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Australia V France

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Australia V France - Page 2 Empty Australia V France

Post by hugehandoff Mon 05 Jul 2021, 11:59 am

First topic message reminder :

Wallabies plump for new halves combination for France Test Jake Gordon and Noah Lolesio named to start in Brisbane. Australia to play France three times in 11 days

Jake Gordon and Noah Lolesio will form a new Wallabies halves combination for the opening Test against France in Brisbane on Wednesday night. Gordon overcame a knee injury to win the battle with Tate McDermott to wear the vacant halfback jersey at Suncorp Stadium with regular starter Nic White sidelined.

With James O’Connor also injured, Brumbies young gun Lolesio gets his second start after making his Test debut at five-eighth last year against the All Blacks in an unhappy outing with the Wallabies pummelled 43-5.

Wallabies must heed Rennie’s call for ruthlessness in France Tests
While Queenslander McDermott impressed on home turf during the Super Rugby AU season, Wallabies coach Dave Rennie instead opted for the mature head of Gordon, who will turn 28 on game eve.
The NSW Waratahs captain injured his knee in the penultimate game of Super Rugby Trans-Tasman, putting him in severe doubt for the three-Test France series. But the injury healed in time for him to earn his second Test start and sixth overall, after being in the XV to face Italy in Padua on Australia’s spring tour in 2018.

Veteran Matt Toomua will line up alongside 21-year-old Lolesio after recovering from a neck injury, joining Hunter Paisami in the centres. The front row sees Brumbies teammates James Slipper and Allan Alaalatoa as the starting props, with Brandon Paenga-Amosa named at hooker.

Lock Matt Philip returns to the gold jersey after his stint playing in France and will partner Lukhan Salakaia-Loto while Brumbies bruiser Rob Valetini gets his first Test start at blindside flanker. Skipper Michael Hooper and No 8 Harry Wilson complete the backrow.

Rennie has named four potential Wallabies debutants on the bench in three Brumbies – hooker Lachlan Lonergan, lock Darcy Swain and centre Len Ikitau – and utility Rebels back Andrew Kellaway. Kellaway, 25, is the biggest surprise after only returning to Melbourne from Japan at the start of the trans-Tasman competition.

Rennie said the team had prepared well for the France series, which will be completed in just 11 days with the second Test in Melbourne on 13 July before the final Test in Brisbane again on 17 July.

“The whole squad has been training really hard over the past three weeks to prepare for what’s going to be an exciting, tough series against the French,” Rennie said. “We’ve always selected a side based on earning the right to wear the jersey and this team is no different.”

Wallabies: Tom Banks, Tom Wright, Hunter Paisami, Matt Toomua, Marika Koroibete, Noah Lolesio, Jake Gordon, Harry Wilson, Michael Hooper (captain), Rob Valetini, Lukhan Salakaia-Loto, Matt Philip, Allan Alaalatoa, Brandon Paenga-Amosa, James Slipper. Res: Lachlan Lonergan, Angus Bell, Taniela Tupou, Darcy Swain, Isi Naisarani, Tate McDermott, Len Ikitau, Andrew Kellaway.

France
Newly promoted fullback Melvyn Jaminet is among seven uncapped players named by France head coach Fabien Galthie on Saturday to face Australia. Jaminet, 22, played an integral role in guiding Perpignan to promotion to the Top 14. Castres hooker Gaetan Barlot will also make his debut for Les Bleus on Wednesday in a team missing a host of first-choice players who played in last week's Top 14 final and would not have had time to complete Covid-19 quarantine after entering Australia.
Winger Damian Penaud, centre Arthur Vincent and stand-in captain Anthony Jelonch are amongst those from the last round of the Six Nations, a loss to Scotland in March. On the bench, forwards Anthony Etrillard, Quentin Walcker, Sipili Falatea and Florent Vanverberghe, as well as 30-year-old scrum-half Teddy Iribaren are poised to make their first international appearances.

“The players have everything to gain," French coach Fabien Galthié said.

"It is the opportunity for many to assert themselves, to reveal themselves, and to take a place in the XV of France two and a half years before the World Cup."

The 2023 Rugby World Cup hosts will complete the three-Test series against the Wallabies on July 13 and 17.

Next week's first Test was moved to Brisbane after Sydney was put into a two-week lockdown to contain an outbreak of the Covid-19 Delta variant.

FRANCE TEAM TO PLAY THE WALLABIES
FRANCE (15-1): Melvyn Jaminet; Damian Penaud, Arthur Vincent, Jonathan Danty, Gabin Villiere; Louis Carbonel, Baptiste Couilloud; Sekou Macalou, Anthony Jelonch (capt), Dylan Cretin; Romain Taofifenua, Killian Geraci; Demba Bamba, Gaetan Barlot, Jean-Baptiste Gros

Reserves: Anthony Etrillard, Quentin Walcker, Sipili Falatea, Florent Vanverberghe, Baptiste Pesenti, Cameron Woki, Teddy Iribaren, Anthony Bouthier

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Post by RDW Tue 13 Jul 2021, 12:58 pm

I thought the ref was incredibly loose in the rucks generally. So many players flopping over and not getting penalised. A lot of the turnovers came from players off their feet.

Made for an exciting game at least!

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Post by Old Man Tue 13 Jul 2021, 1:00 pm

Aussies just need to slow the game down at crucial times, regroup before attacking helter skelter, they remind me of the Sigma Lions, always taking risks when sober thought will get them out of dange zones. Too many wild/50/50 passes in close contact. I get they want to up the pace, but you first need to ensure you have control of the gainline.

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Post by Rugby Fan Tue 13 Jul 2021, 1:03 pm

These games have been a rare highlight in a summer of so many mismatches. Looking forward to the decider.

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Post by RDW Tue 13 Jul 2021, 1:28 pm

I do see a lot of similarities between Scotland of a few years ago and this current Australia team. Young, talented team with an attack minded coach who is new to international rugby playing a fast paced, exciting game.

I'm sure if they keep going like that they'll get a few exciting wins, but it's not sustainable at test level as Scotland learnt badly in the world cup. It's not a style of play that can be relied upon when the stakes are high, and there's no plan B if you come up against a team who slows you down.

It'll take time but I'm sure they will learn. Either way, it's great to see Australia with some swagger back after a bleak few years.

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Post by LordDowlais Tue 13 Jul 2021, 1:50 pm

Well, I'm knackered after that game, back to work now then. Laugh Laugh Laugh

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Post by TightHEAD Tue 13 Jul 2021, 1:59 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Well, I'm knackered after that game, back to work now then. Laugh Laugh Laugh

England under 20s is on.

Never understand why these games are on when kids would like to watch but are at school. Doh
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Post by LordDowlais Tue 13 Jul 2021, 2:00 pm

TightHEAD wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Well, I'm knackered after that game, back to work now then. Laugh Laugh Laugh

England under 20s is on.

Never understand why these games are on when kids would like to watch but are at school. Doh

I would love to, but I already sneaked home for an early lunch to catch some of the France game, and I got engrossed and ended up watching all of it, back to the lunatic asylum now. Laugh

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Post by hugehandoff Wed 14 Jul 2021, 4:46 pm

Great match and series so far. Two sides trying to play positive rugby but making too many errors. Woki outstanding. Ref too lenient on the Aussies.

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Post by RDW Sat 17 Jul 2021, 11:17 am

Absolute shambles of a decision to red card Koriobete early on. Never, ever a red.

I'm all for protecting players but that's a dreadful decision.

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Post by Duty281 Sat 17 Jul 2021, 11:18 am

Aussie sent off after 5 minutes, probably decides the game and series. Australian commentators furious.

I think it was the right call, but there was perhaps a drop in height from the French player which might have secured enough mitigation for it to be downgraded to a yellow with a more lenient referee.

This is why I don't like red cards in their present format. Because of one player's mistake the entire Australian team has little to no chance for the rest of the contest. By all means punish the player for a transgression, but it's wrong to punish the whole team. A fairer system would remove the red-carded Australian from the game permanently, but allow Australia to sub in a replacement after 10-20 minutes.


Last edited by Duty281 on Sat 17 Jul 2021, 11:21 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Poorfour Sat 17 Jul 2021, 11:20 am

RDW wrote:Absolute shambles of a decision to red card Koriobete early on. Never, ever a red.

I'm all for protecting players but that's a dreadful decision.

How is it not a red? There’s direct shoulder contact to the head at speed with no mitigating factors. Yes, the French 8 dips into the tackle - but tacklers are required to allow for that in the tackle height.

It’s unfortunate that it’s happened so early in the game, but it’s the right call by under the process that’s been in place for the past year.
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Post by RDW Sat 17 Jul 2021, 11:20 am

I don't think it was even clear he made head contact in the first  place. And the French player clearly dipped down just before contact so there is clear mitigation.

Such a poor decision.


Last edited by RDW on Sat 17 Jul 2021, 11:22 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by RDW Sat 17 Jul 2021, 11:22 am

Poorfour wrote:
RDW wrote:Absolute shambles of a decision to red card Koriobete early on. Never, ever a red.

I'm all for protecting players but that's a dreadful decision.

How is it not a red? There’s direct shoulder contact to the head at speed with no mitigating factors. Yes, the French 8 dips into the tackle - but tacklers are required to allow for that in the tackle height.

It’s unfortunate that it’s happened so early in the game, but it’s the right call by under the process that’s been in place for the past year.

That's a new one to me - how is a tackler meant to second guess if a player is going to dip down when flying into a tackle?

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Post by Poorfour Sat 17 Jul 2021, 11:31 am

Because ball carriers tend to do that quite a lot?

Viewed in real time, the 8 didn’t do anything unexpected: he caught the ball, and primed himself to run with it - and then was hit.

There’s mitigation if the ball carrier is tripped or pushed over by someone else, because you can’t predict that. But as a tackler you are supposed to allow for things that a ball carrier might reasonably do. And dipping to start your run is one of them.
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Post by RDW Sat 17 Jul 2021, 11:31 am

Will need to see the replays again but from what they showed at the time I didn't see an angle that showed he actually hit the head. Plus the mitigation that the 8 dipped before contact. There's more than enough doubt there IMO that it wasn't a red.

There were worse tackles unpunished in the last Lions game!

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Post by Old Man Sat 17 Jul 2021, 11:32 am

RDW wrote:
Poorfour wrote:
RDW wrote:Absolute shambles of a decision to red card Koriobete early on. Never, ever a red.

I'm all for protecting players but that's a dreadful decision.

How is it not a red? There’s direct shoulder contact to the head at speed with no mitigating factors. Yes, the French 8 dips into the tackle - but tacklers are required to allow for that in the tackle height.

It’s unfortunate that it’s happened so early in the game, but it’s the right call by under the process that’s been in place for the past year.

That's a new one to me - how is a tackler meant to second guess if a player is going to dip down when flying into a tackle?

That is why I have an issue with interpretations of the red card. Yes we don’t all see it the same way, which just emphasises the fact that these decisions are controversial.

It remains a contact sport, and accidental head shots are going to occur. There should be a question asked about intent from the tackler, if it looks like a legitimate attempted tackle, Red cards should be mitigated.

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Post by RDW Sat 17 Jul 2021, 11:35 am

Poorfour wrote:Because ball carriers tend to do that quite a lot?

Viewed in real time, the 8 didn’t do anything unexpected: he caught the ball, and primed himself to run with it - and then was hit.

There’s mitigation if the ball carrier is tripped or pushed over by someone else, because you can’t predict that. But as a tackler you are supposed to allow for things that a ball carrier might reasonably do. And dipping to start your run is one of them.

I've honestly never heard any referee mention that the tackler should have second guessed that the ball carrier would dip down before the tackle. These decisions are contentious enough - how is a player meant to second guess that?

There were more dangerous tackles unpunished in the last Lions game!

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Post by TJ Sat 17 Jul 2021, 11:38 am

The tackler as far as I am aware does not have to anticipate a dip. ~they do however have to at least attempt to tackle legally ie have to be crouched

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Post by Rugby Fan Sat 17 Jul 2021, 11:38 am

On first viewing, it looked like it could be a red, which is why it was surprising to hear the Australia commentators dismiss the possibility. A number of referees in the game today would have awarded red, so we have to accept that's what they are being asked to do, or change the laws. The play acting by the French No.8 was very unwholesome but, even if was deemed unsporting conduct, it wouldn't have reversed the card.

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Post by TJ Sat 17 Jul 2021, 11:41 am

There should be a question asked about intent from the tackler, if it looks like a legitimate attempted tackle, Red cards should be mitigated.

allowed for - attempted legal tackle they look at mitigation. No arms tackle they do not

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Post by Old Man Sat 17 Jul 2021, 11:42 am

TJ wrote:
There should be a question asked about intent from the tackler, if it looks like a legitimate attempted tackle, Red cards should be mitigated.

allowed for - attempted legal tackle they look at mitigation.  No arms tackle they do not

Some do, considering the Argentinian tackle last weekend, it wasn’t even considered

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Post by Poorfour Sat 17 Jul 2021, 11:52 am

World Rugby’s head contact framework says:

World Rugby wrote: There needs to be an understanding that tacklers stay up to allow them to ‘adjust and react’ - dropping quickly into the low tackle entry position - using their ‘eyes and feet’ to get their timing right.

Mitigation is allowed for “Sudden and significant drop or movement” - clearly there’s some room for interpretation in that, but that mitigation has only usually been applied when a player has moved in a way that’s well outside the normal course of play.

World Rugby guidelines
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Post by RDW Sat 17 Jul 2021, 11:52 am

Just watched the replays several times. For the avoidance of doubt, if Koriobete had just gone a bit lower we wouldn't be having this debate, and I guess that's the point of why the refs are being so strict on this.

But for me there's no clear contact with the head. Running it slowly, he hits (very) upper chest and the head flops over Koriobete's shoulder from the impact. The fact that the ref wasn't willing to consider any mitigation at all is the issue here. Given it's not conclusive he hit the head, and the fact that the 8 ducked before the tackle, makes more than enough mitigation to reduce from a red.

What doesn't help is that we struggled to hear the refs thinking as the commentators kept talking over him!

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Post by RDW Sat 17 Jul 2021, 11:54 am

Once again though this is a great game! These 3 tests have been the most exciting of all the July rugby so far.

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Post by doctor_grey Sat 17 Jul 2021, 11:55 am

Just put the match on a few minutes ago, so missed the red infraction. The problem for me is the Aussie commentators are so up, it is hard to deal with their energy right after waking up and still sipping coffee. Seems like a good competitive match, though France looks like the better attacking side from the little I have seen so far..

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat 17 Jul 2021, 11:56 am

RDW wrote:I don't think it was even clear he made head contact in the first  place. And the  French player clearly dipped down just before contact so there is clear mitigation.

Such a poor decision.

Just watching this now. Looks like he ducks into it slightly. Plenty of force, very close to red and yellow. The run into it probably did for him....and the blatant cheating by the Frenchman who was clutching his face where there was absolute no contact. Dont like that aspect of it.

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Post by Poorfour Sat 17 Jul 2021, 11:57 am

What’s done is done. The decision isn’t being changed now - but for what it’s worth I thought the angle from the right hand side showed pretty clear contact from Koroibete’s shoulder onto the head/neck area, which is enough to trigger the protocol.

It hasn’t stopped it being a cracking game, though - Australia are making the most of their chances and Hooper is putting in a very good performance. France ought to be well up, but their lineout is misfiring and they are giving away some dumb penalties.
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Post by RDW Sat 17 Jul 2021, 11:59 am

Great half - Hooper has been great this series.

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Post by Duty281 Sat 17 Jul 2021, 12:00 pm

Has been a good game. Australia playing at full-throttle intensity with 14, so I'm expecting them to tire in the second half and start to drop off tackles.

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Post by doctor_grey Sat 17 Jul 2021, 12:03 pm

Bloody hell, Dave Campese looks old!

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Post by RDW Sat 17 Jul 2021, 12:03 pm

Worth noting the clever bit of captaincy from Hooper during the red debate - reminding the ref if the 8 had indeed been hit in the head he would need to go off for an HIA!

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Post by Heaf Sat 17 Jul 2021, 12:08 pm

Damn - forgot this was on and missed the first half - doubly annoying as I've paid for Sky for a month to watch the Lions and it's on the same channel ...

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Post by RDW Sat 17 Jul 2021, 12:09 pm

It's crazy how close this series has been - 200 minutes in and scores are even

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Post by RDW Sat 17 Jul 2021, 12:23 pm

Ooft that was a hell of a try

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Post by RDW Sat 17 Jul 2021, 12:27 pm

Tupou is such a freak of nature - would love to see him up against top NH packs to see how good he really is. And he's still young in prop years!

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Post by RDW Sat 17 Jul 2021, 12:36 pm

That's a hell of a lot of penalties building up against the French now

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Post by RDW Sat 17 Jul 2021, 12:39 pm

I think that's 7 pens in a row. No warning?

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Post by RDW Sat 17 Jul 2021, 12:55 pm

64% Aus possession - you wouldn't know they were the man down. They desperately needed more points from 10 minutes of almost uninterrupted possession though.


Crazy decision from the 8 to tap and go a free kick on the French line when the Aussie scrum was demolishing the French. Almost got away with it with a try but was then disallowed, and France got the ball back and made it 60m up the pitch. Fine margins in test rugby!

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Post by Duty281 Sat 17 Jul 2021, 1:00 pm

What an incredible effort from Australia. clap

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Post by RDW Sat 17 Jul 2021, 1:02 pm

What a win Australia. That's the kind of win that can really propel a young team to the next level.

That's got to be one of the most exciting test series in years!

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Post by RDW Sat 17 Jul 2021, 1:37 pm

Well it's definitely putting it mildly to say the red has massively divided the rugby community. Looking at the views of pundits/ex players and the general public, it's pretty contrasting camps of "nonsense red" and "definite red" with not much in the middle.

That in itself suggests it was far from clear cut a red which is the point I was leading with. Thing is though, when it's a close call is it better to err on the side of player welfare or 'ruining the spectacle'? There should really be only one winner there, but there are of course several shades of grey with these type of things

Some people are also using this as justification of reds only being 20 minutes then you can bring someone else on. In this instance that would be a reasonable compromise, however you can hardly say the spectacle was ruined because of it! If anything the red added to the drama of the test.

It's funny how things work out eh?

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Post by Old Man Sat 17 Jul 2021, 1:49 pm

Just saw the Koroibete tackle, again, front on tackle, the reciever only has to duck slightly and chances are you are going to connect the head.

These front on tackles have a 50/50 chances of some contact with the head.

Soon there will be no pressure on the reciever anymore.

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Post by Duty281 Sat 17 Jul 2021, 1:50 pm

I thought it was a red when I saw it in real-time. On seeing the replay I thought it could have been either red or yellow. It was an incredibly dangerous tackle, seemed to make initial contact with the head/neck area, so that points to red. On the other hand the French player did dip which may have lowered it to yellow. I'm fine with the decision the referee made and thought the incredibly partisan Australian commentary was pathetic.

Did think the red would ruin the contest but, as it turned out, it kept the game tight and interesting. Australia would have won by a distance had it been 15 v 15 throughout.

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Post by doctor_grey Sat 17 Jul 2021, 3:55 pm

This was a fun test to watch. Shame about the red, but was down to the wire.

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Post by Dirtydave Sat 17 Jul 2021, 4:54 pm

How did France play? I looked at the line up and couldn't believe how young and inexperienced that team was, to lose the series over Aus by what 3 points over 3 games?

Amazing!

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Post by RDW Sat 17 Jul 2021, 11:11 pm

France had a really good series. Their forwards were incredibly strong with some freakish athletes in the backrow in particular.

It was such a good test series and very evenly matched. Australia are in a huge rebuilding phase too and it was s good really important win.

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Australia V France - Page 2 Empty Re: Australia V France

Post by doctor_grey Sun 18 Jul 2021, 1:09 am

RDW wrote:France had a really good series. Their forwards were incredibly strong with some freakish athletes in the backrow in particular.

It was such a good test series and very evenly matched. Australia are in a huge rebuilding phase too and it was s good really important win.
It was also good to see what appeared to be a full stadium.

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Australia V France - Page 2 Empty Re: Australia V France

Post by RDW Sun 18 Jul 2021, 1:30 am

doctor_grey wrote:
RDW wrote:France had a really good series. Their forwards were incredibly strong with some freakish athletes in the backrow in particular.

It was such a good test series and very evenly matched. Australia are in a huge rebuilding phase too and it was s good really important win.
It was also good to see what appeared to be a full stadium.

Yeah Queensland is alright just now. New South Wales is in full lockdown for the foreseeable future, and it appears to be spreading to other states Crying or Very sad

That's the problem with Australia's elimination strategy - even a few cases is too many!

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Australia V France - Page 2 Empty Re: Australia V France

Post by Old Man Mon 19 Jul 2021, 12:56 pm

Koroibete has been cleared.

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Australia V France - Page 2 Empty Re: Australia V France

Post by Soul Requiem Mon 19 Jul 2021, 1:00 pm

RDW wrote:I don't think it was even clear he made head contact in the first  place. And the  French player clearly dipped down just before contact so there is clear mitigation.

Such a poor decision.

If you're making direct contact to the head after a player dips down you're starting tackle height is too high and you're leaving yourself open for a red card, just start lower.

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Australia V France - Page 2 Empty Re: Australia V France

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