LIONS ANNOUNCEMENT

by No 7&1/2 Tue 13 Apr 2021, 3:02 pm

First topic message reminder :

Forwards: Tadhg Beirne, Jack Conan, Luke Cowan Dickie, Tom Curry, Zander Fagerson, Taulupe Faletau, Tadhg Furlong, Jamie George, Iain Henderson, Jonny Hill, Maro Itoje, Alun Wyn Jones, Wyn Jones, Courtney Lawes, Ken Owens, Andrew Porter, Sam Simmonds, Rory Sutherland, Justin Tipuric, Mako Vunipola, Hamish Watson.

Backs: Josh Adams, Bundee Aki, Dan Biggar, Elliot Daly, Gareth Davies, Owen Farrell, Chris Harris, Robbie Henshaw, Stuart Hogg, Conor Murray, Ali Price, Louis Rees-Zammit, Finn Russell, Duhan van der Merwe, Anthony Watson, Liam Williams.

by Cyril Thu 06 May 2021, 7:17 am

He isn’t British though. He should be representing SA if anyone.

He’s terrible in defence.

by No 7&1/2 Thu 06 May 2021, 7:23 am

Dont think I'd take dvm. May Watson adam lrz above him. But as long as daly doesn't go I suppose.

by alive555 Thu 06 May 2021, 7:30 am

Cyril wrote:He isn’t British though. He should be representing SA if anyone.

He’s terrible in defence.

Immature. He had the best stats of all the wingers in the 6n.

by TJ Thu 06 May 2021, 7:42 am

Duhan has been topping the stats in the pro 14 since arrival and was clearly the top winger of the 6N - and for all hi smistakes in defence he is a lot better than either LRZ or Watson or May in terms of missed tackles. Check the stats

by No 7&1/2 Thu 06 May 2021, 7:44 am

We should take Nowell if you want a quality defensive winger. LRZ is the rawest especially in defence but I do think he's a class player. He'd be the nearest dropping out for DVM in my squad but there you go.

by Cyril Thu 06 May 2021, 7:53 am

Why are posts being deleted?

by LordDowlais Thu 06 May 2021, 8:09 am

This place is going to explode today...... Laugh

Lets wait for the meltdown.

by LordDowlais Thu 06 May 2021, 8:13 am

Reports are saying that Billy Vunipola is going to miss out. Also, reports are saying Sexton and James Ryan are not going to be selected.

Owen Farrell, Jamie George, Kyle Sinckler, Tom Curry and Anthony Watson are said to be England's Lions certainties, and Elliot Daly is being selected because of George North's injury. Also, AWJ is going to be captain, so that is one spot taken in the 1st 15.

This place is going to go bonkers. Laugh

by No 7&1/2 Thu 06 May 2021, 8:17 am

LordDowlais wrote:This place is going to explode today......

Lets wait for the meltdown.

What do you think are going to be the main issues?

by No 7&1/2 Thu 06 May 2021, 8:20 am

Ah sorry too quick to reply without waiting for the second post. Ryan not going would be madness, as would Daly going! Fortunately there is history of the captain missing out on the starting 15.

by Guest Thu 06 May 2021, 8:34 am

alive555 wrote:
flyhalffactory wrote:https://contenthubble.com/playground/lions-selection/

Interesting comparison for all the potential Lions positions based all the matches during the 6Ns 2021

Have a butchers at the spine of the side,
2
4 & 5
.....hell look at every position
Based on that some of the nailed one players probably wouldn't or shouldn't be on the plane

broken tackles

DVM - 32
May -9
Adams - 7
Watson - 13
LRZ - 7
Earls - 8

DVM also had the higest no of metres made, , most tries and lowest missed tackles. If hes not on the plane theres something seriously wrong!

Going by this logic then AWJ starts all day long, according to the same stats site Smile

by LordDowlais Thu 06 May 2021, 8:41 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:This place is going to explode today......

Lets wait for the meltdown.

What do you think are going to be the main issues?

If the reports are true, this is what I think will put this place into meltdown:-

AWJ captain
No Sexton
No Genge
Elliot Daly instead of "place name here"
Not enough Scottish players

Thats just to start, and we do not know who is selected yet. Laugh

by Soul Requiem Thu 06 May 2021, 8:45 am

No James Ryan is a big call, if he does miss out I can only presume it's because he's on the small side for a second row which against South Africa is a big deal. A lot is made of the world cup and rightly so, Wales fronted up in the scrum with a big helping hand from a bulky second row; both AWJ and Ball are 19st plus.

by No 7&1/2 Thu 06 May 2021, 8:46 am

I certainly wouldn't agree with all those. Think Genge is a class prop and I'd take him and a number of others over the likely pick of Vunipola. Daly is meh at best but at a stretch can play about par at wing and slightly above at 13 and 15 and with the smaller squad could be useful (really stretching there). As I said I'd prefer to name the captain once you know the team but the same happened last time I suppose. Sexton....I'm just hoping he doesn't take Smith.

No one is going to agree on all Gatland's choices.

by lostinwales Thu 06 May 2021, 8:58 am

alive555 wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:DVM has a great chance but there's big question marks regarding his defence and rightly so.

Do his attacking attributes outweigh his potential defensive issues? I'd be inclined to take him tbh, just for the potential match up against Kolbe...it would be immense to watch.

Total Nonsense

MISSED TACKLES 6 NATIONS

DVM - 3 IN 400 MINS
LRZ - 9 IN 400 MINS
MAY - 5 IN 400 MINS
ADAMS - 9 IN 240 MINS
WATSON - 7 IN 395 MINS

DVM had the best defensive stats.

According to that stats site DVM made 13 tackles and missed 3 - 18.75%
May made 25 and missed 5 - so 16.67%

So you are wrong

by lostinwales Thu 06 May 2021, 9:00 am

TJ wrote:Duhan has been topping the stats in the pro 14 since arrival and was clearly the top winger of the 6N - and for all hi smistakes in defence he is a lot better than either LRZ or Watson or May in terms of missed tackles. Check the stats

See above. Wrong

by R!skysports Thu 06 May 2021, 9:01 am

LordDowlais wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:This place is going to explode today......

Lets wait for the meltdown.

What do you think are going to be the main issues?

If the reports are true, this is what I think will put this place into meltdown:-

AWJ captain
No Sexton
No Genge
Elliot Daly instead of "place name here"
Not enough Scottish players

Thats just to start, and we do not know who is selected yet.

Lots of pre-baiting the pre-announcement of the pre-meltdown lol

Of your list, I would say

AWJ captain - Don't think the right call, but can understand it. Would not melt down over it and would support him. Previous years he was injured and should not have toured, but this year he is playing well. - Result -No melt down
No Sexton - Been a bit hit and miss, and is on the older side - have 2 others that are almost exactly the same player (Bigger and Farrell), so one should miss out. Would say Bigger in the best form, so toss up between the others. I personally would dop Farrell, not in form and a terrible leader - but 50/50 - Result -No melt down
No Genge - better players playing better - - Result -No melt down
Elliot Daly instead of "place name here" - That would be a poor decision, and could only be explain by versitility, but worthy of a melt down??? - Result -micro melt down
Not enough Scottish players - as we only expect 5 - 8, then if we get less than that on the last years performance, then rightly miffed if less than 5 on the whole tour - Result -micro melt down

Hug

by alive555 Thu 06 May 2021, 9:01 am

The Oracle wrote:
alive555 wrote:
flyhalffactory wrote:https://contenthubble.com/playground/lions-selection/

Interesting comparison for all the potential Lions positions based all the matches during the 6Ns 2021

Have a butchers at the spine of the side,
2
4 & 5
.....hell look at every position
Based on that some of the nailed one players probably wouldn't or shouldn't be on the plane

broken tackles

DVM - 32
May -9
Adams - 7
Watson - 13
LRZ - 7
Earls - 8

DVM also had the higest no of metres made, , most tries and lowest missed tackles. If hes not on the plane theres something seriously wrong!

Going by this logic then AWJ starts all day long, according to the same stats site

He is starting. Face palm !

by lostinwales Thu 06 May 2021, 9:04 am

flyhalffactory wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:DVM has a great chance but there's big question marks regarding his defence and rightly so.

Do his attacking attributes outweigh his potential defensive issues? I'd be inclined to take him tbh, just for the potential match up against Kolbe...it would be immense to watch.

You do realise we have proved on numerous occasions that he had by far the best defensive stats in the 2021 6Ns......

3rd time. No he didn't. He didn't miss as many tackles as, say, May, because he didn't make as many in the first place. As a % his missed to made tackles is worse than May.

And I am not saying he shouldn't tour. He's a powerful wing and on form, but unless you have better stats than the ones on the site referenced above to say he was the best defensive winger is just BS.

by LordDowlais Thu 06 May 2021, 9:18 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:I certainly wouldn't agree with all those. Think Genge is a class prop and I'd take him and a number of others over the likely pick of Vunipola. Daly is meh at best but at a stretch can play about par at wing and slightly above at 13 and 15 and with the smaller squad could be useful (really stretching there). As I said I'd prefer to name the captain once you know the team but the same happened last time I suppose. Sexton....I'm just hoping he doesn't take Smith.

No one is going to agree on all Gatland's choices.

Well you need to speak to Genge then, as I do not think he has been approached.

by No 7&1/2 Thu 06 May 2021, 9:23 am

LordDowlais wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:I certainly wouldn't agree with all those. Think Genge is a class prop and I'd take him and a number of others over the likely pick of Vunipola. Daly is meh at best but at a stretch can play about par at wing and slightly above at 13 and 15 and with the smaller squad could be useful (really stretching there). As I said I'd prefer to name the captain once you know the team but the same happened last time I suppose. Sexton....I'm just hoping he doesn't take Smith.

No one is going to agree on all Gatland's choices.

Well you need to speak to Genge then, as I do not think he has been approached.

Simply replying to your point of a meltdown if he's left out. I'm aware he has said he's not received an email (saying his email is broken), but for me he's better than Vunipola who will likely be going.

by LordDowlais Thu 06 May 2021, 9:23 am

In fact, he has come out and said he has not been asked:-

Snubbed England star says praise means nothing

Snubbed England star Ellis Genge says praise and Lions support from former skipper Sam Warburton is meaningless as he faces up to missing out. Genge has revealed he is not one of the 50-odd players to receive emails from Warren Gatland, meaning his Lions hopes appear over before Thursday's big announcement.

That's despite BT Sport pundit Warburton showering him with praise on the weekend following his performance for Leicester against Ulster and insisting he would definitely have him in his Lions squad.

“It means f*** all unless you get picked, doesn’t it?” 26-year-old Genge told the Telegraph.

“It doesn’t matter what everyone else thinks. My old man had me as captain but he doesn’t pick the squad. If you don’t get picked, none of the outside noise matters.”

When asked if he had received contact from Gatland, Genge joked: “I think my emails are broken,” before adding, “No, I haven’t got one, mate. I’m getting my carpets cleaned on Thursday and the TV’s in that room so I won’t be in there. I’ll have my phone with me, but I haven’t had any emails so I'd assume [it's a no].”

by No 7&1/2 Thu 06 May 2021, 9:24 am

lostinwales wrote:
flyhalffactory wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:DVM has a great chance but there's big question marks regarding his defence and rightly so.

Do his attacking attributes outweigh his potential defensive issues? I'd be inclined to take him tbh, just for the potential match up against Kolbe...it would be immense to watch.

You do realise we have proved on numerous occasions that he had by far the best defensive stats in the 2021 6Ns......

3rd time. No he didn't. He didn't miss as many tackles as, say, May, because he didn't make as many in the first place. As a % his missed to made tackles is worse than May.

And I am not saying he shouldn't tour. He's a powerful wing and on form, but unless you have better stats than the ones on the site referenced above to say he was the best defensive winger is just BS.

And I'd make the same argument as before, stats are limited without view. How many of Mays tackles were him slipping off an expected 1:1 or how many were a finger tip on someone after reacting to an opposition player getting through another tackle? I wouldn't have a clue. Without sitting down to review each tackle can anyone honestly remember each one and how the players actions or reactions fed into them?

by Guest Thu 06 May 2021, 9:25 am

alive555 wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
alive555 wrote:
flyhalffactory wrote:https://contenthubble.com/playground/lions-selection/

Interesting comparison for all the potential Lions positions based all the matches during the 6Ns 2021

Have a butchers at the spine of the side,
2
4 & 5
.....hell look at every position
Based on that some of the nailed one players probably wouldn't or shouldn't be on the plane

broken tackles

DVM - 32
May -9
Adams - 7
Watson - 13
LRZ - 7
Earls - 8

DVM also had the higest no of metres made, , most tries and lowest missed tackles. If hes not on the plane theres something seriously wrong!

Going by this logic then AWJ starts all day long, according to the same stats site

He is starting. Face palm !

But many people are not happy about it, is my point. He's in form and performing better than his rivals! As the site above shows.

by formerly known as Sam Thu 06 May 2021, 9:25 am

LordDowlais wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:I certainly wouldn't agree with all those. Think Genge is a class prop and I'd take him and a number of others over the likely pick of Vunipola. Daly is meh at best but at a stretch can play about par at wing and slightly above at 13 and 15 and with the smaller squad could be useful (really stretching there). As I said I'd prefer to name the captain once you know the team but the same happened last time I suppose. Sexton....I'm just hoping he doesn't take Smith.

No one is going to agree on all Gatland's choices.

Well you need to speak to Genge then, as I do not think he has been approached.

I'm very surprised Genge wasn't at least sent an email to ask him if he's available. He might only be in consideration as third choice behind the form Wyn Jones and Sutherland but he does a bit of everything and does it well. For him not to be in contention at all seems crazy to me, I reckon he's one of those that would be great fun in camp as well.

by alive555 Thu 06 May 2021, 9:27 am

lostinwales wrote:
alive555 wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:DVM has a great chance but there's big question marks regarding his defence and rightly so.

Do his attacking attributes outweigh his potential defensive issues? I'd be inclined to take him tbh, just for the potential match up against Kolbe...it would be immense to watch.

Total Nonsense

MISSED TACKLES 6 NATIONS

DVM - 3 IN 400 MINS
LRZ - 9 IN 400 MINS
MAY - 5 IN 400 MINS
ADAMS - 9 IN 240 MINS
WATSON - 7 IN 395 MINS

DVM had the best defensive stats.

According to that stats site DVM made 13 tackles and missed 3 - 18.75%
May made 25 and missed 5 - so 16.67%

So you are wrong

sharpen up i said "missed tackles"

but anyway np lets use tackles and missed tackles Smile

here you go

made / missed

DVM - 13 /3 in 400 min = missed 1 every 92 min or 23%
May - 25/ 5 in 400 min = missed 1 every 80 min or 20%
Watson - 15 / 7 in 395 = missed 1 every 56 min or 50%
RZ - 28/ 9 IN 400 = missed 1 every 44 min or 32%
Adams - 10 / 6 in 240 = missed 1 every 40 min or 60%

So he missed the fewest tackles of all the wingers in the 6n, and as a % of tackles he was literally the same as May .

So if you want to see who is the defensive liability need look no further than the stats above.

by formerly known as Sam Thu 06 May 2021, 9:27 am

Joe Marler has also confirmed that he didn't receive the email.

by Guest Thu 06 May 2021, 9:28 am

formerly known as Sam wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:I certainly wouldn't agree with all those. Think Genge is a class prop and I'd take him and a number of others over the likely pick of Vunipola. Daly is meh at best but at a stretch can play about par at wing and slightly above at 13 and 15 and with the smaller squad could be useful (really stretching there). As I said I'd prefer to name the captain once you know the team but the same happened last time I suppose. Sexton....I'm just hoping he doesn't take Smith.

No one is going to agree on all Gatland's choices.

Well you need to speak to Genge then, as I do not think he has been approached.

I'm very surprised Genge wasn't at least sent an email to ask him if he's available. He might only be in consideration as third choice behind the form Wyn Jones and Sutherland but he does a bit of everything and does it well. For him not to be in contention at all seems crazy to me, I reckon he's one of those that would be great fun in camp as well.

I'm gonna be a bit controversial here - is it perhaps his attitude? He comes across as a very 'narky' guy. Maybe he's not seen as someone good for the squad and to be in camp? Just an observation. That's how I perceive him from the outside looking in but England fans might not agree.

by No 7&1/2 Thu 06 May 2021, 9:32 am

formerly known as Sam wrote:Joe Marler has also confirmed that he didn't receive the email.

That's bonkers.

by lostinwales Thu 06 May 2021, 9:32 am

alive555 wrote:
lostinwales wrote:
alive555 wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:DVM has a great chance but there's big question marks regarding his defence and rightly so.

Do his attacking attributes outweigh his potential defensive issues? I'd be inclined to take him tbh, just for the potential match up against Kolbe...it would be immense to watch.

Total Nonsense

MISSED TACKLES 6 NATIONS

DVM - 3 IN 400 MINS
LRZ - 9 IN 400 MINS
MAY - 5 IN 400 MINS
ADAMS - 9 IN 240 MINS
WATSON - 7 IN 395 MINS

DVM had the best defensive stats.

According to that stats site DVM made 13 tackles and missed 3 - 18.75%
May made 25 and missed 5 - so 16.67%

So you are wrong

sharpen up i said "missed tackles"

but anyway np lets use tackles and missed tackles

here you go

made / missed

DVM - 13 /3 in 400 min = missed 1 every 92 min or 23%
May - 25/ 5 in 400 min = missed 1 every 80 min or 20%
Watson - 15 / 7 in 395 = missed 1 every 56 min or 50%
RZ - 28/ 9 IN 400 = missed 1 every 44 min or 32%
Adams - 10 / 6 in 240 = missed 1 every 40 min or 60%

So he missed the fewest tackles of all the wingers in the 6n, and as a % of tackles he was literally the same as May .

So if you want to see who is the defensive liability need look no further than the stats above.

This is an exercise of the futility of statistics, or making them say what you want, or stretching a little knowledge a very very long way. On your basis the best defensive winger is the guy who avoids making any tackles at all.

by formerly known as Sam Thu 06 May 2021, 9:33 am

The Oracle wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:I certainly wouldn't agree with all those. Think Genge is a class prop and I'd take him and a number of others over the likely pick of Vunipola. Daly is meh at best but at a stretch can play about par at wing and slightly above at 13 and 15 and with the smaller squad could be useful (really stretching there). As I said I'd prefer to name the captain once you know the team but the same happened last time I suppose. Sexton....I'm just hoping he doesn't take Smith.

No one is going to agree on all Gatland's choices.

Well you need to speak to Genge then, as I do not think he has been approached.

I'm very surprised Genge wasn't at least sent an email to ask him if he's available. He might only be in consideration as third choice behind the form Wyn Jones and Sutherland but he does a bit of everything and does it well. For him not to be in contention at all seems crazy to me, I reckon he's one of those that would be great fun in camp as well.

I'm gonna be a bit controversial here - is it perhaps his attitude? He comes across as a very 'narky' guy. Maybe he's not seen as someone good for the squad and to be in camp? Just an observation. That's how I perceive him from the outside looking in but England fans might not agree.

There's Genge fired up for the game and then there's Genge off the pitch. He's probably the most honest rugby player currently playing because he always gives an honest answer to any question. See him on the rugby podcast with Tindall and Haskell. I think people assume from his onfield persona that he's a bit of a dick but actually he's a funny guy that seems popular at both Tigers and England.

If you want to see what he's about go look at the Ulster game where he got subbed off and immediately went to the Ulster bench to see how John Cooney was. The same player he had his arm round at the end of the game joking with.

Maybe Gatland doesn't fancy someone who's not afraid to speak his mind, he's not sent Marler and email either and he's similar when it comes to speaking his mind these days.

by Guest Thu 06 May 2021, 9:41 am

formerly known as Sam wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:I certainly wouldn't agree with all those. Think Genge is a class prop and I'd take him and a number of others over the likely pick of Vunipola. Daly is meh at best but at a stretch can play about par at wing and slightly above at 13 and 15 and with the smaller squad could be useful (really stretching there). As I said I'd prefer to name the captain once you know the team but the same happened last time I suppose. Sexton....I'm just hoping he doesn't take Smith.

No one is going to agree on all Gatland's choices.

Well you need to speak to Genge then, as I do not think he has been approached.

I'm very surprised Genge wasn't at least sent an email to ask him if he's available. He might only be in consideration as third choice behind the form Wyn Jones and Sutherland but he does a bit of everything and does it well. For him not to be in contention at all seems crazy to me, I reckon he's one of those that would be great fun in camp as well.

I'm gonna be a bit controversial here - is it perhaps his attitude? He comes across as a very 'narky' guy. Maybe he's not seen as someone good for the squad and to be in camp? Just an observation. That's how I perceive him from the outside looking in but England fans might not agree.

There's Genge fired up for the game and then there's Genge off the pitch. He's probably the most honest rugby player currently playing because he always gives an honest answer to any question. See him on the rugby podcast with Tindall and Haskell. I think people assume from his onfield persona that he's a bit of a dick but actually he's a funny guy that seems popular at both Tigers and England.

If you want to see what he's about go look at the Ulster game where he got subbed off and immediately went to the Ulster bench to see how John Cooney was. The same player he had his arm round at the end of the game joking with.

Maybe Gatland doesn't fancy someone who's not afraid to speak his mind, he's not sent Marler and email either and he's similar when it comes to speaking his mind these days.

I doubt that. One of the things the Welsh players have praised about the Gatland era was the environment he created where everyone, regardless of seniority in the squad, was able to have their say, contribute to sessions, make suggestions, and he encouraged them to own their mistakes and their performances, to discus them, etc.

Maybe its things like refusing to clap the opposition players off in a recent 6N game while his teammates stood there doing it. Like you say, he comes across as a bit of a d*ck. He says he forgot or didn't know or zoned out or something. Yeah right. The guy was being an ar*e!

Edit: on the Marler point perhaps it was the fact he'd made himself unavailable for internationals lately?

by alive555 Thu 06 May 2021, 9:42 am

lostinwales wrote:
alive555 wrote:
lostinwales wrote:
alive555 wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:DVM has a great chance but there's big question marks regarding his defence and rightly so.

Do his attacking attributes outweigh his potential defensive issues? I'd be inclined to take him tbh, just for the potential match up against Kolbe...it would be immense to watch.

Total Nonsense

MISSED TACKLES 6 NATIONS

DVM - 3 IN 400 MINS
LRZ - 9 IN 400 MINS
MAY - 5 IN 400 MINS
ADAMS - 9 IN 240 MINS
WATSON - 7 IN 395 MINS

DVM had the best defensive stats.

According to that stats site DVM made 13 tackles and missed 3 - 18.75%
May made 25 and missed 5 - so 16.67%

So you are wrong

sharpen up i said "missed tackles"

but anyway np lets use tackles and missed tackles

here you go

made / missed

DVM - 13 /3 in 400 min = missed 1 every 92 min or 23%
May - 25/ 5 in 400 min = missed 1 every 80 min or 20%
Watson - 15 / 7 in 395 = missed 1 every 56 min or 50%
RZ - 28/ 9 IN 400 = missed 1 every 44 min or 32%
Adams - 10 / 6 in 240 = missed 1 every 40 min or 60%

So he missed the fewest tackles of all the wingers in the 6n, and as a % of tackles he was literally the same as May .

So if you want to see who is the defensive liability need look no further than the stats above.

This is an exercise of the futility of statistics, or making them say what you want, or stretching a little knowledge a very very long way. On your basis the best defensive winger is the guy who avoids making any tackles at all.

I never said that at all. You have all the stats for all the wingers in full.

Is dvm a "defensive liability" according to the stats

No.

Adams is though

by mikey_dragon Thu 06 May 2021, 9:44 am

Is the squad naming on live TV, like it usually is? I can't seem to find it.

by alive555 Thu 06 May 2021, 9:47 am

mikey_dragon wrote:Is the squad naming on live TV, like it usually is? I can't seem to find it.

youtube, jim hamilton

by Sgt_Pooly Thu 06 May 2021, 9:47 am

Missed tackles is such a deceiving stat, I don't know why it's continually peddled out on here.

For a start...being poor in defence isn't just tackling, there's also positioning/receiving the high ball etc. Some players, especially back 3, are poor defensively because they don't even get in a position to make a tackle, never mind miss it. I would suggest that DVM falls into this category actually...he gets caught out a lot by not being in the correct position.

I'd like to state though, I'm a big fan of his.

by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 06 May 2021, 9:50 am

formerly known as Sam wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:I certainly wouldn't agree with all those. Think Genge is a class prop and I'd take him and a number of others over the likely pick of Vunipola. Daly is meh at best but at a stretch can play about par at wing and slightly above at 13 and 15 and with the smaller squad could be useful (really stretching there). As I said I'd prefer to name the captain once you know the team but the same happened last time I suppose. Sexton....I'm just hoping he doesn't take Smith.

No one is going to agree on all Gatland's choices.

Well you need to speak to Genge then, as I do not think he has been approached.

I'm very surprised Genge wasn't at least sent an email to ask him if he's available. He might only be in consideration as third choice behind the form Wyn Jones and Sutherland but he does a bit of everything and does it well. For him not to be in contention at all seems crazy to me, I reckon he's one of those that would be great fun in camp as well.

Is it possible that Genge is having us all on?

by lostinwales Thu 06 May 2021, 9:50 am

alive555 wrote:
lostinwales wrote:
alive555 wrote:
lostinwales wrote:
alive555 wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:DVM has a great chance but there's big question marks regarding his defence and rightly so.

Do his attacking attributes outweigh his potential defensive issues? I'd be inclined to take him tbh, just for the potential match up against Kolbe...it would be immense to watch.

Total Nonsense

MISSED TACKLES 6 NATIONS

DVM - 3 IN 400 MINS
LRZ - 9 IN 400 MINS
MAY - 5 IN 400 MINS
ADAMS - 9 IN 240 MINS
WATSON - 7 IN 395 MINS

DVM had the best defensive stats.

According to that stats site DVM made 13 tackles and missed 3 - 18.75%
May made 25 and missed 5 - so 16.67%

So you are wrong

sharpen up i said "missed tackles"

but anyway np lets use tackles and missed tackles

here you go

made / missed

DVM - 13 /3 in 400 min = missed 1 every 92 min or 23%
May - 25/ 5 in 400 min = missed 1 every 80 min or 20%
Watson - 15 / 7 in 395 = missed 1 every 56 min or 50%
RZ - 28/ 9 IN 400 = missed 1 every 44 min or 32%
Adams - 10 / 6 in 240 = missed 1 every 40 min or 60%

So he missed the fewest tackles of all the wingers in the 6n, and as a % of tackles he was literally the same as May .

So if you want to see who is the defensive liability need look no further than the stats above.

This is an exercise of the futility of statistics, or making them say what you want, or stretching a little knowledge a very very long way. On your basis the best defensive winger is the guy who avoids making any tackles at all.

I never said that at all. You have all the stats for all the wingers in full.

Is dvm a "defensive liability" according to the stats

No.

Adams is though

Now you are moving your position which is good. DVM doesn't appear to be a defensive liability which is good. It would be interesting to see how many tries were scored against the different wingers on their flank, as that would also be a useful measure.

But you don't pick DVM just for his defense.

by formerly known as Sam Thu 06 May 2021, 9:53 am

The Oracle wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:I certainly wouldn't agree with all those. Think Genge is a class prop and I'd take him and a number of others over the likely pick of Vunipola. Daly is meh at best but at a stretch can play about par at wing and slightly above at 13 and 15 and with the smaller squad could be useful (really stretching there). As I said I'd prefer to name the captain once you know the team but the same happened last time I suppose. Sexton....I'm just hoping he doesn't take Smith.

No one is going to agree on all Gatland's choices.

Well you need to speak to Genge then, as I do not think he has been approached.

I'm very surprised Genge wasn't at least sent an email to ask him if he's available. He might only be in consideration as third choice behind the form Wyn Jones and Sutherland but he does a bit of everything and does it well. For him not to be in contention at all seems crazy to me, I reckon he's one of those that would be great fun in camp as well.

I'm gonna be a bit controversial here - is it perhaps his attitude? He comes across as a very 'narky' guy. Maybe he's not seen as someone good for the squad and to be in camp? Just an observation. That's how I perceive him from the outside looking in but England fans might not agree.

There's Genge fired up for the game and then there's Genge off the pitch. He's probably the most honest rugby player currently playing because he always gives an honest answer to any question. See him on the rugby podcast with Tindall and Haskell. I think people assume from his onfield persona that he's a bit of a dick but actually he's a funny guy that seems popular at both Tigers and England.

If you want to see what he's about go look at the Ulster game where he got subbed off and immediately went to the Ulster bench to see how John Cooney was. The same player he had his arm round at the end of the game joking with.

Maybe Gatland doesn't fancy someone who's not afraid to speak his mind, he's not sent Marler and email either and he's similar when it comes to speaking his mind these days.

I doubt that. One of the things the Welsh players have praised about the Gatland era was the environment he created where everyone, regardless of seniority in the squad, was able to have their say, contribute to sessions, make suggestions, and he encouraged them to own their mistakes and their performances, to discus them, etc.

Maybe its things like refusing to clap the opposition players off in a recent 6N game while his teammates stood there doing it. Like you say, he comes across as a bit of a d*ck. He says he forgot or didn't know or zoned out or something. Yeah right. The guy was being an ar*e!

Edit: on the Marler point perhaps it was the fact he'd made himself unavailable for internationals lately?

The thing he apologised for immediately after? If he doesn't offer apologies just because Sexton didn't get one. As I said he's an honest guy that'll face the questions put to him. What he actually said was "no idea what I'm doing here" and then congratulated the Welsh team.

He does enjoy some niggle but then so does AWJ. I think he's just a player that the opposition love to hate like AWJ and Biggar for Wales or Sexton for Ireland. There's actually a number of Tigers fans that consider him future captain material.

I would very much suggest looking at his interviews he's actually a humble and honest bloke. Funny as well. In a recent interview when someone mentioned Warburton talking him up for the tour his reply was " yeah and if you ask my dad he'd have me as captain". In fact the whole answer was worth a read.

Marler came out of retirement for the world cup. I'm surprised no one asked him whether he'd make himself available for the Lions.

by Sgt_Pooly Thu 06 May 2021, 9:55 am

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:I certainly wouldn't agree with all those. Think Genge is a class prop and I'd take him and a number of others over the likely pick of Vunipola. Daly is meh at best but at a stretch can play about par at wing and slightly above at 13 and 15 and with the smaller squad could be useful (really stretching there). As I said I'd prefer to name the captain once you know the team but the same happened last time I suppose. Sexton....I'm just hoping he doesn't take Smith.

No one is going to agree on all Gatland's choices.

Well you need to speak to Genge then, as I do not think he has been approached.

I'm very surprised Genge wasn't at least sent an email to ask him if he's available. He might only be in consideration as third choice behind the form Wyn Jones and Sutherland but he does a bit of everything and does it well. For him not to be in contention at all seems crazy to me, I reckon he's one of those that would be great fun in camp as well.

Is it possible that Genge is having us all on?

Genge hasn't impressed over the last year, I would imagine his stock has fallen quite a bit internationally. Not only has he struggled to make any impact, he's also been involved in a fair few niggly incidents. I would extremely surprised if he was in contention at all....he'd be well down my list.

by No 7&1/2 Thu 06 May 2021, 9:57 am

Jamie George is the main culprit for all the things that Genge, Sinckler and Itoje are singled out for in the England pack. Whether that be clapping and celebrating turnovers or getting involved in off the ball stuff.

There's a video of Genge going over to check on the guy who went off with a head injury recently, didn't get shared as much as him not clapping (which many players haven't done in the past). If he's not considered because he's a surly front row then ffs, Gatland is worse than I thought!

by Sgt_Pooly Thu 06 May 2021, 10:00 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Jamie George is the main culprit for all the things that Genge, Sinckler and Itoje are singled out for in the England pack. Whether that be clapping and celebrating turnovers or getting involved in off the ball stuff.

There's a video of Genge going over to check on the guy who went off with a head injury recently, didn't get shared as much as him not clapping (which many players haven't done in the past). If he's not considered because he's a surly front row then ffs, Gatland is worse than I thought!

If he was ripping up trees at Int level I would agree, but he's not.

by Geordie Thu 06 May 2021, 10:10 am

So looking like AJW will be the captain.

by Sgt_Pooly Thu 06 May 2021, 10:17 am

Let's try and keep it clean today ladies and gentlemen. Bans will be handed out for any poster continually overstepping the mark.

I have my orders and you have been warned, please play nice thumbsup

by Poorfour Thu 06 May 2021, 10:22 am

Sgt_Pooly wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Jamie George is the main culprit for all the things that Genge, Sinckler and Itoje are singled out for in the England pack. Whether that be clapping and celebrating turnovers or getting involved in off the ball stuff.

There's a video of Genge going over to check on the guy who went off with a head injury recently, didn't get shared as much as him not clapping (which many players haven't done in the past). If he's not considered because he's a surly front row then ffs, Gatland is worse than I thought!

If he was ripping up trees at Int level I would agree, but he's not.

I agree - Genge was pretty poor in the 6N, especially in the scrum, and the Lions will need a strong setpiece. He shouldn't travel on that basis.

Apparently WOL mistakenly breached the embargo and tweeted a squad list earlier - if the screenshot I have seen is correct, then the props are Jones, Sutherland and Healy (with Mako on injury standby for Sutherland), Furlong, Sinckler and Porter. Assuming Marler wasn't available, that looks like the right selection for South Africa.

by TightHEAD Thu 06 May 2021, 10:23 am

Would rather Hogg was Captain, no one better than him at FB, 1st name on the team sheet imho.

Sets a marker with how we are going to play too. thumbsup

by Oakdene Thu 06 May 2021, 10:24 am

TightHEAD wrote:Would rather Hogg was Captain, no one better than him at FB, 1st name on the team sheet imho.

Sets a marker with how we are going to play too.

For me Wyn Jones is the first name on the team sheet based on the last few months of rugby.

by No 7&1/2 Thu 06 May 2021, 10:25 am

Poorfour wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Jamie George is the main culprit for all the things that Genge, Sinckler and Itoje are singled out for in the England pack. Whether that be clapping and celebrating turnovers or getting involved in off the ball stuff.

There's a video of Genge going over to check on the guy who went off with a head injury recently, didn't get shared as much as him not clapping (which many players haven't done in the past). If he's not considered because he's a surly front row then ffs, Gatland is worse than I thought!

If he was ripping up trees at Int level I would agree, but he's not.

I agree - Genge was pretty poor in the 6N, especially in the scrum, and the Lions will need a strong setpiece. He shouldn't travel on that basis.

Apparently WOL mistakenly breached the embargo and tweeted a squad list earlier - if the screenshot I have seen is correct, then the props are Jones, Sutherland and Healy (with Mako on injury standby for Sutherland), Furlong, Sinckler and Porter. Assuming Marler wasn't available, that looks like the right selection for South Africa.

My point wasn't around performance merely a response to the thoughts that he would be bad for the environment.

by mikey_dragon Thu 06 May 2021, 10:29 am

If true then I believe Tomas Francis is unlucky.

by formerly known as Sam Thu 06 May 2021, 10:30 am

Poorfour wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Jamie George is the main culprit for all the things that Genge, Sinckler and Itoje are singled out for in the England pack. Whether that be clapping and celebrating turnovers or getting involved in off the ball stuff.

There's a video of Genge going over to check on the guy who went off with a head injury recently, didn't get shared as much as him not clapping (which many players haven't done in the past). If he's not considered because he's a surly front row then ffs, Gatland is worse than I thought!

If he was ripping up trees at Int level I would agree, but he's not.

I agree - Genge was pretty poor in the 6N, especially in the scrum, and the Lions will need a strong setpiece. He shouldn't travel on that basis.

Scrum? He was brought on Vs Ireland to stop the scrum going backwards and did alright. His set piece was fine for me what I was disappointed with in the 6N was the lack of impact in his carrying. That's normally a huge part of his game and something that would have put him right up there as it's like having another 8 carrying at times. I think it might have been the general England malaise.

He's certainly not had any problem at Tigers where he was incredible Vs Ulster and dismantled Will Stuart a couple of weeks back Vs Bath.

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