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Burrell

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun Jun 26, 2022 4:56 pm

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-10953063/England-star-Luther-Burrell-lays-bare-rugby-unions-racism-problem.html

I'm going to post this and not look again probably as it's normally a skip fire for this topic. But it should be here on the rugby pages. 

Considering how much it seems to have affected him not surprised he doesn't feel able to name names but this is still prevalent in the game. Him and Eastmond have only just left.


Some responses:Bill Sweeney, chief executive of the RFU, said in a statement: “We are disturbed that this has been Luther’s experience and we applaud him for speaking out, racism in any walk of life is not acceptable. I have had a conversation with Luther to see if we can learn from his experience and possibly work with him as an advocate of change.

“Inclusion and diversity is at the heart of our strategy and we want to improve education and awareness across our game. We apologise to Luther and all of those who have experienced any form of discrimination and will continue to work to eliminate it from our game.”

Premiership Rugby chief executive Simon Massie-Taylor said: “We applaud Luther for speaking out on this subject but it is saddening to hear some of the language and attitudes he has been exposed to.

“I have spoken with Luther to apologise for what he has experienced and to offer support. While there is a lot of positive activity in the area of equality, diversity and inclusion this is a reminder of how far we still need to go.” (Guardian)


Last edited by No 7&1/2 on Mon Jun 27, 2022 7:26 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : additional quotes, with source)

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Post by Old Man Sun Jun 26, 2022 5:32 pm

I don't get why people don't just stop doing it. You should be able to think for yourself that in today's society it is simply not acceptable, even if you think it is meant as a joke or casual banter.

Just stop doing it. Considering the cover it has had in the media about inclusivity et all, you really need to be pretty ignorant about it to continue with racial slurs etc.

When will people learn?

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Post by Guest Sun Jun 26, 2022 5:48 pm

There are some very interesting and disturbing issues raised in that piece. WTF is wrong with people? Interesting that he seems to link a lot of it to class and the private school system, citing the recent examples of this in cricket too which has a similar class thing.

Another thing was the sun cream thing. Someone saying he didn’t need to wear sun cream is one thing, and perhaps a forgivable/regrettable lack of knowledge and understanding (we’d need to hear the context of the conversation to judge this). Ignorance perhaps. But the person who went on to say that he needed sun cream ‘where he used to have shackles from when he was a slave’. That’s the sort of thing the worst racist comedians might say, and which is not tolerated in society whatsoever. So to come from relatively young professional sports people…..it’s mind blowing. Just unreal to read those sort of comments in 2022. Could in no way be considered ‘banter’. Really surprising.

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Post by mikey_dragon Sun Jun 26, 2022 7:24 pm

Very disturbing 'banter' and a line crossed that cannot be uncrossed. Interesting that he also suggests it could be a class issue - I've always thought that was partly the problem when it comes to this subject. I don't really understand as it's not an upper class sport where I'm from. When you play rugby you are accepted into the fold and you make friends for life, that's always how I've known it to be. Very sad that someone is made to feel unaccepted because of their race and background.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sun Jun 26, 2022 8:01 pm

Name, shame and ban. Only way forward.

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Post by BamBam Sun Jun 26, 2022 8:42 pm

Just another indication of where we are in society at the moment.

I’m sure there will be plenty of “anti woke” warriors wanting to know “why he didn’t speak up at the time”, accusing him of “jumping on the bandwagon” or “playing the race card”.

Most of those will also have had a problem with taking the knee to highlight that racism still exists - doesn’t that makes them anti, anti racist?!


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Post by doctor_grey Sun Jun 26, 2022 9:42 pm

In the world today, let alone 10, 20, 50 or more years ago, it is impossible to not know the meaning and historical background of 'N' word. To use it shows just a small bit about the attitudes and ignorance still out there in force. The whole article, while disturbing, has such a familiar ring to it from other people in other situations, makes it another real commentary about the world we live in.

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Post by king_carlos Sun Jun 26, 2022 9:57 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:Name, shame and ban. Only way forward.

It's usually much easier to worm out of than actually face action though depressingly.

Look at Michael Vaughan being back in the TMS commentary box (BBCs flagship cricket coverage it's important to drive home there) not long after he was accused of racist comments that were corroborated by 2 further players it was directed at.

Incredibly depressing article on Burrells experiences. Some of that just beggars belief.

I started playing rugby and cricket outside the private school system in local clubs across England, Scotland and Wales then later played both in the private school system as my father was in the forces so we had assistance with fees to attend boarding school so I didn't have to switch schools every time he got a new posting. My experience is there was clear elements of racism, misogyny and homophobia (sometimes overt, sometimes more discreet but certainly there) in all settings.

I do think the misogyny aspect has improved with the rise of women's sport, hence clubs being less male dominated environments. It still has a long way to go though.

The homophobia side has improved a bit too. It's still there (see how few outwardly gay/bi sportsman there are) but certainly 'less aggressive' would be my description compared to what it once was. I'm outwardly bisexual and in my late teens moved cricket and rugby clubs due to experiences with coaches and parents (not teammates, which is interesting given we were older kids but still just kids playing sport together).

Rugby in the UK is a very white sport though, where there is a lack of diversity discrimination against those with little representation almost always sits there hand in hand from my experience.

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Post by Geordie Mon Jun 27, 2022 5:02 pm

As i posted on the falcons forum, i genuinely hope this hasnt happened during his stint with us, but if it has then i hope the new coaching set up deal with it firmly and correctly.

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Post by Irish Londoner Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:14 pm

What I don't understand with this, is that we are now two decades into the 21st century, if this sort of "banter" ever was acceptable we're well past that point now, so what is it in the tiny minds of some people that makes them think it's acceptable.

This is just mad (from the Mail):
Towards the end of the meal, he (Burrell) pulled out his phone and opened up a group WhatsApp chat.
Negro,’ wrote one player.
‘Racist,’ replied another.
‘Yes,’ said the first player.
The next notification showed a different player immediately leaving the group. ‘This was three days ago,’ he said at the time.

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Post by BamBam Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:29 pm

There were plenty on this forum defending “anti woke” not that long ago, it’s not that surprising to me that similar “banter” still exists in rugby dressing rooms

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Post by Geordie Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:40 pm

BamBam wrote:There were plenty on this forum defending “anti woke” not that long ago, it’s not that surprising to me that similar “banter” still exists in rugby dressing rooms

Your probably referring to me...but was that not in relation to BLM etc which is quite a divisive topic.

I dont tolerate racism.

I also dont think it helps the situation where you have movie "celebs" and Rap stars etc addressing each other by " Yo N...."

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Post by Old Man Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:49 pm

BamBam wrote:There were plenty on this forum defending “anti woke” not that long ago, it’s not that surprising to me that similar “banter” still exists in rugby dressing rooms

There is woke and then there is racism. I am anti racism of any form. However I am anti woke. Maybe it is my age, maybe it is the ridiculous shyte that is posted on social media these days. I have two brother in laws that are gay, so I am not anti gay either. But this insistence that there is aminority of people that demand validation with these weird videos dressed and made up as tigers, cats or whatever else explaining what a sis this a pan that or whatever acrynom they can come up with is, is just ridiculous.

People wanting tochange the dictionary with new pronouns and governments cowtowing to changing a breast feedingmother to chestfeeding etc is just taking the mickey,and nobody speaks up about it.

Live and let live, do whatever you want to do, I don't force my ideoligies upon anyone, neither should they. Anyway this is a heated topic to venture into, best leave it at that.

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Post by Geordie Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:53 pm

Old Man, you've perfectly summed up my feelings in one post.

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Post by BamBam Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:58 pm

I couldn’t actually recall who it was but if you both think it could be referring to you then probably!

We’ll have to agree to disagree on whether BLM was divisive or not.

Are you aware that black people have reclaimed the N word? And no, you can’t use it just because they do between themselves!

Live and let live is absolutely my way of looking at it too. If someone wants to be called by a different set of pronouns it’s no skin off my nose to try and accommodate that

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Post by Old Man Mon Jun 27, 2022 7:13 pm

BamBam wrote:I couldn’t actually recall who it was but if you both think it could be referring to you then probably!

We’ll have to agree to disagree on whether BLM was divisive or not.

Are you aware that black people have reclaimed the N word? And no, you can’t use it just because they do between themselves!

Live and let live is absolutely my way of looking at it too. If someone wants to be called by a different set of pronouns it’s no skin off my nose to try and accommodate that

I actuallyhaven't shared my thoughts on the woke culture before, just thought I would share my thoughts on it. A little Wink

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Post by Geordie Mon Jun 27, 2022 7:16 pm

BamBam wrote:I couldn’t actually recall who it was but if you both think it could be referring to you then probably!

We’ll have to agree to disagree on whether BLM was divisive or not.

Are you aware that black people have reclaimed the N word? And no, you can’t use it just because they do between themselves!

Live and let live is absolutely my way of looking at it too. If someone wants to be called by a different set of pronouns it’s no skin off my nose to try and accommodate that

Yes, we'll agree to disagree about BLM.

As to the N word...then that just opens up a WHOLE can of worms. So its ok for one part of society to use it, but its racist for others? Oh dear lord. And they wonder why racism is never fixed.

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Post by BamBam Mon Jun 27, 2022 7:25 pm

Right so racism would be fixed if white people could use the word or black people stopped using the word? Or if black people stopped highlighting the fact racism does still exist by taking a knee?

I imagine your original comment was prompted by Kendrick Lamar’s appearance at Glastonbury last night. Here’s his view on it:

Now in a new cover interview for Vanity Fair, Lamar has defended his decision.

“Let me put it to you in its simplest form,” said Lamar. “I’ve been on this earth for 30 years, and there’s been so many things a Caucasian person said I couldn’t do. Get good credit. Buy a house in an urban city. So many things—’you can’t do that’—whether it’s from afar or close up.

“So if I say this is my word, let me have this one word, please let me have that word.”

Seems fair enough to me

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Post by Geordie Mon Jun 27, 2022 7:31 pm

BamBam wrote:Right so racism would be fixed if white people could use the word or black people stopped using the word?

I imagine your original comment was prompted by Kendrick Lamar’s appearance at Glastonbury last night. Here’s his view on it:


Now in a new cover interview for Vanity Fair, Lamar has defended his decision.

“Let me put it to you in its simplest form,” said Lamar. “I’ve been on this earth for 30 years, and there’s been so many things a Caucasian person said I couldn’t do. Get good credit. Buy a house in an urban city. So many things—’you can’t do that’—whether it’s from afar or close up.

“So if I say this is my word, let me have this one word, please let me have that word.”

Seems fair enough to me

i havent seen Glastonbury

But no...if you have a major topic such as racism, and you go being half hearted about it, you will never fix it.

The N word has always been deemed a highly derogatory / inflammatory term. The best move isd to stop ANYONE using it. Not just certain parts of society as they see fit.

This wishy washy, some can some cant approach, NEVER works. Not in business, not in life and certainly not in issues such as this. And nothing you can say will change my mind on that.

If certain people keep using the N word, expect other areas of society to continue also.

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Post by BamBam Mon Jun 27, 2022 7:38 pm

People must be completely thick if they want to use it just because black people use it to refer to each other. Either that or they’re just racists. Why any white person would want to use it given the historical connotations is beyond me

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Post by RDW Mon Jun 27, 2022 7:42 pm

Folks I've locked this thread - this is going well outside of rugby discussions and will only end one way

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