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Scotland's 6N Build Up, Then Inevitable Fall: Dark Horses of the Year 10 years running

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Post by NeilyBroon Wed 04 Jan 2023, 3:39 pm

First topic message reminder :

It's the hope that kills ya!

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Post by tigertattie Sun 12 Mar 2023, 9:55 pm

23 tackles from Dempsey but also 9 runs making 40m.

He has to start again next week. Finally some competition at 8 which may be why Matt F has actually had a decent championship
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Post by BigGee Sun 12 Mar 2023, 10:04 pm

Dempsey had a good game, outplayed MF in truth.

Backrow balance still not quite right, though. Msybe Darge comes in next week.

Sounds like we got a few injuries. Hogg, Russell, Gray and Blairhorn all looked to be struggling

With a 6 day turnaround, we might finally see the tombola come into play. We probably do need to test our depth now.


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Post by tigertattie Sun 12 Mar 2023, 10:09 pm

It’s in essence a dead rubber. I know we’re playing for 3rd place and it’s the 6 nations but one eye on the World Cup.

Darge may be a shout but I still don’t want him rushed. Crosbie could get a nod. With the injuries I see no harm in Healy starting and skinner getting a full run out. You don’t want wholesale changes as you want momentum going into the World Cup, and you want to win the game as it is a 6 nations match, but given the injuries, tinkering will required and also beneficial
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Post by RDW Sun 12 Mar 2023, 10:26 pm

It is absolutely essentially we don't lose to Italy (our last meaningful game before the WC) so we definitely can't go full Tombola. I'd freshen things up a bit though, not least because it's a 6 day tunraround.

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Post by BigGee Sun 12 Mar 2023, 10:43 pm

I imagine a lot of the changes going to be forced by injury.

Having said that, the front row subs were poor this week and a strong case for Sutherland, Ashman and Nelly to come back in.

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Post by Intotouch Sun 12 Mar 2023, 10:53 pm

EST wrote:Did anyone else hear the comments from Andy Dunne on the Irish Off The Ball program yesterday?  That he thinks Ireland are going to put Scotland 'back in their box' and that we are constantly talking about how good we are?

These lines seem to be trotted out every year by the Irish media, but I genuinely can't recall a member of the Scotland team ever saying anything of the sort, and certainly not this year - it's all been quite friendly, acknowledging how good this Irish team have become.  The fake grievance shtick is really boring, and comes across as really arrogant - which isn't the impression I get of the Irish team itself.

RTE figured out about thirty years ago that a way to make the analysis part of a sports program really entertaining is to add one person with extreme/ bizarre views to two even handed experts and then watch the arguments develop . Sometimes this goes way too far (Jo Brolly, Eamonn Dunphy) and certain pundits have been banned but the model remains. Matt Williams knows he’s keeping himself in a job by expressing dodgy opinions. Please don’t criticise them too much. It really is highly entertaining (three people agreeing with each other is not fun) and you don’t have to listen to what the one controversial pundit says. Listen instead to the “senior analysts” (to use classic rte parlance) who argue with them. I’d honestly hate them to dump this model. The analysis of the soccer in particular is regularly far more entertaining than the match.

I’m surprised by the Andy Dunne comment, he also said a lot of complimentary things about Scotland and is usually even in his analysis but I guess that doesn’t grab any headlines.

Anyway it was a great match today, mostly seriously competitive and great to watch. I just hope you left Ireland enough rugby players fit to play England next week!

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Post by George Carlin Tue 14 Mar 2023, 4:56 am

I genuinely expect us to hammer Italy and we will want that momentum going into the final pre-games before the RWC.

That will be 3 wins. A successful 6N? Not sure now, actually. We have shown we are a threat and competitive with any team for long periods of the game - we just lack tightness in key areas.

A bit like Jim. Allegedly.
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Post by TJ Tue 14 Mar 2023, 6:01 am

George Carlin wrote:I genuinely expect us to hammer Italy and we will want that momentum going into the final pre-games before the RWC.

That will be 3 wins. A successful 6N? Not sure now, actually. We have shown we are a threat and competitive with any team for long periods of the game - we just lack tightness in key areas.

A bit like Jim. Allegedly.

Three wins is a par score! 4 would ave been a good return, 5 fantastic

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Post by BigGee Tue 14 Mar 2023, 8:32 am

We lost to ireland and France

Numbers 1 and 2 in the world and we were competitive sgainst both of them, even if not quite able to go toe to toe for a full 80 mins yet.

We have improved, but quite to their level yet, but the curve is definitely upwards.

We do need to beat Italy though, which is not straightforward these days. Let them concentrate on the job in hand and the anslysis can come afterwards

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Post by Unclear Tue 14 Mar 2023, 11:15 am

As an outsider it appears that the thread title says it all ..... Hug

Any good on lottery numbers Neily?

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Post by NeilyBroon Tue 14 Mar 2023, 1:00 pm

Unclear wrote:As an outsider it appears that the thread title says it all ..... Hug

Any good on lottery numbers Neily?

Just a world weary Scotland fan, I'm afraid!

Agree with sentiments above. We need to go for Italy and aim to win well. I don't think we'll batter them, they're a changed side but we should be looking for a few tries. Cappuozo is a big loss for them and it definitely showed on Saturday. Expect them to play better than they did versus Wales and they will be looking for a deserved win. We need to be ruthless.

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Post by bsando Tue 14 Mar 2023, 5:43 pm

https://twitter.com/DannyCipriani87/status/1635236111181307908?s=20

Nice analysis (from Cipriani of all people) on the first of the two squandered 1st half try opportunities. A shame Hogg and VDM couldn't make it work after all the good work by Russell, Tuipulotu and Jones. But that also leaves room for improvement which excites me because they were not far off getting that one right against a top defensive side.

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Post by BigGee Tue 14 Mar 2023, 5:59 pm

Suggestions that FR has a torn MCL and Hoggy a broken foot

If that is so. Neither going to be playing much more rugby (if any), this season, but they should hopefully be good for the WC

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Post by bsando Tue 14 Mar 2023, 6:24 pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001k2y4/six-nations-rugby-2023-scotland-v-ireland

45:29 - Porter not offside?

55:13 - Hogg offside?

Can anyone explain these two to me? It was a game of small margins at the breakdown but I thought some of the calls were really tight.

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Post by TJ Tue 14 Mar 2023, 6:30 pm

Both marginal. Hogg less so. He was not behind the back feet. Porter just about was


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Post by bsando Tue 14 Mar 2023, 8:00 pm

Yeah Hogg shows he's gone backward but not very convincingly. I thought Porter stretched his leg long to show that he was back further than he actually was. Given play was moving fast ref perhaps wasn't able to see any obvious offside so a good one from Porter, he really disrupted that ruck and created a lot of pressure leading to a knock on by VDM. Probably got a pat on the back from Farrell in the Monday review.

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Post by Highland Shaun Tue 14 Mar 2023, 10:53 pm

Going to change the subject ever so slightly because I watched highlights of Gallagher Premiership earlier and noticed Robbie Smith had a good game for Saints on Saturday so just wondering if anyone knows anything about him because I presume he's too old looking to be in the 20s squad so would he be worth a look in the warm up games or his he better waiting until next summer or autumn? Oh and what position is he?

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Post by BigGee Tue 14 Mar 2023, 11:21 pm

Highland Shaun wrote:Going to change the subject ever so slightly because I watched highlights of Gallagher Premiership earlier and noticed Robbie Smith had a good game for Saints on Saturday so just wondering if anyone knows anything about him because I presume he's too old looking to be in the 20s squad so would he be worth a look in the warm up games or his he better waiting until next summer or autumn? Oh and what position is he?


Hooker

Got a bit of work to do to establish himself at Saints first, does not get to much game time with them, but good to see him having a good game last weekend. He is a fair way down the pecking order currently but that may change as some of our older hookers move on.

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Post by Hazel Sapling Wed 15 Mar 2023, 5:23 pm

Robbie Smith is 24 (soon to be 25) and looking at his height (5'9) and weight (113kg), has the dimensions to be an international hooker in the traditional short and squat mould. He is starting to establish himself for the Saints after being stuck at Newcastle behind Blamire and McGuigan and before that Glasgow with Brown and Turner.

Looking at the stats and ignoring the Premiership Cup, he has started five proper games (including three starts in a row recently) and was sub in nine (total of 468 minutes). His playing time is going in the right direction. Minimum of 52 minutes in each of Northampton's last five games (last four were wins) after failing to get more than 40 minutes in proper games before that.

If he keeps it up, he is a potential bolter for next Six Nations when Cherry, Brown and McInally are likely to finish or we will be looking to move on at the international level. Ashman and Turner will be fighting it out but after that, the cupboard looks a bit bare.

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Post by BigGee Wed 15 Mar 2023, 5:29 pm

Hazel Sapling wrote:Robbie Smith is 24 (soon to be 25) and looking at his height (5'9) and weight (113kg), has the dimensions to be an international hooker in the traditional short and squat mould. He is starting to establish himself for the Saints after being stuck at Newcastle behind Blamire and McGuigan and before that Glasgow with Brown and Turner.

Looking at the stats and ignoring the Premiership Cup, he has started five proper games (including three starts in a row recently) and was sub in nine (total of 468 minutes). His playing time is going in the right direction. Minimum of 52 minutes in each of Northampton's last five games (last four were wins) after failing to get more than 40 minutes in proper games before that.

If he keeps it up, he is a potential bolter for next Six Nations when Cherry, Brown and McInally are likely to finish or we will be looking to move on at the international level. Ashman and Turner will be fighting it out but after that, the cupboard looks a bit bare.

I'd say Paddy Harrison at Edinburgh has a pretty high bar of potential

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Post by Highland Shaun Wed 15 Mar 2023, 6:10 pm

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-union/the-uncapped-waratah-mulling-a-225k-a-year-offer-from-scotland-20230315-p5cs9s.html

chin chin chin chin chin chin

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Post by bsando Wed 15 Mar 2023, 7:15 pm

I read that article too Shaun, was surprised to see Valentini was eligible for Scotland!

Dempsey is proving to be very good for Glasgow and Scotland so nothing lost there.

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Post by BigGee Wed 15 Mar 2023, 8:13 pm

If Sione's brother is half as good as him, get him on the next plane!

In an interview a while back, he said that his brother was very much his own man and would make his own decision, but he did imply that he was certainly giving it some serious thought

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Post by tigertattie Wed 15 Mar 2023, 8:19 pm

Just the other week he was saying he’s holding out for a wallabies call up and wasn’t entertaining Scotland.

Money talks I suppose. Which in truth is rather sad for the game
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Post by BigGee Wed 15 Mar 2023, 9:22 pm

I would not pay to much attention to newspaper headlines, so much depends on who ihe s speaking to and what they want to hear.

Like most dual qualified players, he will likely make the best decesion for himself and his career.

All about the money - well yes it is a professional game and all these guys are taking a battering week in week out. Money will be part of his decesion I am sure, but also it will be about where he thinks he can maximise his career.

Having seen his brother do so well over here may be a temptation, but alternatively, he may want to succeed away from his path.

It's complicated, so I guess we'll see.

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Post by RDW Thu 16 Mar 2023, 9:39 am

I hope that's nonsense, especially the money part. He hasn't even played a SR game!

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Post by Hazel Sapling Thu 16 Mar 2023, 9:46 am

Whilst £125k is nothing to be sniffed at, in terms of attracting a talented player over here, it is not a vast sum. If he decides to come over, great. Sam Johnson and H Jones hit 30 this year, and Glasgow regularly lose at least two centres to Scotland.

It does feel like our youngsters are not getting the opportunities they need though. Duncan Munn is captaining the u20's and may not get much of a look in if the deal goes through. Paddy Kelly and Robbie McCallum were small for the centres but neither got much of a shot. Fingers crossed Munn gets his opportunities regardless

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Post by BigGee Thu 16 Mar 2023, 9:54 am

Munn gas not really looked the part in this years U20 comp, ghe centre thst has csught the eye is Kerr Yule. Still only 18 and built like a tank

He is the son of Stuart Yule, Scotland S&C coach. Which maybe might explain it!

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Post by RDW Thu 16 Mar 2023, 9:57 am

Also, I had no idea Bobby Valentini was SQ. Gutted he didn't move when offered - he's now one of the best 8s in the world!

As for Tuipolotu jnr - £125k is way too much money for basically an unproven semi pro rugby player.

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Post by BigGee Thu 16 Mar 2023, 10:04 am

RDW wrote:I hope that's nonsense, especially the money part. He hasn't even played a SR game!


I doubt it is, he is clearly very highly rated. He is not getting much game time as he has 2 international players ahead of him at the Tahs.

It is good money, not silly money and likely worth a punt.

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Post by tigertattie Thu 16 Mar 2023, 11:14 am

BigGee wrote:Munn gas not really looked the part in this years U20 comp, ghe centre thst has csught the eye is Kerr Yule. Still only 18 and built like a tank

He is the son of Stuart Yule, Scotland S&C coach. Which maybe might explain it!

Completely agree. I don’t like throwing shade at the u20s as they are young, still learning and appear to. Be badly let down with the system. Munn though just look’s underpowered compared to everyone he comes up against.
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Post by Mcsweens Fri 17 Mar 2023, 12:17 pm

If he's coming over in an attempt to help make our rugby culture more antipodean - ie stronger winning mentality, more resilient, more risk tolerant, generally more optimistic, then great, he's worth the money.

If he's here papering over the cracks of the u20s dismal showing, then that's not great.

From his perspective, I'd be on the first plane over.

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Post by Hazel Sapling Fri 17 Mar 2023, 2:18 pm

It is tough only having two clubs and the academy guys need to swim quick if they don't sink a level down (Wynne, Nicol, R Smith, Mak Wilson, R McCallum are some examples off the top of my head).

Shame us and Italy can't add two teams each (22 league matches a year) but that has long been the refrain

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