England - Summer Tour

First topic message reminder :

After an "interesting" 6n...and with the Lions tour possibly going ahead, England have a chance to send a young Saxons side full of talent on the Summer tour to USA and Canada (if Covid permits)

They have 4 games pencilled in...

12th June; England v Barbarians (Suggestions it wont go ahead)

10th July; Scotland v England
17th July; USA v England
24th July; Canada v England

So looking to the future and the AI's who would you take on the tour? Assuming its 32/33 squad size.

Whats peoples thoughts on Ribbands...he seems to be consistently excellent..and has some power in him.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Whats peoples thoughts on Ribbands...he seems to be consistently excellent..and has some power in him.

My thoughts are he should be picked for the squad and capped asap. Really like him, doesn't seem to have a weak area in his game.

No 7&1/2 wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Whats peoples thoughts on Ribbands...he seems to be consistently excellent..and has some power in him.

My thoughts are he should be picked for the squad and capped asap. Really like him, doesn't seem to have a weak area in his game.

Wholeheartedly agree. Still only 25 but has lots of Prem level experience with Saints. He's big, he's mobile and does everything well. We do need to look at more options outside of the normal selections and he's been in and around the squad a couple of times. I'd definitely be looking to get him game time this summer.

Would he jump ahead of Hill? I must admit, I was very underwhelmed with him in the 6N.

i think Johnny Hill has so much to offer. It was a tough learning experience for him this 6n...but i would give him a bit longer.

Him, Isiekwe, Ribbands and George Martin would be good to have a look in the summer games. Nice contrasting styles...and complementary

All I would say about the majority of the locks we are talking about is that they all seem to be of the 'athletic, could do a job in the back-row' school. I'd like England to find a young immovable object who could add heft to the pack when it is required. I'd love a younger less injury prone Launchbury to come through.

I think Hill falls into the Ewels category for me. I know its not a view widely held but I think Ewels could be a very good lock for England, but its taken a bit of time for the performances to come. He's never going to be world class but I can see him alongside Itoje and becoming a formidable partnership. Similarly Hill needs a run of games and to be integrated into the squad. Them 3 and Ribbans (and that obviously ignores Launchbury, Lawes and Kruis) and I think we're pretty ok there.

Launchbury has ruptured his ACL, awful injury

https://twitter.com/waspsrugby/status/1386998561854869506?s=12

Would have been a good captain for this tour

BamBam wrote:Launchbury has ruptured his ACL, awful injury

https://twitter.com/waspsrugby/status/1386998561854869506?s=12

Would have been a good captain for this tour

Ah, rotten thing to happen to him, sadly could shorten his career at this stage.

It didn't look good but it's a blow for him, England and Wasps. From a pack with him and Willis in it to a good number of months without either ain't great. Launchbury's luck has been terrible with injuries, hope he comes back well obviously.

One winger that never gets mentioned is O Flaherty 7 tries in the last 7 games is in the form of his life is he considered too old 26 .

Cumbrian wrote:All I would say about the majority of the locks we are talking about is that they all seem to be of the 'athletic, could do a job in the back-row' school.  I'd like England to find a young immovable object who could add heft to the pack when it is required.  I'd love a younger less injury prone Launchbury to come through.

Ribbans is 19stone plus according to the Saints website, that surprised me.

An absolute stalwart of the Saints team without Lawes, when he is back they are possibly the best pairing in the Premiership.

Is Ribbans 6'8?

Launchburys England career could very well be over now. Which is such a shame. We shall see.

We do seem to have a surplus of "athletic" locks / back row hybrids...over some real heavy duty coal face locks. But is that just how the game has changed? Theres not a huge amount of heavy duty locks around the word these days...Retallick was a freak of nature...who was massive but could do anything.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Is Ribbans 6'8?

Launchburys England career could very well be over now. Which is such a shame. We shall see.

We do seem to have a surplus of "athletic" locks / back row hybrids...over some real heavy duty coal face locks. But is that just how the game has changed? Theres not a huge amount of heavy duty locks around the word these days...Retallick was a freak of nature...who was massive but could do anything.

I dont know. Hill is more of a heavy duty unit, and as for the Kpoku twins....

There is always a problem that when you get an Itoje (or a Tuilagi before him) you want every player to be like them.

I can't really think of many slower but massive locks that are effective at international level these days. There are guys such as Etzebeth and Lavanini that are absolutely gigantic but in order to be effective at international level they are very mobile as well. Both are quick enough to play a significant role in the SA and Argentina kick chase games for instance.

Paul Willemse is the nearest I can think of to an old school number 4. He's effective in the role that Galthie uses him for but France currently pick a very tall back row full of lineout jumpers that offset Willemse's weaknesses.

I'm not sure how effective enormous but less mobile brutes are in the second row now. Skelton for instance has done very well at club level but struggled for Australia. To make up for how much weaker those locks often are at the lineout you usually need a back row that can jump to the standard of guys like Croft, Parrise or Kieran Read which isn't the strength of England's current back row options. Etzebeth for his size is a solid lineout jumper but the Boks still usually use PSdT as a secondary jumper ahead of him. Similar with Petti playing flanker but jumping for Argentina to offset Lavanini's weakness in the air. Kote Mikautadze of Georgia is somewhat the same ilk but Beka Gorgadze is once again an excellent lineout option in their back row.

I've said it many times but Kruis has been a massive loss. Kruis and Itoje would seem an ideal pairing for Proudfoot to work with. From those starting options you can then give younger guys time from the bench, use Lawes for impact at lock or blindside, or even do both those things with a 6-2 bench split. With Kruis, Lawes and Launchbury unavailable at the same time it's been scratchy at best.

Marler being unavailable at the same time as Kruis won't have helped either to be fair. Our best set-piece prop and lock both gone there. Often when we've had poor games under Jones the tactics will go back to basics a bit and rebuild through the set-piece to get wins. That's harder to do with the absentees this Six Nations.

Overall I don't have that many concerns with the forwards. I think the experienced and younger options there are mostly very good. The backs concern me much more after the last 2 tournaments.

Are the Kpoku's even playing in the championship yet?

GeordieFalcon wrote:Are the Kpoku's even playing in the championship yet?

Joel has been in the matchday 23 every game he's been fit. Starting 1 game and 4 from the bench. He seems to have pushed past Hunter-Hill and has had some good performances from what I've heard.

Swinson has been starting most the games though. With Kruis and Isiekwe gone he's their senior lineout leader now so perhaps unsurprising they've stuck with him after the shock of the early loss.

As England will lose some players to the Lions, the more established players should be rested and the template should be the fringe England players with the rest made of up of the best talent from the premiership.  So wandering through these: -

West/Obano (if available)/Genge

Dunn, Capon,  Bit short of Hookers

Hill, Heyes, Williams or made be Painter (Hill seemed to have found form again)

Hill, Ewels, Martin, Ribbans,

Ludham, Curry,

Hill, Barbeary

Dombrandt, Simmonds

Mitchell, Spencer

Smith, Simmonds (Umaga also can look good)

O'Connors, Lawrence, Odogwu, Marchant

Nowell, O'Flaherty, Sleightholme, Hassell-Collins

Steward, Malins

probably a few other who have slipped my mind.   I have mentioned O'Flaherty (also before on this thread) and surprised how little attention he gets.  Exeter use him as a line-breaker.

Some not listed above would Cocanasiga, Mercer, Isiekwe.

You could also look at Freeman who is looking like he has what it takes to make international level.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Is Ribbans 6'8?

Launchburys England career could very well be over now. Which is such a shame. We shall see.

We do seem to have a surplus of "athletic" locks / back row hybrids...over some real heavy duty coal face locks. But is that just how the game has changed? Theres not a huge amount of heavy duty locks around the word these days...Retallick was a freak of nature...who was massive but could do anything.

Ribbans is a big bloke, just quite mobile which is why I think his physical presence gets overlooked.

I don't think the physical locks have gone away I think they've just had to adapt to the modern demands of rugby. They are now fitter, faster and are brought through with the idea of high work rates which makes them handy options to cover blindside if the game plan calls for a strong rolling maul game. Someone mentioned Launchbury earlier in the thread as an example of a unit in the row but he played 6 in his younger days.

We've already capped the long term England 4, it's George Martin and he's 6ft6 and 18 stone 8lbs at 19. Playing 6 currently because he's mobile and had the academy focus him on work rate. He'll bulk out some more between now and 21 (worrying prospect for opposition locks) and probably end up closer to 20 stone. Not sure he's ready to be on the heart of the second row yet (though could be worth an experiment this summer against second tier opposition) but playing that third jumper, blindside work horse he could do a job though I hope we have a look at Ted Hill this summer as well.

4. Ribbans
5. J Hill
6. Martin/T Hill

That would be a chunky combination though I'd still leave Johnny Hill at home and look at alternatives personally.

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:You could also look at Freeman who is looking like he has what it takes to make international level.

Only thing that concerns me about Freeman is the amount of strapping around that knee. A lot of strapping there and then he went off against Ulster with an issue with that knee. If there's a problem that's fixable there now would be the best summer to go and get it fixed properly.

I think England are shortly going to have to consider what they want in their back three. The options coming through look really good. Sleightholme and Freeman at Saints, Steward at Tigers, the entire back three of Loader, Hassell-Collins and Parton at LI, Thorley at Glaws, Cockasiga is practically forgotten at Bath but they've also got Muir and de Glanville. There's so much talent coming up it's not longer a case of picking the best options it's about building the combination and I think May and Daly need to be looking over their shoulders. Watson less so because of his 6N form but if he slips up... Personally after years of trying not to close my eyes everytime a contestable up and under goes into England's backline I'd like to start with Steward and then add some X factor around him. He's the rock at the back but whilst he'll reliably carry well he's not going to pull up trees. If you've got that rock at the back you can select wings that go looking for work.

Some people here calling for Ben Curry, but he's not played since December and I haven't seen him in any of Sale's games. He had quite a nasty shoulder injury and I have not read any updates on his progress. I hope he recovers well but it may be a bit premature to think he could go straight into a tour. Here's hoping because he's every bit as good as his brother, but it's not like we're lacking in decent 7s.

I think we are being a bit premature when we say someone is the next big thing, or whatever.  I agree we have a lot of young talent across England (and frankly in all our nations).  Let's let them develop and put in a full season or so to see how they push on.  To me, this shows the benefit of having a Saxons side, which in an ideal world would be playing the second sides of the other Six Nations.  Hopefully, after Covid.  

And also, maybe, just maybe, we can find someone, somewhere in England to bl**dy play Inside Centre.

Farrell, O'Connor, Brophy-Clews, Tuilagi, Lawrence, Devoto, James what sort you looking for doc?

cb wrote:

Dunn, Capon,  Bit short of Hookers

Mcguigan is consistently outstanding for us. In a top side...people would be lauding all over him! but he's 28 so probably not for the future...
Our other young hooker Blamire is coming through nicely however aswell. Much bigger unit , heavy duty carrier. A rough diamond.

One to consider for the tour.

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:You could also look at Freeman who is looking like he has what it takes to make international level.

The same was said of Furbank

formerly known as Sam wrote:

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:You could also look at Freeman who is looking like he has what it takes to make international level.

Only thing that concerns me about Freeman is the amount of strapping around that knee. A lot of strapping there and then he went off against Ulster with an issue with that knee. If there's a problem that's fixable there now would be the best summer to go and get it fixed properly.

I think England are shortly going to have to consider what they want in their back three. The options coming through look really good. Sleightholme and Freeman at Saints, Steward at Tigers, the entire back three of Loader, Hassell-Collins and Parton at LI, Thorley at Glaws, Cockasiga is practically forgotten at Bath but they've also got Muir and de Glanville. There's so much talent coming up it's not longer a case of picking the best options it's about building the combination and I think May and Daly need to be looking over their shoulders. Watson less so because of his 6N form but if he slips up... Personally after years of trying not to close my eyes everytime a contestable up and under goes into England's backline I'd like to start with Steward and then add some X factor around him. He's the rock at the back but whilst he'll reliably carry well he's not going to pull up trees. If you've got that rock at the back you can select wings that go looking for work.

He has a good passing game from what ive seen (threw a great long pass in the game at the weekend, that lead to a try) and he has a good offloading game. Id go with Steward aswell.

doctor_grey wrote:I think we are being a bit premature when we say someone is the next big thing, or whatever.  I agree we have a lot of young talent across England (and frankly in all our nations).  Let's let them develop and put in a full season or so to see how they push on.  To me, this shows the benefit of having a Saxons side, which in an ideal world would be playing the second sides of the other Six Nations.  Hopefully, after Covid.  

And also, maybe, just maybe, we can find someone, somewhere in England to bl**dy play Inside Centre.

Ollie Lawrence?

I wonder if Steward is going to rehash the old Brown vs. Foden fullback debate from yester year? I wonder who is going to be the Ben to Steward's Mike?

We've been lucky with full backs up until the Daly (failed) experiment. For Foden read Hodge. Should him and Stewart continue their trajectory we'll all be happy England fans.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:I think we are being a bit premature when we say someone is the next big thing, or whatever.  I agree we have a lot of young talent across England (and frankly in all our nations).  Let's let them develop and put in a full season or so to see how they push on.  To me, this shows the benefit of having a Saxons side, which in an ideal world would be playing the second sides of the other Six Nations.  Hopefully, after Covid.  

And also, maybe, just maybe, we can find someone, somewhere in England to bl**dy play Inside Centre.

Ollie Lawrence?

Someone a bit more 'Eddie friendly'?  But, to me, he is more of a 13, and yes, I really would like to see him get a decent shot.  O'Connor seems the only real player who - potentially - has the goods to play 12 at the top level.  Odd that Tuilagi is more of a 13 and Slade (whatever we think of him) is more of a 12 in skill set.   Not so sure about Brophy-Clews or Devoto can translate to playing for England, but I guess we will see.  I guess I prefer more of a playmaker, second receiver, second 5/8, than a hard runner at 12.

I would have no issue with Lawrence going for the 12 spot.

You see i like Devoto...

And in my opinion its not about having all the best players in the their position...its about the ones that fit the team.

Ie Devoto might not be the very best 12...however, hes a tough, hard working, hard carrying 12 with a good passing game. If you have talent at 9,10,and 13..then a rock like Devoto is not a bad thing at all.

You could stick with Farrell...?

GeordieFalcon wrote:I would have no issue with Lawrence going for the 12 spot.

You see i like Devoto...

And in my opinion its not about having all the best players in the their position...its about the ones that fit the team.

Ie Devoto might not be the very best 12...however, hes a tough, hard working, hard carrying 12 with a good passing game. If you have talent at 9,10,and 13..then a rock like Devoto is not a bad thing at all.

You could stick with Farrell...?

Gaaaak. Apologies in advance (I know I have to), Jamie Noon first.

Me, I'd stick with Farrell as I think him next to Smith would be a nice partnership along with a more threatening scrum half with a better pass. Good point on Devoto and the balance though, I was never a huge Tindall fan but what he did was knit together that midfield and offer a strength others perhaps didn't have (or to a lesser extent). The problem comes when you end up with a Noon, Tindall or Hape, Tindall pair which sucks the life out of the team.

doctor_grey wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:I would have no issue with Lawrence going for the 12 spot.

You see i like Devoto...

And in my opinion its not about having all the best players in the their position...its about the ones that fit the team.

Ie Devoto might not be the very best 12...however, hes a tough, hard working, hard carrying 12 with a good passing game. If you have talent at 9,10,and 13..then a rock like Devoto is not a bad thing at all.

You could stick with Farrell...?

Gaaaak.  Apologies in advance (I know I have to), Jamie Noon first.

Jamie gets slated but he was a quality premier league centre....what id give for him in the Falcons now!!

GeordieFalcon wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:I would have no issue with Lawrence going for the 12 spot.

You see i like Devoto...

And in my opinion its not about having all the best players in the their position...its about the ones that fit the team.

Ie Devoto might not be the very best 12...however, hes a tough, hard working, hard carrying 12 with a good passing game. If you have talent at 9,10,and 13..then a rock like Devoto is not a bad thing at all.

You could stick with Farrell...?

Gaaaak.  Apologies in advance (I know I have to), Jamie Noon first.

Jamie gets slated but he was a quality premier league centre....what id give for him in the Falcons now!!

I know that, and played hard as a dog.  Just having a bit of fun, that's all.  But continuing with Farrell who without question is not a 12?  

No 7&1/2 wrote:Me, I'd stick with Farrell as I think him next to Smith would be a nice partnership along with a more threatening scrum half with a better pass. Good point on Devoto and the balance though, I was never a huge Tindall fan but what he did was knit together that midfield and offer a strength others perhaps didn't have (or to a lesser extent). The problem comes when you end up with a Noon, Tindall or Hape, Tindall pair which sucks the life out of the team.

i was actually thinking of Tindall aswell as i typed that. Not the best 13 we have had...but its what his basics brought to the team.

Is there any news on the actual games yet...who are we playing and where?

Its all home based now isnt it? Heard Georgia mentioned at one point...which would be a good physical game for the Saxons side.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:You could also look at Freeman who is looking like he has what it takes to make international level.

Only thing that concerns me about Freeman is the amount of strapping around that knee. A lot of strapping there and then he went off against Ulster with an issue with that knee. If there's a problem that's fixable there now would be the best summer to go and get it fixed properly.

I think England are shortly going to have to consider what they want in their back three. The options coming through look really good. Sleightholme and Freeman at Saints, Steward at Tigers, the entire back three of Loader, Hassell-Collins and Parton at LI, Thorley at Glaws, Cockasiga is practically forgotten at Bath but they've also got Muir and de Glanville. There's so much talent coming up it's not longer a case of picking the best options it's about building the combination and I think May and Daly need to be looking over their shoulders. Watson less so because of his 6N form but if he slips up... Personally after years of trying not to close my eyes everytime a contestable up and under goes into England's backline I'd like to start with Steward and then add some X factor around him. He's the rock at the back but whilst he'll reliably carry well he's not going to pull up trees. If you've got that rock at the back you can select wings that go looking for work.

He has a good passing game from what ive seen (threw a great long pass in the game at the weekend, that lead to a try) and he has a good offloading game. Id go with Steward aswell.

Played 10 and 13 at school before Tigers academy moved him to fullback. He can also kick for goal in the Daly style. Tigers do use him as the secondary playmaker coming into the line a bit like when we had Murphy though he's got a little way to go before he can do what Geordan did. Certainly the flyers England have available on the wing would do well to get back and get onto his shoulder for the kick return, his height means he's got the reach to get offloads away. He increasingly looks more like a 30 year old experienced player as opposed to a 19 year old, his one on one tackling is very good as shown when up against Freeman in the first half at the weekend. Freeman at full flight gave him the step and ended up being brought down with a foot being dragged into touch.

Just make sure there's ammunition on the wings alongside him.

GeordieFalcon wrote:I would have no issue with Lawrence going for the 12 spot.

You see i like Devoto...

And in my opinion its not about having all the best players in the their position...its about the ones that fit the team.

Ie Devoto might not be the very best 12...however, hes a tough, hard working, hard carrying 12 with a good passing game. If you have talent at 9,10,and 13..then a rock like Devoto is not a bad thing at all.

You could stick with Farrell...?

We have done OK with players like that. Not great, but it is what Farrell senior was doing, Hape too, possibly Flutey although he was actually good even if only for a brief period.

LIW...im not saying flood the team with them...im saying if your struggling put a real quality playing there...then you put in a player in who can do a specific job for the team.

However im hoping someone can really come through...O'Connor or Lawrence and make it their own.

GeordieFalcon wrote:LIW...im not saying flood the team with them...im saying if your struggling put a real quality playing there...then you put in a player in who can do a specific job for the team.

However im hoping someone can really come through...O'Connor or Lawrence and make it their own.

I am surprised the good doctor has not mentioned the true prince of Northampton

5 weeks for Obano.

lostinwales wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:LIW...im not saying flood the team with them...im saying if your struggling put a real quality playing there...then you put in a player in who can do a specific job for the team.

However im hoping someone can really come through...O'Connor or Lawrence and make it their own.

I am surprised the good doctor has not mentioned the true prince of Northampton

At the moment he is playing more like the Prince of Bel Air than the Prince of Northampton, got three players ahead of him for the 15 spot in Furbank, Freeman and Tuala. He really needs to go back to 12 where he would have more chance of some games to impress.

lostinwales wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:LIW...im not saying flood the team with them...im saying if your struggling put a real quality playing there...then you put in a player in who can do a specific job for the team.

However im hoping someone can really come through...O'Connor or Lawrence and make it their own.

I am surprised the good doctor has not mentioned the true prince of Northampton

Well.....now that you mention His Royal Rugbyness (the REAL Prince Harry).  He needs playing time to get back to the trajectory he was previously on.   He does have every tool, or was getting there, but his injuries could potentially derail a career which never really got going and seemed to have such a high ceiling.  

I know I have said this before, but I think as long as Farrell is at 12, whomever we have at 10 and 13 will be limited in what they will be able to do.  Yes, I like the idea of a second receiver at inside centre, but a hard charging player like Ollie Lawrence could work off a real playmaking 10 with another playmaker around him.  If the fullback comes up into the play a lot, maybe that is OK instead.  But to be fair, using the Leicester example, there are not many players as gifted as Geordan Murphy was.  What other EQ 15, besides Alex Goode and maybe Malins, can perform that function? All of which means a healthy Prince Harry at 12 makes more and more sense.

Harry Mallinder at 24 has barely played in recent memory. I'd like to see Saints use that Bedford connection and send him down there on loan for a few months. Get him playing regularly, doesn't matter massively what position just so he's getting minutes and his hands on the ball. Might actually suit him to play 10 in the Championship. Once his confidence is picked up and he's got game time then he go back to Saints for pre season and try to push on into the team for next year.

He doesn't seem to be getting a look in at the minute so can't even be considered for England which is a shame because is a player with undoubtedly high potential.

doctor_grey wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:LIW...im not saying flood the team with them...im saying if your struggling put a real quality playing there...then you put in a player in who can do a specific job for the team.

However im hoping someone can really come through...O'Connor or Lawrence and make it their own.

I am surprised the good doctor has not mentioned the true prince of Northampton

Well.....now that you mention His Royal Rugbyness (the REAL Prince Harry).  He needs playing time to get back to the trajectory he was previously on.   He does have every tool, or was getting there, but his injuries could potentially derail a career which never really got going and seemed to have such a high ceiling.  

I know I have said this before, but I think as long as Farrell is at 12, whomever we have at 10 and 13 will be limited in what they will be able to do.  Yes, I like the idea of a second receiver at inside centre, but a hard charging player like Ollie Lawrence could work off a real playmaking 10 with another playmaker around him.  If the fullback comes up into the play a lot, maybe that is OK instead.  But to be fair, using the Leicester example, there are no players as gifted as Geordan Murphy was.  What other EQ 15, besides Alex Goode and maybe Malins, can perform that function?  All of which means a healthy Prince Harry at 12 makes more and more sense.  

Fixed it for you. There's some who could start to emulate what Murphy did if they develop certain areas of their game. Malins as you mention is the closest he just needs to really work on his ability under the high ball (always a Geordie strong point, Gaelic football as a young man seems to help in that department).

If England continue to play in the fashion they do then the 15 needs to be able to distribute reliably because the attacking structure does use three playmakers at 10, 12 and 15. Unless we go for the wild concept of changing the attacking system but despite the change in attack coaches the backline system in effect doesn't change.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:LIW...im not saying flood the team with them...im saying if your struggling put a real quality playing there...then you put in a player in who can do a specific job for the team.

However im hoping someone can really come through...O'Connor or Lawrence and make it their own.

I am surprised the good doctor has not mentioned the true prince of Northampton

Well.....now that you mention His Royal Rugbyness (the REAL Prince Harry).  He needs playing time to get back to the trajectory he was previously on.   He does have every tool, or was getting there, but his injuries could potentially derail a career which never really got going and seemed to have such a high ceiling.  

I know I have said this before, but I think as long as Farrell is at 12, whomever we have at 10 and 13 will be limited in what they will be able to do.  Yes, I like the idea of a second receiver at inside centre, but a hard charging player like Ollie Lawrence could work off a real playmaking 10 with another playmaker around him.  If the fullback comes up into the play a lot, maybe that is OK instead.  But to be fair, using the Leicester example, there are no players as gifted as Geordan Murphy was.  What other EQ 15, besides Alex Goode and maybe Malins, can perform that function?  All of which means a healthy Prince Harry at 12 makes more and more sense.  

Fixed it for you. There's some who could start to emulate what Murphy did if they develop certain areas of their game. Malins as you mention is the closest he just needs to really work on his ability under the high ball (always a Geordie strong point, Gaelic football as a young man seems to help in that department).

If England continue to play in the fashion they do then the 15 needs to be able to distribute reliably because the attacking structure does use three playmakers at 10, 12 and 15. Unless we go for the wild concept of changing the attacking system but despite the change in attack coaches the backline system in effect doesn't change.

I'm good with that. Murphy was a very special player.

He was no Matt Burke

Sgt_Pooly wrote:He was no Matt Burke

Not many are mate...