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Scotland v Italy 6N Championship Saturday 20th March 2021

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Post by BigGee Mon 15 Mar 2021, 9:25 am

First topic message reminder :

Scotland v Italy
6N Championship
Saturday 20th March 2021
BT Murrayfield Stadium
Edinburgh
KO 14.15


Well not quite the wooden spoon game, Italy will get that eve if they were to win, but the chance to salvage some pride for both sides.

Italy have had a poor 6N no doubt and have not even managed to be competitive in any of their matches. Even those of us who love their involvement in the tournament and are hoping for them to come good have been struggling a bit with that this year. Will they have anything left in the tank for one last heave against Scotland, the match they always fancy they have a chance in?

Scotland have been their usual frustrating selves this year, but maybe with a difference as their performances do suggest they should be competitive with the top sides in the tournament and yet they have not taken their chances when they have presented themselves and look set for 5th place again, better than Italy but tantalising short of the other sides. Beating Italy well and then having a good crack at France also offers them some shot at a redemption. We would have taken 3 wins at the beginning of the tournament and it is still a possibility, albeit a long shot now.

Scotland, in all likelihood, face two quick turnaround matches now if they game against France goes ahead on the following Friday as is being currently predicted. They also took a battering against Ireland and a few injuries, all of which points to a changed team and some rotation for the Italy game. I would expect some squad reinforcements announced today and a different looking team for next week. maybe something along these lines:


1. Sutherland - hopefully will get subbed off early
2. Cherry - deserves a start and Turner deserves a rest
3. Nel - again, hopefully a shortish stint
4. Gilchrist
5. Skinner
6. Ritchie
7. Watson
8. Fagerson M
9. Steele - Price definitely needs a rest
10. VDW - hard to see any other option really
11. Maitland
12. Johnson
13. Jones H - he really deserves a start
14. VDM
15. Hogg

Subs

Keeble/Bhatti (Bhatti actually did ok on sunday)
Ashman - excellent opportunity to get him capped
Berghan
Craig - debut off the bench
Baylis - if fit or Haining if not
Dobie
Harris
Graham



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Post by tigertattie Thu 18 Mar 2021, 8:48 pm

Stupid day for it.

Scotland are on a 6 day turn around from Ireland to Italy and now it’s a 6 day turn around to France.
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Post by RDW Thu 18 Mar 2021, 8:52 pm

tigertattie wrote:Stupid day for it.

Scotland are on a 6 day turn around from Ireland to Italy and now it’s a 6 day turn around to France.

Aye and the France game has a high attrition rate usually.

Good thing Scott Steele is an established flanker now too!

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Post by Anglobraveheart Thu 18 Mar 2021, 8:59 pm

Well, it's been mooted as this date for a few weeks now, and the consensus on here was that we didn't want a hollow awarded 0-28 victory.
So I think that we just need to crack on with it.
Besides, our new 2nd row pairing will be pretty fresh after their warm up match together, and hopefully Finn will be well rested and recovered!

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Post by Anglobraveheart Thu 18 Mar 2021, 9:00 pm

Oh, and hopefully Wales will batter 7 shades out of them on Saturday evening to help us!

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Post by tigertattie Thu 18 Mar 2021, 10:03 pm

If wales beat them then they’ll stick out the 2nd XV including the undercover cop from Ello Ello. Good moaning

They’ll only deploy the top boys if they have a sniff at the title.
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Post by Highland Shaun Thu 18 Mar 2021, 11:50 pm

Yep been confirmed as RDW told me a few hours ago. But we are still not guaranteed our EPL based players which is ridiculous! Wtf would Mr Dodson and Co agree the fixture without that guarantee!!!???

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Post by RDW Thu 18 Mar 2021, 11:54 pm

So worst case scenario this would be an Edinburgh-Glasgow only 23

1 Kebble
2 Turner
3 Fagerson
4 Gilchrist
5 ? Harley?
6 Ritchie
7 Watson
8 Fagerson

9 Price
10 VDW
11 VDM
12 Johnson
13 Jones
14 Graham
15 ? Hoyland?

Subs - Bhattie, Cherry, Nel, ?, ??, Dobie, ?, ?

Basically, we'd be absolutely shafted.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 19 Mar 2021, 7:06 am

Bit surprised they've given it the go ahead outside the window. I'd imagine a monetary solution with an undisclosed fee will be found in time for players to be released from English clubs.

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Post by bsando Fri 19 Mar 2021, 7:36 am

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p099xn4s

Great interview with Rob Wainwright, a lot of wise words from the former Scotland Captain.

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Post by EST Fri 19 Mar 2021, 9:31 am

RDW wrote:So worst case scenario this would be an Edinburgh-Glasgow only 23

1 Kebble
2 Turner
3 Fagerson
4 Gilchrist
5 ? Harley?
6 Ritchie
7 Watson
8 Fagerson

9 Price
10 VDW
11 VDM
12 Johnson
13 Jones
14 Graham
15 ? Hoyland?

Subs - Bhattie, Cherry, Nel, ?, ??, Dobie, ?, ?

Basically, we'd be absolutely shafted.

That would be brutal, and a hugely disappointing end to a campaign which seemed to offer some promise. I imagine there is a lot of realpolitik going on just now behind the scenes.

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Post by BigGee Fri 19 Mar 2021, 9:38 am

Hastings will be back by next week as well. He is free to play for Glasgow this Sunday

I am sure this will get sorted out though, it would make a mockery of the tournament if not

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Post by EST Fri 19 Mar 2021, 10:18 am

BigGee wrote:Hastings will be back by next week as well. He is free to play for Glasgow this Sunday

I am sure this will get sorted out though, it would make a mockery of the tournament if not

Agreed, there is too much at stake for this not to get sorted.  I'm sure the Prem clubs will come to a financial agreement, which you would imagine Dodson is pushing hard for FFR to pay for.

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Post by RDW Fri 19 Mar 2021, 10:30 am

I'm less confident it will be sorted - I can see us being completely shafted by this. Rumblings of PRL having already rejected the deal.

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Post by EST Fri 19 Mar 2021, 10:44 am

Hope you are wrong and it's just brinksmanship by the PRL. I suppose from their perspective it sets a precedent.

If it does come to pass we will have been royally shafted (which we voluntarily signed up for).

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Post by RDW Fri 19 Mar 2021, 11:01 am

Correct me if I'm wrong but have the AP ever sanctioned releasing players? I honestly can't remember a time that they ever have.

As you say EST they don't want to set a precedent.

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Post by EST Fri 19 Mar 2021, 11:11 am

I don't know to be honest, I can't think of an occasion that comes to mind. I'm hopeful, given the extraordinary situation we find ourselves in, that a resolution is still possible.

There are serious questions to be asked about the tournament organisers regardless of what happens; why wasn't a solution to missed games baked into the rules from the outset? Arbitration for when/if this situation came to pass? Rugby governance showing itself to be amateur at best - plus ca change.

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Post by Hazel Sapling Fri 19 Mar 2021, 11:17 am

RDW wrote:So worst case scenario this would be an Edinburgh-Glasgow only 23

So the good news is we would have Russell. Are Sarries under the Premiership guidelines being in the Championship?

The bad news is that Bhatti is at Bath so the spare loosehead would be....McCallum maybe as Alex Allan is crocked? Grahamslaw?

The GP won't want to hand over players without getting theirs. As long as the money comes from the FFR, that would be fair. It does hurt Glasgow and Edinburgh though as both hunt to try and get into the Champions Cup.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 19 Mar 2021, 11:18 am

No is the answer. Northampton released North without permission and were fined.

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Post by tigertattie Fri 19 Mar 2021, 11:18 am

Absolutely

The organisers should have thought about this before it happened. The "correct" thing to do would be to award a 28-0 win to Scotland if we can't get access to our players but that would be a really poor thing for the tournament. It would mean nothing to Scotland, no chance to win, no shop window for possible Lions players, no enjoyment of a rugby match for fans.

It would punish France for breaking the rules and could possibly hand Wales the title.

I can see things chnaging after this weekend. If Wales beat France the game becomes a dead rubber and could either be cancelled or postponded to the summer. Or both teams could just chuck the kids out to see what happens. If France beat Wales though, then the title is up for grabs and good luck sorting that mess out.

Does this mean we should jsut all hope for a Welsh win on Sataurday?
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Post by bsando Fri 19 Mar 2021, 5:58 pm

I'd prefer a test match where Scotland can put themselves in Lions contention. France are a highly ranked side, Gatland will be watching and it'll give fringe players a chance to show Gatland they're worthy of inclusion. I hope it goes ahead.

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Post by BigGee Fri 19 Mar 2021, 6:13 pm

Worcester have just put out a statement that they are happy to release CDP if selected.

You can bet they won't be doing this unilaterally, so it looks like a deal has been done

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Post by RDW Fri 19 Mar 2021, 9:42 pm

Hadn't realised Hastings was back this weekend - strange he's not with Scotland given our 10 issues?

Maybe not deemed match fit given his red came just after he returned from injury?

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Post by BigGee Fri 19 Mar 2021, 9:52 pm

His suspension is up on midnight on Saturday, hence he can play on Sunday for Glasgow

Trying to fathom out the suspension system requires some manner of lateral thinking at times

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Post by RDW Fri 19 Mar 2021, 10:21 pm

Ah I thought it was based on games!

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Post by tigertattie Fri 19 Mar 2021, 10:43 pm

RDW wrote:Ah I thought it was based on games!

Nah it’s weeks these days. He’s still banned on Saturday but free on Sunday Crying or Very sad
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Post by RDW Fri 19 Mar 2021, 10:46 pm

Shame they're playing on Sunday - bid ask to follow up away to Paris on Friday. We may need Hastings!

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Post by BigGee Sat 20 Mar 2021, 6:55 am

It looks like Finn will be fit, so it is likely he will be warming the pine if they do bring him back in

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Post by whatahitson Sat 20 Mar 2021, 9:42 am

I think they will put 60 points on Italy today but I also expect Italy to score 20 themselves.

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Post by bsando Sat 20 Mar 2021, 11:55 am

I don't think Scotland have ever put 60 points on Italy before, that would be a serious pumping! I agree Italy will get a few scores though, it'll likely be a very open and fast flowing match. A win and try BP would be great but the win will do just fine. Italy always raise their game for Scotland and rightly so, they've had most of their 6N success against us.

Hopefully Hogg can do the basics well at 10. He has the attacking instinct to go for gaps and step players as well as distribute to the forwards and backs. No need for any long passes or ambitious kicks really. Laidlaw had a few assists by simply passing flat for Huw Jones to run onto against England and France in 2018 so hopefully Hogg can pick him out occasionally. Jones is so good at hitting the space between defenders as he showed again against Ireland last weekend.

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Post by flyhalffactory Sat 20 Mar 2021, 1:23 pm

Toonie
"Saturday is an opportunity for us to show an improved performance and a much truer reflection of who we are as a team"

15. Maitland
14. Graham  11. Van der Merwe
13. Jones  12. Johnson
10. Hogg  9. Steele
8. M Fagerson
7. Watson  6. Richie
4. Skinner  5. Gilchrist
1. Sutherland  2. Cherry  3. Z Fagerson

Bench: 16. Turner, 17. Bhatti, 18. Berghan, 19. Craig, 20. Haining, 21. Price, 22. Van der Walt, 23. Harris.

The more I am looking at this 23 the more I like it.
I can see us being steady for first 5-10 mins, perhaps a couple of pens slotted over to calm Hoggy's nerves then 11-40 mins we will be looking to get the WBP.
If we get WBP by half-time I expect
40-50 min Hogg off, JVdW on
50 min Sutherland, Cherry, Z Fagerson off, Turner, Bhatti, Berghan on
55 min Gilchrist off, Craig on
58 min Steele off, Price on
60 min Johnson off, Harris to 13 Jones to 12

Final score Scotland 47 - 17 Italy
Fingers Crossed Whisky Braveheart

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Post by whatahitson Sat 20 Mar 2021, 1:29 pm

bsando wrote:I don't think Scotland have ever put 60 points on Italy before, that would be a serious pumping! I agree Italy will get a few scores though, it'll likely be a very open and fast flowing match. A win and try BP would be great but the win will do just fine. Italy always raise their game for Scotland and rightly so, they've had most of their 6N success against us.

Hopefully Hogg can do the basics well at 10. He has the attacking instinct to go for gaps and step players as well as distribute to the forwards and backs. No need for any long passes or ambitious kicks really. Laidlaw had a few assists by simply passing flat for Huw Jones to run onto against England and France in 2018 so hopefully Hogg can pick him out occasionally. Jones is so good at hitting the space between defenders as he showed again against Ireland last weekend.

Last game of the tournament has me thinking it will be a real bloodbath.

Italy actually play some really decent rugby at times but lack a cutting edge.

With Hogg at 10, the shackles will be somewhat 'off'. He'll probably kick quite a lot from first phase and/or kick deep when he's not sure of what to do which should produce quite a loose game in a way. Scotland will turn over Italy as they try to clear which should lead to tries given the way they attack, and once Scotland are 3-4 scores clear, the game should open up.

The other teams left a lot of points on the field against Italy. Wales had two tries disallowed which would have made it 62 points.

I can see Scotland hitting 50 at least but I also can see them conceding a few as the Italian pack is actually quite handy and as mentioned they run some excellent lines, they just need that one linebreak to make them stick and score some tries. If Scotland run the ball, which they should, that should mean tired bodies for both sides = gaps = tries.

That's what I'm hoping for anyway!

Scotland 61 - 22 Italy

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Post by RiscaGame Sat 20 Mar 2021, 2:10 pm

Gabby Logan can’t be right there, that Scotland tried to get Russell back today?

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Post by tigertattie Sat 20 Mar 2021, 2:22 pm

Oh dear
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Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama Sat 20 Mar 2021, 2:23 pm

Good start. By Italy.

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Post by tigertattie Sat 20 Mar 2021, 2:24 pm

RiscaGame wrote:Gabby Logan can’t be right there, that Scotland tried to get Russell back today?

I’d not be surprised. Shocking of true. Disregard for player welfare.
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Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama Sat 20 Mar 2021, 2:27 pm

Well played Dave Cherry, good control at the back

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Post by TightHEAD Sat 20 Mar 2021, 2:27 pm

Ref change then, he was due to run the line for Ire Vs Eng.
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Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama Sat 20 Mar 2021, 2:29 pm

Remind me again why Gregor hasn’t picked Huw at 13 in the last what feels like 2 decades?

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Post by tigertattie Sat 20 Mar 2021, 2:30 pm

Look. All I’m saying is I’m glad the Edinburgh boys know how to get across the try line
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Post by tigertattie Sat 20 Mar 2021, 2:35 pm

How did DTH get that offload away????
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Post by TightHEAD Sat 20 Mar 2021, 2:37 pm

Never a yellow
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Post by tigertattie Sat 20 Mar 2021, 2:38 pm

If he’d used his arm he’d have been fine.
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Post by TightHEAD Sat 20 Mar 2021, 2:38 pm

Pascal at it again! Rolling Eyes
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Post by tigertattie Sat 20 Mar 2021, 2:40 pm

Lovely line from sleepy Sean
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Post by tigertattie Sat 20 Mar 2021, 2:46 pm

Well Darcy won’t thank Johnson for that one
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Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama Sat 20 Mar 2021, 2:47 pm

Massive hit, great tackle that. Horrible pass from SJ, he owe’s Darcy several pints

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Post by tigertattie Sat 20 Mar 2021, 2:49 pm

Finally. Some action from a Glasgow player

Took long enough
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Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama Sat 20 Mar 2021, 2:50 pm

Some lovely hands in there, great play

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Post by RiscaGame Sat 20 Mar 2021, 2:50 pm

Very nice

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Post by flyhalffactory Sat 20 Mar 2021, 2:51 pm

WOW WOW WOW SHUG!

VdM is having an awesome game!

flyhalffactory

Posts : 3068
Join date : 2011-02-11
Location : Musselburgh

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Scotland v Italy 6N Championship Saturday 20th March 2021 - Page 2 Empty Re: Scotland v Italy 6N Championship Saturday 20th March 2021

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