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URC Round 2

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PhilBB
mikey_dragon
Pete330v2
Brendan
The Oracle
profitius
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Old Man
neilthom7
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URC Round 2 Empty URC Round 2

Post by neilthom7 Wed 29 Sep 2021, 10:27 am

A place for discussion of all the round 2 games of the United Rugby Championship 2021/2022.

The games this week are:

Friday 1st October 2021
Connacht v Bulls 19:35
Scarlets v Lions 19:35

Saturday 2nd October 2021
Benetton v Edinburgh 13:00
Glasgow v Sharks 15:00
Zebre v Ulster 17:15
Munster v Stormers 19:35
Ospreys v Cardiff 19:35

Sunday 3rd October 2021
Dragons v Leinster 14:00

All times BST

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Post by neilthom7 Wed 29 Sep 2021, 10:28 am

Some interesting games there, outside of the Ulster game I think I’m looking forward to see how Munster v Stormers goes, the Welsh derby and that Edinburgh v Treviso game

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Post by Old Man Wed 29 Sep 2021, 10:56 am

Bulls need to lay down a marker, even if without their Boks, they would want to get some wins in Europe.

Would be great if the Lions (the SA underdogs) get another win.

Think the Stormers are in for another loss.

Could the Sharks perhaps make it one out of two?

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Post by neilthom7 Wed 29 Sep 2021, 11:02 am

Glasgow looked good against Ulster last week but didn’t get the win so I’m sure they will be chomping at the bit to get a home win this weekend v sharks.

Bulls have a chance v Connacht. They didn’t start good last weekend and Bulls looked okay v Leinster but in the end Leinsters internationals were able to capitalise on mistakes.

If the Bulls clean up the mistakes they can get the win.

Didn’t see scarlets game last weekend but they should be a tougher prospect for the Lions that Zebre were

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Post by Oakdene Wed 29 Sep 2021, 11:09 am

As a Scarlets fan, I'm looking for us to be more streetwise this week. Against Edinburgh we were quick to flap our arms around looking for the ref to blow rather than play to the whistle. We need to tighten up our defence, in particular our pillars at ruck time.

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Post by Old Man Wed 29 Sep 2021, 11:23 am

neilthom7 wrote:Glasgow looked good against Ulster last week but didn’t get the win so I’m sure they will be chomping at the bit to get a home win this weekend v sharks.

Bulls have a chance v Connacht. They didn’t start good last weekend and Bulls looked okay v Leinster but in the end Leinsters internationals were able to capitalise on mistakes.

If the Bulls clean up the mistakes they can get the win.

Didn’t see scarlets game last weekend but they should be a tougher prospect for the Lions that Zebre were

Lions are the underdogs this season, I didn'y even expect them to beat Zebre away. So any win on the road for them will be massive.

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Post by profitius Wed 29 Sep 2021, 11:42 am

Here's my favourites. Not sure about 2 of the matches though I'd lean towards Glasgow and ospreys.


Friday 1st October 2021
Connacht v Bulls 19:35
Scarlets v Lions 19:35

Saturday 2nd October 2021
Benetton v Edinburgh 13:00
Glasgow v Sharks 15:00
Zebre v Ulster 17:15
Munster v Stormers 19:35
Ospreys v Cardiff 19:35

Sunday 3rd October 2021
Dragons v Leinster 14:00
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Post by The Oracle Wed 29 Sep 2021, 12:25 pm

profitius wrote:Here's my favourites. Not sure about 2 of the matches though I'd lean towards Glasgow and ospreys.


Friday 1st October 2021
Connacht v Bulls 19:35
Scarlets v Lions 19:35

Saturday 2nd October 2021
Benetton v Edinburgh 13:00
Glasgow v Sharks 15:00
Zebre v Ulster 17:15
Munster v Stormers 19:35
Ospreys v Cardiff 19:35

Sunday 3rd October 2021
Dragons v Leinster 14:00

Leinster?! Really????! Wink
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Post by Brendan Wed 29 Sep 2021, 2:14 pm

Friday 1st October 2021
Connacht v Bulls 19:35 - I think Connacht might do it but realistically Bulls by 5
Scarlets v Lions 19:35 - Scarlets by 15

Saturday 2nd October 2021
Benetton v Edinburgh 13:00 - Benetton by 3 as at home
Glasgow v Sharks 15:00 - Glasgow by 15, don't think Shark defence will hold.
Zebre v Ulster 17:15  - Ulster by 20 to lay down a marker
Munster v Stormers 19:35 - Munster by 15
Ospreys v Cardiff 19:35 - Ospreys to win at home by 10

Sunday 3rd October 2021
Dragons v Leinster 14:00 Dragon to rally at the end but Leinster to hold on by 20.

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Post by Pete330v2 Wed 29 Sep 2021, 3:50 pm

Connacht v Bulls - Connacht by 12, just because they can and often do.
Scarlets v Lions - Scarlets by 17, maybe even more.

Benetton v Edinburgh - Edinburgh with a tight away win by 3, it could well be Benetton by 3 but I'll stick with the Scots.
Glasgow v Sharks - Glasgow by 10, they're going to look to bounce back in style after being the better team v Ulster and losing.
Zebre v Ulster - Ulster by 27, a performance is imperative after limping home last week made harder with fresh injuries but still should be easy enough.
Munster v Stormers - Munster by 20, Munster at home is a task too far for the Saffers.
Ospreys v Cardiff 19:35 - Ospreys by 7, home advantage being the deciding factor.

Dragons v Leinster - Leinster by 35 because it's Leinster.

There you are, you can now place massive bets on all those results not happening.

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Post by Old Man Wed 29 Sep 2021, 4:56 pm

Thanks Pete. That will help a lot.

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Post by mikey_dragon Wed 29 Sep 2021, 9:26 pm

The Oracle wrote:
profitius wrote:Here's my favourites. Not sure about 2 of the matches though I'd lean towards Glasgow and ospreys.


Friday 1st October 2021
Connacht v Bulls 19:35
Scarlets v Lions 19:35

Saturday 2nd October 2021
Benetton v Edinburgh 13:00
Glasgow v Sharks 15:00
Zebre v Ulster 17:15
Munster v Stormers 19:35
Ospreys v Cardiff 19:35

Sunday 3rd October 2021
Dragons v Leinster 14:00

Leinster?! Really????! Wink

What's he been smoking....

Are we at home? I didn't realise that. I might go down again as I actually enjoyed it last Sunday!

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Post by mikey_dragon Wed 29 Sep 2021, 9:28 pm

Old Man wrote:Thanks Pete. That will help a lot.

Am I right in thinking Bulls will be the strongest when they get their internationals back? How many to return? They got a bit of second-row factory going on in Pretoria I've noticed.

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Post by Old Man Wed 29 Sep 2021, 9:37 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
Old Man wrote:Thanks Pete. That will help a lot.

Am I right in thinking Bulls will be the strongest when they get their internationals back? How many to return? They got a bit of second-row factory going on in Pretoria I've noticed.

Bulls have been the best amongst the SA teams locally.

But historically the Sharks have been our most successful Super Rugby team in terms of win/loss ratio vs overseas teams and also the team that had the best record in Australasia, in contrast the Bulls have not travelled as well as the Sharks.

Just a theory, but the Bulls are from an area traditionally Afrikaans and somehow I have always gotten the feeling that they feel like ducks out of water when they tour overseas.

In terms of Springboks coming back apart from the Lions the other three all have roughly the same number of Boks returning.

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Post by Brendan Thu 30 Sep 2021, 4:06 pm

Old Man wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Old Man wrote:Thanks Pete. That will help a lot.

Am I right in thinking Bulls will be the strongest when they get their internationals back? How many to return? They got a bit of second-row factory going on in Pretoria I've noticed.

Bulls have been the best amongst the SA teams locally.

But historically the Sharks have been our most successful Super Rugby team in terms of win/loss ratio vs overseas teams and also the team that had the best record in Australasia, in contrast the Bulls have not travelled as well as the Sharks.

Just a theory, but the Bulls are from an area traditionally Afrikaans and somehow I have always gotten the feeling that they feel like ducks out of water when they tour overseas.

In terms of Springboks coming back apart from the Lions the other three all have roughly the same number of Boks returning.

One of the SA media outlets did an article highlighting the issues of travel both at SR and international level with the Boks struggling against Oz and Argentina away from home in the RC.

One of the big things for Irish teams that helped the international team was playing away in France in the Champions Cup.  Because it was one key game it helped the players to focus on it and not be intimidated by the hostile environment and it is completely different from playing in the Pro12.

If you take a team like the Bulls they will face a completely different experience on and off the field in Connacht were it is a smaller crowd but much more passionate crowd.  Same with the Sharks they will find the Glasgow crowd much more on top of them then at Munster.

I never thought about the Afrikaans angle for the Bulls but it makes alot of sense. Alot of the SA ex-pats in Ireland I know who find it hard to settle are from a more Afrikaans background rather than English, coloured or one of the many black cultures.

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Post by PhilBB Thu 30 Sep 2021, 4:09 pm

Brendan wrote:

One of the big things for Irish teams that helped the international team was playing away in France in the Champions Cup.  Because it was one key game it helped the players to focus on it and not be intimidated by the hostile environment and it is completely different from playing in the Pro12.


Hang on, isn't the SA problem the travel time and time difference issues caused by playing in Argentina and Australia? Or in this tournament by playing just in Australia? And, therefore, having to be in Australia for weeks and months?

You can't compare that with two hours on a Ryanair flight and an overnight stay in a 5 star French hotel.
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Post by Brendan Fri 01 Oct 2021, 1:31 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Brendan wrote:

One of the big things for Irish teams that helped the international team was playing away in France in the Champions Cup.  Because it was one key game it helped the players to focus on it and not be intimidated by the hostile environment and it is completely different from playing in the Pro12.


Hang on, isn't the SA problem the travel time and time difference issues caused by playing in Argentina and Australia? Or in this tournament by playing just in Australia? And, therefore, having to be in Australia for weeks and months?

You can't compare that with two hours on a Ryanair flight and an overnight stay in a 5 star French hotel.

The problem the Irish had was going to a non-english country where culture was different playing in front of hostile grounds.  It wasn't so much the distance but the change surroundings.  Going to the UK is like being in Ireland with a different accent.

For SA, their teams have had travel problems at SR and international level for some time.  As Old Man said the Bulls (generally a non-english culture) has also struggled on the road more than the Sharks (generally an English Culture).  With European Rugby next year the SA teams will play in more varied cultures more often than Super Rugby ever offered, even the league offers more variances as SR was playing in a big stadium that all where much of a muchness,

Each SA team is going to see more variations in the first two weeks of URC than in a season of SR (maybe a little exaggerated but you get the point).  Parma and the Stadio Lanfranchi v Llanelli and Parc y Scarlets.  Limerick and Glasgow, Thomond and Scotsoun.  Even Galway will seem like the moon with wind and rain.  If Connacht had a stadium like Leinster Galway would be less different.

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Post by PhilBB Fri 01 Oct 2021, 1:46 pm

Brendan wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
Brendan wrote:

One of the big things for Irish teams that helped the international team was playing away in France in the Champions Cup.  Because it was one key game it helped the players to focus on it and not be intimidated by the hostile environment and it is completely different from playing in the Pro12.


Hang on, isn't the SA problem the travel time and time difference issues caused by playing in Argentina and Australia? Or in this tournament by playing just in Australia? And, therefore, having to be in Australia for weeks and months?

You can't compare that with two hours on a Ryanair flight and an overnight stay in a 5 star French hotel.

The problem the Irish had was going to a non-english country where culture was different playing in front of hostile grounds.  It wasn't so much the distance but the change surroundings.  Going to the UK is like being in Ireland with a different accent.

For SA, their teams have had travel problems at SR and international level for some time.  As Old Man said the Bulls (generally a non-english culture) has also struggled on the road more than the Sharks (generally an English Culture).  With European Rugby next year the SA teams will play in more varied cultures more often than Super Rugby ever offered, even the league offers more variances as SR was playing in a big stadium that all where much of a muchness,

Each SA team is going to see more variations in the first two weeks of URC than in a season of SR (maybe a little exaggerated but you get the point).  Parma and the Stadio Lanfranchi v Llanelli and Parc y Scarlets.  Limerick and Glasgow, Thomond and Scotsoun.  Even Galway will seem like the moon with wind and rain.  If Connacht had a stadium like Leinster Galway would be less different.

Are you being serious? By your own logic, the Bulls would get the same from playing the Sharks (i.e. 'a non-English culture').

I can't believe you're making that claim. Have you never been to the Southern Hemisphere?
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Post by Old Man Fri 01 Oct 2021, 3:07 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Brendan wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
Brendan wrote:

One of the big things for Irish teams that helped the international team was playing away in France in the Champions Cup.  Because it was one key game it helped the players to focus on it and not be intimidated by the hostile environment and it is completely different from playing in the Pro12.


Hang on, isn't the SA problem the travel time and time difference issues caused by playing in Argentina and Australia? Or in this tournament by playing just in Australia? And, therefore, having to be in Australia for weeks and months?

You can't compare that with two hours on a Ryanair flight and an overnight stay in a 5 star French hotel.

The problem the Irish had was going to a non-english country where culture was different playing in front of hostile grounds.  It wasn't so much the distance but the change surroundings.  Going to the UK is like being in Ireland with a different accent.

For SA, their teams have had travel problems at SR and international level for some time.  As Old Man said the Bulls (generally a non-english culture) has also struggled on the road more than the Sharks (generally an English Culture).  With European Rugby next year the SA teams will play in more varied cultures more often than Super Rugby ever offered, even the league offers more variances as SR was playing in a big stadium that all where much of a muchness,

Each SA team is going to see more variations in the first two weeks of URC than in a season of SR (maybe a little exaggerated but you get the point).  Parma and the Stadio Lanfranchi v Llanelli and Parc y Scarlets.  Limerick and Glasgow, Thomond and Scotsoun.  Even Galway will seem like the moon with wind and rain.  If Connacht had a stadium like Leinster Galway would be less different.

Are you being serious? By your own logic, the Bulls would get the same from playing the Sharks (i.e. 'a non-English culture').

I can't believe you're making that claim. Have you never been to the Southern Hemisphere?

I am making that claim phill, and substantiated that claim by virtue of the results in 20+ seasons of Super Rugby.


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Post by PhilBB Fri 01 Oct 2021, 3:21 pm

Old Man wrote:
I am making that claim phill, and substantiated that claim by virtue of the results in 20+ seasons of Super Rugby.


Hang on, you're using the results of 20+ years of Super Rugby to tell me that a South African team playing in Canberra (or an an Aussie tour lasting weeks) is the same as a two hour Ryanair hop to France and an over night stay in a 5 star hotel?

Really?
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Post by Old Man Fri 01 Oct 2021, 4:22 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Old Man wrote:
I am making that claim phill, and substantiated that claim by virtue of the results in 20+ seasons of Super Rugby.


Hang on, you're using the results of 20+ years of Super Rugby to tell me that a South African team playing in Canberra (or an an Aussie tour lasting weeks) is the same as a two hour Ryanair hop to France and an over night stay in a 5 star hotel?

Really?

What are you talking about?

I am talking of the Bulls as a touring team.

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Post by PhilBB Fri 01 Oct 2021, 4:49 pm

Old Man wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
Old Man wrote:
I am making that claim phill, and substantiated that claim by virtue of the results in 20+ seasons of Super Rugby.


Hang on, you're using the results of 20+ years of Super Rugby to tell me that a South African team playing in Canberra (or an an Aussie tour lasting weeks) is the same as a two hour Ryanair hop to France and an over night stay in a 5 star hotel?

Really?

What are you talking about?

I am talking of the Bulls as a touring team.

Ok.

My point to Brendan was that his view was a false equivalent which, for clarity, is when an equivalence is drawn between two subjects based on flawed or false reasoning. He drew an equivalence between a SA team playing in Australia and an Irish team playing in France.

You followed that up with "I am making that claim" whilst, it seems, not following the conversation.
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Post by neilthom7 Fri 01 Oct 2021, 5:03 pm

Looking forward to Connacht v Bulls in a couple of hours.

The Sportsground should be quite an experience for the Bulls.

My favourite Connacht weather memory is when Contepomi kicked the ball through the posts and it blew back through again lol the refs all looking around like does that count or not lol

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Post by Old Man Fri 01 Oct 2021, 6:42 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Old Man wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
Old Man wrote:
I am making that claim phill, and substantiated that claim by virtue of the results in 20+ seasons of Super Rugby.


Hang on, you're using the results of 20+ years of Super Rugby to tell me that a South African team playing in Canberra (or an an Aussie tour lasting weeks) is the same as a two hour Ryanair hop to France and an over night stay in a 5 star hotel?

Really?

What are you talking about?

I am talking of the Bulls as a touring team.

Ok.

My point to Brendan was that his view was a false equivalent which, for clarity, is when an equivalence is drawn between two subjects based on flawed or false reasoning. He drew an equivalence between a SA team playing in Australia and an Irish team playing in France.

You followed that up with "I am making that claim" whilst, it seems, not following the conversation.

Perhaps if you clarified in your response to him that whilst you mention the Bulls in your comment, you are arguing the point about a different team, then there won't be confusion over the comparison you are drawing?

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Post by neilthom7 Fri 01 Oct 2021, 7:40 pm

Great start from the Bulls, coming out firing

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Post by Old Man Fri 01 Oct 2021, 8:05 pm

Bulls defence is questionable

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Post by Old Man Fri 01 Oct 2021, 8:25 pm

Connacht in from the side and gets the bpenalty with the bulls on attack five meters out,

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Post by profitius Fri 01 Oct 2021, 8:31 pm

Good game Connacht bulls. Bulls dominating the forward battle but they're making errors.
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Post by Old Man Fri 01 Oct 2021, 8:32 pm

yup

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Post by neilthom7 Fri 01 Oct 2021, 8:45 pm

That was a pretty poor effort at a tackle from the Bulls in the lead up to that Connacht try

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Post by neilthom7 Fri 01 Oct 2021, 8:46 pm

That is an absolutely brilliant try, what a run, that man has serious speed

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Post by neilthom7 Fri 01 Oct 2021, 8:48 pm

That looks to me like Dillane is trying to block him, Connacht got away from one there

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Post by Old Man Fri 01 Oct 2021, 8:49 pm

So it is obstruction, but because it isn't deemed deliberate the try stands.

Frak me

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Post by Old Man Fri 01 Oct 2021, 8:50 pm

Best I don't comment on referees

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Post by neilthom7 Fri 01 Oct 2021, 9:01 pm

I think what the referee is saying is he did not deliberately alter his line and therefore although obstructed the guy its not a foul as he is under no obligation to get out of the way.

I personally disagree, I think Dillane does change his line deliberately but the Scottish lads are the only one whose opinion matters tonight.

Its a blow for the Bulls who will have to do a serious bit of work now to get the win

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Fri 01 Oct 2021, 9:09 pm

neilthom7 wrote:I think what the referee is saying is he did not deliberately alter his line and therefore although obstructed the guy its not a foul as he is under no obligation to get out of the way.

I personally disagree, I think Dillane does change his line deliberately but the Scottish lads are the only one whose opinion matters tonight.

Its a blow for the Bulls who will have to do a serious bit of work now to get the win
I don't think the bulls player was ever getting to him though.

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Post by Old Man Fri 01 Oct 2021, 9:29 pm

SA teams need to work on their defence, their tackling has been poor, but also their defensive organisation on the whole is poor.

Too kany offloads against them as they don't kill the ball in the tackle.

However, I am really impressed with the offloading ability of these European teams, makes for great rugby and lots of space to run into.

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Post by Brendan Fri 01 Oct 2021, 9:32 pm

Weather really dropped in the last 10 minutes.

Bulls unlucky but feel they will run up a big win in one of their last two games. They just don't seem to get going and to passive in the breakdown.

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Post by Old Man Fri 01 Oct 2021, 9:34 pm

The SA teams have been decent in their first 40 minutes, but as the game hits the last quarter they fall of heavily, I don't think it is necessarily fitness that is the issue, I think it is lack of depth, their benches make no impression.

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Post by Brendan Fri 01 Oct 2021, 9:38 pm

Old Man wrote:SA teams need to work on their defence, their tackling has been poor, but also their defensive organisation on the whole is poor.

Too kany offloads against them as they don't kill the ball in the tackle.

However, I am really impressed with the offloading ability of these European teams, makes for great rugby and lots of space to run into.

Super Rugby was usually around 80% tackle rate were as higher in North. You will notice the difference at the contact and as you said they are too passive. Problem the Bulls have is the breakdown is very competitive in the league. Still think Bulls will win 100% of home games.

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Post by neilthom7 Fri 01 Oct 2021, 9:49 pm

Scoreline was harsh on Bulls in the end and didn't tell the tale of the game. Some poor defence cost them.

Connacht took a bit to get going but once they got the confidence looked a different team

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Post by Old Man Fri 01 Oct 2021, 9:51 pm

Brendan wrote:
Old Man wrote:SA teams need to work on their defence, their tackling has been poor, but also their defensive organisation on the whole is poor.

Too kany offloads against them as they don't kill the ball in the tackle.

However, I am really impressed with the offloading ability of these European teams, makes for great rugby and lots of space to run into.

Super Rugby was usually around 80% tackle rate were as higher in North.  You will notice the difference at the contact and as you said they are too passive.  Problem the Bulls have is the breakdown is very competitive in the league.  Still think Bulls will win 100% of home games.

SA teams also need to be careful with the attached support runner, they give away too many penalties on attack because they go to ground with the tackled player, they need to reload faster, the European referees are very strict on the reload, it must be immediate. You can't throw away so many scoring opportunities.

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Post by Old Man Sat 02 Oct 2021, 3:22 pm

Jeebus, the sharks being penalised off the park here.
getting a bit ridiculous now. Have these referees not given the SA teams any heads up?

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Post by profitius Sat 02 Oct 2021, 4:06 pm

Old Man wrote:Jeebus, the sharks being penalised off the park here.
getting a bit ridiculous now. Have these referees not given the SA teams any heads up?


I think the main problem is adjusting to the level of the competition. The currie Cup must have been a low standard because of the exodus of players. They lack fitness and some tactical nous imo.


Interesting that Glasgow and Sharks attack coaches are 2 former Ireland u20 head coaches. Those were relatively successful teams.
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Post by neilthom7 Sat 02 Oct 2021, 4:15 pm

That’s a bit of strange decision for Sharks to go for 3 points there. They are 25 points down, why would they not go for the corner

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Post by Brendan Sat 02 Oct 2021, 4:37 pm

Glasgow looking like a top 4 side

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Post by mikey_dragon Sat 02 Oct 2021, 5:04 pm

Having caught up on one of yesterday’s games, the Lions scrum demolished the Scarlets. That’s a big concern.

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Post by Old Man Sat 02 Oct 2021, 5:09 pm

Sharks came back well into the match, but the SA coaches will need to get clarification on how these NH referees officiate, they conceded 7 penalties in that first quarter, not going to win many matches when you go down by plenty in the first quarter.

It is hugely frustrating to watch.

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Post by neilthom7 Sat 02 Oct 2021, 6:49 pm

Ulster really struggling to 5 points in Italy, very disjointed performance albeit with 10 changes from last week

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Post by Brendan Sat 02 Oct 2021, 7:35 pm

Old Man wrote:Sharks came back well into the match, but the SA coaches will need to get clarification on how these NH referees officiate, they conceded 7 penalties in that first quarter, not going to win many matches when you go down by plenty in the first quarter.

It is hugely frustrating to watch.

They seemed to do better and learn as the game went on which is what you want to see from the players. I think they look to be learning nicely and adapting quicker. I think Bulls and Sharks can have real belief for next week if they can sort their lineouts and attack the breakdown more aggressively.

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