2022 FIFA World Cup

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"We've lost a game, I don't think we should be speaking about referees," Southgate said. "I can just compliment France and wish them good luck. They're a fantastic team."

This isn't good enough. By all means compliment the French, but this is the 8th major tournament since 1970 where incompetent officiating (at best) has played a key part in England's exit. It needs to be called out rather than just accepting it, as is the English custom. Other countries pressure officials, England do not. This is the result.

Somewhat unsurprisingly Upmanecano does not retain his place for France

This one's already over.

Morocco have done ok since the goal. Can't help but feel they're gonna get picked off though

Brave performance by Morocco but probably beyond them now.

Looks a pretty close final to me, France have looked far from assured in their last 2 games.

F*cking cheating French playing all three Griezmann triplets without anyone noticing.

Pretty comfortable for France, they barely got out of second gear. If Morocco had equalised I think they would have stepped it up. Morocco's run to the semis was a very strange one.

Think France will cruise the final, Argentina really aren't much and they don't have the defence to resist the likes of Mbappe. Griezmann is having a storming tournament and will run the game again.

Morocco gave it a good go but I never really felt France were in much danger : always thought they had another goal in them.
Credit to the African history makers though - didn't just defend (guess they couldn't after that early goal ) - the overhead shot would have been a highlight topper if it had gone in !

Won't be shocked if they get the dubious honour of third place - though that will probably go to Croatia after a penalty shootout

Adding to Duty's jinx : I fancy France for the final.

I think France will out-think Argentina as much as outplay them. Also, Croatia passed their way through them with ease at times, and the difference is that France have the attacking talent to top that off.

So with just the final to go, how do people think this World Cup will be remembered?

Probably the best two teams in the final, and the narrative will either be the crowning glory of Messi's career (and anointing by many as the GOAT, as it is will no longer be possible to criticise his relative lack of success at international level), or seen as 'The King is dead, long live the King' with Mbappe taking over the mantle of the world's leading player (even if he's not even been the best player in the France team).

Plenty of upsets, which is always good for the tournament as it goes on, but possibly makes the winners look weaker if they only had to beat Morocco in the semi final (for example).

Quality of play, and the quality of games has been very mixed - some excellent free-flowing games but also some very negative 0-0 games particularly in the group stages. Not convinced there has been any particular revolution or evolution of the style of play or even a dominant system across the teams.

Overall, currently 163 goals scores with 2 games left - quite comparable with the last 2 tournaments (169 and 171 goals) and France 98 (also 171 goals) and substantially more than 2006 and 2010.

I don't think France have been one of the best two teams since their first game.

I don't think they had gears to go through at all against Morocco and were a decent striker for Morocco away from losing. They were also fortunate with a poor ref v England.

Theo Hernandez has been ripped apart by Saka, and then Ziyech and Hakimi. And he faces Messi in the next game. I wouldn't be surprised to see Mbappe moved centrally and someone like Thuram starting on the left to help him out. France are capable of much more in that the last two games, but for me its Argentina who are the better side and my pick to win.

I think it's been a tournament without exceptional teams which has made it very open and given underdogs a fair chance at progress. Don't think there's been a team on the level of 2010 Spain or 2014 Germany in the field

GSC wrote:I think it's been a tournament without exceptional teams which has made it very open and given underdogs a fair chance at progress. Don't think there's been a team on the level of 2010 Spain or 2014 Germany in the field

I think that's a reasonable comment - while I said France and Argentina have probably been the best two teams and deserved finalists (at least based on their performances through the knock-out games), I didn't say either were particularly great (I'd add France 98 to the list of great recentish winners). Several formerly great players, including Messi, clearly getting towards the end of their careers and most of the young guns not yet quite there to replace them as yet. Certainly, both the finalists have flaws in their teams, but then so did everyone else.

Also kinda think for all the upsets its lacked for real signature games. England France felt like a heavyweight type game but maybe came too early and not sure anything else has quite got there. Argentina Netherlands perhaps. Argentina Brazil in a semi final would've qualified but Croatia need not apologize for knocking Brazil out.

GSC wrote:Also kinda think for all the upsets its lacked for real signature games. England France felt like a heavyweight type game but maybe came too early and not sure anything else has quite got there. Argentina Netherlands perhaps. Argentina Brazil in a semi final would've qualified but Croatia need not apologize for knocking Brazil out.

Had Netherlands kept pressing in extra time and won the game, then yes it would be the classic of the tournament, but didn't quite pan out that way. Similarly, if Kane scored the second penalty or Rashford's free kick had been a smidge lower, the France v England game would have been it. I think the lack of a competitive semi final played a part - Croatia really failed to land a meaningful punch on Argentina, and Morocco just lacked a little quality for all their effort against France (I enjoyed the game though).

Overall, been a reasonable World Cup, but not a classic one for me. Needs an epic final to make it memorable..

There's been no atmosphere at some of the games, and plenty of empty seats too. On top of that, it just hasn't felt right having a World Cup at this time of year.

FIFA formally reconsidering the 16 x 3 group idea. The only good solution is a 32-team World Cup.

In extra stupidity, FIFA are also going for a proper Club World Cup with 32 teams and to held in 2025, presumably in the summer. The gulf between the top European clubs and the rest of the world is gargantuan, so I can't see much competitive interest in wanting to watch Bayern Munich v Auckland City. And it increases player fatigue, burnout etc. meaning the quality overall dips. It's just too much football.

Until the big European clubs still treat it as a winter break

Croatia finish 3rd after beating Morocco 2-1. Do try to remember it as they're popular pub quiz questions.

Just clocked the final is on at 3 tomorrow, even though the semi-finals were on at the later time.

Gareth is staying apparently

Duty281 wrote:Croatia finish 3rd after beating Morocco 2-1. Do try to remember it as they're popular pub quiz questions.

Just clocked the final is on at 3 tomorrow, even though the semi-finals were on at the later time.

Very inconvenient for those of us living in this time zone ! Rather liked the 6 am kick off : 2.00 am : Not so much...

Looking forward to todays final. For me the best outcome.
Hopefully lives up to the hype.
Would like to see Argentina win. Some would say be great for Messi to lift the trophy, couldn’t care about him personally. For me, be great to see Martinez lift the trophy.

westisbest wrote:Looking forward to todays final. For me the best outcome.
Hopefully lives up to the hype.
Would like to see Argentina win. Some would say be great for Messi to lift the trophy, couldn’t care about him personally. For me, be great to see Martinez lift the trophy.

Same for me. Him trying, albeit unsuccessfully, to get Ronaldo to take the penalty for United is my highlight of last season.

Galted wrote:

westisbest wrote:Looking forward to todays final. For me the best outcome.
Hopefully lives up to the hype.
Would like to see Argentina win. Some would say be great for Messi to lift the trophy, couldn’t care about him personally. For me, be great to see Martinez lift the trophy.

Same for me.  Him trying, albeit unsuccessfully, to get Ronaldo to take the penalty for United is my highlight of last season.

Argentina for me too.
Regardless of all the football 'politics' and personalities... they have the same colours as my local rugby team and I'd be happier with that.
Actually... the same as Racing Club of Paris too but I'm still going for the Argies.

Anyone but Argentina. Allez Les Bleus.

GSC wrote:Gareth is staying apparently

Confirmed on the BBC. I suspect that the expected rush of Premier League teams knocking on his door didn't materialise.

I'm OK with Southgate staying as long as the French game hasn't caused him to tactically regress to what we saw in the Euros final.

And I hope he drops Maguire, but that's probably too much to ask. Saw Sky Sports had Maguire in their team of the tournament.

Happy to see Southgate staying. For all his tactical failings (real and imagined) he is certainly a very good man manager - and that has helped move England up from (in recent years) perennial tournament flops to nearly teams. Need another step up ; but signs here were mostly good ; and I think continuity makes sense at this stage.

Hopefully he continues the apparent progress towards a more attacking style

alfie wrote:Happy to see Southgate staying. For all his tactical failings (real and imagined) he is certainly a very good man manager - and that has helped move England up from (in recent years) perennial tournament flops to nearly teams.  Need another step up ; but signs here were mostly good ; and I think continuity makes sense at this stage.

Hopefully he continues the apparent progress towards a more attacking style

I'm not happy or annoyed about it.  I don't think he's a particularly shrewd manager when things aren't going England's way (or when leading against a top team) but on the other hand he does have an ability to consistently get results against teams outside of the top bracket.  He's also a good PR exercise which in England is necessary to keep the tabloids at bay.  Would like it if he played Grealish more (with an actual role - ie people making runs off him rather than standing around watching him for the two minutes he's on).

Soft penalty but Argentina have their reward for dominating the opening 20.

Never a penalty. France well off the pace due to the illness they had, or maybe it's just a typical slow start?

2-0, brilliant counter. France are gonna have to find something special, they've been outplayed

Great play from Argentina. Emi closer to the trophy

2-0 doesnt really flatter Argentina, they've dominated the midfield and Kounde/Hernandez have been taken apart.

Deschamps has gone early but not sure on removing Giroud given the worst Argentina have been is when the Netherlands went direct

Feel sorry for France. That illness has clearly sabotaged their chances, for most of the first half they were playing in slow-motion. They simply have no energy or life, at least not until the final few minutes of the half when Argentina eased up a little. The penalty call was complete nonsense.

The French left back really is terrible.

Bit shocked by this. Guess Argentina have been building through the tournament and not surprised they've been good...but for France to be so listless...

Hope they can grab a goal from somewhere to get back into the game ; but not sure I can see it happening.

Shame to see vast numbers of empty seats for a world cup final.

A lifeline from very little but France are back in

Another soft pen. Martinez nearly saved it.
Game on now.

Christ. Didn’t see this 5 mins ago.

Wow.

Argentina and leading games

What the f**k?

Incredible. France dead and buried then score with their first two attacks. Martinez probably should've done better with both.

France now wide open if Argentina can shake themselves

Argentina are such a low IQ football team. Failed to hold on to leads v Saudi and the Dutch...so decide to sit back on 2-0 and let the French back into it? Stupidity.

Mbappe tearing it up like a man possessed. Coman causing all sorts of problems. France dominating the 50-50s now.

Referee still giving Argentina all the help he can. Two promising French counters stopped due to the referee not playing advantage.

What a comeback , eh ?

Do wonder if France have missed their big chance though. For a few late minutes there I thought they were certain to score the winner as Argentina were at sixes and sevens...but now it's gone to another thirty minutes I wonder if fatigue is going to get them ?

Can't complain we haven't got a fitting final contest !

Two world-class blocks from Umpamecano. France starting to lose their grip again.

Lots of "nearly" moments ...

Hope this isn't going to bloody penalties.

Ah. There it is...

More "messy" than Messi ; but that'll do for Argentina.

Surely France can't find another lifeline ?

Yes they can