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URC Round 11

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Jimmy Moz
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Post by neilthom7 Wed Jan 26, 2022 9:01 pm

It's the last full round before the 6 nations get going and a chance for teams to get themselves in a good position to push for European and play off sports.

All games on Premier Sports, URC TV and SuperSport

FRIDAY, 28TH JANUARY 2022

Ulster v Scarlets- Kingspan Stadium, Belfast – 19.35 IRE & UK / 20.35 ITA / 21.35 SA
Dragons v Benetton- Rodney Parade, Newport - 19.35 IRE & UK / 20.35 ITA / 21.35 SA- BBC Wales, Mediaset

SATURDAY, 29TH JANUARY 2022

Emirates Lions v Vodacom Bulls- Emirates Airlines Park, Johannesburg – 13.00 IRE & UK / 14.00 ITA / 15.00 SA
Connacht v Glasgow Warriors- The Sportsground, Galway – 14.55 IRE & UK / 15.55 ITA / 16.55 SA- RTÉ 2
Cell C Sharks v DHL Stormers- Hollywoodbets Kings Park, Durban – 15.05 IRE & UK / 16.05 ITA / 17.05 SA
Zebre Parma v Munster- Stadio Sergio Lanfranchi, Parma – 17.00 IRE & UK / 18.00 ITA / 19.00 SA- Mediaset, RTÉ 2
Ospreys v Edinburgh- Swansea.com Stadium, Swansea – 17.15 IRE & UK / 18.15 ITA / 19.15 SA
Cardiff v Leinster- Cardiff Arms Park, Cardiff – 19.35 IRE & UK / 20.35 ITA / 21.35 SA- S4C, TG4

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Post by RiscaGame Wed Jan 26, 2022 9:26 pm

Thanks Neil.

Sounds like Moriarty should be back for Dragons and it also seems like Elliot Dee might almost be fit too. Lord knows we need a boost.

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Post by neilthom7 Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:08 pm

Benetton are a decent team but at Rodney Parade Dragons have to be favourites there. Brad Roberts coming your way next year, hey we can even throw in Sam Carter too if you want, no refunds.

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Post by RiscaGame Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:41 pm

laughing laughing

Seeing as both you and Geoff have offered, I’ll pass. Can’t pretend to have seen him, but his reputation on here seems a bit underwhelming:D

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Post by neilthom7 Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:54 pm

No, no don't let us fool you, he's fantastic, an Aussie international and everything, just go ahead and sign this cotnract, no need to read it first.

He's just so underpowered, hes a big guy but seems to have the power in the tackle of my 10 year old nephew. It's very strange how underwhelming he has been. An Australian International (18 caps so not just like one or 2) but I think with everyone fit he doesn't even make our top 4 locks.

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Post by Oakdene Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:17 am

There's a shock, us playing Ulster on a Friday night.

I can't see us winning but if we do, it could really ignite our season given the games in hand we have on other sides.

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Post by Welshmushroom Thu Jan 27, 2022 11:23 am

Reckon that Connacht/Glasgow match will be a cracker.

Reckon the Welsh sides are all in for a hiding this weekend. Only possible win on the cards could be the Dragons and even that is not a given.

That Sharks vs Stormers could be another great match to watch.

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Post by geoff999rugby Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:10 pm

Oakdene wrote:There's a shock, us playing Ulster on a Friday night.

I can't see us winning but if we do, it could really ignite our season given the games in hand we have on other sides.

Ulster are putting out a very weak team you have a chance
At least 17 players missing through Ireland call ups , or injury.
Probably only 4 starting first XV players available

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Post by mikey_dragon Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:13 pm

Some of the names in the lineup didn't look weak tbh, and Vermeulen is there who looks to be rugby's best signing of 2021/22.

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Post by Brendan Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:49 pm

Cardiff v Leinster & Zebre Parma v Munster have to feel will be two away wins with 5 points to the away team.
Cardiff losing a second home game having played 5/9 would be a bit off the playoffs if results go against them. Might be a hill to big to climb.

Dragons v Benetton & Emirates Lions v Vodacom Bulls is hard to call but if Lions, Dragons or Bulls lose then playoff are over for me.  Benetton lose and they are barely hanging on but the 6N period could see a collapse with so many missing.  I think Dragons and Bulls will win

Ulster v Scarlets
Connacht v Glasgow Warriors
Cell C Sharks v DHL Stormers
Ospreys v Edinburgh
The remain 4 matches are someone going for Top 4 v someone looking to stay in the playoff spots (except Stormers who if the lose could be out of the playoff running).  Sharks should win and think they will start laying down a marker and pick up 5pts.  Their defence needs to start looking better.  The other 3 games I think I'd go with home team wins with a 4-1 split on point except maybe Connacht v Glasgow could be 5-2.

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Post by Welshmushroom Thu Jan 27, 2022 3:39 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:
Oakdene wrote:There's a shock, us playing Ulster on a Friday night.

I can't see us winning but if we do, it could really ignite our season given the games in hand we have on other sides.

Ulster are putting out a very weak team you have a chance
At least 17 players missing through Ireland call ups , or injury.
Probably only 4 starting first XV players available

The Scarlets lineup has even less experience. They have no chance of winning at Ulster.

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Post by geoff999rugby Thu Jan 27, 2022 3:41 pm

To be fair having looked at the Scarlets team you are probably right

So a weak Ulster team will beat a very weak Scarlets team Very Happy

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Post by Welshmushroom Thu Jan 27, 2022 3:46 pm

Ironically looking at what Cardiff have available they should be putting out a experienced 15 against Leinster who must be seriously depleted with the 6 Nations around the corner.

That said its Cardiff and a team coached by Dai. So they will manage to blow the game in the last 10 minutes Smile

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Post by Guest Thu Jan 27, 2022 3:58 pm

Brendan wrote:Cardiff v Leinster & Zebre Parma v Munster have to feel will be two away wins with 5 points to the away team.
Cardiff losing a second home game having played 5/9 would be a bit off the playoffs if results go against them. Might be a hill to big to climb.

Dragons v Benetton & Emirates Lions v Vodacom Bulls is hard to call but if Lions, Dragons or Bulls lose then playoff are over for me.  Benetton lose and they are barely hanging on but the 6N period could see a collapse with so many missing.  I think Dragons and Bulls will win

Ulster v Scarlets
Connacht v Glasgow Warriors
Cell C Sharks v DHL Stormers
Ospreys v Edinburgh
The remain 4 matches are someone going for Top 4 v someone looking to stay in the playoff spots (except Stormers who if the lose could be out of the playoff running).  Sharks should win and think they will start laying down a marker and pick up 5pts.  Their defence needs to start looking better.  The other 3 games I think I'd go with home team wins with a 4-1 split on point except maybe Connacht v Glasgow could be 5-2.

Being reported on the Dragons thread that Benetton are without 23 players away with Italy. Dragons too have a number away or injured, mainly in the forwards, but certainly not that many. Hoping that tips things in our favour.

We’re missing Brown at prop, Rowlands and Carter in the 2nd row, Basham and Wainright in the back row. Moriarty and Dee are just back from injury so will be rusty. So a makeshift pack. Just hope Benetton’s 2nds are worse than ours! Our backs look almost 1st choice, if we can get them some ball.

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Post by mikey_dragon Fri Jan 28, 2022 9:36 pm

Pub team Vs Benetton on PS2 right now.

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Post by Guest Fri Jan 28, 2022 9:38 pm

It’s woeful isn’t it? Although Moriarty has just gone over and we’re all level.

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Post by mikey_dragon Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:52 pm

Pub team scrapes a draw.

There was a huge forward pass before Ulster’s final try, that’s about as much of the game I saw. Some of the fans are also saying there should have been a red card.

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Post by neilthom7 Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:18 pm

You didn't miss much, game was lacking in real quality throughout except myabe Billy Burns who looked lively. I suppose with both teams having fielded weak sides thats about all we could expect.

Scarlets did well though, they were very much even with Ulster throughout, better at points but Ulster started to pull away later on.

The card was a yellow as far as I was concerned and I think the ref got that right.

I didn't actually see the Gilroy try so can't really speak on the forward pass

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Post by Guest Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:44 pm

The Welsh teams have a real issue with 2nd halves lately.  Not sure if it’s a fitness thing or a mental thing, or if indeed it’s just their weak benches.  But either way they seem to give teams a decent game until half time then get blown away 2nd half.  This sounded a little closer, but if you look at Scarlets v Bristol last week I think Bristol scored something like 30 points in the last quarter on their way to a 52-21 win at Scarlets (only a 1 point gap at half time)! Ospreys were 14-3 down at halftime v Sale and then ended losing 49-10. Not two isolated incidents either. We seem to just implode or lose interest or run out of steam these days.

The exception is of course the mighty Dragons who just came from behind to draw with Benetton 3rds. At home. Shocked #class! #sleepinggiants!

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Post by RiscaGame Sat Jan 29, 2022 1:04 am

Thank you Oracle. I admit I was wrong. The draw is great aye Very Happy Dean Ryan is a genius. A draw v their C team is great.

This time next year Rodders

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Post by Guest Sat Jan 29, 2022 8:59 am

RiscaGame wrote:Thank you Oracle. I admit I was wrong. The draw is great aye Very Happy Dean Ryan is a genius. A draw v their C team is great.

This time next year Rodders

Laugh

It’s the hope that kills you! Sad

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Post by Brendan Sat Jan 29, 2022 9:58 am

While a draw on the face of it isn't great at least it ends the losing run and gets points on the board. Coming from behind helps aswell. Dragons seem to have fallen off alot since the Connacht win so maybe this can kick start them again mentally.

Though just looked at the fixtures and they have Ulster, Munster, Bulls and Sharks as the next 4 so could get beat but at least the pressure should be off them a bit compared to yesterday when the pressure was really on.

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Post by geoff999rugby Sat Jan 29, 2022 10:48 am

As I mentioned Ulster could have lost that and they nearly did.
60 minutes the game was in the balance.
Scarlets wasted some clear chances.
Unless key player come back next week Connacht are favourites at Ravenhill on Friday.

Not sure Dragons can take much comfort from failing to beat a combination of Trevino 2nds and 3rds at home

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Post by mikey_dragon Sat Jan 29, 2022 1:08 pm

neilthom7 wrote:You didn't miss much, game was lacking in real quality throughout except myabe Billy Burns who looked lively.  I suppose with both teams having fielded weak sides thats about all we could expect.

Scarlets did well though, they were very much even with Ulster throughout, better at points but Ulster started to pull away later on.

The card was a yellow as far as I was concerned and I think the ref got that right.

I didn't actually see the Gilroy try so can't really speak on the forward pass

I’ve seen that incident via the highlights now, and going by previous incidents like that it has always been red. Did the ref say if there was mitigation as he was falling?

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Post by neilthom7 Sat Jan 29, 2022 1:41 pm

Yeah he was down to his knees which was the mitigation on it.  Tom Shanklin was on commentary, he said he thought it was yellow then later after the game changed his mind and thought it was red as he didn't think Gilroy was going to wrap his arms.  I personally think Gilroy was going to wrap and because of the fall of the Scarlets player I think yellow was fair but I can see either point.

On a related note Jaco Peyper was the ref in that game, I think that is good to have a SARU ref for some of these games as it will helps teams know what they are likely to see from southern hemisphere refs both on a club level and internationally.  We know there can be quite a disconnect at times between reffing in the northern and southern hemisphere

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Post by RiscaGame Sat Jan 29, 2022 8:07 pm

Great result ospreys.

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Post by Guest Sat Jan 29, 2022 9:06 pm

Yes, good job Ospreys clap

A couple of lovely tries just now from both sides in the Cardiff v Leinster game.

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Post by Jimmy Moz Sat Jan 29, 2022 10:36 pm

Great kick from Jarrod Evans to win the game for Cardiff. Does it actually count though as he is a player from one Mickey Dragon's "irrelevant Valleys" so therefore is the kick irrelevant???

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Post by Brendan Sat Jan 29, 2022 10:51 pm

That is a big result for Cardiff. Other than the Benetton draw the right results (maybe Ospreys not great for them) from the teams around them and puts them back in the hunt for that playoff spot.

Have to feel that Munster, Ulster & Glasgow will be happy with the weekend results as all 3 firmly back in the race for top spot.

Edinburgh are now starting their run against the top half of the table so we'll see how they manage. Before today the highest team they faced was Benetton. In their next 5 games they play Leinster, Munster, Glasgow and Sharks away with a home match v Connacht.

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Post by Brendan Sat Jan 29, 2022 11:19 pm

Current Table going off points per game

Top 5 (0.34 between teams)
Edinburgh 3.78
Leinster 3.75
Munster 3.63
Glasgow 3.44
Ulster 3.44

Playoff spots 6-11 (0.38 between teams)
Ospreys 2.60
Cardiff 2.57
Benetton 2.56
Sharks 2.29
Scarlets 2.29
Connacht 2.22

Ground to make up 12-15
Stormers 2.00
Bulls 1.71
Lions 1.71
Dragons 1.38

Maybe next year 16th
Zebre 0.14

If we assume that the 4 regional winners plus Munster and Ulster/Leinster are in the Champions Cup then the last two spots seem like a fight out between the following (two teams means one will win their region leaving the other needing a spot)
1. Edinburgh/Glasgow
2. Ospreys/Scarlets/Cardiff (One will drop off)
3. Benetton
4. Connacht
5. Stormers/Bulls (One will drop off)

During the 6 nations think Edinburgh, Benetton will drop a bit and the 3 big SA teams to improve as they now reverse the start of the season with loaded teams at home against weaken opposition.

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Post by mikey_dragon Sun Jan 30, 2022 10:37 am

Jimmy Moz wrote:Great kick from Jarrod Evans to win the game for Cardiff. Does it actually count though as he is a player from one Mickey Dragon's "irrelevant Valleys" so therefore is the kick irrelevant???

He came through the Cardiff academy. I know that fact hurts you, being from somewhere irrelevant and all Wink haha.

Great win for Cardiff. I’ve always rated Jarrod highly, more-so than Sheedy.

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Post by mikey_dragon Sun Jan 30, 2022 11:02 am

Good win for Ospreys against league leaders Edinburgh. Despite some poor calls from the ref they certainly had the upper hand in the scrum, and by a considerable margin. No Nicky Smith in the Wales squad again though, great work by Pivac.

Serious question, what is Luke Morgan doing on the pitch? Does he do anything well? I have to ask because I often see their fans comment on how good he supposedly is.

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Post by Jimmy Moz Sun Jan 30, 2022 3:42 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:I know that fact hurts you, being from somewhere irrelevant and all Wink haha
I've never really classed anywhere as irrelevant in rugby or real life terms. All people and places are important. I'm mature like that see Smile

mikey_dragon wrote:I’ve always rated Jarrod highly, more-so than Sheedy
I am undecided. Sheedy will come to Cardiff though if the cap rule stays in place. I can see Jarrod moving on to England if/when that happens.

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Post by mikey_dragon Sun Jan 30, 2022 4:08 pm

Jimmy Moz wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:I know that fact hurts you, being from somewhere irrelevant and all Wink haha
I've never really classed anywhere as irrelevant in rugby or real life terms. All people and places are important. I'm mature like that see Smile

Your posting history says otherwise, nice try though. Jarrod did well in the Cardiff academy didn't he? Smile

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Post by Jimmy Moz Sun Jan 30, 2022 5:07 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:Your posting history says otherwise, nice try though. Jarrod did well in the Cardiff academy didn't he? Smile
Yeah and the clubs he was with before the academy. It's all part of the big picture from grass routes up to the professional and international game game. Rugby is great like that Very Happy

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Post by Welshmushroom Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:45 am

Got to be honest - personally thought Scarlets got a rough deal on Friday.  In my book that was a clear red card tackle.  I accept he was dipping as he got hit but for Gilroy made zero attempt to wrap his arms.  So even if the player had been upright that tackle in itself would have been a yellow card (very poor technique).  So for me that would have countered the mitigation.  The second part was that the player didn't even need to tackle him as the guy behind was already bringing him down.

I've no problem with teams being physical but if your going to endorse these sort of tackles your risking people's ability to make a living.  This sort of tackle is exactly the sort of incident that will result in ending someone's career.  

Not saying Scarlets would have won mind you but playing against 14 away would have helped for sure.  Especially given the guy who should have been sent off was on the field 2 score one of the 2 tries at the end.

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Post by Welshmushroom Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:52 am

Was at least nice to see some Welsh wins though.....

I actually don't think there is much between a lot of the teams in the league. What I am noticing is the intensity and aggression the Irish bring to the league from the beginning of the league. Welsh Sides to me this season I don't believe are technically behind these sides (except Leinster). The real issue for me is our guys start slowly in the league and I simply don't see that aggressive attitude from our sides.

Once you start slowly you then have to deal with low confidence as well which then doesn't help the situation.



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Post by Unclear Mon Jan 31, 2022 10:35 am

Welshmushroom wrote:Got to be honest - personally thought Scarlets got a rough deal on Friday.  In my book that was a clear red card tackle.  I accept he was dipping as he got hit but for Gilroy made zero attempt to wrap his arms.  So even if the player had been upright that tackle in itself would have been a yellow card (very poor technique).  So for me that would have countered the mitigation.  The second part was that the player didn't even need to tackle him as the guy behind was already bringing him down.

I've no problem with teams being physical but if your going to endorse these sort of tackles your risking people's ability to make a living.  This sort of tackle is exactly the sort of incident that will result in ending someone's career.  

Not saying Scarlets would have won mind you but playing against 14 away would have helped for sure.  Especially given the guy who should have been sent off was on the field 2 score one of the 2 tries at the end.

I understand the frustration.  As an Ulster supporter I obviously felt the yellow was adequate.  BUT I can quite see the argument for red.  We've all seen lower risk events ending in a red card and it is the inconsistency in the decision making that really annoys me.  I don't know the details of what is mitigation etc, maybe that is my problem, but there seem to be widely differing views of incidents and the citing panels (which I assumed were supposed to ensure consistency and accuracy) aren't helping.

I'd like to say that the standard of officiating (so not just the refs on the pitch) was improving, but I'm not seeing it.

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Post by Brendan Mon Jan 31, 2022 12:04 pm

This weekend like the last round before the AIs Ospreys and Cardiff did better without their stars. Cardiff seem to be building nicely.

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Post by Welshmushroom Mon Jan 31, 2022 12:30 pm

I think Covid has changed things with the cancellations of fixtures. I do wonder how future seasons will go. Clearly there won't be a need for such large playing squads from any of the nations.

Welsh Regions need to make sure moving forward that a bulk of their salaries are actually on the field every week. I'd imagine as few as 36 players will probably be more than what will be required. I hope they have a sense to make sure 5-10 of those are made up from promising young welsh talent to help them develop.

I reckon we have 100 pro's in our regional game who shouldn't be making a living as professional rugby players. If they were really smart they would do what France, Ireland & New Zealand do which is identify talent abroad especially in areas of weakness and then bring them over with a long term view of qualifying them for Wales. I'd only allow this in areas that we can't identify Welsh Talent in.

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Post by Welshmushroom Mon Jan 31, 2022 12:38 pm

Unclear wrote:
Welshmushroom wrote:Got to be honest - personally thought Scarlets got a rough deal on Friday.  In my book that was a clear red card tackle.  I accept he was dipping as he got hit but for Gilroy made zero attempt to wrap his arms.  So even if the player had been upright that tackle in itself would have been a yellow card (very poor technique).  So for me that would have countered the mitigation.  The second part was that the player didn't even need to tackle him as the guy behind was already bringing him down.

I've no problem with teams being physical but if your going to endorse these sort of tackles your risking people's ability to make a living.  This sort of tackle is exactly the sort of incident that will result in ending someone's career.  

Not saying Scarlets would have won mind you but playing against 14 away would have helped for sure.  Especially given the guy who should have been sent off was on the field 2 score one of the 2 tries at the end.

I understand the frustration.  As an Ulster supporter I obviously felt the yellow was adequate.  BUT I can quite see the argument for red.  We've all seen lower risk events ending in a red card and it is the inconsistency in the decision making that really annoys me.  I don't know the details of what is mitigation etc, maybe that is my problem, but there seem to be widely differing views of incidents and the citing panels (which I assumed were supposed to ensure consistency and accuracy) aren't helping.

I'd like to say that the standard of officiating (so not just the refs on the pitch) was improving, but I'm not seeing it.


I know they have recently brought in a ref Manager so in the long term I hope that will change things. I hope the URC in the long terms essentially creates a ref academy run by them. That way we have ref's that are managed and paid by the league instead of the individual unions. That in turn would create a scenario where essentially the best referees will be provided with more fixtures which in turn would create accountable performances. Also they would be able to get these ref's to become consistent. I would still allow each union to enter refs from every participating nation so we always have refs from all countries being trained. Long term I would like to see league make them fully professional so they don't have day jobs and can fully work on improving their skills. When they get to an age where they can no longer take the field I would move them into training new coaches or TMO rolls. That way you are giving those men/women a viable job route without losing them to other pathways.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Mon Jan 31, 2022 12:52 pm

How do you accurately know which positions you need 5 years down the line though mushroom?

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Post by Old Man Mon Jan 31, 2022 1:02 pm

Lions supporters fed up with the situation at the club, being the leading franchise in SA in 2016,17 and 18, to now having lost all talent, poor recruiting, salary cap etc.

SARU is going to have to increase salary caps and help the franchises keep their best players, too much talent is lost.

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Post by Unclear Mon Jan 31, 2022 1:44 pm

Welshmushroom wrote:
Unclear wrote:
Welshmushroom wrote:Got to be honest - personally thought Scarlets got a rough deal on Friday.  In my book that was a clear red card tackle.  I accept he was dipping as he got hit but for Gilroy made zero attempt to wrap his arms.  So even if the player had been upright that tackle in itself would have been a yellow card (very poor technique).  So for me that would have countered the mitigation.  The second part was that the player didn't even need to tackle him as the guy behind was already bringing him down.

I've no problem with teams being physical but if your going to endorse these sort of tackles your risking people's ability to make a living.  This sort of tackle is exactly the sort of incident that will result in ending someone's career.  

Not saying Scarlets would have won mind you but playing against 14 away would have helped for sure.  Especially given the guy who should have been sent off was on the field 2 score one of the 2 tries at the end.

I understand the frustration.  As an Ulster supporter I obviously felt the yellow was adequate.  BUT I can quite see the argument for red.  We've all seen lower risk events ending in a red card and it is the inconsistency in the decision making that really annoys me.  I don't know the details of what is mitigation etc, maybe that is my problem, but there seem to be widely differing views of incidents and the citing panels (which I assumed were supposed to ensure consistency and accuracy) aren't helping.

I'd like to say that the standard of officiating (so not just the refs on the pitch) was improving, but I'm not seeing it.
 

I know they have recently brought in a ref Manager so in the long term I hope that will change things.  I hope the URC in the long terms essentially creates a ref academy run by them.  That way we have ref's that are managed and paid by the league instead of the individual unions.  That in turn would create a scenario where essentially the best referees will be provided with more fixtures which in turn would create accountable performances.  Also they would be able to get these ref's to become consistent.  I would still allow each union to enter refs from every participating nation so we always have refs from all countries being trained.  Long term I would like to see league make them fully professional so they don't have day jobs and can fully work on improving their skills. When they get to an age where they can no longer take the field I would move them into training new coaches or TMO rolls.  That way you are giving those men/women a viable job route without losing them to other pathways.

I like that idea, and perhaps it could be extended in some way to those in the citing process. I suppose I need to be patient, fully qualified and experienced referees don't appear out of nowhere, and it will take a number of years to develop new talent. A fully professional system may help to encourage people to consider refereeing as a career path, God knows we supporters give them scant encouragement as we dissect their every decision with the benefit of slow motion replays and plenty of hindsight.

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Post by PhilBB Tue Feb 22, 2022 5:02 pm

Welshmushroom wrote:Ironically looking at what Cardiff have available they should be putting out a experienced 15 against Leinster who must be seriously depleted with the 6 Nations around the corner.

That said its Cardiff and a team coached by Dai.  So they will manage to blow the game in the last 10 minutes Smile

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