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Premiership Round 15

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Heaf
formerly known as Sam
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doctor_grey
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Post by doctor_grey Fri 06 Jan 2023, 11:50 am

I really like having games on Friday afternoon (my time). I work most of the day then have a chance to get home, relax, and put on the Rugby with a pint and let the week disappear. Great door-opener for the weekend.

Round 15

Fri 6 Jan Gloucester v Saracens (7.45pm, live on BT Sport)
Sat 7 Jan Newcastle v Leicester (2pm, live on BT Sport)
Sat 7 Jan Exeter v Northampton (4.30pm, live on BT Sport)
Sun 8 Jan Harlequins v Sale (3pm, live on BT Sport)
Sun 8 Jan London Irish v Bristol (3pm)

Big test for Saints going down to Devon. Chiefs are struggling a bit and a great time for Saints to visit.

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Post by Geordie Fri 06 Jan 2023, 12:18 pm

Newcastle Falcons team v Leicester Tigers (Saturday, 2pm, Kingston Park Stadium, live on BT Sport).

15 Tom Penny (captain),
14 Adam Radwan,
13 Matias Moroni,
12 Matias Orlando,
11 Mateo Carreras,
10 Brett Connon,
9 Sam Stuart;

1 Adam Brocklebank,
2 Jamie Blamire,
3 Trevor Davison,
4 Greg Peterson,
5 Sebastian de Chaves,
6 Gary Graham,
7 Callum Chick,
8 Carl Fearns.

Replacements: 16 Charlie Maddison, 17 Logovi'i Mulipola, 18 Richard Palframan, 19 Matthew Dalton, 20 Tom Marshall, 21 Michael Young, 22 Tian Schoeman, 23 Elliott Obatoyinbo.

Not available for selection: Sam Clark, Connor Collett, Matt Deehan, Freddie Lockwood, Pete Lucock, Cameron Nordli-Kelemeti, Guy Pepper, Josh Peters, Sean Robinson, Oliver Spencer, George Wacokecoke, Will Welch.

Referee: Tom Foley.

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Post by Geordie Fri 06 Jan 2023, 12:19 pm

Tigers -

15 Freddie Steward [64]
14 Harry Potter [53]
13 Matt Scott [54]
12 Dan Kelly [48]
11 Harry Simmons [26]
10 Charlie Atkinson [7]
9 Ben Youngs (vc) [291]

1 James Cronin [8]
2 Charlie Clare [65]
3 Dan Cole (vc) [302]
4 Harry Wells [168]
5 Calum Green [100]
6 Ollie Chessum [40]
7 Tommy Reffell [88]
8 Hanro Liebenberg (c) [72]

REPLACEMENTS
16 Joe Taufete'e [3]
17 Nephi Leatigaga [76]
18 Joe Heyes [111]
19 Cameron Henderson [24]
20 Emeka Ilione [6] *
21 Sean Jansen [12]
22 Jack van Poortvliet [57]
23 Jimmy Gopperth [6]

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Post by doctor_grey Fri 06 Jan 2023, 3:03 pm

Saints v Exeter, Saturday, 7 January 2023 16:30
Where: Sandy Park
Referee: Adam Leal
Assistant referees: Charlie Gayther and John Meredith
No.4: Harry Walbaum
TMO: Stuart Terheege

 Northampton Saints Exeter ChiefsGrey's Advantage
15Tommy Freeman15Josh HodgeFreeman
14James Ramm14Jack NowellNowell
13Matt Proctor13Henry SladeSlade
12Fraser Dingwall12Solomone KataDinger
11Courtnall Skosan11Olly WoodburnEven
10George Furbank10Joe SimmondsHmmmm
9Alex Mitchell9Sam MaunderMitchell
    
1Alex Waller1Scott SioSio
2Mike Haywood2Luke Cowan-Dickie (c)LCD
3Paul Hill3Harry Williamseven
4Alex Coles4Dafydd JenkinsColes
5Alex Moon5Jack Dunnedunno
6Lukhan Salakaia-Loto6Dave Ewerseven
7Angus Scott-Young7Chris Tshiunzaeven
8Lewis Ludlam (c)8Sam Simmondseven
    
 Replacements:  
16Robbie Smith16Jack YeandleYeandle
17Emmanuel Iyogun17James KennyManny
18Alfie Petch18Josh Iosefa-Scotteven
19Karl Wilkins19Ruben Van Heerdenvan Heerden
20Sam Graham20Greg Fisilaudunno
21Callum Braley21Jack Maundereven
22Rory Hutchinson22Harvey SkinnerHutch
23Tom Collins23Rory O'LoughlinTommy

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Post by formerly known as Sam Fri 06 Jan 2023, 6:41 pm

Tigers appear to be rather short on backs at the minute, though it's odd Cokanasiga isn't getting a look in. Ilione in line for his Prem debut which is good to see as is Henderson back on the bench. Some good impact there even if we're hoping there's no injuries in the backline.

Falcons XV looks strong so it could be a tough game.

Doc, on current form I'd say Ramm edges Nowell but I'd take Rory over Tom in the 23 shirt. I'm looking forward to the Kata Vs Dingwall face off, a real chalk and cheese approach to playing 12. Great chance to demonstrate some improved defence against a hard running opponent for Dingwall, if he doesn't then Kata will run over him.

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Post by doctor_grey Fri 06 Jan 2023, 7:26 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:Tigers appear to be rather short on backs at the minute, though it's odd Cokanasiga isn't getting a look in. Ilione in line for his Prem debut which is good to see as is Henderson back on the bench. Some good impact there even if we're hoping there's no injuries in the backline.

Falcons XV looks strong so it could be a tough game.

Doc, on current form I'd say Ramm edges Nowell but I'd take Rory over Tom in the 23 shirt. I'm looking forward to the Kata Vs Dingwall face off, a real chalk and cheese approach to playing 12. Great chance to demonstrate some improved defence against a hard running opponent for Dingwall, if he doesn't then Kata will run over him.
I'm actually looking forward to the Ludlum-Simmonds matchup. Completely agree about Dingwall. This is a great opportunity for him to show what he is made of. Hoping you are right abut Ramm v. Nowell.

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Post by Heaf Fri 06 Jan 2023, 7:47 pm

Let's see what carnage Dickson and Hodnett combined can cause tonight ...

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Post by formerly known as Sam Fri 06 Jan 2023, 8:20 pm

doctor_grey wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:Tigers appear to be rather short on backs at the minute, though it's odd Cokanasiga isn't getting a look in. Ilione in line for his Prem debut which is good to see as is Henderson back on the bench. Some good impact there even if we're hoping there's no injuries in the backline.

Falcons XV looks strong so it could be a tough game.

Doc, on current form I'd say Ramm edges Nowell but I'd take Rory over Tom in the 23 shirt. I'm looking forward to the Kata Vs Dingwall face off, a real chalk and cheese approach to playing 12. Great chance to demonstrate some improved defence against a hard running opponent for Dingwall, if he doesn't then Kata will run over him.
I'm actually looking forward to the Ludlum-Simmonds matchup.  Completely agree about Dingwall.  This is a great opportunity for him to show what he is made of.  Hoping you are right abut Ramm v. Nowell.

Yeah good point in Ludlum Vs Simmonds. That should be an interesting head to head. Both sides will need their 8s to do well at the breakdown and still carry dynamically. I'm sure Borthwick will have an eye on that.

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Post by Geordie Fri 06 Jan 2023, 8:22 pm

Good game down at kingsholm.

Great ti see Thorley back. Having a good game.

McGuigan having a rusty start...some good some not so.

Think Hazard will be getting replaced by Isiekwe at half time...looks quite lost out there today

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Post by formerly known as Sam Fri 06 Jan 2023, 8:30 pm

Good to hear Dickson asking after the playing having the head injury checked. Hope Carley is taking note

Val Rapava Ruskin looking in good form again, hopefully he's not badly hurt. Borthwick will have liked what he's seen from him, good work rate, solid set piece and good over the ball. Not seen his carrying yet but that could seal the deal. Imagine having VRR and Cole for the first half and then rolling on Genge and Sinckler against a fatigued opposition for the second.

Glaws inaccuracies costing them badly here.

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Post by Heaf Fri 06 Jan 2023, 9:14 pm

Both teams suffering from a lack of accuracy tonight ... Glaws getting more of the rub of the green though.

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Post by Heaf Fri 06 Jan 2023, 9:15 pm

Clear pen missed by all the officials when a player in front of May who fumbled it picked it up ...

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Post by Heaf Fri 06 Jan 2023, 9:19 pm

Farrell couldn't hit a cow's ar*s with a banjo tonight

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Post by Heaf Fri 06 Jan 2023, 9:25 pm

Isn't accidental off-side normally a scrum not a pen?

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Post by Geordie Fri 06 Jan 2023, 9:28 pm

Hhmm Farrell escapes a red but maybe hasn't escaped a rib injury

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Post by formerly known as Sam Fri 06 Jan 2023, 9:30 pm

Geordie wrote:Hhmm Farrell escapes a red but maybe hasn't escaped a rib injury

There's Claire, thought she was being oddly competent. It's a shoulder to the face, she should have insisted that Dickson saw that. Would have had a big impact on the game.

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Post by Heaf Fri 06 Jan 2023, 9:33 pm

He said he couldn't look at it as it wasn't the same phase - new directive maybe?

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Post by Geordie Fri 06 Jan 2023, 9:34 pm

Farrell shouldn't be on the pitch then scores rhe winner...ouch...

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Post by Duty281 Fri 06 Jan 2023, 9:34 pm

Very enjoyable game, but I don't think I've ever seen such a level of substandard officiating. How Dickson is allowed to referee at any level is a mystery.

Why wasn't Farrell carded? He shouldn't have been on the pitch to score the winning drop goal. Why can they no longer go back multiple phases?

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Post by Heaf Fri 06 Jan 2023, 9:35 pm

How ironic is that - after kicking cr*p all night he drops a goal to win it ...

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Post by Heaf Fri 06 Jan 2023, 9:38 pm

Duty281 wrote:Very enjoyable game, but I don't think I've ever seen such a level of substandard officiating. How Dickson is allowed to referee at any level is a mystery.

Why wasn't Farrell carded? He shouldn't have been on the pitch to score the winning drop goal. Why can they no longer go back multiple phases?

Have you not seen Dickson before? This wasn't anywhere near his worst effort ...

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Post by doctor_grey Fri 06 Jan 2023, 9:40 pm

Gee, Gloucester simply gave that match away on a silver platter. Really un-smart. The had the draw in hand right near the end, then kicked possession away multiple times and lost territory each time until Saracens had a lineout near Gloucester's 22 And the drop to win the match followed just the same a dudes follow girls.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Fri 06 Jan 2023, 9:40 pm

Heaf wrote:How ironic is that - after kicking cr*p all night he drops a goal to win it ...

It was a beauty of a drip goal to be fair to him. Real bit of class.

Shouldn't have been on the pitch. Officials have dropped a clanger there. Not really sure how Hodnett keeps getting games, I presume Dickson does because he's a former player despite Leal, Smalles and Cox all looking better prospects.

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Post by Heaf Fri 06 Jan 2023, 9:48 pm

Putting Hodnett being useless aside for the moment I'm wondering if one of the new directives that came in for this year limits the check to the current phase only - seems odd if that includes foul play, but that's the only way I can understand what happened - apart from the obvious that it was Dickson and Hodnett combined (see my post at the start of the match) ...

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Post by Duty281 Fri 06 Jan 2023, 9:55 pm

I can't see anything in the new directives about this. That references the current TMO guidelines released last May (linked below), which does put a phase limit on tries being referred (two), but foul play is 'All Clear and Obvious acts of Foul Play may be referred up until the game restarts'.

https://resources.world.rugby/worldrugby/document/2022/06/17/d96beea2-759d-4856-b8db-f4aa13d5cc75/2022-TMO-protocol-Approved-by-Council-May-2022-v2.pdf

So, unless there's something different, Dickson has dropped a massive clanger. Hopefully the death knell of his rugby refereeing career in the Premiership.

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Post by Heaf Fri 06 Jan 2023, 10:12 pm

Just reviewed it and yes he cocked up - the game hadn't restarted when she referred it.

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Post by Heaf Fri 06 Jan 2023, 10:29 pm

But she should also have known that ... so both at fault - again

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Post by Heaf Fri 06 Jan 2023, 10:30 pm

Heaf wrote:Let's see what carnage Dickson and Hodnett combined can cause tonight ...
It was so predictable ....

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Post by doctor_grey Sat 07 Jan 2023, 12:15 am

I only saw the match in bits and pieces. About what time did the Farrell incident happen? I didn't see it and I can't see the Twitter video here.

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Post by Heaf Sat 07 Jan 2023, 12:24 am

It happens at the ruck at 74:22 but play goes on for a long time and they don't show the replay until 76:18

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Post by doctor_grey Sat 07 Jan 2023, 9:09 am

Heaf wrote:It happens at the ruck at 74:22 but play goes on for a long time and they don't show the replay until 76:18
Thanks mate.
Bloody hell - that's a straight red.  Shoulder charge to the head.  How did I miss that when watching yesterday???

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat 07 Jan 2023, 10:10 am

Uses his arms so not a shoulder charge.

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Post by doctor_grey Sat 07 Jan 2023, 11:12 am

Can't agree, mate.  But you made me check again.  Seems a clear no arms shoulder to the chops.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat 07 Jan 2023, 11:13 am

You do see both arms wrap. https://twitter.com/btsportrugby/status/1611475671079092224?t=fVBXqgf97gGinHV0f4izwQ&s=19

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Post by Heaf Sat 07 Jan 2023, 11:16 am

doctor_grey wrote:
Heaf wrote:It happens at the ruck at 74:22 but play goes on for a long time and they don't show the replay until 76:18
Thanks mate.  
Bloody hell - that's a straight red.  Shoulder charge to the head.  How did I miss that when watching yesterday???

In the live play it was a distant overhead shot - it was only the reply where you could really see it.

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Post by doctor_grey Sat 07 Jan 2023, 11:18 am

Arms come up after the shoulder contact.  And that, not far up.  So, for me, a clear shoulder to the chin.  Farrell has some time off in his near future. Yes, much clearer on the replay.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat 07 Jan 2023, 11:47 am

doctor_grey wrote:Arms come up after the shoulder contact.  And that, not far up.  So, for me, a clear shoulder to the chin.  Farrell has some time off in his near future.  Yes, much clearer on the replay.  

Well that's just not how the laws are applied. That's classed as a tackle with arms.

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Post by doctor_grey Sat 07 Jan 2023, 12:47 pm

We will find out. But I think you have this one wrong.

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Post by Heaf Sat 07 Jan 2023, 12:55 pm

Arms or not a shoulder to the chin is going to be a red ...

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat 07 Jan 2023, 1:14 pm

Lawes is going to be in a lot of trouble going forward then as he has the same technique. Depends if there's mitigation Heaf. And if there's enough here. Think it's pretty close bad yellow softish red.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sat 07 Jan 2023, 2:02 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:Arms come up after the shoulder contact.  And that, not far up.  So, for me, a clear shoulder to the chin.  Farrell has some time off in his near future.  Yes, much clearer on the replay.  

Well that's just not how the laws are applied. That's classed as a tackle with arms.

The right arm only wraps after the shoulder is no longer in contact and both players are standing. There's also significant force and direct contact to the head so you're always starting at red and then looking to mitigate down. The Glaws player doesn't change his height, he starts low and stays low. Farrell has adequate time to change his height before contact and a good line of sight. I think you're looking at a 80/90% chance of red.

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Post by Geordie Sat 07 Jan 2023, 2:13 pm

Kick fest at Kp ...

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Post by Heaf Sat 07 Jan 2023, 2:14 pm

Last scrum looked like a pen to Falcons to me ...

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Post by Heaf Sat 07 Jan 2023, 2:17 pm

Well worked try

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat 07 Jan 2023, 2:19 pm

Lucky to get away with no question asked of a pen try.

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Post by Geordie Sat 07 Jan 2023, 2:20 pm

How the f...is that not a penalty try!!!

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Post by Heaf Sat 07 Jan 2023, 2:21 pm

Hmmm - should have had a proper look at that - I'm not sure anyone is catching him

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Post by Heaf Sat 07 Jan 2023, 2:23 pm

Tigers living dangerously here - could end up with another yellow

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Post by Geordie Sat 07 Jan 2023, 2:24 pm

We're battering them...but we need points. Story of our season...need to make the most of possession and territory....

But We're seeing improvements...steadily.

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Post by Heaf Sat 07 Jan 2023, 2:25 pm

Should really be 14 nil up now

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