WALES INTERNATIONAL: GAMES, SQUADS, TOURNAMENTS, CHAT - SUMMER TOUR & SEASON 2022/23

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Here it is:

Springbok team to face Wales in Cape Town:
15 – Damian Willemse (DHL Stormers) – 17 caps, 12 pts (1t, 2c, 1p)
14 – Cheslin Kolbe (Toulon) – 19 caps 18pts, 50pts (10t)
13 – Lukhanyo Am (Cell C Sharks) – 27 caps, 25 pts (5t)
12 – Damian de Allende (Wild Knights) – 59 caps, 35 pts (7t)
11 – Makazole Mapimpi (Cell C Sharks) – 26 caps, 100 pts (20t)
10 – Handre Pollard (Leicester Tigers) – 61 caps, 613 pts (6t, 83c, 131p, 4d)
9 – Jaden Hendrikse (Cell C Sharks) – 3 caps, 5 pts (1t)
8 – Jasper Wiese (Leicester Tigers) – 12 caps, 0 pts
7 – Pieter-Steph du Toit (Toyota Verblitz) – 59 caps, 25 pts (5t)
6 – Siya Kolisi (captain, Cell C Sharks) – 64 caps, 30 pts (6t)
5 – Lood de Jager (Wild Knights) – 57 caps, 25 pts (5t)
4 – Eben Etzebeth (Cell C Sharks) – 99 caps, 15 pts (3t)
3 – Frans Malherbe (DHL Stormers) – 47 caps, 5pts (1t)
2 – Bongi Mbonambi (Cell C Sharks) – 49 caps, 50 pts (10t)
1 – Trevor Nyakane (Racing 92) – 55 caps, 5pts (1t)

Replacements:
16 – Malcolm Marx (Kubota Spears) – 48 caps, 55 pts (11t)
17 – Steven Kitshoff (DHL Stormers) – 60 caps, 5pts (1t)
18 – Vincent Koch (Wasps) 33 caps, 0 pts
19 – Franco Mostert (Honda Heat) – 52 caps, 5pts (1t)
20 – Kwagga Smith (Shizuoka Blue Revs) – 20 caps, 5 pts (1t)
21 – Elrigh Louw (Vodacom Bulls) – 1 cap, 0pts
22 – Faf de Klerk (Canon Eagles) – 37caps, 25pts (5t)
23 – Willie le Roux (Toyota Verblitz) – 73 caps, 60 pts (12t)

What was good from Wales was that they realised that we can generate quick ball, and when you do you usually score a few tries. If we play like that more often and shore up the defence, we’ll be a decent team. I feel our scrum and maul is still good, we’ve lacked accuracy there and also been a bit unlucky. And of the squad, Rhys Webb is the best 9. Williams wasn’t anywhere near as good for Wales as he is for Cardiff. I sincerely hope Gareth Davies gets called up and Hardy drops out.

Nicky Smith, Dewi Lake, Will Rowlands, Ross Moriarty, Morgan Morris, Jake Ball, Johnny Williams and of course Gareth Davies all to come back in for me.

No idea whether Jake Ball has been playing well. Where is he now? Oz? How’s he getting on? What about Cory Hill? Seen his name mentioned a few times as being available now if/when the cap rule changes. How’s he getting on?

Funny how things turn out. It was a few years back now, but there was a time when Rhys Webb, Tomos Williams and Gareth Davies were all in top form and no one knew which one to pick! Be great if they all get back to form at the same time again. On their day they’re all classy 9s. Always liked Gareth Davies when on form and sniping. A try scoring machine for a 9. Would love to see him back in if fit and firing and on form.

TAFKA The Oracle wrote:No idea whether Jake Ball has been playing well. Where is he now? Oz? How’s he getting on? What about Cory Hill? Seen his name mentioned a few times as being available now if/when the cap rule changes. How’s he getting on?

Both in Japan. I think Gats name dropped Cory before. I wouldn't pick him at lock, just doesn't seem big enough compared to everyone else. Jake Ball is a big carrier.

Yep, I was a huge JB fan before he left. Does he actually want to play for Wales again? Would be great if so.

mikey_dragon wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Biggar's been lippy even by his standards lately, which isn't a good look even if you're playing well, which as you say, he isn't. Likewise, Josh Adams needs to spend less time playing Billy Big B0llocks. I really don't like him.

Better to be Billy Big B0llocks like Adams, rather than trying (and failing) to be a pretty boy like Stuart Hogg.

What's Stuart Hogg got to do with it?

TAFKA The Oracle wrote:

George Carlin wrote:Let me ask the obvious question because Scotland fans had to grapple with this 5 years ago - surely it is better for the senior Welsh players to leave for non-Wales clubs and free up space for the youngsters to get some game time?

It will be much less attractive for the fans to watch, at least initially, but it must be the only way for the standard of the national team squad to improve on the limited budget which the WRU (and other unions) has?

George, I think you’d be right if a) we only had 2 sides and b) if the senior players actually played a lot for their clubs! How many senior players are we talking about in reality? Maybe 10? Spread over 4 clubs? And they often only play around 10 games a season so plenty of chance to blood youngsters. So not massively blocking talent coming through.

I know this has been said before, and I know this is going to sound offensive (sorry!), but I don’t think the Scotland is a great example of success with that model. If it was then yes I’d be more inclined to want to follow it. Yes a couple of half decent years on the bounce now for the Scotland national team. But nothing really to show for it. The Scottish clubs are having a slightly better time of it than the Welsh regions. But not massively so. We’re not talking Euro champs or consistent URC/Pro league winners. Less than the Welsh even (is that right?), historically?

I’m happy to wait and see what the restructure brings. Out of necessity we’ll probably see some leaving as the funding is reducing but I still think the best thing for national success is having the best players at home. All the top nations do that.

Absolutely no offence taken - you won't find a single Scotland fan who thinks that professionalism was done well - evidenced most obviously by opening a third pro team and then realising afterwards it had no fan base.

Glasgow winning the Pro 12 in 2015 was the one exception to this, but to make your point, that was done with a large number of senior players from the Scotland squad (Hogg, Seymour, Russell, Lamont, Gray, Wilson, Strauss) plus a couple of other test level players who were stars of their own national teams (Matawalu, van der Merwe and Nakarawa).

It's tough because I also agree with the other point, which is that national team success does not mean that your pro franchises are automatically also in healthy shape. They can hide a lot and Wales during Gatland's tenure was also proof of that.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Biggar's been lippy even by his standards lately, which isn't a good look even if you're playing well, which as you say, he isn't. Likewise, Josh Adams needs to spend less time playing Billy Big B0llocks. I really don't like him.

Better to be Billy Big B0llocks like Adams, rather than trying (and failing) to be a pretty boy like Stuart Hogg.

What's Stuart Hogg got to do with it?

Everything. Who would be focusing on Josh Adams when Hogg is about...

Just read a surprising stat - George North has just become Wales' all time leading try scorer in the 6N, overtaking Shane Williams. 23 tries in the 6N. I honestly didn't know he was that close to the record. Credit where it's due. Cracking effort from North

Still 14 to go to beat Shane's Wales overall total though but perhaps a couple of years left in him.

North is into the world 10 top of international try scorers with 46 test tries.
He's level on tries scored with Cullen, Rokocoko and Savea, and 1 behind O'Driscoll.

Cracking player at his peak, seemingly just a little unfortunate with some of the more established guys ahead of him else he could have gone onto be a more prominant modern day great for Wales.

BBc: 'Cardiff and Wales back row Josh Navidi has been forced to retire because of a "serious neck injury".

The versatile forward has made 33 Wales appearances and was an uncapped British and Irish Lions tourist to South Africa in 2021.

Navidi, 32, made his Cardiff debut in 2009 and became a fans' favourite.

"It is with great sadness but also an immense amount of pride that I am announcing my retirement from rugby," said Navidi.

"Although I knew this day would come eventually, I don't think I was ever really able to prepare myself for how difficult it would be to put into words just how much of an impact the game has had on my life.

"I am enormously grateful to everyone at Cardiff Rugby. I started my career with the club in 2009, and over those 14 years, there have been so many memories made that will stay with me for the rest of my life."

During 14 years of top-flight rugby, Navidi tasted European Challenge Cup success with Cardiff, helped Wales win a Grand Slam among three Six Nations titles and played his part as Wales made the 2019 Rugby World Cup semi-finals.

In a statement Cardiff said: "Josh Navidi will retire from rugby with immediate effect after failing to successfully recover from a serious neck injury."

Navidi won his first Wales cap in Japan in 2013 while his Cardiff back row colleague Sam Warburton was leading the Lions on tour in Australia.

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The former Wales Under-20s captain was equally effective across all three back row positions, making him a useful member of Wales, Lions and Cardiff squads.

But he underwent surgery after struggling for fitness early on in 2022-23. and hopes he would return by the end of the season have been dashed.

Cardiff boss Dai Young paid tribute, saying: "Josh can be enormously proud of his career and everything he has contributed whether in a blue and black or red jersey.

"He has been one of the best back-row forwards in the world over the past number of years and while his playing time for Cardiff has been limited in recent years, what he has contributed over more than a decade is huge.

"He was one of the club's best and most consistent performers season after season and to make 184 first team appearances and win 33 caps in such an abrasive position is no mean feat.

"Everyone at Cardiff sends Josh our very best wishes for the future and look forward to seeing him as a supporter in the future."

Navidi was a great player, always gave 100%. His Wales caps should have come a lot sooner.

Navidi always made a difference to our backrow physicality. I do agree that he often had players ahead of him, that were more in favour. Hope he doesn't have too many issues going forward.

The full Wales preliminary training squad for Rugby World Cup 2023

Forwards (31)

Rhys Carre (Cardiff Rugby – 20 caps), Corey Domachowski (Cardiff Rugby – uncapped), Kemsley Mathias (Scarlets – uncapped), Nicky Smith (Ospreys – 42 caps), Gareth Thomas (Ospreys – 21 caps), Eliott Dee (Dragons – 41 caps), Ryan Elias (Scarlets – 33 caps), Dewi Lake (Ospreys – 8 caps), Ken Owens (Scarlets – 91 caps), Keiron Assiratti (Cardiff Rugby – uncapped), Tomas Francis (Ospreys – 71 caps), Will Davies-King (Cardiff Rugby – uncapped), Dillon Lewis (Cardiff Rugby – 50 caps), Henry Thomas (Montpellier – uncapped), Adam Beard (Ospreys – 46 caps), Ben Carter (Dragons – 9 caps), Rhys Davies (Ospreys – 2 caps), Cory Hill (Yokohama Canon Eagles – 32 caps), Dafydd Jenkins (Exeter Chiefs – 6 cap), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys – 157 caps), Will Rowlands (Dragons – 23 caps), Christ Tshiunza (Exeter Chiefs – 5 caps), Teddy Williams (Cardiff Rugby – uncapped), Taine Basham (Dragons – 11 caps), Taulupe Faletau (Cardiff Rugby – 100 caps), Dan Lydiate (Ospreys – 68 caps), Josh Macleod (Scarlets – 2 caps), Jac Morgan (Ospreys – 9 caps), Tommy Reffell (Leicester Tigers – 9 caps), Justin Tipuric (Ospreys – 93 caps), Aaron Wainwright (Dragons – 37 caps)

Backs (23)

Gareth Davies (Scarlets – 67 caps), Kieran Hardy (Scarlets – 17 caps), Rhys Webb (Ospreys – 40 caps), Tomos Williams (Cardiff Rugby – 45 caps), Gareth Anscombe (Ospreys – 35 caps), Dan Biggar (Toulon – 107 caps), Sam Costelow (Scarlets – 2 caps), Owen Williams (Ospreys – 7 caps), Mason Grady (Cardiff Rugby – 2 caps), Max Llewellyn (Cardiff Rugby – uncapped), George North (Ospreys – 113 caps), Joe Roberts (Scarlets – uncapped), Nick Tompkins (Saracens – 27 caps), Johnny Williams (Scarlets – 5 caps), Keiran Williams (Ospreys – uncapped), Josh Adams (Cardiff Rugby – 49 caps), Alex Cuthbert (Ospreys – 57 caps), Rio Dyer (Dragons – 7 caps), Cai Evans (Ospreys – uncapped), Leigh Halfpenny (Scarlets – 99 caps), Louis Rees-Zammit (Gloucester Rugby – 25 caps), Tom Rogers (Scarlets – 2 caps), Liam Williams (Cardiff Rugby – 84 caps)

Some surprises in there. I would’ve expected Botha to get called up and not Henry Thomas. Don’t really like that new cap rule, but I guess others are benefitting from it. Good of Ieuan Evans to get his son a place.

Didn't even realise Thomas had Welsh ancestry.

That squad just seems really light on experience, so many uncapped players!

So glad Henry Thomas has finally decided to come home despite those England caps…. He’ll be world class this time next year.

mikey_dragon wrote:So glad Henry Thomas has finally decided to come home despite those England caps…. He’ll be world class this time next year.

Where's Joe Hawkins, is he injured?

Joe Hawkins is fit as far as I know. It really is an odd decision to exclude him but include a bunch of others moving on for pastures new.

mikey_dragon wrote:Joe Hawkins is fit as far as I know. It really is an odd decision to exclude him but include a bunch of others moving on for pastures new.

I've just seen that he's been excluded because he's signed for Chiefs. Llewellyn who's signed for Glaws is allowed in though as he's uncapped and Rowlands is allowed in even though he's capped and moving abroad because he only needs 2 caps to reach 25. Nice and straightforward rulings there then.

As an aside probably good to cap Llewellyn given he's also EQ and may have had an offer if uncapped and in good form, particularly if he strikes up a combination with the impressive Seb Atkinson.

Yes, that’s one of the reasons why it is an odd decision. I also wonder, did Moriarty do something to upset Gats?

No Tom Botha, finally WQ and still a scrum powerhouse.

No Bradley Roberts… he’s better than Dee and Elias.

Good to see some of the other props in, they’re not far off what is required at this level. I expect Llewelyn and Grady will progress, they could be seen as Wales’ new midfield. I also expect some of the guff like Tom Rogers will be gone by then too, it is just a training squad after all.

Also no Thomas Young or Morgan Morris. Probably the two best all-round flankers we have.

I've had a read of the statement release RE Hawkins. I still don't get it.

A statement from Joe Hawkins about his ineligibility for Wales ahead of his move to Exeter. Have to say, I'm 100% behind Hawkins on this one. Agree with what he's said. Gotta secure yourself as a rugby player first and foremost, and then international is the cherry on the cake if and when it comes. No point being an international on either no contract or peanuts. Those players were under immense pressure at the time so if someone like Exeter comes knocking it's a bit of a no brainer. Club rugby is their bread and butter, their 9-5. Got to secure that first in my opinion. Just unfortunate with the timing of his first cap I suppose:

Joe Hawkins’ statement
The statement on his social media accounts read: “Gaining my first cap for Wales in the Autumn Internationals was an incredibly proud day for my family and I, and continuing to wear the Welsh jersey in the Six Nations fulfilled a childhood dream of mine.

“Unfortunately, I have been deemed ineligible to play for Wales, and the opportunity to play in the World Cup is no longer a possibility. I wish the boys and staff the best of luck, and I am truly gutted I can’t share this journey with them.

“I want to acknowledge that by signing for the Exeter Chiefs, my first professional contract, I have fully prioritised my rugby career. I have done so with my professional development, personal development and financial security in mind.

“The turbulent period in Welsh rugby, where there were no contracts on offer in Wales, put all out-of-contract players under pressure. Witnessing the number of players currently out of a job in Wales has reinforced my decision.

“Further, while I have spent the last three years playing professional rugby, and later, international rugby, I have been held to an ‘academy contract’, being significantly underpaid.”

“As a passionate rugby player, my ultimate goal is to fulfil my potential for both my club and country, despite this being put on hold for now.

“However, I am very grateful and excited to focus on next season with my new club. I am determined to work hard and achieve success with my new team-mates at Sandy Park over the coming years.”

Completely understandable, though I've seen a few comments around the idea he's getting ahead of himself, i.e. he's only 20 and wanting x amount etc. It's exactly the situation that England are soon to find themselves in as players look to ensure a certain financial underline of a club contract over potential international honours.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Completely understandable, though I've seen a few comments around the idea he's getting ahead of himself, i.e. he's only 20 and wanting x amount etc. It's exactly the situation that England are soon to find themselves in as players look to ensure a certain financial underline of a club contract over potential international honours.

I can see that side of the argument, but there was talk of full internationals currently on 6 figure salaries at Ospreys being offered £30k for contract renewals, so someone still on an academy contract would be offered a pittance I should imagine.  Yes he's only 20 but market value for a pro centre, probably 1st choice starter, international class (subjective, I know)..... I can only imagine the Exeter offer was much more in line with a what a pro player of that standing could/should be paid in Europe, regardless of age, than any Ospreys offer on the table.  And that's even if Ospreys actually made an offer?  Not sure that they did.

Just read that Henry Thomas has been axed by Montpellier after agreeing to join the Wales training camp. Not renewing his contract. I’ve got no comment on the club as they’re free to do what they want and need World Cup cover so completely understand it, but just feel it’s a helluva gamble for the player. He may not even get selected from the training squad! And who is he going to play for now? Would any Welsh region come in for him? And would they be able to pay him anything near what Montpellier pay him?! Nice interview with him on Walesonline.

It's interesting, as you say. It seems like he has to sign in Wales now, or he is not eligible for selection as it will be a new contract signed. I know a few teams could do with a tighthead, but whether the budgets allow it. The obvious choice might be Cardiff, but seeing as Dragons are looking for a prop (although probably more a loosehead for us), maybe we might go in for him.

Would be great if we can get him. But it’s a bit of a down step (no offence to us Dragons!) from French champions to worst Welsh region (TM). But like you say coming to Wales might be his only option now.

Cardiff makes sense, but they don’t seem to be making noise about bringing players in at all… We’ll take him for sure.

mikey_dragon wrote:Cardiff makes sense, but they don’t seem to be making noise about bringing players in at all… We’ll take him for sure.

I think Cardiff’s problem is that some of their big earners and star players such as Faletau are still in contract at the moment with the new funding deal kicking in. So whereas this season they were paying 20% of his wages, from next season they’ll need to pay 100%. Let’s say he’s on £400k, that’s an extra £320k to find from next season! So it’s like signing a couple of pros but without actually getting anyone new in the squad! I’m guessing a bit with the figures but that’s my understanding of how it works. Dragons were relatively lucky that Moriarty came out of contract as I think he was our top earner and we would have needed to find all of that £400k plus. So for Cardiff I think they’re a bit hamstrung in terms of making new signings. And with the sad loss of Peter Thomas I guess there’s some uncertainty about the benefactor support going forward (and I think that’s a stipulation of the funding deal?).

Their other issue is having earners like Turnbull and Seb Davies. Two of the worst I’ve seen.

mikey_dragon wrote:Their other issue is having earners like Turnbull and Seb Davies. Two of the worst I’ve seen.

He can't be a huge earner. Granted he isn't world class but given he is rarely injured he isn't a bad squad player.

I think both would be decent back-row cover for when everybody in the league has their internationals away. Both aren't physical enough for me. I have no idea how much either player is earning, but you know, Cardiff did have quite a few average players with inflated wages. Chopping both would save money.

Surprisingly, I actually see the worth in Rory Thornton, so long as he has a top player alongside him. I still don't see the worth in either of Turnbull or Davies.

Mark Jones replaces Byron Hayward as Wales U20 coach!

I had anticipated Jones being involved somehow within the WRU setup soon enough. Hopefully he goes well, as I believe he is quite highly thought of.

He’s got some good coaching experience and will be a step-up on the previous coach. He will only do some much, we don’t seem to have many good players coming through recently.

mikey_dragon wrote:He’s got some good coaching experience and will be a step-up on the previous coach. He will only do some much, we don’t seem to have many good players coming through recently.

This is a big issue at the moment. I'm hoping that more players move over to sides like Exeter, Bristol & Gloucester when they're in college as this may improve the under 20s.

Oakdene wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:He’s got some good coaching experience and will be a step-up on the previous coach. He will only do some much, we don’t seem to have many good players coming through recently.

This is a big issue at the moment. I'm hoping that more players move over to sides like Exeter, Bristol & Gloucester when they're in college as this may improve the under 20s.

You can send a couple more to the East Midlands. Another Reffell or two would be welcome. Shame Costelow went home to early.

Tipuric retires from international rugby effective immediately. Well that's a surprise. What's Gats done to irritate him?

Followed immediately by AWJ!

What is going on?

And Alun Wyn Jones follows Tipuric in retiring an hour later. I'm guessing they were told they wouldn't make the final World Cup squad, even if that does seem a bit early, or there's been some big falling-out in the Welsh camp?

Wonder if any more retirements will follow?

Duty281 wrote:And Alun Wyn Jones follows Tipuric in retiring an hour later. I'm guessing they were told they wouldn't make the final World Cup squad, even if that does seem a bit early, or there's been some big falling-out in the Welsh camp?

Wonder if any more retirements will follow?

Seems rather a stretch at this stage - surely if you don't intend to even consider them, don't select them in the wider squad.
Could be results of initial fitness tests / chronic injury issues?

The timing is very odd though, and does tend to point to some issues in camp - I don' think losing present day A-WJ is that big a deal now as he's not the player he was, Tipuric is still one of the best available back row players in Wales.

Wonder if there is more to come out about it. It seemed like AWJ was stopping after the WC, but for Tipuric to continue for Ospreys seems a bit mad.

Very sad day indeed.

Agree with Dummy Half, that AWJ is not a big loss (although he stills shows occasional flashes of excellent play for Wales). But Tips is a loss no doubt. He’s been on fire for Ospreys this season. Got dropped for Wales after 1 bad game. Wonder if that’s something to do with it?

Tips would have been one of the first back row names on my squad list for this WC.

Edit: I wonder if this is more of a WRU thing than a Wales/Gatland thing. I think they were both pretty senior figures and heavily involved in the contract disputes ahead of the England 6N game. Maybe that has soured things. Or maybe the WRU is drastically cutting World Cup salaries and they weren’t happy?

Somewhat unexpected. I wouldn't have been surprised if either of them did not make the Wales World Cup squad. Now, call up Thomas Young and Jake Ball....

TAFKA The Oracle wrote:Agree with Dummy Half, that AWJ is not a big loss (although he stills shows occasional flashes of excellent play for Wales). But Tips is a loss no doubt. He’s been on fire for Ospreys this season. Got dropped for Wales after 1 bad game. Wonder if that’s something to do with it?

Tips would have been one of the first back row names on my squad list for this WC.

AWJ did still put in excellent displays on occasion, more often than Tipuric in recent times. Tips also wasn’t a strong enough force at the breakdown so it’s no surprise he was previously dropped. Has there been many occasions where he was excellent for Wales but didn’t have another open-side with him? (Warburton, Navidi, Morgan).

He still puts in great displays for Ospreys and as he’s never shown interest in moving away so he might be a good choice for their captain over the next couple of years.

The WRU didn't have anything ready to post on their social media channels for Tipuric so his decision caught them by surprise.

Oil4Wales, someone who I think I am right in saying provide sponsorship for all 4 regions in some way or another have announced they are suspending any new deals until the WRU sorts itself out.

Very interesting that. I am sure the WRU won't bat an eyelid, but more of this needs to happen for them to wake up (in my opinion).