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Boxing in 2023

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Post by 88Chris05 Tue 24 Jan 2023, 8:44 pm

I know boxing has served up very little in the way of quality matchups at the highest level lately, but along with Davis-Garcia in the Spring we do appear to be on the verge of another exciting announcement as Stephen Fulton will reportedly be travelling to Japan to defend his Super-Bantamweight titles against Noaya Inoue.

I mentioned last year that this was one fight I'd love to see Inoue taking. If you believe the figures being bandied about, Fulton will earn around $3 million for this defence, which might explain why he's travelling despite being the defending champion - but good on him! Fair play to Inoue as well for going straight for the (probable on balance) top man at 122 as he looks to conquer yet another weight class having sewn up all the belts at Bantam.

As a career 122-pounder Fulton is probably the biggest guy Inoue will have fought, but he also brings a superb engine to the table along with a good array of shots and the ability to string them together proficiently. He's good on the inside, can work the high-low and shorten the punches and, although he's not a big hitter, he doesn't waste much as he's aggressive with what he does throw.

That said, he gets hit a hell of a lot and isn't that effective at range, which is going to be a huge problem for him here assuming Inoue's power and timing isn't suddenly blunted at Super-Bantam. Fulton was buzzed once or twice against Figueroa and showed he's tough and can take / regroup from a big shot, but taking shots from Figueroa and taking them from Inoue are two very different things.

Still, if they can get this over the line it will be a proper fight between two high-performing and peak world champions to look forward to.
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Post by Herman Jaeger Sat 28 Jan 2023, 12:24 pm

British trainer of the decade for Tunde if the London Nigerian can pull this one off

Boxing is unpredictable as we saw last week but it would defy the laws of physics surely if this one makes it to the cards

Non boxing related but Rip Tyre Nichols may those vile yellow bellies never walk free on God’s green earth again, ever

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Post by 88Chris05 Sat 28 Jan 2023, 1:48 pm

I think Yarde's hope is that he can get Beterbiev early tonight. But I just see another typical Beterbiev performance and win - basically a torturous, prolonged mugging. I don't think Yarde will fold as early as Smith, and you never know, Father Time might come a'knocking for Beterbiev, but I don't think it'll be tonight. Just think he's a class above Yarde.

We've got some decent domestic showdowns between Yarde, Buatsi and Smith which could come to fruition in the next couple of years, and they should collide at some stage. Be nice if there were any world titles on the line, but not an easy division to pick up a belt in at the moment.
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Post by Inventing Johnson Klute Sat 28 Jan 2023, 11:00 pm

Anyone watching Beterbiev v Yarde. 3 rounds in and Betwebievs power is just starting to show, but at this stage of his career, its clear Beterbiev can't throw when backpeddling anymore. Yards just needs to stay on the front foot.

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Post by Inventing Johnson Klute Sat 28 Jan 2023, 11:10 pm

Great fight so far, you could argue Beterbiev has won every round thorugh 6, but at the same time it's a close fight...

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Post by Inventing Johnson Klute Sat 28 Jan 2023, 11:13 pm

Has someone never taught Yarde how to grab and hold...

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Post by Inventing Johnson Klute Sat 28 Jan 2023, 11:19 pm

Great fight, Beterviev just a step in front for most of the fight, but Yarde was always on the verge of taking the fight away from him, right up until the stoppage. Buatsi must fancy Beterbiev on that performance coz he looks like he can't fight going backwards anymore coz he ain't quite got the legs at 38

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Post by 88Chris05 Sat 28 Jan 2023, 11:31 pm

Yarde did pretty well, he was always in it albeit losing most of the rounds for me. For the first time, maybe, just maybe, Beterbiev was starting to look his age. He fights at a measured pace anyway, but got the impression he was looking to fight in spurts more here and he did lose his shape once or twice in the middle rounds. But he's resilient and and very cool under pressure, which Yarde wasn't when it started getting put on him.
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Post by Guest Sun 29 Jan 2023, 11:02 am

The Chechen KO artist looks like age is catching up with him. Power is power but Bivol would take him to school.

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Post by 88Chris05 Sun 29 Jan 2023, 12:07 pm

Think I'd go with Bivol to win a decision, but I wouldn't necessarily rule Beterbiev out, Jeff. 2022 was Bivol's year but he's had the odd flat and uninspiring display before that. And while he dominated pretty much throughout, I am still mindful that on the one occasion that Smith did get to Bivol with a big shot, Bivol was clearly hurt and a bit fortunate that the bell went at that moment. If (I know, I know, ifs buts and maybes are irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, but indulge me!) Smith had another twenty seconds or so in the round to follow up, who knows how the landscape of the division might look now?

Anyway, Bivol's representatives have said that's the fight they want in 2023, more than a Canelo rematch, so touch wood we'll see it. Possibly the best defence in the sport against one of the best offenses with all the belts on the line.
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Post by Guest Sat 04 Feb 2023, 3:42 pm

Emanuel Navarette stopped Liam Wilson in the 9th round to win the vacant WBO super featherweight title. Navarette was dropped in the fourth round but fought back to become a three division champion.
The Cowboy must decide whether he will retain featherweight or super featherweight title.

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Post by 88Chris05 Wed 08 Feb 2023, 10:08 pm

I see Roy Jones, now 54 years young, is making a comeback to professionally sanctioned boxing. He filed for a (potentially strategic) bankruptcy in 2014, and given his failed attempts at being a music mogul you'd have to assume he's flat broke and has squandered the many millions he earned in his prime years...Albeit I also get the impression he simply knows nothing else and does love fighting for fighting's sake. Either way it's a sad state of affairs.

On a cheerier note, Benavidez-Plant is happening on March 25th. Styles wise Benavidez is made for Plant, who is the much more skilfull fighter of the pair....The problem is that Benavidez is a weight bully who could easily be 15 lb heavier than Plant come fight night, and of course Plant's lack of real power at the highest level.

Not a fan of Benavidez at all, so hope Plant can pull this one off. Not sure Benavidez would be so gobby if he was faced with the best Light-Heavies, hell maybe even Cruisers, which is where he'd be if the sport made even just a little bit of effort to stop in-ring weights being so ludicrously high compared to on-scales ones.
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Post by 88Chris05 Fri 10 Feb 2023, 12:35 pm

Rumours abound that Josh Taylor against Teofimo Lopez might be made for May / June, with the fight happening in the UK for Taylor's Light-Wetlerweight title.

Eighteen months ago this would have been a super fight between two undisputed (close enough in Teo's case, anyway) champions who were on top of the world. Now, while still a big and intriguing fight, it'd be a contest between two guys whose popularities have plummeted and who both need a big win / performance to regain some momentum they've lost.

If this happens then it's not a good look for Taylor in terms of assuaging the ever-growing number of fans who say he's doing whatever he can to swerve a Catterall rematch - especially as one of the reasons he's used to distance himself from the rematch was that he was supposedly moving up to 147. But if (you have to take any rumour such as this with a pinch of salt) this fight does happen he has plausible deniability on the basis of Lopez being a bigger fight globally and hardly a patsy himself.

Taylor was adamant that the latest postponement of the rematch was just that - a postponement rather than a cancellation - but he's always seemed a bit half-arsed and non-committal over it. Suspect Catterall is going to be left high and dry here. Get yourself in the ring ASAP Jack, you're losing precious time waiting for this Taylor return.
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Fri 10 Feb 2023, 3:23 pm

Perhaps Taylor fancies that his career is probably over if he loses to his fellow Brit....Again.....

Strange one...Taylor, I thought he was a complete fighter and a relatively ordinary Catterall outboxed him.....Reminded me of watching New Englander Vinny Pazienza dancing around everybody in Rhode Island and then coming unstuck against a relative plodder in Greg Haugen....

Maybe he is hoping Catterall loses while he waits.......Bit like Hoppo getting a shopworn Jones jr......But that won't deftract from the fact he dazzled your backside the first time..

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Post by 88Chris05 Wed 15 Feb 2023, 10:23 am

I guess time will tell if Catterall is relatively ordinary or not, Truss. He certainly looked it for the most part pre-Taylor, but he jumped up a level on the night and maybe he just needed a chance to shine.

On the other hand, maybe there are shades of Groves-Froch I at play, with the established champion and big favourite having an off night, lacking a bit of focus and having one eye on bigger prizes, combined with the underdog having the night of their life. Groves never looked anywhere near as good as that again, and who knows, maybe Catterall's performance against Taylor was a one off as well? We badly need to see him in a ring again soon either way. Froch put matters right against Groves within six months - it's been a year since the Catterall controversy and Taylor still doesn't seem all that intent on having a return.

I understand Catterall's burning desire for a rematch but waiting around for it is killing his career. And in terms of personality and style, unfortunately for him Catterall's face just doesn't quite fit with a lot of boxing fans, who are fickle and will soon put aside any sympathies they have for him if Taylor can make a fight with Lopez or a Prograis rematch. Ultimately they're just likely to me more entertaining and more lucrative scraps.

I think it'll be a massive shame and very rough justice on Catterall if he doesn't get a rematch, but he should really be thinking about a contingency plan here. If he can't get Taylor now, get a couple of other wins and maybe an alphabet title under his belt to raise his profile and make it harder for Taylor to look the other way, or for the fans to keep quiet about it. There are lots of good fights at Light-Welter at the moment.
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Post by 88Chris05 Sat 18 Feb 2023, 6:02 pm

No interest for Lara-Wood tonight? It's an excellent fight and a proper world title one, the kind we need to see more of.

If Wood fights like he did against Can I think he can win a decision. If he fights like he did against Conlan, he'll probably be stopped before the mid-way point. Wood is a better boxer than some give him credit for and stylistically Lara, as your archetypal Mexican, will give him plenty of chances. But Wood, even when boxing quite well, is a bit of a sucker for those looping shots over the top and leaves his chin way too high and exposed.

Early rounds will be crucial. If Wood can get through those I think he can use that high-low jab and counter uppercut which he's had success with, and which Lara will be wide open for - and he's one of the few Featherweights who can rival Lara in terms of work rate and maintaining it into the championship rounds.

Bookies don't seem to fancy Wood all that much, but I think it's a genuinely close and competitive fight as long as he approaches it correctly and doesn't get overly worked up because of the crowd and occasion, like he seemed to do a little against Conlan. He got away with it there, but won't here.
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Post by 88Chris05 Sat 18 Feb 2023, 8:08 pm

Minor upset on the (very poor) undercard as Gamal Yafai gets floored three times and amost stopped on a couple of occasions on his way to losing a decision to Diego Ruiz.

Absolutely horrendous performance from Yafai who looked a million miles off the European / fringe world level he once was hoped to be at.
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Post by 88Chris05 Sat 18 Feb 2023, 11:39 pm

Gutting end there for Wood. He boxed excellently for six rounds, the second aside....But it was a bit of a scrappy seventh and Lara always had that puncher's chance.

The knockdown was almost at the death of the round, and I can see some questioning Davison's decision to throw the towel. Who knows what might have happened if Wood had survived those last ten seconds or so and had the minute to recover. But Davison couldn't be sure of the time remaining, and judging by how dizzy Wood looked in the aftermath I can't be critical of him throwing it.

Very good fight - like I said, we need more British titlists willing to take these kind of risks. Very disappointed for Wood, but credit to Lara. He looked there for the taking after six rounds, but the boy can punch.
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Post by Guest Sun 19 Feb 2023, 10:46 am

Unfortunately I missed this one live and just finished watching it. This was a really top draw fight.
Wood made Lara look pretty average at times, and yes Wood was winning but he still weathered some heavy shots from the Mexican.
The KO shot was a beautiful shot, literally the perfect shot.

Granted Wood has a rematch option but I’d prefer Wood vs Warrington and Lara vs Lopez WBA/IBF unification. Then winners fight each other.

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Post by Soul Requiem Sun 19 Feb 2023, 12:20 pm

I thought the corner was a bit quick in throwing in the towel but that's just me. They must have had an idea there wasn't long left in the round. It was an ok fight, skill level wasn't all that great which led to the exchanges.

I always say there's a big difference between a Gatti/Wars type fight and a Castillo/Corrales. The skill difference is huge.

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Post by 88Chris05 Sun 19 Feb 2023, 3:04 pm

Yeah opinion seems to be relatively split on the stoppage, Soul. I do think that fights in the UK are very often stopped too early, but I don't have a strong opinion either way on this and can see both sides of the argument.

Matchroom could have a lot of fun with Lara, though. Has slipped into Linares' old role as the Latino destroyer of British hopes. Featherweight isn't a great division at the moment, to be honest (we'll see if Ramirez can start living up to his promise) so he'll probably be fighting one of Wood or Warrington on UK soil again before long - that's about as lucrative as it'll get for him in the foreseeable future. Honestly don't think Warrington could beat him in a month of Sundays given his style, and Wood just doesn't protect his chin enough. But always likely to be good fights as long as they last.
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Post by Herman Jaeger Mon 20 Feb 2023, 10:57 am

No controversy with the stoppage. There was too much time left. He wouldn’t have made it. You think he would have made it? He wouldn’t have made it. I saw it in real time. Lives to fight another day

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Post by Guest Mon 20 Feb 2023, 8:26 pm

Josh Taylor vs Jack Catterall rematch is off. WBO bizarrely ordered Taylor vs Teofimo Lopez whilst Taylor-Catterall 2 was delayed by injury to Taylor.
Catterall screwed over big time.

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Post by 88Chris05 Mon 20 Feb 2023, 10:20 pm

Seems that Michael Conlan will get a shot at Luis Alberto Lopez's IBF Featherweight title on May 27th. His first genuine test and return to the bigtime since that heart breaking loss to Wood last March.

Hard to gauge exactly where Conlan's at. He didn't impress me against Marriaga and seemed very cautious, which I guess you can forgive coming off a tough fight and gnarly stoppage like the one against Wood. Talented boxer no doubt, but the way Wood eventually rag dolled him and made him wilt late on makes me think he might be another one of these lauded amateurs who has all the tricks, but maybe not quite the brawn and nous to live up to expectations in the pros.

Lopez is a bit of a mixed bag style and certainly leaves his chin up in the air a lot. Not a big puncher, but very aggressive with the shots he does throw. Warrington tried rough housing him all night but he still landed the shots and showed enough quality to win a decision on the road. Interesting fight and big pressure on Conlan, of whom many are expecting big things in the pro ranks.
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Thu 23 Feb 2023, 1:00 pm

So the WBC have accepted Benn's explanation of 30 odd eggs a day.......Okay Rolling Eyes

So failed tests are okay now.....Well get stuck in guys and improve yourself 300% blame it on chickens if you are caught.. thumbsup

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Post by Guest Fri 24 Feb 2023, 10:23 am

Saul Alvarez will fight in Mexico on May 6. Opponent to be confirmed.

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Post by No name Bertie Fri 24 Feb 2023, 8:36 pm

Jeff Navarro wrote:Saul Alvarez will fight in Mexico on May 6. Opponent to be confirmed.
Promoters Vision of Boxing Today: "Cash cow will fight in XX on YY. Opponent to be confirmed."
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Post by No name Bertie Fri 24 Feb 2023, 8:41 pm

Some chatter that the Fury vs Usyk fight will be announced tomorrow at the Jake Paul vs Tommy Fury event.  Apparently the only reason why the fight hasn't already been agreed concerns the amount of money the Tyson Fury camp want.  Something odd as to why the fight wasn't agreed to be held in Saudi Arabia - apparently the Saudis couldn't stump up enough guaranteed cash for the Tyson camp satisfaction is the rumor, while an alternative suggestion from the Tyson camp was something to do with a venue having to be built from scratch and not being ready on time.  Meanwhile for the London venue apparently the Tyson camp want more than 50% of the split and Usyk's team say that is unacceptable to them.
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Post by 88Chris05 Sat 25 Feb 2023, 5:33 pm

That seems to be the issue according to most sources, Bertie. 50:50 agreed if it's Saudi, as it's plainly ludicrous money, whereas a Wembley show is more dependent on PPV and Fury, as the bigger name, wants 60%.

Normally I'd at least be understanding (if not outright supportive) of Fury thinking he's worth 60% of whatever a Wembley fight generates, as it's apparently a fair bit less than a potential Saudi purse. He is the bigger name, and Usyk had to take short money against Chisora and then beat Joshua and take his three belts just to get an equal split in the rematch.

That said, Fury took the mick with that voluntary against Chisora, and seeing as he was so eager in that case to "give his mate a payday" I don't think it's unreasonable to show the same leeway to someone like Usyk who, unlike Chisora, actually does deserve a couple of bumper paydays before he bows out.

If Usyk comes to Fury's back yard, giving away as much size as he is, then I think he deserves 50:50. Fury has earned mega bucks these past few years and for the sake of his reputation and the division I don't think it's asking too much for him to budge a little on this issue. Forgetting who has more belts and how they came to have them, I think those two wins over Joshua make Usyk worth parity here.

Of course, they are supposed to be prize fighters so it begs the question: why not guarantee both parties 40% in advance, with the final 20% going to the winner? But for whatever reason you basically never see such deals being agreed in boxing. I sadly suspect this one gets put off until later this year so that it can take place in Saudi.

Hopefully I'm proved wrong, because they're cutting it very fine for this supposed April 29th Wembley date....
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Post by Guest Sun 26 Feb 2023, 10:45 am

Gervonta Davis vs Ryan Garcia confirmed for April 23, in Las Vegas. Bout will take place at 136lbs catchweight.

Andy Ruiz Jr has left PBC, as such seems like he won’t fight Wilder next.

Also Eddie Hearn ‘pushing hard’ for Mauricio Lara-Josh Warrington 3, despite Leigh Wood wanting to have the rematch.

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Post by Guest Sun 26 Feb 2023, 11:21 pm

Tommy Fury beat Jake Paul by split decision to hopefully end the Paul clown show.
Fury was docked a point in round 6 for excessive holding. Paul also scored a flash knockdown in round 7.

Scorecards:

Paul: 75-74
Fury: 76-73 x2.

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Post by Duty281 Mon 27 Feb 2023, 12:01 am

Greatly ashamed to admit that I watched it. The knockdown made the scores look closer than it actually was in reality.

Brought back memories of Andrew Flintoff's one and only fight. Maybe he could be Paul's comeback opponent?

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 28 Feb 2023, 12:29 pm

Conor Benn threatening to sue the BBBC in a 3m suit because he has been cleared apparently......

1. He hasn't been cleared...He failed two tests by taking tons of eggs up the backside which is pretty farfetched and the WBC didn't clear him but chose to uphold Vada and accept his explanation so far that it's possible.....Just like it's possible a Man can run the 100 in 5 seconds...

2. This threatening is just a ploy to get the BBBC who generally struggle for money (Watson's 1m lawsuit nearly bankrupted them) to let him fight again....The BBBC have rightly put aside the WBC verdict and said show us proof.....Apparently the eggs with the compound in only come from the US which is a long way to go to get your eggs..

Conor and his case stinketh I opine my poor Yorick.....and thus the Cheater doth protest too much me thinks...

Go away Benny boy.

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Post by Derbymanc Wed 01 Mar 2023, 10:43 am

I hope he does take it to court i'd love to see him trying to explain it like that.

Had enough of it now to be honest, won't watch anything that he's involved in or any programme he's on now even if he's just a pundit.

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Post by 88Chris05 Wed 01 Mar 2023, 11:09 pm

Jeff Navarro wrote:Gervonta Davis vs Ryan Garcia confirmed for April 23, in Las Vegas. Bout will take place at 136lbs catchweight.

Certainly looking forward to this one. I posed the (admittedly optimistic and generous) question a couple of years back if the 'next generation' of stars in and around 130 - 140 lb (Davis, Garcia, Haney, Lopez and Stevenson) could end up defining the 2020s and producing a whole bunch of big and exciting fights against each other in the way Benitez, Duran, Hagler, Hearns and Leonard did in the 1980s. High time we finally got a showdown between two of this new crop, and hopefully this one lives up to expectations as it's long overdue.

Davis gives me Broner vibes and I think he's profited from some clever match making and weight bullying, but no doubt his power is legitimate. I'm yet to be convinced by Garcia - good talent no doubt, but I think people expecting him to be his generation's De La Hoya might end up being disappointed. Quick hands and he can crack a bit himself, but seems to fight a little tight at times and leaves himself very open, especially down his right side. Also a slow starter on occasion.

Might reassess closer to the fight, but right now I'll take Davis to stop him late.
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Post by Guest Thu 02 Mar 2023, 9:56 am

Jeff Navarro wrote:

Andy Ruiz Jr has left PBC, as such seems like he won’t fight Wilder

So an update on this, Ruiz is free to fight on any platform but remains part of PBC…

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Post by Derbymanc Mon 06 Mar 2023, 12:14 pm

Reports floating around saying Fury Vs Usyk is off

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Post by Guest Mon 06 Mar 2023, 1:19 pm

Naoya Inoue is moving up to junior featherweight and will face unified WBC/WBO champion Stephen Fulton.
May 7, in Japan.

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Post by Soul Requiem Mon 06 Mar 2023, 1:43 pm

Derbymanc wrote:Reports floating around saying Fury Vs Usyk is off

Fury isn't interested in fighting anyone that can challenge him, he's far happier fighting Wilder and Chisora for a third time. He has some credit for the Wilder fights but ultimately he was in a world of trouble twice against a guy who aside from having power in his right hand is utter garbage.

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Post by Oakdene Mon 06 Mar 2023, 2:40 pm

Derbymanc wrote:Reports floating around saying Fury Vs Usyk is off

Shame but not surprised.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Tue 07 Mar 2023, 5:26 am

Soul Requiem wrote:
Derbymanc wrote:Reports floating around saying Fury Vs Usyk is off

Fury isn't interested in fighting anyone that can challenge him, he's far happier fighting Wilder and Chisora for a third time. He has some credit for the Wilder fights but ultimately he was in a world of trouble twice against a guy who aside from having power in his right hand is utter garbage.

Does Usyk really challenge though? I honestly don't see him given Fury that much trouble tbh.

Tough on Wilder too SR....prior to fighting Fury he arguably the most feared HW around. I would still fancy Wilder to KO any other HW.....especially Joshua, who I think he would take apart in a few rounds.

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Post by Derbymanc Tue 07 Mar 2023, 9:42 am

Sgt_Pooly wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:
Derbymanc wrote:Reports floating around saying Fury Vs Usyk is off

Fury isn't interested in fighting anyone that can challenge him, he's far happier fighting Wilder and Chisora for a third time. He has some credit for the Wilder fights but ultimately he was in a world of trouble twice against a guy who aside from having power in his right hand is utter garbage.

Does Usyk really challenge though? I honestly don't see him given Fury that much trouble tbh.

Tough on Wilder too SR....prior to fighting Fury he arguably the most feared HW around. I would still fancy Wilder to KO any other HW.....especially Joshua, who I think he would take apart in a few rounds.

I don't think Wilder was feared by any of the top heavyweights - he had a very well managed career but deserves massive credit for the Fury fights.

If Fury wasn't worried about Usyk he'd have taken the fight no issues, very very disappointed as really did think he was the big thing in boxing but sadly has forgone chasing a legacy

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Post by Soul Requiem Tue 07 Mar 2023, 10:15 am

Sgt_Pooly wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:
Derbymanc wrote:Reports floating around saying Fury Vs Usyk is off

Fury isn't interested in fighting anyone that can challenge him, he's far happier fighting Wilder and Chisora for a third time. He has some credit for the Wilder fights but ultimately he was in a world of trouble twice against a guy who aside from having power in his right hand is utter garbage.

Does Usyk really challenge though? I honestly don't see him given Fury that much trouble tbh.

Tough on Wilder too SR....prior to fighting Fury he arguably the most feared HW around. I would still fancy Wilder to KO any other HW.....especially Joshua, who I think he would take apart in a few rounds.

Usyk can move so poses a legitimate threat to Fury, he's not a one trick pony like Wilder.

That's massively exaggerating Wilders reputation, he's almost been regarded as a puncher who beats up on C level opponents. AJ is technically much better, with his head right he'd win early.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Tue 07 Mar 2023, 10:32 am

Not seeing it SR...I can't see AJ ever fancying taking on Wilder and just never getting close to beating him if the unlikely happened.

For me, Wilder is obviously unconventional (to say the least), but he's one of the biggest hitters ever, his KO record speaks for itself.

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Post by Soul Requiem Tue 07 Mar 2023, 5:02 pm

His KO is a statistic and nothing more, he's got power but he has a reputation built on stopping sub par opponents, his best wins are over an ancient Luis Ortiz who was easily outboxing him both times.

AJ is many things but a ducker isn't one of them, he has easily the best record of any active heavyweight. Wilder has no chin and in a battle of power punchers the better technique almost always wins.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Wed 08 Mar 2023, 4:15 am

Happy to disagree on all of that SR.........I don't rate AJ as a top level HW particularly and I think his record is over-rated. I think Wilder would destroy him with few issues.

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Post by 88Chris05 Wed 08 Mar 2023, 11:36 am

I think the contrasting opinions of Soul and Sgt. on this are demonstrative of what a pick 'em fight Joshua-Wilder has become in the eyes of most fans now. There was a time when Joshua would have been a relatively big favourite. Now I'd say it's a proper 50:50 if it were to happen.

No doubting that Wilder is a messy fighter with big limitations, but in a Heavyweight division where most of the key operators are a bit more basic than their lighter counterparts, a thunderous punch (delivered with more hand speed than people sometimes credit him for) and a big heart to keep going in the face of severe punishment can take you quite a way....Especially if you're faced with someone in Joshua whose chin is less than uncrackable, who has ran out of gas a couple of times and who might be getting a little gun shy and overly concerned about taking shots these days.

On the other hand, Wilder's heart and will to go to war won't matter a jot if Joshua clocks him hard enough to keep him down for a count, which he certainly has the power to do, and while Joshua isn't the smoothest himself he could definitely rack up the rounds against Wilder and outbox him if the nature of the fight allows it.

Shame we'll almost certainly never see it, as they could both be other other's salvation given where they currently are in their careers. A win for either man would be huge redemption and really go a long way to confounding the criticisms which have been thrown at them recently, and you actually wouldn't mind either man getting another title shot off the back of it. They'd have certainly earned it.
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Post by kingraf Wed 08 Mar 2023, 12:45 pm

We probably won't see it, but I'd find it hard to make Wilder the favourite. Firstly, however you work it, AJ would be the A-side and the fight would likely be on his network and his desired location, so that alone makes it hard to see Wilder coming through.

But even just from an Xs and Os perspective, outside of the obvious cartoonish power that Wilder possesses which gives him a chance against anyone literally in the history of the division... AJ can just win in so many more ways. In a fire-fight, AJ has two hands and Wilder has one. AJ can Jab him off. He's never done it, but he could probably jab and grab to make use of the extra 30lbs he'd probably have come fight night. As I say, he's never done it, but Wilder looked pretty clueless against the clinch vs Fury. I know Chris said AJ has gassed in the past, but Wilder gassed in the second and third Fury fight, and he probably gassed in the first Ortiz fight until the fact that he was probably fighting a fifty year-old man came through for him. In contrast AJ has won multiple championship fights by decision and a quick look at Compubox says he threw 150 punches in the last three rounds of the Usyk fight, so his work rate certainly didn't die down at the end of the fight.

Wilder does have the edge in intangibles though, which I guess makes it interesting. Wilder gives the impression that despite having a wife, a family and more money than he'll ever need, he would be more than happy to die in the ring. AJ, by contrast looks like he probably wouldn't want his health inconvenienced in the ring.

Intangibles do matter in a sport where people are getting repeatedly hit, of course, but I've always felt AJ would have to fluff his lines to lose this fight
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Post by No name Bertie Wed 08 Mar 2023, 12:58 pm

Unless they fight we will never know. We can compare Wilder & Fury over three fights and AJ and Usyk over two fights, but the other combinations we can't know for sure. With the rewards at the very elite levels they don't need to continue fighting so it depends on motivation and a vision for showing one is the best of one's era. Both Wilder & Fury are not motivated to show they are the best of their era. AJ was but has suffered setbacks. Usyk seems only interested in getting all the belts - he is convinced he knows hot to beat Fury in the same way he was convinced he could beat AJ.
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Post by No name Bertie Wed 08 Mar 2023, 1:02 pm

In the modern era of boxing willingness to fight particular other elite boxers has to now be considered when considering a boxers "greatness". Both Wilder and Fury avoid other boxers.
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