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URC Round 6

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Oakdene
Old Man
carpet baboon
BigGee
RiscaGame
LeinsterFan4life
RugbyFan100
Kingshu
Welshmushroom
mikey_dragon
neilthom7
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URC Round 6 - Page 2 Empty URC Round 6

Post by neilthom7 Wed 19 Oct 2022, 6:22 pm

First topic message reminder :

Round 6, starting to really get into the season now and table constantly altering, looks like it's going to be a tight year.

All games on Premier Sports, URC Tv, SuperSport and Discovery+

Friday 21st October 2022

Benetton v Vodacom Bulls- Stadio Monigo, Treviso – KO 17.30 IRE & UK / 18.30 ITA & SA- Live on: Eurosport

Connacht v Scarlets- The Sportsground, Galway – KO 19.35 IRE & UK / 20.35 ITA & SA- Live on: TG4, BBC Wales

Saturday 22nd October 2022

Zebre Parma v Edinburgh Rugby- Stadio Lanfranchi, Parma – KO 13.00 IRE & UK / 14.00 ITA & SA

Emirates Lions v Glasgow Warriors- Emirates Airline Park, Johannesburg – KO 15.05  IRE & UK / 16.05 ITA & SA- Live on: TG4

Cell C Sharks v Ulster- Hollywoodbets Kings Park, Durban – KO 17.15 IRE & UK / 18.15 ITA & SA

Leinster v Munster- Aviva Stadium, Dublin – KO 17.15 IRE & UK / 18.15 ITA & SA- Live on: RTÉ

Cardiff Rugby v DHL Stormers- Cardiff Arms Park, Cardiff – KO 19.35 IRE & UK / 20.35 ITA & SA- Live on: S4C

Sunday 22nd October 2022

Dragons RFC v Ospreys- Rodney Parade, Newport – KO 15.00 IRE & UK / 16.00 ITA & SA

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Post by demosthenes Sun 23 Oct 2022, 9:00 am

Old Man wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Old Man wrote:I don't know how the Frak Cardiff is getting away with the Poopie they do at the breakdown. They literally have carte blanche from this referee

You say the same after every match.

Been complaining about rucks and mauls this whole season.

I still do not understand how defending players end up at the back of attacking mauls without changing binds.

Either the SA teams don't understand the way referees interpret the breakdown, or they are poorly coached. It has become a recurring theme now.

Have we seen any SA refs calling it differently? Or are there no SA refs in the URC?

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Post by mikey_dragon Sun 23 Oct 2022, 10:04 am

The SA refs are also in bed with the Irish... which would explain Connacht beating Scarlets!

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Post by RiscaGame Sun 23 Oct 2022, 4:49 pm

Brilliant result Dragons RFC. Think Ospreys should’ve taken scrums at the end, rather than kicking for touch. Smith would’ve absolutely toasted Coleman.

I thought Moriarty was probably my MOTM tbh, despite Riooooooo doing the highlight stuff.

Thoroughly enjoyable game though.

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Post by mikey_dragon Sun 23 Oct 2022, 4:52 pm

Caught the second half only, ref Was rather generous to Ospreys in that half. It must be concerning for them to lose in that manner. Good game though!

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Sun 23 Oct 2022, 6:28 pm

Well done Dragons on a great victory in a great game. Also congrats Cardiff on ending the Stormers unbeaten run, very impressive. A very good crowd of 45k in the aviva for the derby, great weekend for the league.

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Post by neilthom7 Sun 23 Oct 2022, 8:25 pm

29 cases of that illness amongst Ulster players with 11 staff affected too, with both e-coli and norovirus in the samples. Doesn't sound like a pleasant time.

Munster will most likely be a benefactor of this, no way those Ulster players can be fully fighting fit in time for next weekend. Hopefully they will have regained enough to be able to beat Munster.

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Post by PhilBB Mon 24 Oct 2022, 8:26 am

mikey_dragon wrote:Lousi and Fifita are lock forwards that can play in the back-row although I didn't really expect to see Lousi there, cracking player though, near enough MOTM most weeks. Shingler being injured doesn't help, so yeah a bit of an injury crises I guess. It might be worth looking to get short-term players on the books as well if they can fit in the budget. There's a few former Wuss and Wasps players available...

https://www.cardiffrfcfans.com/analysis/6002.php?playerID=1289 Lousi has only started one game wearing jersey 6.
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Post by PhilBB Mon 24 Oct 2022, 8:31 am

Old Man wrote:

Been complaining about rucks and mauls this whole season.

I still do not understand how defending players end up at the back of attacking mauls without changing binds.

Either the SA teams don't understand the way referees interpret the breakdown, or they are poorly coached. It has become a recurring theme now.

I'm often surprised by the lack of penalties awarded against SA teams for the illegal way they set up mauls, with the lifters blocking the catcher when forming the maul.

But it's quite easy to hit the side of a maul upon joining so that 'swimming around' is done without changing bind.
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Post by Oakdene Mon 24 Oct 2022, 8:49 am

Another defeat for us out in Galway, despite feeling quite content at half time our indiscipline & falling off tackles really cost us dear.

Going to be a long season but let's not rush & get rid of Peel, give him this season & next before seeing where we really are.

Word for Dan Thomas, played well but was a little keen coming out of the line in defence but overall was impressed with him.

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Post by mikey_dragon Mon 24 Oct 2022, 9:13 am

Roberts not being in the Wales squad is looking a bit silly, again.

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Post by Oakdene Mon 24 Oct 2022, 9:17 am

Agreed Mikey, he looked very good yesterday. Also Moriarty put some big hits in so I can see him being called up at the first sign of an injury in the back row.

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Post by RiscaGame Mon 24 Oct 2022, 9:27 am

Oakdene wrote:Agreed Mikey, he looked very good yesterday. Also Moriarty put some big hits in so I can see him being called up at the first sign of an injury in the back row.

He did, that's why I thought he was more my MOTM. Wainwright did the more standout things with his breaks etc, but I thought Moriarty definitely put in two cracking hits and offered himself as a carrier in the tight. It's that kind of work that he and Rowlands do, that can often go unnoticed (although people tend to notice Rowlands more).

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Post by Oakdene Mon 24 Oct 2022, 9:30 am

RiscaGame wrote:
Oakdene wrote:Agreed Mikey, he looked very good yesterday. Also Moriarty put some big hits in so I can see him being called up at the first sign of an injury in the back row.

He did, that's why I thought he was more my MOTM. Wainwright did the more standout things with his breaks etc, but I thought Moriarty definitely put in two cracking hits and offered himself as a carrier in the tight. It's that kind of work that he and Rowlands do, that can often go unnoticed (although people tend to notice Rowlands more).

Rowlands was exceptional in the lineout to be fair & I agree sometimes it's the unseen things (to most rugby viewers) that Ross does which makes him so good.

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Post by mikey_dragon Mon 24 Oct 2022, 10:36 am

Dewi Lake's injury is quite serious, unfortunately. We can't get much of a break with injuries... You'd assume Roberts is next in line though. Hopefully he develops into a top player the way Rowlands has done already.

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Post by RugbyFan100 Mon 24 Oct 2022, 10:36 am

Oakdene wrote:

Going to be a long season but let's not rush & get rid of Peel, give him this season & next before seeing where we really are.
.

So 3 seasons before anyone can judge his ability to be a head coach.

Wow that's a nice grace period.

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Post by RugbyFan100 Mon 24 Oct 2022, 10:38 am

mikey_dragon wrote:I think Scarlets are left with little choice now other than to show Peel the door.

And get who in? Chris Wyatt? Should never have employed him. Another example of the woeful recruitment strategy by Jon Daniels.

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Post by Oakdene Mon 24 Oct 2022, 10:52 am

RugbyFan100 wrote:
Oakdene wrote:

Going to be a long season but let's not rush & get rid of Peel, give him this season & next before seeing where we really are.
.

So 3 seasons before anyone can judge his ability to be a head coach.

Wow that's a nice grace period.

He didn't get a full season last season & he needs time to get the players he wants in & get everyone singing from the same sheet.


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Post by mikey_dragon Mon 24 Oct 2022, 11:06 am

RugbyFan100 wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:I think Scarlets are left with little choice now other than to show Peel the door.

And get who in? Chris Wyatt? Should never have employed him. Another example of the woeful recruitment strategy by Jon Daniels.

I have no idea who, but you'd think they would be sensible enough to not do another jobs for the boys appointment next time. If not now, I'd give Peel midway through this season, or at the end of the season. Definitely not another two or three seasons for him to settle in! This is pro rugby.

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Post by RugbyFan100 Mon 24 Oct 2022, 11:39 am

Oakdene wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
Oakdene wrote:

Going to be a long season but let's not rush & get rid of Peel, give him this season & next before seeing where we really are.
.

So 3 seasons before anyone can judge his ability to be a head coach.

Wow that's a nice grace period.

He didn't get a full season last season & he needs time to get the players he wants in & get everyone singing from the same sheet.


So judge him two and a half seasons into his three year contract? I suppose we'll end up doing that as we can't afford to sack him. So he's here no matter what the results are.

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Post by PhilBB Mon 24 Oct 2022, 11:43 am

It takes three years to turn around a post Covid squad. It's a bit rough to judge him on next season when he doesn't even know his squad spend for then, so can't properly begin recruitment.

Welsh rugby has to work with what it has, thanks to the WRU's complete incompetence.
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Post by PhilBB Mon 24 Oct 2022, 11:45 am

mikey_dragon wrote:Dewi Lake's injury is quite serious, unfortunately. We can't get much of a break with injuries... You'd assume Roberts is next in line though. Hopefully he develops into a top player the way Rowlands has done already.

Roberts is too small for international rugby, but beggars and choosers etc.

He's already played more almost double the minutes he played for Ulster in the 2 jersey.

Whether that's because Ulster have significantly better players or because he's improved in two months, you can judge.
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Post by neilthom7 Mon 24 Oct 2022, 1:10 pm

I think in fairness to Roberts he declared for Wales quite early last season, so after that he was probably always going to be a bit of a break glass in case of emergency type player for Ulster.  They knew he wouldn't be staying as he no longer was Irish qualified so chose to give the gametime to others who would be with them past the end of the season to help their development.

He's a good player and happy to see he landed on his feet at Dragons

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Post by PhilBB Mon 24 Oct 2022, 1:24 pm

neilthom7 wrote:I think in fairness to Roberts he declared for Wales quite early last season, so after that he was probably always going to be a bit of a break glass in case of emergency type player for Ulster.  They knew he wouldn't be staying as he no longer was Irish qualified so chose to give the gametime to others who would be with them past the end of the season to help their development.

He's a good player and happy to see he landed on his feet at Dragons

How does that explain the 95 minutes he played in 2020-21?
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Post by neilthom7 Mon 24 Oct 2022, 5:17 pm

He didn't actually sign a pro contract with Ulster to April 2021, he was only really discovered by Ulster during that season.

During 20/21 he had been playing for Rainey Old Boys (an AIL side from Magherafelt), while there he got noticed by some Ulster people who brought him up to train with the Ulster team, there were a few injuries and so he got some minutes, impressed enough during the time he trained/played to get himself a contract.

The feeling was when he left last year he was probably our number 2 behind Herring, had he not became Non Irish qualified he would most certainly have got a lot more minutes, the feeling was there was potential there. As it turned out Wales made the call and so we will never know if he would have displaced Herring this year.

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Post by Kingshu Mon 24 Oct 2022, 5:36 pm

PhilBB wrote:
neilthom7 wrote:I think in fairness to Roberts he declared for Wales quite early last season, so after that he was probably always going to be a bit of a break glass in case of emergency type player for Ulster.  They knew he wouldn't be staying as he no longer was Irish qualified so chose to give the gametime to others who would be with them past the end of the season to help their development.

He's a good player and happy to see he landed on his feet at Dragons

How does that explain the 95 minutes he played in 2020-21?

He only joined Ulster late Nov that season from Rainey Old Boys, as emergency injury cover and would have been 4th/5th choice, who much gametime would jave been excpeted, next season gor more as McBurnley who was ahead of hime was let go to move to Edinburgh, so got time as 3rd choice untill he declared for Wales and it became more limited.

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Post by RugbyFan100 Tue 25 Oct 2022, 9:48 am

PhilBB wrote:It takes three years to turn around a post Covid squad. It's a bit rough to judge him on next season when he doesn't even know his squad spend for then, so can't properly begin recruitment.

Welsh rugby has to work with what it has, thanks to the WRU's complete incompetence.

I think there are metrics that a coach can be judged on after 2 seasons, covid or not.

-Continuing set piece problems. The hookers can't find their jumpers for love nor money.
-No pillars at rucks. Who is coaching the forwards to be lazy and not bother protecting charge downs etc?
-Who is coaching the centres to take contact and play one diemnsional rugby? Peel was supposed to be a clever backs coach. We seem to have regressed from last season, when we at least scored some decent tries and did some backs moves. Now it's just - get a 10 metre platform from the number 12 crash ball and see what happens.
-Who is coaching the players to box kick far more than necessary?
-Selection issues. Outside centres on the bench and Steff Evans plays 13.

There are more that can be listed. Coaches can't just get a free pass because of covid. The hiring of Peel was an unmitigated disaster. And worse still, it enabled one of our competitors (Cardiff) to gain from our loss.

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Post by geoff999rugby Tue 25 Oct 2022, 2:07 pm

Roberts would have, at best, been 3rd choice for Ulster if he stayed.

Herring is a much better player and Stewart will be, if he is not already.
He would have been contesting with Andrew for the number three slot

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Post by PhilBB Wed 26 Oct 2022, 1:01 pm

So Roberts was playing club rugby, but would have been second choice, or third choice, but wasn't selected by IRFU Branch Ulster because he wasn't Irish, despite other non-Irish player(s) being selected.

But he would have been good enough even when playing club rugby, but just wasn't seen.

Or something.

Confusing.

Maybe he's just not that good?
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Post by PhilBB Wed 26 Oct 2022, 1:01 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote: And worse still, it enabled one of our competitors (Cardiff) to gain from our loss.

Yes, thanks for the cash.
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Post by RugbyFan100 Wed 26 Oct 2022, 1:38 pm

PhilBB wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote: And worse still, it enabled one of our competitors (Cardiff) to gain from our loss.

Yes, thanks for the cash.

I was told no cash was paid in compensation.

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Post by PhilBB Wed 26 Oct 2022, 1:56 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote: And worse still, it enabled one of our competitors (Cardiff) to gain from our loss.

Yes, thanks for the cash.

I was told no cash was paid in compensation.

Then you were misled.
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Post by Welshmushroom Fri 28 Oct 2022, 9:55 am

RugbyFan100 wrote:
PhilBB wrote:It takes three years to turn around a post Covid squad. It's a bit rough to judge him on next season when he doesn't even know his squad spend for then, so can't properly begin recruitment.

Welsh rugby has to work with what it has, thanks to the WRU's complete incompetence.

I think there are metrics that a coach can be judged on after 2 seasons, covid or not.

-Continuing set piece problems. The hookers can't find their jumpers for love nor money.
-No pillars at rucks. Who is coaching the forwards to be lazy and not bother protecting charge downs etc?
-Who is coaching the centres to take contact and play one diemnsional rugby? Peel was supposed to be a clever backs coach. We seem to have regressed from last season, when we at least scored some decent tries and did some backs moves. Now it's just - get a 10 metre platform from the number 12 crash ball and see what happens.
-Who is coaching the players to box kick far more than necessary?
-Selection issues. Outside centres on the bench and Steff Evans plays 13.

There are more that can be listed. Coaches can't just get a free pass because of covid. The hiring of Peel was an unmitigated disaster. And worse still, it enabled one of our competitors (Cardiff) to gain from our loss.

To be fair to Peel though he didn't pick this squad. I said before the season started a major overhaul was required. Scarlets, Ospreys and Dragons all extended their players contracts as part of the 25% pay reduction during Covid. Dragons were the only side who didn't do this which is why they culled so many players in the off season. Dai Young mentioned this was a major problem for him at the Blues.

I would imagine both Cardiff and Scarlets will be letting a fair few players go in 2023.

The real issue becomes who do they bring in because if the Regions are supposed to be producing players for Wales then you can't give them cart blanche because they will sign dozens of overseas players because they have failed to develop players from within. If the overseas cap stays in place then both Cardiff and Scarlets will only be able to target players from other Welsh Regions or Welsh players playing abroad. Not many of those about though of the quality required to compete in the URC.

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Post by mikey_dragon Fri 28 Oct 2022, 9:59 am

Both will let a few go, I can't see what overhaul at Scarlets is required, unless you are talking about the entire coaching team! They've produced some good props in recent years, Dan Thomas will likely come back. I'd certainly sign a NWQ at hooker if I were them though, and perhaps another lock (a South African).

Both teams also have a number of WQ players, a lot from their academy. Dai is a good coach given that he has actually improved that Cardiff team. I imagine he still wants to make some additions up front though.

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Post by Welshmushroom Fri 28 Oct 2022, 10:11 am

mikey_dragon wrote:Both will let a few go, I can't see what overhaul at Scarlets is required, unless you are talking about the entire coaching team! They've produced some good props in recent years, Dan Thomas will likely come back. I'd certainly sign a NWQ at hooker if I were them though, and perhaps another lock (a South African).

Both teams also have a number of WQ players, a lot from their academy. Dai is a good coach given that he has actually improved that Cardiff team. I imagine he still wants to make some additions up front though.

Cardiff really need to sort out their front 5. Lineout and scrum has been a problem for them all season so far. In my opinion he needs at least a quality tight head prop who can scrummage, possibly 2 hookers because I don't think his current crop are up to it. I actually also think he needs a quality loosehead to challenge Carre a bit as well. For the money those cost though I imagine he has to let a fair number of players go to afford those type of replacements.

Scarlets produce descent loosehead props and hookers. Tighthead is a problem throughout wales at the moment. They really have issues there and probably need to add a quality option here. 2 of their senior ones are constantly injured and you question if they provide any value to the club at all at this stage. I think he's also short at least another 2 locks. T. Price is rubbish and Fifita is probably a better blindside option that a actual lock. They need a quality openside option and a long term replacement for Kalamafoni at 8.

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Post by Oakdene Fri 28 Oct 2022, 10:15 am

Welshmushroom wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:Both will let a few go, I can't see what overhaul at Scarlets is required, unless you are talking about the entire coaching team! They've produced some good props in recent years, Dan Thomas will likely come back. I'd certainly sign a NWQ at hooker if I were them though, and perhaps another lock (a South African).

Both teams also have a number of WQ players, a lot from their academy. Dai is a good coach given that he has actually improved that Cardiff team. I imagine he still wants to make some additions up front though.

Cardiff really need to sort out their front 5.  Lineout and scrum has been a problem for them all season so far.  In my opinion he needs at least a quality tight head prop who can scrummage, possibly 2 hookers because I don't think his current crop are up to it.  I actually also think he needs a quality loosehead to challenge Carre a bit as well.  For the money those cost though I imagine he has to let a fair number of players go to afford those type of replacements.

Scarlets produce descent loosehead props and hookers.  Tighthead is a problem throughout wales at the moment.  They really have issues there and probably need to add a quality option here.  2 of their senior ones are constantly injured and you question if they provide any value to the club at all at this stage.  I think he's also short at least another 2 locks.  T. Price is rubbish and Fifita is probably a better blindside option that a actual lock. They need a quality openside option and a long term replacement for Kalamafoni at 8.  

Best signing we made at TH was Kruger, he was immense value for money!! I think Dan Thomas will probably sign permanently.

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Post by mikey_dragon Fri 28 Oct 2022, 1:02 pm

I think we are lacking TH's. Considering Scarlets have Lee and John, they're nowhere to be seen most of the time. Leon Brown also injured for us a lot in recent times. Cardiff have a big TH (Will Davies-King), be interesting to see if he makes the step-up.

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Post by Oakdene Fri 28 Oct 2022, 1:44 pm

I'm hoping we get rid fo WGJ this season & possibly chase your man down at Saracens who I can't remember the name of.

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Post by RiscaGame Fri 28 Oct 2022, 1:45 pm

Wainwright?

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Post by Oakdene Fri 28 Oct 2022, 2:00 pm

Thats the one! Might be a bit early to say he will be good but lets be honest he won't do any worse than WGJ.

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URC Round 6 - Page 2 Empty Re: URC Round 6

Post by mikey_dragon Fri 28 Oct 2022, 2:07 pm

Well he's in the Wales squad so it might be worth bringing him back here. If WGJ could actually get a run of games I'm sure he would come good.

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URC Round 6 - Page 2 Empty Re: URC Round 6

Post by Oakdene Fri 28 Oct 2022, 2:10 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:Well he's in the Wales squad so it might be worth bringing him back here. If WGJ could actually get a run of games I'm sure he would come good.

He had a few when he first started but he really struggled, however it may be down to the scrum law changes as Rob Evans started to struggle at scrum time around the same time....

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URC Round 6 - Page 2 Empty Re: URC Round 6

Post by mikey_dragon Sun 30 Oct 2022, 10:47 am

Another great win for Dragons. The past 2 games are a massive improvement on last season.

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URC Round 6 - Page 2 Empty Re: URC Round 6

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