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European games round 4

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Hazel Sapling
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TJ
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Post by lostinwales Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:44 pm

I guess...

Anyway thanks to the BBC tables I will summarize below

Friday 21/1/22 all 20:00
Championship
Harlequins v  Castres

Challenge
Lyon v Benetton
Edinburgh v Brive

Saturday 22/1/22
Championship
Bath v Leinster 13:00
Ulster v ASM Clermont Auvergne 17:30
Glasgow Warriors v La Rochelle 20:00
Toulouse v Cardiff Rugby 13:00  Guess what... Toulouse defeated by the bug 28-0 win for Cardiff
Leicester Tigers v Bordeaux Bègles 15:15  And another one bites the dust. Covid at Bordeaux and Leicester win 28-0
Scarlets v Bristol  17:30

Challenge
Zebre v Worcester Warriors 15:15
Toulon v Newcastle Falcons 20:00  Covid at Falcons
Gloucester v Perpignan 17:30

Sunday 23/1/22
Championship
Sale v Ospreys 13:00
Racing 92 v Northampton Saints 15:15 And another one has gone - Racing with the 28-0 win
Montpellier v Exeter Chiefs 17:30
Stade Francais v Connacht 13:00
Munster v Wasps 15:15

Challenge
Saracens v London Irish 15:15


Last edited by lostinwales on Sat Jan 22, 2022 2:42 pm; edited 6 times in total

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Post by doctor_grey Thu Jan 20, 2022 8:12 pm

Some garbaage time matches this weekend.  For instance, considering how Montpellier cavitated against Leinster last weekend, what will they do against Exeter?   European games round 4 1f4a9.  
And speaking about European games round 4 1f4a9, what sort of dynamic Rugby will we see from Bath?  Or Scarlets, Or Castres, or, or, or.

On the other hand, which games do you think are going to be good?  Or is this a good weekend to do weird and unusual things such as talking to what's her name?  I think she's my wife or something.

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Post by RiscaGame Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:38 am

I’ll be honest, there wasn’t a game I particularly thought I would watch either. Not expecting much from the three Welsh teams, although Cardiff might get a 28-0 so are probably the best chance.

I’m away thankfully, but if there was something big on I would probably watch. This year has made me lose a bit of interest with the inconsistency around the postponements etc.

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Post by lostinwales Fri Jan 21, 2022 11:08 am

There are a lot of places in the last 16 up for grabs, at least in theory

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Post by RiscaGame Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:31 pm

I see Toulouse are playing. Cardiff have earned a lot of praise for how they’ve played in their games and still have a great chance out there, with a rotated Toulouse.

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Post by Geordie Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:35 pm

Falcons game cancelled as we have 9 players with covid apparently.

Just put the U18's in...they'd do better than the current sack of sh1t....

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Post by mikey_dragon Fri Jan 21, 2022 1:47 pm

Ioan Lloyd is at 12 for Bristol. That'll be interesting.

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Post by mikey_dragon Fri Jan 21, 2022 2:27 pm

Sale Sharks: S Hammersley; T Roebuck, R du Preez, R Janse van Rensburg, A Reed; AJ MacGinty, R Quirke; B Rodd, E Ashman, N Schonert, J du Preez, L de Jager, J Ross (capt), B Curry, D du Preez.

Replacements: C Langdon, R Harrison, C Oosthuizen, J du Preez, T Curry, W Cliff, S James, J Metcalf.

Ospreys: D Evans; M Protheroe, M Collins, K Williams, L Morgan; J Thomas, R Morgan-Williams; N Smith, D Lake, T Botha, L Ashley, A Beard (capt), S Cross, H Deaves, E Roots.

Replacements: E Taione, R Jones, R Henry, H Sutton, M Morris, M Aubrey, T Thomas Wheeler, J Hawkins.

Ospreys must be throwing it, a few of their Wales call-ups are not picked. Jeez, look at who Lloyd Ashley will be up against...

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Post by thebandwagonsociety Fri Jan 21, 2022 3:27 pm

Leinster Rugby team to face Bath (Leinster caps in brackets):

15. Hugo Keenan (37)
14. Jordan Larmour (68)
13. Garry Ringrose (93)
12. Robbie Henshaw (59)
11. Jimmy O’Brien (40)
10. Johnny Sexton CAPTAIN (177)
9. Luke McGrath (159)

1. Andrew Porter (84)
2. Rónan Kelleher (32)
3. Michael Ala’alatoa (8)
4. Ross Molony (124)
5. Josh Murphy (51)
6. Caelan Doris (46)
7. Josh van der Flier (105)
8. Jack Conan (109)

Replacements:

16. Dan Sheehan (20)
17. Cian Healy (240)
18. Vakh Abdaladze (15)
19. Ryan Baird (35)
20. Max Deegan (73)
21. Jamison Gibson-Park (108)
22. Ross Byrne (113)
23. Ciarán Frawley (44)

Referee – Andrea Piardi (FIR)


Bath team is at;

https://www.bathrugby.com/news/team-news-bath-rugby-v-leinster-r4-hcc/

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Post by thebandwagonsociety Fri Jan 21, 2022 3:31 pm

Munster: Haley; Conway, Farrell, Scannell, Earls; Healy, Murray; Kilcoyne, Barron, Archer; Kleyn, Beirne; O'Mahony (capt), O'Donoghue, Coombes.

Replacements: Buckley, Loughman, Ryan, F Wycherley, Hodnett, Casey, Crowley, Zebo.

Wasps: Crossdale; Watson, Odogwu, Mills, Bassett; Atkinson, Robson; West, Cruse, Millar-Mills; Stooke, Gaskell; Shields (capt), Young, Carr.

Replacements: Oghre, Martinez, Scholtz, Cardall, Morris, Porter, Miller, Spink

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Post by mikey_dragon Fri Jan 21, 2022 3:39 pm

Epic win for Cardiff, 28 nil.

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Post by thebandwagonsociety Fri Jan 21, 2022 3:49 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:Epic win for Cardiff, 28 nil.

Hard fought victory puts them into the next round (for now). Were Toulouse tactical in seeking a 0-28 defeat as the margin cap means Cardiff stay below Toulouse on the table (open to correction)?

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Post by Guest Fri Jan 21, 2022 4:09 pm

thebandwagonsociety wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:Epic win for Cardiff, 28 nil.

Hard fought victory puts them into the next round (for now). Were Toulouse tactical in seeking a 0-28 defeat as the margin cap means Cardiff stay below Toulouse on the table (open to correction)?

Toulouse are kicking off about it and threatening to sue ERC. The French league are having a meeting about how to respond. Sounds like they wanted to play the game, and from what I’ve read it sounded like they had scraped a squad together. So not sure why the game was cancelled.

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Post by neilthom7 Fri Jan 21, 2022 4:24 pm

Ulster: Lowry; Baloucoune, Hume, Curtis, McIlroy; Burns, Doak; O'Sullivan, Herring, Moore, O'Connor, Treadwell; Marcus Rea, Timoney, Vermeulen.

Replacements: Roberts, McGrath, O'Toole, Carter, Jones, Shanahan, Moxham, Gilroy.

Clermont Auvergne: Tiberghien; O'Connor, Barraque, Vili, Raka; Hanrahan, Parra; Falgoux, Beheregaray, Slimani, Jedrasiak, Lavanini; Cancoriet (capt), Dessaigne, van Tonder.

Replacements: Fourcade, Bibi Biwizu, Ojovan, Vahaamina, Lee, Viallard, Lopez, Penaud.

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Post by mikey_dragon Fri Jan 21, 2022 5:24 pm

The Oracle wrote:
thebandwagonsociety wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:Epic win for Cardiff, 28 nil.

Hard fought victory puts them into the next round (for now). Were Toulouse tactical in seeking a 0-28 defeat as the margin cap means Cardiff stay below Toulouse on the table (open to correction)?

Toulouse are kicking off about it and threatening to sue ERC. The French league are having a meeting about how to respond. Sounds like they wanted to play the game, and from what I’ve read it sounded like they had scraped a squad together. So not sure why the game was cancelled.

Be awkward if it was played now, seeing as the 28-0 from the first rounds were delcared as still standing.

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Post by geoff999rugby Fri Jan 21, 2022 6:02 pm

It can’t be overturned, unless it’s one law for the French and one for others.

Some of us said at the time moving HQ to Switzerland was a bad idea

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Post by lostinwales Fri Jan 21, 2022 6:03 pm

Tigers Bordeaux off - covid in France

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Post by RiscaGame Fri Jan 21, 2022 6:08 pm

The Oracle wrote:
thebandwagonsociety wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:Epic win for Cardiff, 28 nil.

Hard fought victory puts them into the next round (for now). Were Toulouse tactical in seeking a 0-28 defeat as the margin cap means Cardiff stay below Toulouse on the table (open to correction)?

Toulouse are kicking off about it and threatening to sue ERC. The French league are having a meeting about how to respond. Sounds like they wanted to play the game, and from what I’ve read it sounded like they had scraped a squad together. So not sure why the game was cancelled.

I did wonder why they named a squad, to then subsequently postpone it.

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Post by geoff999rugby Fri Jan 21, 2022 6:29 pm

Leinster named a Covid free travelling party and we’re not allowed to play

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Post by formerly known as Sam Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:35 pm

lostinwales wrote:Tigers Bordeaux off - covid in France

Bit weird that Bordeaux named a team and then a short time later didn't get on the plane and cancelled the game. Must have been some late PCR test results coming through.

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Post by doctor_grey Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:55 pm

Not sure what anyone thought, but I think that last try was just an inch short of the line...

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Post by king_carlos Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:57 pm

Looked short to me. If you use the defenders boot being on the line as a reference point it definitely looked short. Given on field decision was no try so clear evidence is needed to overturn I'd say Castres can feel hard done by.

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Post by king_carlos Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:58 pm

Entertaining game though.

Nakosi is some player.

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Post by doctor_grey Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:58 pm

king_carlos wrote:Looked short to me. If you use the defenders boot being on the line as a reference point it definitely looked short. Given on field decision was no try so clear evidence is needed to overturn I'd say Castres can feel hard done by.
Agree. Shame for Castres. Was a fun game to watch.

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Post by Poorfour Fri Jan 21, 2022 11:30 pm

It looked pretty good to me. You couldn't see the line, but the reaction from players on both sides suggests they all thought it was a try.

Anyway, when you're a Quins fan, pretty much every game is like that
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Post by TJ Fri Jan 21, 2022 11:37 pm

Quins should not have had the penalty. I usually don't like pointing the finger at the officials but they had a stinker tonight. Missed a forward pass that put Quins down that end and gave a pen for a perfectly good steal by Castres. quins certainly lucky

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Post by lostinwales Fri Jan 21, 2022 11:49 pm

Just saw the clip of Botica throwing the ball away a metre from the line. Some days nothing goes right laughing

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Post by mikey_dragon Sat Jan 22, 2022 12:00 am

Adamson again…

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Post by Poorfour Sat Jan 22, 2022 12:09 am

TJ wrote:Quins should not have had the penalty.  I usually don't like pointing the finger at the officials but they had a stinker tonight.  Missed a forward pass that put Quins down that end and gave a pen for a perfectly good steal by Castres.  quins certainly lucky

Castres got away with a lot of offside and sealing off, and no YC for the strig of red zone penalties at the end or the very cynical push and dive on Steele. It cuts both ways.
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Post by Collapse2005 Sat Jan 22, 2022 7:56 am

Think Castre were robbed a bit with a fairly onesided sequence of decisions at the end. Botica really could have made it a non issue if he kicked better though.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sat Jan 22, 2022 8:25 am

Poorfour wrote:It looked pretty good to me. You couldn't see the line, but the reaction from players on both sides suggests they all thought it was a try.

As KC says it was on field decision no try so the TMO has to find clear evidence that it's on the line. He tells Adamson he has seen ball touch the line but unless there was footage not shown on the TV stream that's not true. All angles have the line obscured so you can't tell.

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Post by Poorfour Sat Jan 22, 2022 9:03 am

Anyway, a lot of focus on the last couple of minutes, and no mention of how he was generally dire for both sides throughout the match. If Quins got a bit of luck at the end, Castres had their share earlier in the game.
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Post by Poorfour Sat Jan 22, 2022 9:57 am

formerly known as Sam wrote:
Poorfour wrote:It looked pretty good to me. You couldn't see the line, but the reaction from players on both sides suggests they all thought it was a try.

As KC says it was on field decision no try so the TMO has to find clear evidence that it's on the line. He tells Adamson he has seen ball touch the line but unless there was footage not shown on the TV stream that's not true. All angles have the line obscured so you can't tell.

Watching the replay, I disagree. The angle in live shows pretty clearly that he reached the line, so the question is mostly about whether he drops it. On the other angles the Castres boot starts with the toe on the line but slides forward until it's running diagonally across the line with the heel at the back of the line. Any grounding in line with the foot is going to be touching the line (and remember that the ball is longer than the foot, so it's the front of the ball that matters). The TMO was also very clear that there's no separation and contact with the line.

But there were an endless number of debatable decisions - for instance was the final pass for Castres' try in the YC period forward? It was a lovely play but the offload looked potentially forward in both the live angle nor the one used in the replay. Wasn't reviewed.
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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat Jan 22, 2022 12:30 pm

Refs, like the players will make mistakes in games. It'll always be the players who decide the match.

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Post by RiscaGame Sat Jan 22, 2022 12:59 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:Adamson again…

And the awful TMO MacNeice to an extent.

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Post by mikey_dragon Sat Jan 22, 2022 1:45 pm

Yes, and isn't it Adamson for England Vs Wales? That won't be short of controversy I bet.

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Post by Rugby Fan Sat Jan 22, 2022 2:01 pm

South Africa crushed England 43-0, which confirms that the new-look squad must still be regarded as minnows.

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Post by doctor_grey Sat Jan 22, 2022 2:01 pm

Poorfour wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:
Poorfour wrote:It looked pretty good to me. You couldn't see the line, but the reaction from players on both sides suggests they all thought it was a try.

As KC says it was on field decision no try so the TMO has to find clear evidence that it's on the line. He tells Adamson he has seen ball touch the line but unless there was footage not shown on the TV stream that's not true. All angles have the line obscured so you can't tell.

Watching the replay, I disagree. The angle in live shows pretty clearly that he reached the line, so the question is mostly about whether he drops it. On the other angles the Castres boot starts with the toe on the line but slides forward until it's running diagonally across the line with the heel at the back of the line. Any grounding in line with the foot is going to be touching the line (and remember that the ball is longer than the foot, so it's the front of the ball that matters). The TMO was also very clear that there's no separation and contact with the line.

But there were an endless number of debatable decisions - for instance was the final pass for Castres' try in the YC period forward? It was a lovely play but the offload looked potentially forward in both the live angle nor the one used in the replay. Wasn't reviewed.
Just went back and looked at it again. Still, for me, just an inch short or maybe less. But, it is very close call and I wouldn't really complain either way. Just a fantastic end to a really good match (though would have liked the try to be more definitive).

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Post by Collapse2005 Sat Jan 22, 2022 2:29 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Refs, like the players will make mistakes in games. It'll always be the players who decide the match.

Well thats obviously not true if as you say refs make mistakes.

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Post by Collapse2005 Sat Jan 22, 2022 2:30 pm

Baths pitch is awful, its also too small.

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Post by tigertattie Sat Jan 22, 2022 2:33 pm

Does anyone know why soooooo many channel 4 matches involve Leinster? Did the IRFU pay/give some form of rights for the games to go to channel 4?

They are a great team to watch but my god Jamie heaslip gives unbiased commentary a wide, wide berth.
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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat Jan 22, 2022 2:44 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Refs, like the players will make mistakes in games. It'll always be the players who decide the match.

Well thats obviously not true if as you say refs make mistakes.

Well it is. I mean there are actually people blaming the ref last night on this thread. The one I watched involved Botica though.

It involved hundreds of decisions and mistakes you don't even notice from the players. It's just easier for people to get in a huff and blame officials.

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Post by Rugby Fan Sat Jan 22, 2022 2:54 pm

I know Leinster can be hard for anyone to defend but Bath are making it easy for them at times.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sat Jan 22, 2022 3:43 pm

Poorfour wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:
Poorfour wrote:It looked pretty good to me. You couldn't see the line, but the reaction from players on both sides suggests they all thought it was a try.

As KC says it was on field decision no try so the TMO has to find clear evidence that it's on the line. He tells Adamson he has seen ball touch the line but unless there was footage not shown on the TV stream that's not true. All angles have the line obscured so you can't tell.

Watching the replay, I disagree. The angle in live shows pretty clearly that he reached the line, so the question is mostly about whether he drops it. On the other angles the Castres boot starts with the toe on the line but slides forward until it's running diagonally across the line with the heel at the back of the line. Any grounding in line with the foot is going to be touching the line (and remember that the ball is longer than the foot, so it's the front of the ball that matters). The TMO was also very clear that there's no separation and contact with the line.

But there were an endless number of debatable decisions - for instance was the final pass for Castres' try in the YC period forward? It was a lovely play but the offload looked potentially forward in both the live angle nor the one used in the replay. Wasn't reviewed.

I think he's about there but under the letter of the law says you have to show the ball touching the line or beyond and you can't see that because there's a boot in the way. Had the ref said on field try then no worries but as the ref had said on field no try I think it's poor from the TMO as he's guessed rather finding definitive footage. Well unless he had an angle that wasn't shown on TV.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sat Jan 22, 2022 3:46 pm

Rugby Fan wrote:I know Leinster can be hard for anyone to defend but Bath are making it easy for them at times.

Bath are the worst team in the Prem by a distance this season. This result isn't a surprise, particularly because they are missing a host of players.

Just in terms of internationals there's no Obano, Dunn, Falatau, Cipriani, Joseph, Watson, Cockasiga and Roko. Half a team of internationals missing will hamper most teams let alone one with no confidence or momentum.

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Post by Collapse2005 Sat Jan 22, 2022 3:48 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Refs, like the players will make mistakes in games. It'll always be the players who decide the match.

Well thats obviously not true if as you say refs make mistakes.

Well it is. I mean there are actually people blaming the ref last night on this thread. The one I watched involved Botica though.

It involved hundreds of decisions and mistakes you don't even notice from the players. It's just easier for people to get in a huff and blame officials.

Thats fairly airy fairy logic. If you were to say that both players and refs can decide outcomes of games that would make more sense.

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Post by Collapse2005 Sat Jan 22, 2022 3:48 pm

Jimmy O'Brien is having a great game.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat Jan 22, 2022 4:00 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Refs, like the players will make mistakes in games. It'll always be the players who decide the match.

Well thats obviously not true if as you say refs make mistakes.

Well it is. I mean there are actually people blaming the ref last night on this thread. The one I watched involved Botica though.

It involved hundreds of decisions and mistakes you don't even notice from the players. It's just easier for people to get in a huff and blame officials.

Thats fairly airy fairy logic. If you were to say that both players and refs can decide outcomes of games that would make more sense.

It's just easier to say you're wrong though.

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European games round 4 Empty Re: European games round 4

Post by mikey_dragon Sat Jan 22, 2022 4:04 pm

That’s a job done.

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European games round 4 Empty Re: European games round 4

Post by Duty281 Sat Jan 22, 2022 5:18 pm

Referees absolutely can decide matches, though players do have greater overall influence. We saw that yesterday - the incorrect decision to penalise Castres, followed by the incorrect decision to award a try to Quins, decided the result of the game. Up to then the efforts of the players had made it a 33-29 Castres win, but the referee's incorrect interventions changed the result.

The referee giving an incorrect red card, or failing to give a red card where required, can also decide the outcome of a game because of how devastating a red card can be to the opposition (for example the Lions would have won the second test v South Africa in 2009 if Burger had been correctly sent off in the 1st minute).

A slightly more obscure example would be incorrect interpretations at the scrum - if this happens consistently a team can lose a match undeservedly. This nearly happened during the 2003 WC final and sent the game into ET and nearly cost England a deserved win.

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European games round 4 Empty Re: European games round 4

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