynahinch) 17 caps
3. Andrew Porter (Leinster/UCD) 33 caps
4. Tadhg Beirne (Munster/Lansdowne) 18 caps
5. Iain Henderson (Ulster/Academy) 59 caps CAPTAIN
6. Rhys Ruddock (Leinster/St Mary’s College) 26 caps
7. Josh van der Flier (Leinster/UCD) 29 caps
8. CJ Stander (Munster/Shannon) 47 caps
Replacements

16. Ronan Kelleher (Leinster/Lansdowne) 7 caps

17. Ed Byrne (Leinster/UCD) 3 caps
18. Tadhg Furlong (Leinster/Clontarf) 45 caps
19. Ultan Dillane (Connacht/Corinthians) 17 caps
20. Will Connors (Leinster/UCD) 6 caps
21. Craig Casey (Munster/Shannon) uncapped
22. Ross Byrne (Leinster/UCD) 11 caps
23. Jordan Larmour (Leinster/St Mary’s College) 25 caps


France

15. Brice Dulin
14. Damien Penaud
13. Arthur Vincent
12. Gael Fickou
11. Gabin Villiere
10. Matthieu Jalibert
9. Antoine Dupont

1. Cyril Baille
2. Julien Marchand
3. Mohamed Haouas
4. Bernard Le Roux
5. Paul Willemse
6. Anthony Jelonch
7. Charles Ollivon
8. Grégory Alldritt

Replacements: Pierre Bourgarit, Hassane Kolingar, Uini Atonio, Romain Taofifénua, Dylan Cretin, Baptiste Serin, Anthony Bouthier, Teddy Thomas
profitius
profitius

Posts : 4600
Join date : 2012-01-25

Back to top Go down


Ireland v France - Page 2 Empty Re: Ireland v France

Post by eirebilly Sun 14 Feb 2021, 4:54 pm

Words fail me. That was a dire attacking performance from Ireland given the amount of possession that had in the first half, even when a man up. Absolutely going backwards at a rate of knots.

France were actually poor today i felt and that is the only reason Ireland stayed so close.
eirebilly
eirebilly

Posts : 24719
Join date : 2011-02-09
Age : 50
Location : Holland

Back to top Go down

Ireland v France - Page 2 Empty Re: Ireland v France

Post by TightHEAD Sun 14 Feb 2021, 4:55 pm

Well that was dull as dishwater.

TightHEAD
TightHEAD

Posts : 6192
Join date : 2014-09-25
Age : 59
Location : Brexit Island.

Back to top Go down

Ireland v France - Page 2 Empty Re: Ireland v France

Post by Maine man Sun 14 Feb 2021, 4:57 pm

Fully deserved victory for France. In all honesty, I think Ireland will beat Italy and that will lose the rest. If that happens, then Farrell needs to go.

Maine man

Posts : 333
Join date : 2016-07-08

Back to top Go down

Ireland v France - Page 2 Empty Re: Ireland v France

Post by westisbest Sun 14 Feb 2021, 5:00 pm

Disappointing again from Ireland.
France are a great side and look very strong.

Few changes for Italy.

westisbest

Posts : 7696
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Bournemouth

Back to top Go down

Ireland v France - Page 2 Empty Re: Ireland v France

Post by Gooseberry Sun 14 Feb 2021, 5:02 pm

Get the feeling you could stuff Irelands pants with 20 euro notes in a brothel and theyd still struggle to score. Should've buried France in the first 20 minutes. Plenty of good possession, good set piece, good defence, decent kicking ...just closing out that territory to points letting them down again.

Incredibly the first time they've lost their opening two 6 nations games, and its not the worst Ireland side theres been in that time. Overall they've been better than Wales, but the wins are what matters in the end.

Frances tournament to lose.

Gooseberry

Posts : 8056
Join date : 2015-02-11

Back to top Go down

Ireland v France - Page 2 Empty Re: Ireland v France

Post by bsando Sun 14 Feb 2021, 5:08 pm

Commiserations Irish fans, thought they might be able to draw a penalty at the end there but France looked well drilled in defence. Italy next will be a good opportunity to try and find some creativity in that backline to compliment the big forward carriers.

France backrow was very impressive today, especially Aldritt and Olivon and Marchand was everywhere. Irish attack looked a little easy to defend at times, not too much creativity from Burns and probably too much kicking from the back three.

Ireland lacked that edginess they usually have in their forwards at times. Connors was brilliant when he came on but Ruddock and Stander had quiet games. Still, Ireland could have won it so not a poor performance by any means.

bsando

Posts : 3482
Join date : 2011-11-27
Age : 32
Location : London

Back to top Go down

Ireland v France - Page 2 Empty Re: Ireland v France

Post by majesticimperialman Sun 14 Feb 2021, 5:12 pm

Good win for France held out to the last minute.

Very bad luck Ireland.

France- Wales top 2 teams now who will be crowned champions

majesticimperialman

Posts : 5703
Join date : 2011-02-11

Back to top Go down

Ireland v France - Page 2 Empty Re: Ireland v France

Post by mikey_dragon Sun 14 Feb 2021, 5:15 pm

France certainly did well to withstand all that early pressure (which Ireland are good at doing) and get themselves out of there. The way they glide through opposition and put in nice offloads is great to watch.

Unlucky Ireland, I think you’ll just continue to decline with Farrell. It’s not been too bad but looks as if it could get worse.

mikey_dragon

Posts : 12767
Join date : 2015-07-25

Back to top Go down

Ireland v France - Page 2 Empty Re: Ireland v France

Post by doctor_grey Sun 14 Feb 2021, 5:23 pm

An Irish mate just texted me saying he thinks old Farrell is a sleeper agent....

doctor_grey

Posts : 9616
Join date : 2011-04-30

Back to top Go down

Ireland v France - Page 2 Empty Re: Ireland v France

Post by theslosty Sun 14 Feb 2021, 5:24 pm

Really flat 2nd half from Ireland. OK only 2 points in it in the end but that was only the result of a fluky try. Don't think France were flawless either.

There is a long list of injuries, all of the following probably make the 1st choice 23: Kilcoyne, Ryan, POM, Leavy, Doris, Murray, Sexton, Carbery, Aki, Stockdale but the attack looked so devoid of ideas other than shovel it to Ringrose and hope for the best. Forwards did reasonably well and early signs indicate POC has improved the lineout but you've got to wonder what Mike Catt is trying to do with the attack.
theslosty
theslosty

Posts : 1037
Join date : 2012-05-01
Location : Belfast

Back to top Go down

Ireland v France - Page 2 Empty Re: Ireland v France

Post by Collapse2005 Sun 14 Feb 2021, 6:01 pm

Fair win from France, just too hot to handle but not terrible from our boys.

Collapse2005

Posts : 5506
Join date : 2017-08-24

Back to top Go down

Ireland v France - Page 2 Empty Re: Ireland v France

Post by hugehandoff Sun 14 Feb 2021, 6:01 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:
hugehandoff wrote:Anyone else finding the ref annoying with all his Franglais?

No. Should be more refs doing it. Clearly not fluent but will improve. Should be doing the same for Italy.

but we are English old boy and this is our game....surely the international language should suffice?

Seriously of course it is a good thing, but I just found him to be quite grating.

As for the match......low on skill even if the intent was there sometimes. Poor execution. Scotland can beat both sides.

hugehandoff

Posts : 1079
Join date : 2011-06-02
Location : London

Back to top Go down

Ireland v France - Page 2 Empty Re: Ireland v France

Post by Collapse2005 Sun 14 Feb 2021, 6:02 pm

doctor_grey wrote:An Irish mate just texted me saying he thinks old Farrell is a sleeper agent....

Nah he just hasnt made it happen yet

Collapse2005

Posts : 5506
Join date : 2017-08-24

Back to top Go down

Ireland v France - Page 2 Empty Re: Ireland v France

Post by Collapse2005 Sun 14 Feb 2021, 7:20 pm

Did France just win the tournament?

https://youtu.be/5XbKaxJnJl4

Messing aside, good luck to them they are a good side.

Collapse2005

Posts : 5506
Join date : 2017-08-24

Back to top Go down

Ireland v France - Page 2 Empty Re: Ireland v France

Post by LeinsterFan4life Sun 14 Feb 2021, 7:31 pm

I was baffled at the Mike Catt appointment at first, but now it just seems comical when you look t how much Italy's attack has improved since he left.

LeinsterFan4life

Posts : 5552
Join date : 2012-03-13
Age : 31
Location : Meath

Blanko likes this post

Back to top Go down

Ireland v France - Page 2 Empty Re: Ireland v France

Post by profitius Sun 14 Feb 2021, 10:09 pm

TightHEAD wrote:Well that was dull as dishwater.


Yup. At least under schmidt it was effective. Now it's full and ineffective. I'm not too bothered by the result. I'm almost at the 'hoping they lose' stage now. If it means a new coaching setup.


The main positive from the game was the set piece. The lineout looks much better now since POC came on board a few weeks ago. But that also highlights how bad the last lineout coach was, Easterby I think. Easterby is in charge of defence now...


The passing was atrocious. The skill level between backlines is massive.
profitius
profitius

Posts : 4600
Join date : 2012-01-25

Maine man likes this post

Back to top Go down

Ireland v France - Page 2 Empty Re: Ireland v France

Post by eirebilly Mon 15 Feb 2021, 8:18 am

I would not be at the stage where I want Ireland to lose but it really is time for Ireland to move on from Farrell before too much damage is done. I still rate him highly as a defense coach, just not as a head coach just yet. I do believe he has the makings of a head coach at some stage though.
eirebilly
eirebilly

Posts : 24719
Join date : 2011-02-09
Age : 50
Location : Holland

Back to top Go down

Ireland v France - Page 2 Empty Re: Ireland v France

Post by Pete330v2 Mon 15 Feb 2021, 9:25 am

eirebilly wrote:I would not be at the stage where I want Ireland to lose but it really is time for Ireland to move on from Farrell before too much damage is done. I still rate him highly as a defense coach, just not as a head coach just yet. I do believe he has the makings of a head coach at some stage though.

Agreed, I'm never one for calling for coaches to go but Farrell should go before he does untold damage and we end up a distant dot in the world rankings.
When Schmidtball was well worked out and Ireland failed to evolve it was time to change the formula with fresh ingredients but it never happened. The gig was offered from within and we're stuck in the same turgid loop, spiraling downwards. Mike Catt is the head I would call for the most mind you, we may as well have no script at all, for that matter I'm not sure there even is one. There were a few bright glimmers yesterday but the chances they created went begging due to a blend of French interference and Irish misfortunes and errors.

That all being said, we should have beaten Wales in Wales, we probably would have with 15 players. We nearly beat the best, most in-form French team in years who got away by the skin of their teeth. Yes we owed a try to fortitude but that can be said of a lot of scores. Points are points. But for the moments of misfortune we could be singing a different song but with the current style of play, I'm not sure 2 wins would make me feel very different about Farrell and Catt.

Time will tell.

Pete330v2

Posts : 4090
Join date : 2012-05-04

Back to top Go down

Ireland v France - Page 2 Empty Re: Ireland v France

Post by lostinwales Mon 15 Feb 2021, 9:59 am

When Farrell was a coach with England at the 2015 RWC I remember seeing an article on an interview with him. Now the words he used were just fantastic. Screamed 'leader of men' etc. But the thing that struck me is that he does the words very well, but I am not sure how well he actually backs those ups with choices and actions.

lostinwales
lostinwales
lostinwales

Posts : 11336
Join date : 2011-06-09
Location : Out of Wales :)

Back to top Go down

Ireland v France - Page 2 Empty Re: Ireland v France

Post by eirebilly Mon 15 Feb 2021, 2:26 pm

Ireland have a wealth of talent right now, young talent coming through as well. I would say that Ireland are about a year behind on the development of that talent. I simply do not see Farrell as being that man to take and lead that talent onwards. I have always been a very big fan of Vern Cotter, in fact i still am and feel that he was an excellent head coach who surrounded himself with excellent coaches. This is what Ireland need.

The one thing i always thought that Schmidt did brilliantly above all else was develop Irish rugby at grass routes, its paid off for Leinster and is paying off for Ireland but they need a far more dynamic set of coaches. There is no denying the impact POC has had on Ireland in the line out, its been fantastic but we need more like that.

Not sure if Leinster would let Cullen and Lancaster go but they would be a perfect fit.
eirebilly
eirebilly

Posts : 24719
Join date : 2011-02-09
Age : 50
Location : Holland

Back to top Go down

Ireland v France - Page 2 Empty Re: Ireland v France

Post by theslosty Mon 15 Feb 2021, 3:08 pm

I look at our current crop of players, and bear in mind yesterday I counted 9 or 10 injured that would make a 1st choice 23, and would say we should be better than Scotland and Wales but we're a little bit behind England and France. So far that is how we've performed under Farrell so I'm not going to throw the toys out of the pram. Of course I want to see us do more and even just a more watchable style of play is long overdue. If we lose to Scotland next month then I'll change my mind.
theslosty
theslosty

Posts : 1037
Join date : 2012-05-01
Location : Belfast

Back to top Go down

Ireland v France - Page 2 Empty Re: Ireland v France

Post by thebandwagonsociety Mon 15 Feb 2021, 6:43 pm

eirebilly wrote:Ireland have a wealth of talent right now, young talent coming through as well. I would say that Ireland are about a year behind on the development of that talent. I simply do not see Farrell as being that man to take and lead that talent onwards. I have always been a very big fan of Vern Cotter, in fact i still am and feel that he was an excellent head coach who surrounded himself with excellent coaches. This is what Ireland need.

The one thing i always thought that Schmidt did brilliantly above all else was develop Irish rugby at grass routes, its paid off for Leinster and is paying off for Ireland but they need a far more dynamic set of coaches. There is no denying the impact POC has had on Ireland in the line out, its been fantastic but we need more like that.

Not sure if Leinster would let Cullen and Lancaster go but they would be a perfect fit.

Can't be a another Leinster connected coach. Even Farrell has struggled and he was just an assistant under a former leinster coach (and was down in munster camps for a while but that never gave him a red-bias in the eyes of the masses).

Is it too early for ROG?

thebandwagonsociety

Posts : 2607
Join date : 2011-06-02

Back to top Go down

Ireland v France - Page 2 Empty Re: Ireland v France

Post by Maine man Mon 15 Feb 2021, 6:51 pm

Personally I'd like Pat Lam.

Maine man

Posts : 333
Join date : 2016-07-08

Back to top Go down

Ireland v France - Page 2 Empty Re: Ireland v France

Post by doctor_grey Mon 15 Feb 2021, 8:20 pm

thebandwagonsociety wrote:
eirebilly wrote:Ireland have a wealth of talent right now, young talent coming through as well. I would say that Ireland are about a year behind on the development of that talent. I simply do not see Farrell as being that man to take and lead that talent onwards. I have always been a very big fan of Vern Cotter, in fact i still am and feel that he was an excellent head coach who surrounded himself with excellent coaches. This is what Ireland need.

The one thing i always thought that Schmidt did brilliantly above all else was develop Irish rugby at grass routes, its paid off for Leinster and is paying off for Ireland but they need a far more dynamic set of coaches. There is no denying the impact POC has had on Ireland in the line out, its been fantastic but we need more like that.

Not sure if Leinster would let Cullen and Lancaster go but they would be a perfect fit.

Can't be a another Leinster connected coach. Even Farrell has struggled and he was just an assistant under a former leinster coach (and was down in munster camps for a while but that never gave him a red-bias in the eyes of the masses).

Is it too early for ROG?
as defence coach?????

doctor_grey

Posts : 9616
Join date : 2011-04-30

Back to top Go down

Ireland v France - Page 2 Empty Re: Ireland v France

Post by Brendan Mon 15 Feb 2021, 9:59 pm

I think we need to sort our 9 and 10.  For ages Murrary and Sexton did alot to get us out of trouble or make something happen.  They were off forum and Ireland suffered.  No one has stepped up to replace them. Not sure what Marmion did to be dropped but he always was solid when he played.

Wales have two wins we have none yet would we take the Wales performances over what we have done.  Farrell isn't Joe and players need to learn how not to be robots but think for themselves after Joe's way of playing.

I think Ross Byrne has not kicked on as hoped.  We need to deciede do we bring in Carty for his skill and running game or do we go with Harry or Ben as the future.  Neither of the two younger players are getting first team games nor are they use to pressure games.  They need both to succeed at international.  Neither are use to being behind a weaker pack so will struggle with the lesser time

If we do want to go with Harry and Ben they must be starting for their Province not back up to Sexton and JJ. As long as they are back up they can't progress to the level needed.  Also we can't make them be Sexton like we have tried to do with Burns, Bryne and Carty rather then play to their streghts.

Scotland us and SA will be battling it out for two spots. Russel will be 31 and at his peak while Hastings will be a good understudy also first choice for his club. Wales will have Llyod and Sbeedy. England will have Ford and Smith. But we will still have Sexton. Sexton won't make the WC and if he does then Ireland will repeat their last result they got in a French WC because he is currently the worse performing fly-half of the 4 home nations.  Each world cup we go into it with no real back up at 10. This results in losing games because we don't have back ups who have the experience of running teams or aren't given enough caps before hand.

Brendan

Posts : 3993
Join date : 2012-04-08
Location : Cork

Back to top Go down

Ireland v France - Page 2 Empty Re: Ireland v France

Post by Pete330v2 Tue 16 Feb 2021, 9:18 am

We have a few good 9s, JGP, Marmion, McGrath and Cooney can all do a decent job in green while Casey, if he maintains his trajectory will be the next big thing. The 10 situation is a little more complicated or simple depending on what direction you view it from. On the complicated side there's been no exposure and no obvious succession plan to integrate the next best 10 behind Sexton. Burns, Burn and Carty have all had chances and nobody has impressed yet but here's the thing. How can you impress when the vast majority of your chances come in the form of a few minutes off the bench in games that are either already won or chasing games that are hard not to lose. Healy and H Byrne look to be the up and coming 'next in lines' but when will they feature. I don't rate Healy I'm afraid, he's been good but can be flakey in my opinion. A few clutch kicks doesn't make a great outhalf and I've seen him very easily flustered but he's still only a cub. Harry Byrne looks excellent and has all the required facets but hasn't really been tested in an arena where he isn't behind a well drilled Leinster pack.
The other direction to view the situation is simple, unless we're willing to take huge risks and back decisions the IRFU goose is royally cooked. Unfortunately, there's been no change to the conservative approach of sticking with the same tired old formula and the same tired old guard. It's high time there was a bit of gambling done.
There is of course one very talented, capped Irish outhalf more than worthy of taking the 10 shirt by the scruff but I won't open that can of worms in case the hashtag army decend upon me. Smile Smile

Pete330v2

Posts : 4090
Join date : 2012-05-04

Back to top Go down

Ireland v France - Page 2 Empty Re: Ireland v France

Post by Maine man Tue 16 Feb 2021, 10:13 am

I know it wouldn't happen, but this 6 nations would have been perfect for Jackson to be selected. No crowds, no gatherings allowed outside the grounds. Protests would have been at a minimal. Of course you'd have your hashtag army going ballistic. But as I said, it wouldn't happen anyway.

Maine man

Posts : 333
Join date : 2016-07-08

Back to top Go down

Ireland v France - Page 2 Empty Re: Ireland v France

Post by Pete330v2 Tue 16 Feb 2021, 10:29 am

Maine man wrote:I know it wouldn't happen, but this 6 nations would have been perfect for Jackson to be selected. No crowds, no gatherings allowed outside the grounds. Protests would have been at a minimal. Of course you'd have your hashtag army going ballistic. But as I said, it wouldn't happen anyway.

The same said army were up in arms when he was signed for London Irish, they seem to have forgotten their 'moral stance' now he's performing so well for them.
I'm not sure Jackson would even want to return to Ireland anyway, that ship has sailed but it shows how the IRFU put all their eggs in one basket only to throw it out leaving them without any eggs or even a basket. Now we've to rely on a virtual pensioner with no true viable backup.
Bring on Byrne the younger I say, at least for some part of the Italy match. See what he does on the big stage.

Pete330v2

Posts : 4090
Join date : 2012-05-04

Back to top Go down

Ireland v France - Page 2 Empty Re: Ireland v France

Post by Recwatcher16 Tue 16 Feb 2021, 11:48 am

How does a youngster, who is not first pick for Leinster, qualify for first selection for Ireland? seems a strange logic and a little desperate.
No doubt Catt will take the blame but Ireland don't have the players with the same skill and pace as France or NZ - Schmidt knew that and adopted a prescriptive team possession approach, which got found out when it became far more difficult to seal off the rucks and generate quick ball.
Ireland desperately need a second playmaker but there are no obvious choices.

Recwatcher16

Posts : 542
Join date : 2016-02-15

Back to top Go down

Ireland v France - Page 2 Empty Re: Ireland v France

Post by Pete330v2 Tue 16 Feb 2021, 12:04 pm

Recwatcher16 wrote:How does a youngster, who is not first pick for Leinster, qualify for first selection for Ireland? seems a strange logic and a little desperate.
No doubt Catt will take the blame but Ireland don't have the players with the same skill and pace as France or NZ - Schmidt knew that and adopted a prescriptive team possession approach, which got found out when it became far more difficult to seal off the rucks and generate quick ball.
Ireland desperately need a second playmaker but there are no obvious choices.

Because he's the best of the rest. He's looks to be a better option than his big brother and he's definately (IMO) better than any of the other alternatives. He's been selected to start for Leinster on a number of occasions leaving his big brother on the bench and was selected in a European game only for a warmup injury to out an end to that. Carty is perhaps the only other Irish 10 that would come close but Harry Byrne looks very much like the real deal. I'm an Ulster fan and also a big fan of Billy Burns and I do think he'll be around the Irish camp for some time to come but he's not, on current form/ability the answer. Likewise Murray or JGP is not the answer going forward at 9. Casey looks supreme and will be exposed to international rugby sooner rather than later, probably in the Italy game. He's just a youngster too but like Byrne, if he's good enough he's old enough.
I know O'Driscoll is a different kettle of fish but he was selected for Ireland before playing for Leinster at all. If the player is good enough, get him in there because what's there right now is not.

Ireland have the pack to performing so well now it's criminal not to light a blue touch paper in the backs. Goodbye Earls, hello Larmour etc.

Of course Carberry can't be forgotten and is currently upping his training load but if the guy is made of glass he's not going to do any good from a physio's bench. I know that's far too pessimistic and I hope his injury woes are behind him, I hope he proves my gut feelings wrong.

Pete330v2

Posts : 4090
Join date : 2012-05-04

Back to top Go down

Ireland v France - Page 2 Empty Re: Ireland v France

Post by theslosty Tue 16 Feb 2021, 12:17 pm

I haven't really seen much of Harry Byrne but I have no idea if he's good enough, Leinster walk nearly all their Pro14 games so he's not been remotely tested. Could possibly be open to him appearing vs Italy but throwing him in against England or Scotland before he's even played a European Cup game sounds pretty mad. Even PJ had played some big Heineken Cup games for Ulster before his debut and he still had a nightmare vs Scotland in 2013.

I still think Carty is the best alternative to Sexton atm however there is a slight question mark over his goalkicking which is where having Cooney at 9 would be nice. Carty did reasonably well in his chances under Schmidt but it appears Farrell is much less of a fan. I'm still praying that Carbery gets back playing next season as he is surely our best hope for 2023.

Re Earls vs Larmour, personally I feel Larmour is better at 15 than the wing, but either way I don't think it would make much difference. Earls never seems to get any good space to work in. Lowe and Stockdale have fared a bit better at 11 but I think left wings generally score more tries as they receive right handed passes.
theslosty
theslosty

Posts : 1037
Join date : 2012-05-01
Location : Belfast

Back to top Go down

Ireland v France - Page 2 Empty Re: Ireland v France

Post by Pete330v2 Tue 16 Feb 2021, 12:24 pm

Paddy Jackson was thrown in at the deep end for Ulster in the HC final which isn't far off the international pace, if at all. Like I said, Leinster had put their trust in Byrne Jr for Europe only for an injury to put pay to that. England and Scotland would be games not worth risking but a cameo against Italy wouldn't have hurt.
As it stands he and Casey have returned to their respective provinces anyway. Farrell won't be taking chances it seems and wants to win the remaining games obviously. It can definately be done.

Pete330v2

Posts : 4090
Join date : 2012-05-04

Back to top Go down

Ireland v France - Page 2 Empty Re: Ireland v France

Post by TightHEAD Tue 16 Feb 2021, 12:53 pm

Positive Covid test in the French Camp.
TightHEAD
TightHEAD

Posts : 6192
Join date : 2014-09-25
Age : 59
Location : Brexit Island.

Back to top Go down

Ireland v France - Page 2 Empty Re: Ireland v France

Post by TightHEAD Tue 16 Feb 2021, 12:55 pm

Pete330v2 wrote:Paddy Jackson was thrown in at the deep end for Ulster in the HC final which isn't far off the international pace.

I think the Champions Cup is better rugby all round than the current international game.

Players and coaches too scared to play proper rugby these days.
TightHEAD
TightHEAD

Posts : 6192
Join date : 2014-09-25
Age : 59
Location : Brexit Island.

Back to top Go down

Ireland v France - Page 2 Empty Re: Ireland v France

Post by Pete330v2 Tue 16 Feb 2021, 1:01 pm

TightHEAD wrote:
Pete330v2 wrote:Paddy Jackson was thrown in at the deep end for Ulster in the HC final which isn't far off the international pace.

I think the Champions Cup is better rugby all round than the current international game.

Players and coaches too scared to play proper rugby these days.

After watching the 6 nations this year you could probably say the same about international rugby to be honest.

Pete330v2

Posts : 4090
Join date : 2012-05-04

Back to top Go down

Ireland v France - Page 2 Empty Re: Ireland v France

Post by Recwatcher16 Tue 16 Feb 2021, 1:08 pm

Pete330v2 wrote:
Recwatcher16 wrote:How does a youngster, who is not first pick for Leinster, qualify for first selection for Ireland? seems a strange logic and a little desperate.
No doubt Catt will take the blame but Ireland don't have the players with the same skill and pace as France or NZ - Schmidt knew that and adopted a prescriptive team possession approach, which got found out when it became far more difficult to seal off the rucks and generate quick ball.
Ireland desperately need a second playmaker but there are no obvious choices.

Because he's the best of the rest. He's looks to be a better option than his big brother and he's definately (IMO) better than any of the other alternatives. He's been selected to start for Leinster on a number of occasions leaving his big brother on the bench and was selected in a European game only for a warmup injury to out an end to that. Carty is perhaps the only other Irish 10 that would come close but Harry Byrne looks very much like the real deal. I'm an Ulster fan and also a big fan of Billy Burns and I do think he'll be around the Irish camp for some time to come but he's not, on current form/ability the answer. Likewise Murray or JGP is not the answer going forward at 9. Casey looks supreme and will be exposed to international rugby sooner rather than later, probably in the Italy game. He's just a youngster too but like Byrne, if he's good enough he's old enough.
I know O'Driscoll is a different kettle of fish but he was selected for Ireland before playing for Leinster at all. If the player is good enough, get him in there because what's there right now is not.

Ireland have the pack to performing so well now it's criminal not to light a blue touch paper in the backs. Goodbye Earls, hello Larmour etc.

Of course Carberry can't be forgotten and is currently upping his training load but if the guy is made of glass he's not going to do any good from a physio's bench. I know that's far too pessimistic and I hope his injury woes are behind him, I hope he proves my gut feelings wrong.

Fair enough, although from the outside it looks like the bottleneck of three franchises (Connacht don't seem to count) makes it difficult as provinces invest in players and so can't drop them when there apparently 'better' test prospects in their squads. It's a strange conundrum.

Recwatcher16

Posts : 542
Join date : 2016-02-15

Back to top Go down

Ireland v France - Page 2 Empty Re: Ireland v France

Post by theslosty Tue 16 Feb 2021, 1:52 pm

4 provinces just isn't enough atm, yes Wales have 4 regions and Scotland only 2 sides but they don't seem to produce the same quantity of players and they also don't prohibit their Test players from going abroad. It's a tricky balance but maybe we could bring in a 50 cap rule or consider London Irish as a 5th province, although I'm not sure how financially viable that is.
theslosty
theslosty

Posts : 1037
Join date : 2012-05-01
Location : Belfast

Back to top Go down

Ireland v France - Page 2 Empty Re: Ireland v France

Post by lostinwales Tue 16 Feb 2021, 2:17 pm

theslosty wrote:4 provinces just isn't enough atm, yes Wales have 4 regions and Scotland only 2 sides but they don't seem to produce the same quantity of players and they also don't prohibit their Test players from going abroad. It's a tricky balance but maybe we could bring in a 50 cap rule or consider London Irish as a 5th province, although I'm not sure how financially viable that is.

Problem for you is that London Irish should probably be named London ageing SH superstars and future Bath players.

lostinwales
lostinwales
lostinwales

Posts : 11336
Join date : 2011-06-09
Location : Out of Wales :)

Back to top Go down

Ireland v France - Page 2 Empty Re: Ireland v France

Post by Pete330v2 Tue 16 Feb 2021, 2:58 pm

I think the 4 provinces should be more than enough if the succession is managed properly.
The IRFU put all their eggs in one basket with Jackson and when they felt they had to banish him the realisation suddenly hit them that there hadn't been anyone else pushing for international honours. Not a huge problem when you had 2 very capable 10s backed up by also rans but now they had 1 capable 10 who got broken a lot.
I don't thin casting the net wide or changing the rules regarding players playing abroad. The provinces would be decimated if the star players could earn big bucks in France and Japan while still getting the international wages. The rules has, for the large part, worked here but the management of what that produced and retained has not. We simply shouldn't be looking to the over 30s to pull us out of holes at the expense of holding the youth back. It's a difficult juggling act but I had not wanted to see certain players in the Ireland squad any more due to age and thought the Farrell years would bring change. No sign of change yet.

Pete330v2

Posts : 4090
Join date : 2012-05-04

Back to top Go down

Ireland v France - Page 2 Empty Re: Ireland v France

Post by thebandwagonsociety Tue 16 Feb 2021, 3:58 pm

I'm not sure it matters which one of the Byrnes get the role of the understudy, so far Leinster and Ireland haven't been able to figure out a successful way to give meaningful minutes and experience to the Irish 10 and understudy. They've figured out at prop and sometimes at hooker, to go heavy with a 50-30 (or even 45-35) minute split to keep players fresh enough that both are realistic starts at HC and Test levels. Started with Healy & McGrath (a few seasons back), a few hooker combinations (strauss & cronin in the early days) as well as Porter and Furlong (when both are fit) in the current set up. However they mess up the understudy in the approach to outhalf. Both get held back on game time as much as all Test squad players during club. They don't give 50-30 splits in time on the pitch (with the old man having a moan and a tantrum any time he's taken off). The understudy doesn't get the big game experience to build up and is wrapped in cotton wool too often, the 3rd/4th strings get given minutes against poor matchday squads which boosts their profile. So in a way its a mute point whether its R Byrne or H Byrne if the management approach doesn't change.

I do actually like H Byrne a lot and he should end up better than the brother, but I don't think he's there yet. Personally I prefer the style of play from Frawley and it's a pity that management (at both province and test level) seem more obsessed with the brothers rather than giving that lad a proper run at 10.

The last time they couldn't solve this problem, they just moved Carberry to Munster but injuries with him have hobbled that plan. I like Carty as an option now, but a coach that is under pressure doesn't appear to be given any extra time or credits for choosing from out west (there are some great options out there that would put a few in the current 6N squad to shame).

Last season and this season is when to bring in the younger crop and build games in the legs (we all know what we have in the older players). But would a coach actually survive in the Irish set up doing this? I remember a McNeal BTCC driver comment a few months back when he spoke about offering to drive a front runners car for free for the season and instead they picked a driver and paid that lad 150% the salary of the next guy on the grid. The reason being if management pay the big salary and the results don't go their way it's the drivers fault, if management risk it and pick the talented young possibility and the results don't go their way it's the managers job. Farrell is crumbling under pressure already.

thebandwagonsociety

Posts : 2607
Join date : 2011-06-02

Back to top Go down

Ireland v France - Page 2 Empty Re: Ireland v France

Post by profitius Tue 16 Feb 2021, 10:11 pm

The pressure is coming on Farrell now. Some might think that's harsh but here is the case against him.


He was supposed to be a continuation on from Schmidt. Schmidt left ireland on a downward trajectory and Farrell has continued it.


He was never a head coach. He's learning on the job which could be very costly. When the IRFU suddenly announced he was taking over from Schmidt, it came as a surprise to many.


He has the team playing poor attacking rugby after hiring his mate.
It's turgid to watch for fans, outdated AND they're losing.
He is reluctant to give young players a chance. We probably know the team for Italy if everyone is fit.


I mentioned the fans above. At the end of the day sport is about entertainment. I can see on social media that fans are very unhappy and if as expected he picks his strongest team to get a win against Italy then there will be a backlash no matter the result.
profitius
profitius

Posts : 4600
Join date : 2012-01-25

Back to top Go down

Ireland v France - Page 2 Empty Re: Ireland v France

Post by neilthom7 Tue 16 Feb 2021, 10:41 pm

I think Farrel needs to be brave and see what else Ireland has, although I'm sure he wont be.

Here's thing, the rugby world cup is roughly 2 and a half years away so why not start seeing what some of these players have because currently the following players are:
Healy- 33
Rob Herring- 30
CJ Stander- 30
Peter O'mahony- 31
Murray- 31
Sexton- 35
Aki- 30
Earls- 33

In 2 and a half years time are we really saying that those guys are going to still be in our starting squad, even if they are all still playing then I don't think we want to go into a world cup relying on potentially half a team who are in their mid to late 30's by then.
I'm not saying just throw them all out now but start to integrate younger options into the team for bigger matches because when we do play the youngsters inevitably it is v USA or Fiji or whoever and they all play and that doesn't really help expose them to big games or allow them to fit in alongside the players they would actually play with if they were in a World cup game.

neilthom7

Posts : 2548
Join date : 2011-10-26
Age : 33
Location : Belfast

http://www.twitter.com/thomthom1988

westisbest and Maine man like this post

Back to top Go down

Ireland v France - Page 2 Empty Re: Ireland v France

Post by Maine man Wed 17 Feb 2021, 9:10 am

neilthom7 wrote:I think Farrel needs to be brave and see what else Ireland has, although I'm sure he wont be.

Here's thing, the rugby world cup is roughly 2 and a half years away so why not start seeing what some of these players have because currently the following players are:
Healy- 33
Rob Herring- 30
CJ Stander- 30
Peter O'mahony- 31
Murray- 31
Sexton- 35
Aki- 30
Earls- 33

In 2 and a half years time are we really saying that those guys are going to still be in our starting squad, even if they are all still playing then I don't think we want to go into a world cup relying on potentially half a team who are in their mid to late 30's by then.
I'm not saying just throw them all out now but start to integrate younger options into the team for bigger matches because when we do play the youngsters inevitably it is v USA or Fiji or whoever and they all play and that doesn't really help expose them to big games or allow them to fit in alongside the players they would actually play with if they were in a World cup game.

Totally agree. Let's face it. There's a good chance we could lose at least 2 more games. I'd much rather lose blooding some newer players than lose with the same older players. It's all about giving the younger players more game time but I just cant see that happening.

Maine man

Posts : 333
Join date : 2016-07-08

Back to top Go down

Ireland v France - Page 2 Empty Re: Ireland v France

Post by Pete330v2 Wed 17 Feb 2021, 11:16 am

Maine man wrote:
neilthom7 wrote:I think Farrel needs to be brave and see what else Ireland has, although I'm sure he wont be.

Here's thing, the rugby world cup is roughly 2 and a half years away so why not start seeing what some of these players have because currently the following players are:
Healy- 33
Rob Herring- 30
CJ Stander- 30
Peter O'mahony- 31
Murray- 31
Sexton- 35
Aki- 30
Earls- 33

In 2 and a half years time are we really saying that those guys are going to still be in our starting squad, even if they are all still playing then I don't think we want to go into a world cup relying on potentially half a team who are in their mid to late 30's by then.
I'm not saying just throw them all out now but start to integrate younger options into the team for bigger matches because when we do play the youngsters inevitably it is v USA or Fiji or whoever and they all play and that doesn't really help expose them to big games or allow them to fit in alongside the players they would actually play with if they were in a World cup game.

Totally agree. Let's face it. There's a good chance we could lose at least 2 more games. I'd much rather lose blooding some newer players than lose with the same older players. It's all about giving the younger players more game time but I just cant see that happening.

I really did think they would have taken the opportunity this year but the entire workings of the IRFU is as conservative as ever. The excuses for not selecting form players more often than not refer to world cup cycles and age. So this year we still have that long list of those who won't be on the squad at the next World Cup unless they're going to be wheeled out. There have been form players in pivotal positions ignored, there have been players picked purely on past glories and form but one of the biggest crimes to begin with was recruitment from within expected a continuation of an already stale Schmidt era.

I don't claim to know the answers but there's high salaries being paid to those who do yet they clearly don't

Pete330v2

Posts : 4090
Join date : 2012-05-04

Back to top Go down

Ireland v France - Page 2 Empty Re: Ireland v France

Post by eirebilly Fri 19 Feb 2021, 9:46 am

I actually understand Farrell's approach, he is new to the job, learning on the job and wants to win matches. This is the reason why he is sticking with the tried and trusted. Those above him should be reassuring him that his job wont be in jeopardy if he looses games whilst trying to bring young players in and build towards a RWC.

Us fans would be very forgiving if Ireland lose trying to blood younger talent and develop a workable game plan.

My question would be if Farrell is getting the support from above to do this?
eirebilly
eirebilly

Posts : 24719
Join date : 2011-02-09
Age : 50
Location : Holland

Back to top Go down

Ireland v France - Page 2 Empty Re: Ireland v France

Post by geoff999rugby Fri 19 Feb 2021, 10:28 am

To the IRFU the only thing that matters is the next 6Ns.
Long term planning is not considered

Until that mind step changes, there is a ceiling we will never burst through

Also CC are a farce in so far as if its a close call between two players the CC player gets the nod.
The IRFU cant stomach the thought of half the CCs being out of the team because they are not the men in form, as has happened in the recent past.

Work out a formula to give the money direct to the provinces based upon:
a) the % of IQ players coming through the Academies
b) the & of IQ players in the Provinces 1st Team squad
c) Players from each Province in the national coaches senior squad

geoff999rugby

Posts : 4659
Join date : 2012-01-19

Back to top Go down

Ireland v France - Page 2 Empty Re: Ireland v France

Post by eirebilly Sun 21 Feb 2021, 12:43 pm

Not sure if any of ye watched the Edinburgh - Munster game last night but Craig Casey again put his hand up for International selection with another fine performance. Coombes is also coming along very nicely thumbsup
eirebilly
eirebilly

Posts : 24719
Join date : 2011-02-09
Age : 50
Location : Holland

Back to top Go down

Ireland v France - Page 2 Empty Re: Ireland v France

Post by doctor_grey Sun 21 Feb 2021, 6:22 pm

Not sure if you know there is actually a US branch of the Munster Rugby Supporter Club. One of the members of my club here and a good mate, too, is one of the cult, erm club, leaders.  There are a lot of Munstermen in exile over here, and I think they come here to prey on the innocent American women and then stay to procreate their kind.  Many are members of my Rugby club so I get more updates about Munster Rugby than about the President of the United States and Her Majesty, The Queen combined.  

And, before you ask, yes, I know to be careful rucking over with them on the pitch.

https://mrsc-admin.soticcloud.net/branches/usa/

doctor_grey

Posts : 9616
Join date : 2011-04-30

Back to top Go down

Ireland v France - Page 2 Empty Re: Ireland v France

Post by mikey_dragon Thu 25 Feb 2021, 11:31 am

Ireland tweeted this then deleted the tweet.
Team vs Italy
Kilcoyne, Kelleher, Furlong, Henderson, Ryan, Connors, Beirne, Stander, Gibson-Park, Sexton, Lowe, Henshaw, Ringrose, Larmour, Keenan.

Replacements: Herring, Healy, Porter, Baird, Conan, Casey, Burns, Earls.

Connors and Beirne were the wrong way around. Swap them over and it's correct.

mikey_dragon

Posts : 12767
Join date : 2015-07-25

Back to top Go down

Ireland v France - Page 2 Empty Re: Ireland v France

Post by Pete330v2 Thu 25 Feb 2021, 11:38 am

mikey_dragon wrote:Ireland tweeted this then deleted the tweet.
Team vs Italy
Kilcoyne, Kelleher, Furlong, Henderson, Ryan, Connors, Beirne, Stander, Gibson-Park, Sexton, Lowe, Henshaw, Ringrose, Larmour, Keenan.

Replacements: Herring, Healy, Porter, Baird, Conan, Casey, Burns, Earls.

Connors and Beirne were the wrong way around. Swap them over and it's correct.

That's why they deleted it, whoever created the graphic had Connors and Beirne on the wrong sides of the scrum. Amendment on the way.
Let's face it, the graphics guy isn't exactly busy with the same faces being cut and paste in. Hold on, maybe it's him/her that's selecting the squads.

Pete330v2

Posts : 4090
Join date : 2012-05-04

Back to top Go down

Ireland v France - Page 2 Empty Re: Ireland v France

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 2 of 3 Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum