Glasgow and Edinburgh 28 and Counting - The banter goes on!

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28 and counting, where do we get the energy!

Another Glasgow re-signing coming up this afternoon, following on from the White Rhino, the animal theme is hinted at again. Who could that be?

Ancient history:

https://www.606v2.com/t70348p1000-glasgow-and-edinburgh-unceasing-banter-thread-27#4033843

Salvi has gone there too but as a breakdown and contact area specialist

John Barclay, in the Times, expanding a bit on his theme that Danny Wilson was unlucky to lose his job after the Dublin Debacle.

It is actually a very well written article and hits a lot of home truths, even if after that match, surely something had to give.





If anyone imagines that the sacking of Danny Wilson will be a silver bullet for all of Glasgow’s problems, they are in for a rude awakening. Having worked extensively with Danny at Scarlets and then with Scotland, I know him to be an excellent, detail-driven coach and an empathetic, effective leader.

I believe that he has been left to carry the can for failings that go well beyond his remit, and that he ultimately became a lightning rod for the frustrations of supporters angered by what they judge to be a decline in standards both on the pitch and off it.

First things first, let’s be clear: there can be absolutely no excuse for the 76-14 hammering the Warriors suffered against Leinster last weekend. Professional rugby is business. And businesses are required to deliver. Last Saturday’s display fell so short of delivering that it came as no surprise to learn the head coach had paid the price. The match was embarrassingly easy for the Irish, and both Danny and his players proved incapable of doing anything to stop the bleeding. It was ugly and painful to watch, and the fact the players appeared to throw in the towel at an early stage has prompted questions as to whether Danny had lost the dressing room.

All I can say to that one is that, as someone who has only recently retired and is close to the game, speaking regularly to many of the guys in there, I have never detected any sense of unrest or disgruntlement about Danny, his tactics or his coaching. The bottom line is that Glasgow, as a collective, have been underperforming, and not just seven days ago.

Dublin was their fifth loss on the bounce, and before that miserable run there had also been defeats by the likes of Cardiff and Scarlets, and the 52-17 shocker against Exeter at Sandy Park in the Champions Cup, another capitulation that bore more than a passing resemblance to what we saw at the RDS.


Yet as far as the recent disappointments are concerned, we are duty-bound to apply context. Of those five defeats, the first two came in South Africa, where Edinburgh are the only northern hemisphere side to win this season, and that in a curate’s egg of a game against the Sharks. Next up was Lyon in the Challenge Cup, a painfully tight loss to the side who went on to win the tournament. The 1872 Cup defeat by Edinburgh was a total non-performance by Glasgow, and delivered them to the quarter-final everyone wanted to avoid: Leinster away.

There is no escaping the poorness of this run, but let’s take a step back and remember that Glasgow were third in the league in mid-April, well placed for a home tie in the knockouts. Had roles been reversed in that Murrayfield derby, with Glasgow ending up going to the Stormers and losing without shame instead of being hosed in Dublin, you’re not telling me Danny would still have been sacked. That’s what makes it feel — to my mind — a reactionary and premature move.




There needs to be an honesty around the fact that the Warriors squad is simply not strong enough for what it’s being asked to do. Young guns like Ross Thompson, Rufus McLean and Ollie Smith are already fine players and will get even better, but we are expecting too much of them at this stage in their careers to go out there week-in, week-out and stand out against leading sides. Yes, Glasgow had 17 internationals in their matchday 23 against Leinster, but remove those with only a handful of caps or even fewer and you have a much more accurate reflection of this group: they are badly lacking when it comes to explosive ability underpinned by gnarly experience.

Someone like Jack Dempsey is the perfect example of that mix, and how Glasgow could do with another three or four like him scattered through the team to provide a framework in which the young guys can better develop.

It takes at least a couple of years for a coach to get his squad where he wants it, with several rounds of movement both in and out. Through all the Covid complications, Danny’s first season was a write-off, but latterly his recruitment had several big bright spots: Dempsey, Josh McKay, Rory Darge, Cole Forbes, Sebastián Cancelliere, with a number of what, on paper, look more than decent additions for next season secured as well.

In my opinion, he had recognised and had gone some way to addressing the lack of leaders, who know the club inside out and are key to driving standards. Quite right, fans bemoan the loss of talent over the last few years: Stuart Hogg, Finn Russell, Leone Nakarawa, Jonny Gray, Callum Gibbins. These players brought incredible ability but also gave the team and its culture a leadership solidity.


With Danny already having done next year’s recruitment, the SRU will be asking the next coach to come in knowing he has, at best, limited scope to alter personnel in the near future. What if that coach wants to play a totally different style to Danny’s? Over at Edinburgh, Mike Blair has shown it is possible, in the way that he has transformed a group assembled to play almost the antithesis of the rugby he wants, but it’s a huge ask.

We’re also at a stage in the World Cup cycle where coaches (and their employers) are reluctant to make moves. They don’t want to cause upheaval this close to the tournament, and they may also not wish to pre-empt the merry-go-round which always follows a World Cup.


I would urge the SRU to go as big as they possibly can. Have a real deep dive into the market and see if you can come back up clutching a bigger fish than even you thought possible. I’m sure Mark Dodson will be aware that this is going to require chunky investment, not just for the head coach but his support staff. At Glasgow, Gregor Townsend was able to call on assistants of quality calibre like Matt Taylor and Dan McFarland, Dave Rennie likewise with Jonathan Humphreys and Jason O’Halloran. Whoever comes in next at Scotstoun will want their own team and that needs to be supported. With this appointment, there is absolutely no point in trying to cut corners: it is critical that the SRU get it right and don’t end up in a “buy cheap, buy twice” scenario.

Of equal necessity is that the union grasp the deeper issues at the club; the strong sense that it has lost energy and direction either side of the white line after more than a decade of progress under Sean Lineen, Townsend and Rennie. Fans are rightly concerned about a perceived lack of investment in the team and the Scotstoun facilities at the same time as their season-ticket prices are going up yet again. The death of the traditional Friday night Scotstoun slot appears to be a central issue for many, adding to the general swirl of dissatisfaction.

None of these things is the responsibility of a head coach, but I can’t help but feel that, in the rush to sack Danny, they have been lumped in with poor results and dumped at his door.

It now falls to those who made the decision that he was not up to the job to go and do theirs.

The only counter argument I'd have is the angry mob of Glasgow fans who were about to explode if Danny Wilson failed again next season. It had been getting pretty ugly in the build up to the end of the season. There wasn't quite the same level of discontent for any previous coaches.

Truth is. A lot of Glasgow fans never really took to DW in the first place, even when he had us playing some good stuff at the end of last season.

He was never going to be enough unfortunately and all the other issues that JB alluded to also played their part.

I was happy to keep the faith with him, but unfortunately i don't think there is ever any real coming back from a run of defeats and an end of the season like that.

Dodson better get the cheque book out for the next guy!

Sadly all the good options are already signed up for next season. Can see Dodson going for an internal SRU candidate as a holding option until after the WC. Totally wrong thing to do but think this is what will occur.

sensisball wrote:Sadly all the good options are already signed up for next season. Can see Dodson going for an internal SRU candidate as a holding option until after the WC. Totally wrong thing to do but think this is what will occur.

That's what we will get. There will be s few coaches available after the World Cup. Eddie Jones, anyone?

demosthenes wrote:

sensisball wrote:Sadly all the good options are already signed up for next season. Can see Dodson going for an internal SRU candidate as a holding option until after the WC. Totally wrong thing to do but think this is what will occur.

That's what we will get.  There will be s few coaches available after the World Cup.  Eddie Jones, anyone?

Could you imagine the SRU PR trying to manage Jones?

sensisball wrote:Sadly all the good options are already signed up for next season. Can see Dodson going for an internal SRU candidate as a holding option until after the WC. Totally wrong thing to do but think this is what will occur.

100% and it's difficult to look past Al Kellock.

It will be announced with a lot of hoo-ha that this is someone who 'loves the club' and will 'bleed for the players'. As though that's a meaningful substitute for actually being good at coaching. If enthusiasm was the sole barometer for qualification then I would have married Emily Ratajkowski several years ago.

If Mrs Carling reads that you will bleed for Ms Ratajkowski.
John Barclays latest column is puzzling; he seems to say DW is a top bloke and an excellent coach and that Glasgow 's problems were pre-existing and deep rooted. Without actually saying what those problems are and whose heads should roll.
JB could actually be the Keir Starmer of rugby pundits.

https://www.glasgowwarriors.org/news/glasgow-warriors-to-kick-off-2022-23-season-in-inverness?fbclid=IwAR2ef0fqng6kSGtwoYclPwCKMOOdbAxSfW0ccT6hJ8CuQWjUvWaJGpn2nlA

Great news! I’m going to buy a ticket and go to this. Hopefully we can get a big crowd. Getting a bigger crowd than a Caley home match shouldn’t be too difficult Great that it’s a Friday night game too.

It just occurs to me that i haven't visited my brother in some time. he abides in Kiltarlity which is near...Invernooski.

This should stop the Whinger Nation from complaining about lack of Friday night games - they just need to travel to Inverness for it!

Holy excrement, Batman. It's cold just looking at Cally Stadium.

I do love Inverness though, albeit that it is very slightly different to Dubai.

You gotta job yet GC

When we likely to see you back over here?

Rob Harley gets a 2 year contract with Carcassonne.

Nice place for him to end his career, he speaks good French so should fit in well and can also handle himself in the hurly bury of Pro D2.

Glad to see him not ending up high and dry as so many good pros are experiencing this season.

Fantastic news, glad he finally gets to experience club rugby in France. He will be an excellent addition to Pro D2.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/61813312

What a way to see out your career. Last game is a premiership final. Win or lose I’ve been really impressed with Swinson at Saracens. 41 appearances in two seasons, not bad!

bsando wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/61813312

What a way to see out your career. Last game is a premiership final. Win or lose I’ve been really impressed with Swinson at Saracens. 41 appearances in two seasons, not bad!

Yeah, fair play - his Indian summer at Sarries has been pretty miraculous really. I didn't imagine for a second he would be holding down a starting position at Sarries this year, but here we are.

jimbopip wrote:Lancaster is a very, very good coach. It wouldn't be the worst appointment.
Vern Cotter for two years with Furra Linee as his apprentice would be my dream ticket.

Well, we're half way there.

jimbopip wrote:

jimbopip wrote:Lancaster is a very, very good coach. It wouldn't be the worst appointment.
Vern Cotter for two years with Furra Linee as his apprentice would be my dream ticket.

Well, we're half way there.

Maybe in this capacity he actually will be able to make the people around him play better! Because it was total drivel when that line was trotted out about him during his playing days

Mr Llama, I don't want to get into a with you so I'll be as concise as possible.

The Lions played much better collectively when Dancer was at 10 rather than Farrell or Biggar.

It never really mattered who Glasgow played at 13 when the G Dog was at 12 because the ball seldom got beyond the big fella who loved running straight and hard.

I knew I was destined to be mediocre at football when I realised that when I played with better players I felt I played well because they always picked out my runs and passed to me at the right time, while always providing me with easy options when I had the ball BUT when playing at a lower level my performance levels sank like the proverbial stone.

Furra Linee was a very good player; not quite as good a 12 as Alex Dunbar but better than many who have played 12 for Scotland.
He may well end up as Head Coach at Glasgow. Though my feeling is he is too well balanced in his life outside rugby to want to spend 18 hours a day watching rugby videos.

So just to make the search for a new Glasgow head coach even harder, the incumbent cannot pick their own team and will have to work with what is already there - including Pete Horne in his first pro coaching gig!

This very much suggests it's gonna be an internal appointment, if even just a temporary one.

The Times has an exclusive that it’s Blackadder Todd Blackadder: Former All Black captain is Glasgow Warriors’ leading target for head coach role

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/27261a4e-ecf1-11ec-8821-d2e916a7eab3?shareToken=8460a8b0488d3364211a3365c127e945

I will eat Jimbo's hat if Glasgow can get Todd Blackadder.

That's not a name that anyone was paying much attention to!

It would be quite a coup to pull it off!

Hm. Todd Blackadder seems to have some messiah coach mystique about him amongst Scots fans beyond his playing days (which were superb) but I fail to see it. He seems to be a decent enough coach but in my mind he isn't much of an upgrade from an internal candidate. He didn't exactly set the heather alight with Bath who were in a similar position to Glasgow.

For me BVC during his time with Scotland got the balance perfect with giving the players freedom but also the fight. The latter is what Glasgow are lacking. Need a coach who is similar to that who can earn the players respect. I honestly think Roddy Grant would be as good a candidate as any. McFarland probably wouldn't but he's another who would be brilliant.

Still better than DW, mind.

Jersey seems to be rapidly becoming the go to destination for out of contract Scottish Pros.

Hamish Bain and Sam Grahamslaw both heading their next season to join Nicol, Longwell and another ex Glasgow back row, whoes name currently escapes me.

Let's hope some of them can get the game time they lacked at Glasgow and Edinburgh and move their careers onwards.

Just a quick query. Why does Pete Horne talk as if he lived in London for about a decade when, as far as I know, he has never lived away from Glasgow or Fife?

I have found listening to his punditry most off-putting because of his accent. Maybe he flat shared with Ryan Wilson or has he always loved EastEnders?

Either way i hope the players don't get distracted by his voice whilst he is imparting his wisdom about how to be a skillful player.
Hopefully it will be a case of do as I say not as I did!

sensisball wrote:Just a quick query. Why does Pete Horne talk as if he lived in London for about a decade when, as far as I know, he has never lived away from Glasgow or Ayrshire?
I have found listening to his punditry most off-putting because of his accent. Maybe he flat shared with Ryan Wilson or has he always loved EastEnders?
Either way i hope the players don't get distracted by his voice whilst he is imparting his wisdom about how to be a skillful player.
Hopefully it will be a case of do as I say not as I did!

You sure it's Peter Horne you've been listening to..? He sounds pretty Scottish to me!

https://twitter.com/GlasgowWarriors/status/1537078979336847362?t=XTTSWfhZtZj437op9rqIdw&s=19

He's a Fifer too!

Yea, just remembered he's frae Fife.
Still has a weird accent though.

RDW wrote:I will eat Jimbo's hat if Glasgow can get Todd Blackadder.

We don't wear hats in Glasgow, we wear bunnets. Jaggy bunnets.

NeilyBroon wrote:Hm. Todd Blackadder seems to have some messiah coach mystique about him amongst Scots fans beyond his playing days (which were superb) but I fail to see it. He seems to be a decent enough coach but in my mind he isn't much of an upgrade from an internal candidate. He didn't exactly set the heather alight with Bath who were in a similar position to Glasgow.

For me BVC during his time with Scotland got the balance perfect with giving the players freedom but also the fight. The latter is what Glasgow are lacking. Need a coach who is similar to that who can earn the players respect. I honestly think Roddy Grant would be as good a candidate as any. McFarland probably wouldn't but he's another who would be brilliant.

Still better than DW, mind.

A legend of a player there is no doubt, but you're right he's not really flourished as a head coach.

Bath were very meh under his watch, and he didn't actually won anything with Crusaders.

Stole this from Twitter

These are the years that the Crusaders won the Super Rugby trophy: 1998, 1999, 2000, 2002, 2005, 2006, 2008, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021.

That gap between 2008 and 2017 coincided with Blackadder being their head coach.

I'd still take him if he is available

A bit like Cockerell in some ways, a good coach in need of some rehabilitation.

He may fancy a project, without the massive expectation of a club like Bath, who to be fair, no-one has made any sort of an impression at in recent times

BigGee wrote:I'd still take him if he is available

A bit like Cockerell in some ways, a good coach in need of some rehabilitation.

He may fancy a project, without the massive expectation of a club like Bath, who to be fair, no-one has made any sort of an impression at in recent times

But that would imply that Glasgow should settle for being nothing more than consistent. I think Glasgow need to bring back the culture where everyone was playing for each other and the fans. I feel Blackadder would end up being Glasgow's Solomon's. Middling but passable. If we're going for a coach of that calibre we're as well to put a young gun in who is probably cheaper, I can't imagine he's getting pocket change in Japan atm.

NeilyBroon wrote:

BigGee wrote:I'd still take him if he is available

A bit like Cockerell in some ways, a good coach in need of some rehabilitation.

He may fancy a project, without the massive expectation of a club like Bath, who to be fair, no-one has made any sort of an impression at in recent times

But that would imply that Glasgow should settle for being nothing more than consistent. I think Glasgow need to bring back the culture where everyone was playing for each other and the fans. I feel Blackadder would end up being Glasgow's Solomon's. Middling but passable. If we're going for a coach of that calibre we're as well to put a young gun in who is probably cheaper, I can't imagine he's getting pocket change in Japan atm.

No, Blackadder is never going to be Solomon's, who was at heart, a very conservative coach.

Blackadder's teams never played like that, very much a front foot coach, not unlike Rennie.

That he could not acheive that at Bath was more likely down to the dog fight nature of the Prem at the time and the fact that Bath play on a bog of a pitch. I suspect as the lesgue has opened up a lot over the past couple of season, with relegation removed, he might have done a lot better.


He might as well want to put himself back in the shop window for an international coaching job as well, which is unlikely to happen in Japan.

Feels like a bit of a Rangnick choice. Has the experience and know how but would he actually improve Glasgow as a team? Could work though if Blackadder has a bit of fire in his belly. If it were more of a cash move then I'd be worried Glasgow will merely remain competitive but not actually return to their former high flying form of 2015.

bsando, good post but let's finger the pachyderm in the lounge; if he's another Cowboy Dave then it's bad news. We've already had one excellent SH coach who wanted a couple of seasons in the NH on his CV before stepping up to a national coach. It's almost guaranteed that his decisions will all be short term, since he'll be in a different hemisphere when the chickens come home to roost, and the club will be left in a worse state than when he arrived. This is known as the Full Reverse Sollie with added twist.

Mind you, Blackadder has experience of Scotland and may well take the post because he fancies living where Irn Bru and  the Sunday Post are readily available. In which case...How's it gaun Big Man!!!

Speaking of things Scottish; Bru's wedding   the reception was held in a brewery in Noocassell, there was a free bar and a ceilidh band....what could go wrong?

Blackadder is thought of very highly in Scotland. He did 5 years at Edinburgh, and stepped up from player to coach when Hadden moved on. He had a big big impact driving standards.

He had a big impact on Kellock, who was then a young lock in his early 20s at Embra.

I've dug out an old quote from Kellock when he switched to Glasgow:

"I've played all my professional rugby with Edinburgh and have thoroughly enjoyed my time with them. In particular, working alongside some really experienced international locks like Scott Murray and Todd Blackadder has given me a wealth of knowledge and really helped my game"

None of that means Blackadder would be any good, obviously. I mean he's if responsible for Al Kellocks careers he's got a lot of questions to answer.

Apparently Huw Jones' move could be in doubt! Rumours he's speaking to Stade Francais, as he's not happy to go to Glasgow given Wilson has been sacked.

Could have legs as a story given the first time he went there the new head coach didn't actually want him.

I'd be amazed if he had a release in his contrsct thst would sllow that?

Would SF really be willing to buy him out?

The same paper was also speculating about Dean Richards becoming the next Glasgow coach, which is even more far fetched.

Ooooh Dean Richards to Glasgow eh?

How you feel about that?

GeordieFalcon wrote:Ooooh Dean Richards to Glasgow eh?

How you feel about that?

Not very positive in truth and I am one of the more easy going of Glasgow fans.

It has not been greeted with much enthusiasm on the Glasgow Warriors forum, which is not surprising.

He is a coach who has had his time and whilst he might steady the ship, is unlikely to really tske the team forwards.

It would not be an appointment that will go down well.


Fortunately I also don't beleive there is much substance to it, other than he is available.

Can't see it happening.

He's a dinosaur....his tactics are horribly dated....

Or are they?

We have no money and he's done what he thinks is right for THIS team over 10 years including really building an amazing academy and yet failing to use the products correctly.....but we will see what the new DOR does with the same squad next season, he's admitted the attack has to be changed already.

IF Dean was to take over Glasgow it would be so interesting to see what he does...but I my own opinion won't improve Glasgow.

The appointment of Alan Solomans to Edinburgh springs to mind.

Nice guy, massive rugby pedigree, but really needs to be retired now. The game, i suspect, has moved on.

Well Robertson in the Mail is tweeting that the SRU have indeed interviewed DR for the job and he seems supportive of the idea.

I suspect he might be in a minority.


The only positive I can see in this is that he is available and that he might be a kind of holding candidate waiting for a more suitable appointee (of which there are not really that many around at the moment) to become available. He may also be a decent mentor role to the younger assistants like Dickinson, Murchie and Horne.

I am still struggling to be enthusiastic though!

Thats hilarious if true - Glasgow fire Wilson for poor end of season results but also for the manner in which they played i.e. nae flash.

Their response? "Hire Dean Richards, that'll solve our attacking woes, I'm sure the fans will be most pleased!"

I wonder if some of the more more extreme anti-Wilson members of the Warrior support are starting to get buyers remorse?

It's a very difficult time to be in the market for a new coach just now, with pre-season just around the corner.

You'd hope that they'd do a harlequins and allow the young coaching team to take the reins in a collaborative manner, worked out very well for them!

Agree with others, Dean Richards is not going to be useful for us to hire. He will put some grit into the forwards but his use of youth in Newcastle left much to be desired, particularly in the backs where Glasgow has several young guns.

If we are struggling a bit, I would prefer to give the role to a Dalziel, Murchie or Grant and ask Jim Mallinder to act as a sounding board. At least take a risk on a fairly young Scots coach than a high cost re-tread who has not worked on their flaws like Lancaster.

Dalziel may well be the man to come in after the WC, but they are not going to release him now.

This may be the least worst option, but it is not inspiring.