Silly Season Transfer Rumours 22/23

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And.....off you go.

I wonder if its Logos time to move on Sam.

Theres rumours that a big name up here...and we all think it was Logo was offered a contract of £40k a year...insanity.

I hope its not to replace the outgoing Trev (rumours of Exeter and GLoucester)

Young Brantingham is here aswell...and covers both sides...

Mulipola is about to hit 36. Cheap squad player or let him move on for pension top up in France I'd have thought. A good stable of props makes life much easier when trying to build up an attack.

Joe Hawkins to Exeter?

You could hardly blame him for moving on from Wales atm and he likely won't be the last.

Haven't heard that one - terrible news for Ospreys if true.  Exactly the type of player who shouldn't be moved on.

One of the big draw backs to the salaries discussion in wales is that any structure will result in up and coming talent probably being picked off where I would have preferred them to move on players that are on their way down.   It sets the wrong message for rugby in wales.

Welshmushroom wrote:Haven't heard that one - terrible news for Ospreys if true.  Exactly the type of player who shouldn't be moved on.

One of the big draw backs to the salaries discussion in wales is that any structure will result in up and coming talent probably being picked off where I would have preferred them to move on players that are on their way down.   It sets the wrong message for rugby in wales.

Smith, Francis & (possibly) Lake all rumoured to be off to Exeter too.

Adams to France from Cardiff.

Oakdene wrote:Adams to France from Cardiff.

He's under contract though. Unless Cardiff are accepting a transfer fee.

I heard the Smith rumour but yikes, that’s Ospreys entire front-row. They won’t recover from that any time soon.

Welshmushroom wrote:

Oakdene wrote:Adams to France from Cardiff.

He's under contract though.  Unless Cardiff are accepting a transfer fee.

I think Cardiff can afford to lose Liam Williams, but not Adams. If they lose both then I’m not aware of anyone up and coming to replace them.

Welshmushroom wrote:

Oakdene wrote:Adams to France from Cardiff.

He's under contract though.  Unless Cardiff are accepting a transfer fee.

I guess Adams could always request a release.

Not likely - I believe the WRU won't allow Cardiff to release either of them regardless. So I'm pretty sure they are not going anywhere.

Granted they may be unhappy and losing them at their next contract renewal may be a certainty.

BigGee wrote:Joe Hawkins to Exeter?

You could hardly blame him for moving on from Wales atm and he likely won't be the last.

On the Rugby POD they said this was a done deal. Goode tends to get these right.

I can't help this won't help him internationally. Exeter will no doubt play him for as many games as they can which leaves him in a situation he could end up playing 30+ games a season with international commitments.

I also think the standard of the Premiership isn't as good as the URC. Especially next season when you look at the amount of stars that are leaving that league for France. I always think part of development is playing against the best. English rugby used to have some of the best overseas talent in that league but with their salary cap changes as well for next year they simply don't have that quality.

I understand why Welsh Players make good targets for the English clubs because without stemming the flow of talent out of the league the quality of offer will drop which doesn't help English rugby in the long term.

Honestly gutted about Hawkins going.... think I would have preferred any other player in Wales to go....

On the plus side I rate Baxter in terms of player development so in some ways if he has gone it's good he went there.

As others have said, Wales needs strong regions, otherwise we're basically just development teams. Who grows up wanting to play for that? WRU are close to killing rugby off for good.

I'd rather they stay put, but Exeter would be a great move Hawkins. I expect he'll be playing more at fly-half there. I'm still holding out hope for him becoming a good 13!

Javan Sebastian from Scarlets to Edinburgh confirmed. Think we all knew this a while ago, but it's confirmation.

mikey_dragon wrote:Javan Sebastian from Scarlets to Edinburgh confirmed. Think we all knew this a while ago, but it's confirmation.

Yeah as you say it's been known for a while now but good luck to him.

Welshmushroom wrote:

BigGee wrote:Joe Hawkins to Exeter?

You could hardly blame him for moving on from Wales atm and he likely won't be the last.

On the Rugby POD they said this was a done deal.  Goode tends to get these right.

I can't help this won't help him internationally.  Exeter will no doubt play him for as many games as they can which leaves him in a situation he could end up playing 30+ games a season with international commitments.

I also think the standard of the Premiership isn't as good as the URC.  Especially next season when you look at the amount of stars that are leaving that league for France.  I always think part of development is playing against the best.  English rugby used to have some of the best overseas talent in that league but with their salary cap changes as well for next year they simply don't have that quality.

Leinster are in a class of their own otherwise I think the rest is largely comparable. Chiefs are losing quite a few to France but the rest of the clubs are managing to keep most of the ones they want to. It's unlikely we'll see many big names incoming (though Bath have acquired Fin Russell) but most of the clubs have got well functioning academies with younger guys filling out squads.

Probably get one Prem club in the semi finals of the European Champions Cup. Have to see how the injuries fall.

doctor_grey wrote:Brumbies have completely changed their Rugby philosophy from more of a running team to something which I think any Leicester fan (or most people really) would be happy with.  Solid fundamentals, plays a lot off the 9, balanced and field position approach.  I would take him at Saints....

Reports are he's joining Tigers.

Telegraph confirmed McKellar to Tigers.
You've definitely got a good 'un there.

Hope so. Feels like he he's a good fit. Just need the right assistant coaches in around him now.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Welshmushroom wrote:

BigGee wrote:Joe Hawkins to Exeter?

You could hardly blame him for moving on from Wales atm and he likely won't be the last.

On the Rugby POD they said this was a done deal.  Goode tends to get these right.

I can't help this won't help him internationally.  Exeter will no doubt play him for as many games as they can which leaves him in a situation he could end up playing 30+ games a season with international commitments.

I also think the standard of the Premiership isn't as good as the URC.  Especially next season when you look at the amount of stars that are leaving that league for France.  I always think part of development is playing against the best.  English rugby used to have some of the best overseas talent in that league but with their salary cap changes as well for next year they simply don't have that quality.

Leinster are in a class of their own otherwise I think the rest is largely comparable. Chiefs are losing quite a few to France but the rest of the clubs are managing to keep most of the ones they want to. It's unlikely we'll see many big names incoming (though Bath have acquired Fin Russell) but most of the clubs have got well functioning academies with younger guys filling out squads.

Probably get one Prem club in the semi finals of the European Champions Cup. Have to see how the injuries fall.

Not sure that will be the case. Several England internationals aside from the Exeter players mentioned are potentially looking at moves there. Also part of youth development will only really occur based on the level of quality in the league. If you lose to many top end players the standard drops. While they can still look good in that league the real issue becomes when they step up against teams at higher levels.

Now I'm not saying this has happened in England yet but its something that is a very real threat to the credibility of the league in the long term.

I also think the URC and Premiership are not comparable. There are a couple of good sides in the Premiership but under them a lot of them are well behind what I have seen from Scottish and South African franchises this year.

If Premiership rugby does reduce teams and moves to a shorter season of matches I think they can probably counter the player drain to France but can they really get the buy in to get to 10 clubs? I'm not sure they will get the benefactors of the clubs behind this change.

Falcons have signed Scottish Kiran McDonald for the next 2 years - a lock - 6'8 and 18+ stone.

BigGee wrote:Joe Hawkins to Exeter?

You could hardly blame him for moving on from Wales atm and he likely won't be the last.

Looks like this hasn't been confirmed by sources. Ospreys have come out and said they want to keep him.

In terms of the 30 players out of contract with them I would say Jac Morgan, Dewi Lake and Hawkins must be at the top of players to retain. They are critical to Ospreys long term plans.

Even if its survival for the next few years it would make more sense for them to let some of the seasoned campaigners go. I'd be surprised if AWJ, Lydiate, Myler and Bradley are there next season.

They have a big roster of 60 odd players and if regions are going to 33-36 player squads there's going to be a big exodus from there.

60 players in the Ospreys squad! Is that standard for the regions?

Someone correct me if I am wrong but most English Prem sides pre-covid were operating with squads in the mid-40s, and then that's been trimmed significantly since COVID and recent cap reduction, probably to the same level you are suggesting Welshmushroom.

propdavid_london wrote:60 players in the Ospreys squad! Is that standard for the regions?  

Someone correct me if I am wrong but most English Prem sides pre-covid were operating with squads in the mid-40s, and then that's been trimmed significantly since COVID and recent cap reduction, probably to the same level you are suggesting Welshmushroom.  

12 of those are transition academy players recently promoted to seniors. So if you exclude these your looking at 48.

Scarlets have 48 currently, Dragons 44, Cardiff 44.

With the reduction of URC games those numbers are excessive. There's a lot of guys in those lineups who never see any consistent league action.

So I think reducing to 33-36 player squads probably lines up with what they actually need. Therefore no matter how it ends up going of the 70 players out of contract more than half of those must end up going if their target roster numbers will be reached.

Ah, ok makes more sense if that includes academy, cheers Welshmushroom.
I think you are right about the large number of players - and that's at a time where they will be slightly behind the curve of the combined 60-70 odd players from Wasps and Worcester that have been looking for contracts.
Tough time for the industry...

That number is only some of their academy players. The ones that have been promoted to the senior squad.

It is tough times for sure. That is what makes me worry a little about the strike talks today. Bottom line is that a majority of players that will be released will have little to no options.

France after all only have 14 overseas players per club and lets be fair they already have rosters of full of superstar imports so it's not likely that most French clubs will be able to get more than 3 or 4 players in the off season. England have the same problem with a lot of out of work pro's.

I'm hoping the reduction will allow regions to properly develop young players as very few get game time in the URC so I don't think these changes will be all bad.

The rhetoric is certainly short term pain for long term gain. But that's not particularly beneficial for those players staring down the barrel of a contract not getting renewed!
There seems to be a lot of movement towards the Pro-D2 and the lower French divisions that as still spending money and seem to have their business models right - so hopefully that will offer options for some.

Welshmushroom wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Welshmushroom wrote:

BigGee wrote:Joe Hawkins to Exeter?

You could hardly blame him for moving on from Wales atm and he likely won't be the last.

On the Rugby POD they said this was a done deal.  Goode tends to get these right.

I can't help this won't help him internationally.  Exeter will no doubt play him for as many games as they can which leaves him in a situation he could end up playing 30+ games a season with international commitments.

I also think the standard of the Premiership isn't as good as the URC.  Especially next season when you look at the amount of stars that are leaving that league for France.  I always think part of development is playing against the best.  English rugby used to have some of the best overseas talent in that league but with their salary cap changes as well for next year they simply don't have that quality.

Leinster are in a class of their own otherwise I think the rest is largely comparable. Chiefs are losing quite a few to France but the rest of the clubs are managing to keep most of the ones they want to. It's unlikely we'll see many big names incoming (though Bath have acquired Fin Russell) but most of the clubs have got well functioning academies with younger guys filling out squads.

Probably get one Prem club in the semi finals of the European Champions Cup. Have to see how the injuries fall.

Not sure that will be the case.  Several England internationals aside from the Exeter players mentioned are potentially looking at moves there.  .

Outside of Chiefs there's two England internationals allegedly looking at a move to France is apparently Manu and he can't get into the team currently anyway. Nor is he likely to post world cup. The Jack Willis potentially wanting to stay over there but that seems more like he wants the French salary and the England match fees, he's likely to come back.

Marchant is off to play in Paris, not the first time he's pursued playing abroad and Ribbans who has ongoing back issues so in all reality needs to maximise his earnings whilst he can.

It's been a while since we saw this sort of exodus but we have ready made replacements for all bar Cowan-Dickie (who's a real blow to English rugby). Even at club level Coles or Moon get more game time with Ribbans gone, Ma'asi White gets a route to the first team at Sale with Manu gone. Beard and Northmore step in for Quins to replace Marchant.

T Willis and Mercer are both coming back which is a big boost and when J Willis does that will more than make up from losing Simmonds from Chiefs. Really it's only Chiefs that are in a mess.

Baxter confirmed today they are not after Hawkins after all.

Clearly another Agent based rumor to boost a players salary. I don't have an issue with Agents using genuine offers to boost players income but this seems like trading in poor faith when it become clear agents are flat out lying. It also shows there is a potential problem with Agents in the Sport not being up to a professional standard.

Given the players have made a big deal about being in the loop I think this sort of thing also needs looking at because it has to go 2 ways.

I guess the only way this will change is if Clubs want to verify offers with official contract copies being provided to them.

propdavid_london wrote:60 players in the Ospreys squad! Is that standard for the regions?  

Someone correct me if I am wrong but most English Prem sides pre-covid were operating with squads in the mid-40s, and then that's been trimmed significantly since COVID and recent cap reduction, probably to the same level you are suggesting Welshmushroom.  

Exeter have 75 players registered on their website who in theory are available for the 1st team although a lot are dual registered and play also for Pirates,Plymouth and Taunton it includes several potential Welsh Internationals.

Welshmushroom wrote:Baxter confirmed today they are not after Hawkins after all.  

Clearly another Agent based rumor to boost a players salary. I don't have an issue with Agents using genuine offers to boost players income but this seems like trading in poor faith when it become clear agents are flat out lying.  It also shows there is a potential problem with Agents in the Sport not being up to a professional standard.  

Given the players have made a big deal about being in the loop I think this sort of thing also needs looking at because it has to go 2 ways.

I guess the only way this will change is if Clubs want to verify offers with official contract copies being provided to them.  

Agree - it should be illegal for agents to place stories indicating interest when that agent cannot prove that it exists.

Baxter said there was no offer and no contact between club and player at this point in time. He did say they'd watched him and were aware of his talents though.

Maybe but the rumor that did the rounds is he had potentially signed for Exeter. It's a big leap to say you watched a player to offering him a contract. I go to see the Dragons a lot. I'm not however offering any of them any employment. It's a big leap.

Given Welsh rugby is talking about reform, they should also look at this wild west agent system. Personally I would have thought Agents should be qualified negotiators with commercial & sponsorship backgrounds. All to often you are seeing Ex Players without any of those criteria. At the end of the day Agents should be professionals coming from academic backgrounds with some experience in marketing and negotiations in the Private sector.

Welshmushroom wrote:Maybe but the rumor that did the rounds is he had potentially signed for Exeter.  It's a big leap to say you watched a player to offering him a contract.  I go to see the Dragons a lot.  I'm not however offering any of them any employment.  It's a big leap.

Given Welsh rugby is talking about reform, they should also look at this wild west agent system.  Personally I would have thought Agents should be qualified negotiators with commercial & sponsorship backgrounds.  All to often you are seeing Ex Players without any of those criteria.  At the end of the day Agents should be professionals coming from academic backgrounds with some experience in marketing and negotiations in the Private sector.  

You need to get over it. It happens a lot.

Either a journalist looking for a story has seen/been told there was a Chiefs scout in the crowd and then put 2 and 2 together to make 5 or the agent knew Chiefs had, had a look and tipped off a journo. Happens all the time and has done for a long time.

Manu's brother (and agent) famously does this everytime it's contract negotiation time.

But it highlights the unprofessional state of the sport as a whole. Are players truly represented well without proper skilled agents?

Sports like the NFL, Football etc generally have proper dedicated and vetted agents and sports agency companies.

I genuinely believe this is exactly the type of unprofessional setup that is holding back the sport. If Rugby is serious about becoming a main stream sport these sort of issues will need to be addressed.

Welshmushroom wrote:But it highlights the unprofessional state of the sport as a whole.  Are players truly represented well without proper skilled agents?

Sports like the NFL, Football etc generally have proper dedicated and vetted agents and sports agency companies.  

I genuinely believe this is exactly the type of unprofessional setup that is holding back the sport.  If Rugby is serious about becoming a main stream sport these sort of issues will need to be addressed.

Yeah cause in no other sports are there rumours of transfers that turn out to be baseless...

Lee Blackett being talked about as head coach of Edinburgh

Jarrod Evans being strongly linked to to a move to Quins from Cardiff.

Oakdene wrote:Jarrod Evans being strongly linked to to a move to Quins from Cardiff.

Would make a lot of sense. Tommy Allan is off at the end of the season so Quins will have space for another flyhalf and Cardiff are cutting wage offers.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Oakdene wrote:Jarrod Evans being strongly linked to to a move to Quins from Cardiff.

Would make a lot of sense. Tommy Allan is off at the end of the season so Quins will have space for another flyhalf and Cardiff are cutting wage offers.

That would be a great move for Jarrod. The so called region of Cardiff and the Valleys have failed to get the best out of him (as expected) so a move to the Quins and the Premiership will be great for him and his Wales career.

Cardiff seem to be setting up for a real clear out!

BigGee wrote:Cardiff seem to be setting up for a real clear out!

They cleared out every other club in Wales of their best players during the 1990s. Looks like the Pieman can't bail them out this time.

Jarrod is a very good player. I feel this is okay for Cardiff as they have a less flaky like-for-like in Ben Thomas - a shame in a way too as I know there’s no way the Dragons are going to nab him now .

Cardiff could do with a good clearout, people have been saying that for years. I hope this doesn’t mean our replacement for Rowlands is permanently signing Screech, massive step down.

Scarlets have Kalamafoni and Thomson off their books and as much as everyone would have loved if they kept Sione they can probably cope with the loss here.

Ospreys in trouble if they lose a host of their forwards - assuming all of them want to stay as they seem content. Dragons need more signings as per, I’m not sure if that’s possible. I haven’t been too impressed with most from the academy, no massive guys coming through here at the moment. Hoping we get a certain LH, hooker and TH off our books (actually wouldn’t mind keeping Dee as a third choice).

Steve Diamond for the Edinburgh coaching job?

BigGee wrote:Steve Diamond for the Edinburgh coaching job?

Well Cockers worked well there for a short period so Diamond might be similar. He's got at developing a them and us feeling in the squad and bringing on young players.

Facundo Cordero leaves Chiefs for Glasgow effective immediate until the end of the season.

Lots of outlets running with the Ealing/Ospreys merger....

Oakdene wrote:Lots of outlets running with the Ealing/Ospreys merger....

Seen that but I can see a major flaw.
World rugby rules say you are governed by the union in which you geographical reside.
So if they play out of London it's the RFU.
Dosent matter what they are called or where half there players live, they will be a RFU team.

Can't see the RFU saying it's ok for ealing flappy birds to play in the URC.
Can't see the WRU being happy that the RFU will have a say in there players.

More importantly can't see the RFU allowing it to happen due to what it might bring in a few seasons.
Let's say, for example Saracens and Bath decide they don't like the salary cap anymore, well they can say " we want to follow ealing to the URC, try and stop us"

Maybe it will happen and it's what will bring some unified league together.
But as one of the main "journalist" pedaling it is the same one who claimed two Welsh regions were all set to join the PRL before Christmas I have serious doubts

carpet baboon wrote:

Oakdene wrote:Lots of outlets running with the Ealing/Ospreys merger....

Seen that but I can see a major flaw.
World rugby rules say you are governed by the union in which you geographical reside.
So if they play out of London it's the RFU.
Dosent matter what they are called or where half there players live, they will be a RFU team.

Can't see the RFU saying it's ok for ealing flappy birds to play in the URC.
Can't see the WRU being happy that the RFU will have a say in there players.

More importantly can't see the RFU allowing it to happen due to what it might bring in a few seasons.
Let's say, for example Saracens and Bath decide they don't like the salary cap anymore, well they can say  " we want to follow ealing to the URC, try and stop us"

Maybe it will happen and it's what will bring some unified league together.
But as one of the main "journalist" pedaling it is the same one who claimed two Welsh regions were all set to join the PRL before Christmas I have serious doubts

Now I don't think this merger should or will happen and I'd be shocked to see the URC let Ealing in. But it seems an unfair rule from world rugby, given the situation surrounding the barriers for promotion to the prem. There are also other examples that I can think of where this could potentially hinder club sides from other nations.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:

Oakdene wrote:Lots of outlets running with the Ealing/Ospreys merger....

Seen that but I can see a major flaw.
World rugby rules say you are governed by the union in which you geographical reside.
So if they play out of London it's the RFU.
Dosent matter what they are called or where half there players live, they will be a RFU team.

Can't see the RFU saying it's ok for ealing flappy birds to play in the URC.
Can't see the WRU being happy that the RFU will have a say in there players.

More importantly can't see the RFU allowing it to happen due to what it might bring in a few seasons.
Let's say, for example Saracens and Bath decide they don't like the salary cap anymore, well they can say  " we want to follow ealing to the URC, try and stop us"

Maybe it will happen and it's what will bring some unified league together.
But as one of the main "journalist" pedaling it is the same one who claimed two Welsh regions were all set to join the PRL before Christmas I have serious doubts

Now I don't think this merger should or will happen and I'd be shocked to see the URC let Ealing in. But it seems an unfair rule from world rugby, given the situation surrounding the barriers for promotion to the prem. There are also other examples that I can think of where this could potentially hinder club sides from other nations.

Ealing made no attempt to gain promotion, they didn't file the paperwork. Doncaster have and are looking at putting a big enough stadium in place, short term temporary stand then building a new one. Ealing though don't want to add more to their 2k seats. It's the only barrier stopping Ealing.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:

Oakdene wrote:Lots of outlets running with the Ealing/Ospreys merger....

Seen that but I can see a major flaw.
World rugby rules say you are governed by the union in which you geographical reside.
So if they play out of London it's the RFU.
Dosent matter what they are called or where half there players live, they will be a RFU team.

Can't see the RFU saying it's ok for ealing flappy birds to play in the URC.
Can't see the WRU being happy that the RFU will have a say in there players.

More importantly can't see the RFU allowing it to happen due to what it might bring in a few seasons.
Let's say, for example Saracens and Bath decide they don't like the salary cap anymore, well they can say  " we want to follow ealing to the URC, try and stop us"

Maybe it will happen and it's what will bring some unified league together.
But as one of the main "journalist" pedaling it is the same one who claimed two Welsh regions were all set to join the PRL before Christmas I have serious doubts

Now I don't think this merger should or will happen and I'd be shocked to see the URC let Ealing in. But it seems an unfair rule from world rugby, given the situation surrounding the barriers for promotion to the prem. There are also other examples that I can think of where this could potentially hinder club sides from other nations.

Ealing made no attempt to gain promotion, they didn't file the paperwork. Doncaster have and are looking at putting a big enough stadium in place, short term temporary stand then building a new one. Ealing though don't want to add more to their 2k seats. It's the only barrier stopping Ealing.

Why would they file the paperwork for promotion when they know they don't meet the criteria?  They clearly want promotion when you look at the squad they've assembled.It's nonsensical to riddle the club with debt to achieve this 10k capacity number.

I have sympathy for their situation but they probably haven't helped their case with the crowds they get.