Premiership Round Number 16 (I think)

OK, so I can't count too high, round 15,16, 20; it's all the same.....

Jeez, Sale are sullying Bath, 22-3 with 35 minutes gone. Almost seems like Bath doesn't want to be there.....

Sale indiscipline gives Bath a try before half time though. Unlikely to make it interesting but you never know.

I thought with the players Sale are missing and the team Bath have put out it would be closer than this ...

Bath wake up a bit then give away another yellow ...

And another yellow

Raffi Quirke is growing a porn star mustache.

Dickson now ignoring calls from the AR to ping Sale

Sale pulling themselves out of the fire, but they really did it the hard way. Du Preez getting 2 kicks from 8 isn't good enough.

Agree, the kicking at goal was terrible. But this shows Sale has some guts to reach down to when they need. Of course, Bath not coming up defensively at that last play helped Sale look good.

doctor_grey wrote:Raffi Quirke is growing a porn star mustache.

If he keeps playing that he might try the career change. Joking aside he looked a bit rusty, needs to get some minutes under the belt before he can make a claim for an England spot.

Rob du Preez had a shocker off the tee. The type of game Sale would have put to bed by 50 mins if Ford was fit. Bath's fight was good and Spencer played really well. To many silly mistakes and those yellow cards really sapped momentum at a time the game was in the balance.

Waller complaining about a no-arms tackle dismissed by the TMO. May have had a point ...

Now Mr B ignores a clear forward pass on the halfway line ...

And unluckily for Saints that miss by the officials ultimately leads to a try for Tigers ...

Saints respond with a beauty ...

Mr B a bit inconsistent - sometimes he allows hands on the ground before the turn-over other times not ... Tigers lucky there

And no way that line-out was straight .... don't get me wrong I have Tigers to win on SB but Barnes has gone a bit wayward ...

And then a pen - so 3 points for Tigers instead of a possible 3 for Saints ...

Nice tap tackle from Tigers saves a possible breakaway try ...

Wow that was some kick - Ramm is having a good game

Heaf wrote:Wow that was some kick - Ramm is having a good game

In the running for man of the match but the question will be should he be on the pitch.

I'd say no - but the way they are officiating the cards at the moment yellow is what I would expect ...

Unless it was LI of course in which case he would have seen red

Daft by Sleighthome - should have just booted it ...

How stupid was that by Saints ... just tap it and run out ...

Heaf wrote:I'd say no - but the way they are officiating the cards at the moment yellow is what I would expect ...

The player jumps into the tackle though so he's never in a position to make a legal tackle hence you aren't allowed any mitigation.

Tigers have only themselves to blame though, stupid errors from Simmons, Cracknell and Porter towards the end of the game to give the ball away and just the lack of any creativity after Pollard went off really cost us the game. Very poor and more pressure on Wigglesworth and the board because Saints weren't made to work hard enough for that win.

Didn't say it was correct - just what I'd expect currently from all the 'passive' nonsense which ignores basic physics.
Tigers definitely lacking in creativity for sure ...

Heaf wrote:Didn't say it was correct - just what I'd expect currently from all the 'passive' nonsense which ignores basic physics.  
Tigers definitely lacking in creativity for sure ...

Yeah it was so passive that Potter was left with a bloody nose. A rushed decision from Barnes.

What's worrying for me is that Wigglesworth is supposed to be our attack coach and given free reign as head coach I thought we might open up and play a bit more but I'm starting to think our attack last season was masterminded by one G Ford.

Pffft, Exeter/ Glos match, when they actually try to play is decent, but this kick tennis is meh.

At least those at the match are getting a good neck workout ...

And Glaws are kicking themselves backwards by continually kicking straight out

Started off looking promising with 2 quick tries both ways then descended into snoozeville ...

Glaws kicking has been awful too ...

Just watched the actions from Wiese, it doesn't look good in isolation...

Cumbrian wrote:Just watched the actions from Wiese, it doesn't look good in isolation...

It looks better than Ramm going airborne shoulder into Potter's face and only getting yellow. Protect players against concussion you say?

I'm sure it twinged for Waller and he was understandably annoyed and looking for a bit of retribution but there's no way Weise has got the sort of angle to be looking for serious damage. It's a clumsy and desperate attempt to force Waller to floor. It's Weise though and his priors are going to count against him (even when not recent anymore), particularly when citings are now done based on the court of public opinion (ask Joe Marler). Even so if I was Tigers I'd be bringing in martial artist and doctor to explain the force required to actually damage someone's knee and that pushing your head into their shin is not going to create the force required. That being said we don't want to encourage that sort of thing so a slap on the wrist might not be a bad thing.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Cumbrian wrote:Just watched the actions from Wiese, it doesn't look good in isolation...

It looks better than Ramm going airborne shoulder into Potter's face and only getting yellow. Protect players against concussion you say?

I'm sure it twinged for Waller and he was understandably annoyed and looking for a bit of retribution but there's no way Weise has got the sort of angle to be looking for serious damage. It's a clumsy and desperate attempt to force Waller to floor. It's Weise though and his priors are going to count against him (even when not recent anymore), particularly when citings are now done based on the court of public opinion (ask Joe Marler). Even so if I was Tigers I'd be bringing in martial artist and doctor to explain the force required to actually damage someone's knee and that pushing your head into their shin is not going to create the force required. That being said we don't want to encourage that sort of thing so a slap on the wrist might not be a bad thing.

I didn't see the Ramm incident, what relevance does it have to this incident?

I get that you're a Tigers fan defending their players , but as far as I can see it is a player riving a planted foot, which seems like sh1thousery to me.  Would you do it?  I never did when I played.   I certainly wouldn't want to see a Newcastle player do it...

Cumbrian wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Cumbrian wrote:Just watched the actions from Wiese, it doesn't look good in isolation...

It looks better than Ramm going airborne shoulder into Potter's face and only getting yellow. Protect players against concussion you say?

I'm sure it twinged for Waller and he was understandably annoyed and looking for a bit of retribution but there's no way Weise has got the sort of angle to be looking for serious damage. It's a clumsy and desperate attempt to force Waller to floor. It's Weise though and his priors are going to count against him (even when not recent anymore), particularly when citings are now done based on the court of public opinion (ask Joe Marler). Even so if I was Tigers I'd be bringing in martial artist and doctor to explain the force required to actually damage someone's knee and that pushing your head into their shin is not going to create the force required. That being said we don't want to encourage that sort of thing so a slap on the wrist might not be a bad thing.

I didn't see the Ramm incident, what relevance does it have to this incident?

I get that you're a Tigers fan defending their players , but as far as I can see it is a player riving a planted foot, which seems like sh1thousery to me.  Would you do it?  I never did when I played.   I certainly wouldn't want to see a Newcastle player do it...

No but I had it done to me. Whilst wearing a knee brace having just come back from injury. I was equally unimpressed with my initial reaction similar to Waller's but in the situation it was just the guy trying desperately to complete the tackle and doing something in the heat of the moment he hadn't thought through. He did apologise afterwards.

For reference this is what was under discussion.

https://twitter.com/richardlindsley/status/1619347010133557254?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1619347010133557254%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=

Oh that's a bit nasty.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Oh that's a bit nasty.

Not really, if you want to do serious damage there you need to roll or put sideways pressure on the joint. Need a lot of leverage or a lot of power to do damage from where Weise is. Not to say that Waller appreciated having his muscles given a stretch there.

Reminds me of Clark.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Reminds me of Clark.

No. Not in the slightest.

Clark took Hawkins elbow to a point where he knew he had leverage to do damage. Heard Hawkins cry out and then yanked the arm further to ensure he broke it. It's was GBH and that low life scum should have gone to jail instead of a stupidly lenient ban.

Weise a) never takes Waller's leg anywhere close to the point where he can do that level of damage and b) let's go when Waller yells at him suggesting that it's more of a heat of the moment desperation to complete the tackle rather than malicious intent. As I said it he wanted to do damage he just had to roll and take the weight through the side of Waller's knee, would have ended his season Weise notably doesn't.

If Weise gets a citing and Ramm doesn't the message to take away from this is that you either need to kick off or go down injured to ensure investigation. Potter playing on with a bloody nose and not going down meant Ramm got away with yellow. Had he gone down holding his face then Ramm doesn't play past 10 mins. Waller doesn't kick off and drop the old forearm into Weise then this is just another rugby playing incident like Potter in Hutchinson or Moon on Watson. All in the same game all bits of foul play but the last two aren't discussed at all because nobody kicked off or rolled around.

I doubt Ramm will be cited due to the bizarre logic being used about supposedly being 'passive' - if the ball carrier is running at speed the force will still be high.  

Loader got a red card despite making an otherwise legal tackle around the chest/shoulders without any direct contact to the head, but the whiplash from the tackle caused a head on clash.  The red was upheld as he was upright in the tackle (fair enough), so why are they mitigating other players that are equally upright that make direct contact with the head just because they are supposedly 'passive'.  

They still exert high force on the tackled player if the tackled player is running at speed (see Newton's 3rd Law).  If the intent is to reduce dangerous head contact then if a tackler causes a dangerous head clash due to being upright it should be red, irrespective of whether it's the tackler or the ball carrier that's bringing the speed to the contact.

And on the subject of officiating - I'm wondering if the ref/TMO will manage to rob Irish against Quins again today.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Reminds me of Clark.

No. Not in the slightest.

Clark took Hawkins elbow to a point where he knew he had leverage to do damage. Heard Hawkins cry out and then yanked the arm further to ensure he broke it. It's was GBH and that low life scum should have gone to jail instead of a stupidly lenient ban.

Weise a) never takes Waller's leg anywhere close to the point where he can do that level of damage and b) let's go when Waller yells at him suggesting that it's more of a heat of the moment desperation to complete the tackle rather than malicious intent. As I said it he wanted to do damage he just had to roll and take the weight through the side of Waller's knee, would have ended his season Weise notably doesn't.

If Weise gets a citing and Ramm doesn't the message to take away from this is that you either need to kick off or go down injured to ensure investigation. Potter playing on with a bloody nose and not going down meant Ramm got away with yellow. Had he gone down holding his face then Ramm doesn't play past 10 mins. Waller doesn't kick off and drop the old forearm into Weise then this is just another rugby playing incident like Potter in Hutchinson or Moon on Watson. All in the same game all bits of foul play but the last two aren't discussed at all because nobody kicked off or rolled around.

Does for me.

Has to be a pen try.

Unfortunately yes - inevitable for Irish to start well then give away a stupid card ...

Oh ... but a great reply

And maybe a card coming for Quins ...

That's a red

What's taking so long - not a difficult one to call