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Champions Cup Quarter Finals 2023

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Post by thebandwagonsociety Mon 03 Apr 2023, 2:55 pm

Quarter-finals

Friday, April 7th:
Leinster v Leicester Tigers, Aviva Stadium, 8pm

Saturday, April 8th:
Toulouse v Cell C Sharks, Stade Ernest Wallon, 4pm;
Exeter v DHL Stormers, Sandy Park, 5.30pm

Sunday, April 9th:
La Rochelle v Saracens, Stade Marcel Deflandre, 4pm

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Post by thebandwagonsociety Mon 03 Apr 2023, 3:00 pm

Some very interesting match ups.
The home teams for the quarter finals contains the competition winners going back to 15/16 HCup season.
The round of last 16, for all the hype and competition, all home sides progressed(?).
The SA sides are the real 'cat amongst the pigeons' change to the narrative for this season.
3 Prem teams, 3 URC sides and 2 Top14 so a relatively even spread.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Mon 03 Apr 2023, 5:21 pm

Another year another quarter final exit against Leinster it seems for Tigers.

Some belting ties this weekend though. Not sure how many I'll get to watch but whilst you'd go for home wins in the first two then other half the draw could easily go either way.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Tue 04 Apr 2023, 12:13 pm

Colombe has been cited for his Croc roll...not sure what exactly for. I'm struggling to see how it's even a foul tbh under the current laws. You could say he doesn't try to stay on his feet but that's the case for a load of clear outs. The citing officer trying to say they should all be red? Don't like it's within the laws but it is?

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Post by RiscaGame Tue 04 Apr 2023, 12:57 pm

There seems to be a lot of conflicting information on twitter, from when I followed what Progressive Rugby tweeted about how they should be banned. Some people say that it is banned, but not enforced. Some are trying to mention the off the feet law. I think there is going to have to be a clarification here, as there shouldn't be this much uncertainty over something.

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Post by thebandwagonsociety Wed 05 Apr 2023, 9:11 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Colombe has been cited for his Croc roll...not sure what exactly for. I'm struggling to see how it's even a foul tbh under the current laws. You could say he doesn't try to stay on his feet but that's the case for a load of clear outs. The citing officer trying to say they should all be red? Don't like it's within the laws but it is?

It's strange that it's being pinged under 9.11 also which in my mind is more about the ball carrier being reckless going into contact.
Croc rolls are nasty though and should not be allowed in the game. They shouldn't be in the game, but the laws might need updated to properly catch them.
I'd have thought a citing would be more on 9.20.d as its putting weight through the side of a players knee to rip up their ligaments during a clearout.
Similar in potential outcomes/injuries to chop blocks in NFL, where a player is engaged with an opponent up high and another lineman decides to 'accidentally fall' sideways into that held players knee.

It's probably 9.11 because that's vague enough to cover anything "Players must not do anything that is reckless or dangerous to others .....". There is probably a catch-all ability to cite any instance in a game that results in a serious injury as dangerous/reckless under this text.


https://www.rugbypass.com/news/ugly-la-rochelle-clearout-on-ruan-ackermann-has-resulted-in-citing-colombe/

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Post by formerly known as Sam Wed 05 Apr 2023, 9:58 am

thebandwagonsociety wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Colombe has been cited for his Croc roll...not sure what exactly for. I'm struggling to see how it's even a foul tbh under the current laws. You could say he doesn't try to stay on his feet but that's the case for a load of clear outs. The citing officer trying to say they should all be red? Don't like it's within the laws but it is?

It's strange that it's being pinged under 9.11 also which in my mind is more about the ball carrier being reckless going into contact.
Croc rolls are nasty though and should not be allowed in the game. They shouldn't be in the game, but the laws might need updated to properly catch them.
I'd have thought a citing would be more on 9.20.d as its putting weight through the side of a players knee to rip up their ligaments during a clearout.
Similar in potential outcomes/injuries to chop blocks in NFL, where a player is engaged with an opponent up high and another lineman decides to 'accidentally fall' sideways into that held players knee.

It's probably 9.11 because that's vague enough to cover anything "Players must not do anything that is reckless or dangerous to others .....". There is probably a catch-all ability to cite any instance in a game that results in a serious injury as dangerous/reckless under this text.


https://www.rugbypass.com/news/ugly-la-rochelle-clearout-on-ruan-ackermann-has-resulted-in-citing-colombe/

It's an interesting citing. It's a near carbon copy of the incident that has made Nic Dolly miss the last year of rugby. Davison in that incidence got the same yellow card punishment that Colombe got. The fact that we're still seeing this lazy and dangerous play in the game suggests that maybe we need some examples to be made.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Wed 05 Apr 2023, 2:12 pm

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/south-african-coach-calls-out-not-so-kosher-joe-marler-incident/

Joe Marler making friends in South Africa.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Wed 05 Apr 2023, 2:49 pm

Slightly surprised Leicester are only taking 500 fans to Ireland this weekend. Would have thought with the bank holiday there'd be more off on a jolly.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Wed 05 Apr 2023, 3:47 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Slightly surprised Leicester are only taking 500 fans to Ireland this weekend. Would have thought with the bank holiday there'd be more off on a jolly.

On the offy forum there's a lot of talk about flights and accomodation being eyewateringly expensive. Three or four times the price of the week before. The only way people are finding a way of doing it is to drive up, get the ferry over and then comeback on the ferry after the game. That's a really long day with an 8pm KO and a complete no go if you're thinking of taking the family.

If it had been Saturday afternoon I reckon there would have been a few more coaches going but as is it's a crappy time and short timeframe to get travel plans sorted. Easter weekend as well which is a bugger of a time to get late bookings at the best of times.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Wed 05 Apr 2023, 4:26 pm

helais

HEINEKEN CHAMPIONS CUP

Georges-Henri Colombe suspended for four weeks

The Stade Rochelais replacement prop, Georges-Henri Colombe, has been suspended for four weeks following an independent Disciplinary Hearing arising from his club’s Heineken Champions Cup, Round of 16 match against Gloucester Rugby at Stade Marcel Deflandre.

Colombe was cited by the match Citing Commissioner, Beth Dickens (Scotland), for carrying out a dangerous clear-out at a ruck on the Gloucester Rugby back row, Ruan Ackermann, in the 68th minute of the match in contravention of Law 9.11.

Law 9.11 A player must not do anything that is reckless or dangerous to others
Under World Rugby’s Sanctions for Foul Play, Law 9.11 relating to reckless or dangerous play, carries the following sanction entry points – Low End: 2 weeks; Mid-range: 6 weeks; Top end: 10 to 52 weeks

An independent Disciplinary Committee comprising Antony Davies (England), Chair, Donal Courtney (Ireland) and Frank Hadden (Scotland), viewed footage of the incident and heard evidence by video conference from Colombe, who accepted that he had committed an act of foul play but did not accept that it warranted a red card.

The committee also heard submissions from the Stade Rochelais Director of Rugby, Ronan O’Gara, from the Stade Rochelais Sporting Director, Robert Mohr, and from the EPCR Disciplinary Officer, Liam McTiernan. The club’s legal representative, Yves-Marie Fève, was also present during the hearing.

The committee upheld the citing complaint, finding that Colombe had committed a reckless act of foul play. It then determined that the offending was at the mid-range of World Rugby’s sanctions and six weeks was selected as the appropriate entry point.

Due to the player’s clear disciplinary record and his timely apology to Ackermann, the committee reduced the sanction by two weeks before imposing a four-week suspension.

If Stade Rochelais qualify for a Heineken Champions Cup semi-final, Colombe will be free to play on Monday 1 May, however, if Stade Rochelais do not qualify for a Heineken Champions Cup semi-final, he will be free to play on Monday 8 May.

Both the player and EPCR have the right to appeal the decision.



Zach Mercer red card dismissed

The Montpellier Hérault Rugby No 8, Zach Mercer, has had the red card shown to him during his club’s Heineken Champions Cup, Round of 16 match against the Exeter Chiefs at Sandy Park, dismissed following an independent Disciplinary Hearing.

Mercer was sent off by the referee, Andrew Brace (Ireland), in the 50th minute of the match for tackling the Exeter Chiefs back row, Christ Tshiunza, in a dangerous manner in contravention of Law 9.13.

Law 9.13 A player must not tackle an opponent dangerously
Under World Rugby’s Sanctions for Foul Play, Law 9.13 relating to dangerous tackling carries the following sanction entry points – Low End: 2 weeks; Mid-range: 6 weeks; Top end: 10 to 52 weeks.

An independent Disciplinary Committee comprising David Martin (Ireland), Chair, Gordon Black (Ireland) and Bogdan Zebega (Romania), viewed footage of the incident and heard evidence by video conference from Mercer, who accepted that he had committed an act of foul play but did not accept that it warranted a red card.

The committee also heard submissions from the Montpellier Hérault Rugby Director of Rugby, Philippe Saint André, from the club’s Defence and Laws Coach, Alex Ruiz, from the club’s Team Manager, Tom Whitford, and from the EPCR Disciplinary Officer, Liam McTiernan. The club’s legal representative, Joris Loupien, was also present during the hearing.

The committee decided that although Mercer had committed an act of foul play, the tackle did not warrant a red card. The sending off was therefore dismissed and Mercer is free to play.

EPCR have the right to appeal the decision.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Wed 05 Apr 2023, 4:29 pm

Cant agree with either of these. Mercers was a close yellow red incident but can't see anything that would overturn it.
Re Colombe, the decision has been made due to the injury. We'll see similar clearputs about 20 times this weekend and won't see penalties given let alone reds.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Thu 06 Apr 2023, 8:28 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Slightly surprised Leicester are only taking 500 fans to Ireland this weekend. Would have thought with the bank holiday there'd be more off on a jolly.

As an update on that there's going to be some Irish voices singing Tigers. James Cronin's club have arranged a couple of coach load of fans to head up from Cork to support him.

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Post by Collapse2005 Thu 06 Apr 2023, 11:25 am

formerly known as Sam wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Slightly surprised Leicester are only taking 500 fans to Ireland this weekend. Would have thought with the bank holiday there'd be more off on a jolly.

As an update on that there's going to be some Irish voices singing Tigers. James Cronin's club have arranged a couple of coach load of fans to head up from Cork to support him.

I think that was a bit of a tongue in cheek comment from James Cronin. His club confirmed they are not sending busses to the game but maybe some of his immediate family may be going. There may well be a few Munster fans that would support Leicester, some of that is down to a bit of pettiness that has always been there however, Id imagine a majority would support Leinster.

Think the top tiers will be closed for the game given the short turn around for selling tickets, perhaps thats why Leicester are taking less fans.

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Thu 06 Apr 2023, 12:04 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Slightly surprised Leicester are only taking 500 fans to Ireland this weekend. Would have thought with the bank holiday there'd be more off on a jolly.

As an update on that there's going to be some Irish voices singing Tigers. James Cronin's club have arranged a couple of coach load of fans to head up from Cork to support him.

I think that was a bit of a tongue in cheek comment from James Cronin. His club confirmed they are not sending busses to the game but maybe some of his immediate family may be going. There may well be a few Munster fans that would support Leicester, some of that is down to a bit of pettiness that has always been there however, Id imagine a majority would support Leinster.

Think the top tiers will be closed for the game given the short turn around for selling tickets, perhaps thats why Leicester are taking less fans.
Leicester were given 1500-2000 tickets but getting 500 away fans is an achievement to be honest. One weeks notice and the price of everything is outrageous.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Thu 06 Apr 2023, 12:33 pm

Leinster Rugby (caps in brackets):
15. Hugo Keenan (52)
14. Jimmy O’Brien (67)
13. Garry Ringrose (113)
12. Robbie Henshaw (74)
11. James Lowe (70)
10. Ross Byrne (144)
9. Jamison Gibson-Park (122)
1. Andrew Porter (104)
2. Dan Sheehan (42)
3. Tadhg Furlong (130)
4. Ross Molony (159)
5. James Ryan (70) CAPTAIN
6. Ryan Baird (49)
7. Caelan Doris (64)
8. Jack Conan (128)

16. John McKee (16)
17. Cian Healy (260)
18. Michael Ala’alatoa (43)
19. Jason Jenkins (13)
20. Scott Penny (54)
21. Luke McGrath (191)
22. Harry Byrne (47)
23. Ciarán Frawley (63)

STARTING XV
15 Mike Brown [5]
14 Anthony Watson [13]
13 Harry Potter [63]
12 Dan Kelly [52]
11 Freddie Steward [69]
10 Handré Pollard [11]
9 Jack van Poortvliet [62]
1 James Cronin [13]
2 Julián Montoya (c) [40]
3 Joe Heyes [120]
4 George Martin [55]
5 Cameron Henderson [33]
6 Hanro Liebenberg [81]
7 Tommy Reffell [96]
8 Jasper Wiese [57]

REPLACEMENTS
16 Charlie Clare [75]
17 Tom West [7]
18 Dan Cole [306]
19 Eli Snyman [32]
20 Olly Cracknell [21]
21 Sam Wolstenholme *
22 Charlie Atkinson [15]
23 Jimmy Gopperth [14]

Referee: Nika Amashukeli (GRU)

No openside starting for Leinster and Tigers struggling to find fit centres and wings.

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Post by doctor_grey Fri 07 Apr 2023, 8:02 pm

whoa, that was easy

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Post by formerly known as Sam Fri 07 Apr 2023, 8:08 pm

Leinster have got away with one there. That wasn't a knock on Cronin was tackles before the pass there. No idea what the TMO is playing at that's a stone wall yellow card 5m out.

First Leinster try was far to easy. Kelly looks rusty.

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Post by doctor_grey Fri 07 Apr 2023, 8:20 pm

The commentators just noticed it: Lots of blood for so early in the match. Real physical.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Fri 07 Apr 2023, 8:25 pm

Got to be lots of physicality, only way Tigers have a chance.

Tigers midfield really struggling. Kelly doesn't look match fit and Potter isn't a centre. Not a lot of experience between them either.

That JVP little chip through was so disappointing, he's got to be more patient than that. Tigers phase play was working and he wasn't under pressure.

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Post by doctor_grey Fri 07 Apr 2023, 8:42 pm

It almost doesn't seem fair. Look at all the experience - and quality - in the Leinster mid field.

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Post by carpet baboon Fri 07 Apr 2023, 8:52 pm

Couple of things.
Martin has to be one of England's second row at the world cup. And if it was me I would take brown too.
I feel bad for the Tigers centers as ringrose is a very special 13

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Post by Rugby Fan Fri 07 Apr 2023, 8:55 pm

Haven't watched the match but, given some of the comments here and elsewhere online, 17-10 doesn't seem a bad halftime scoreline for Tigers.

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Post by carpet baboon Fri 07 Apr 2023, 9:00 pm

It's not a bad score at all. I think anyone who actually knows about rugby never said this would be a Leinster walk over (ignore the Poopie coming out of some of the press,)
Tigers don't roll over for anyone. I rate wigglesworth highly he has always had a great rugby intelligence and is showing it as a DoR.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Fri 07 Apr 2023, 9:04 pm

carpet baboon wrote:Couple of things.
Martin has to be one of England's second row at the world cup. And if it was me I would take brown too.
I feel bad for the Tigers centers as ringrose is a very special 13

Brown has dropped to pretty routine high balls that have both ended up being tries for Leinster. He's looked good in attack but I'd move him onto the wing and Steward to 15.

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Post by carpet baboon Fri 07 Apr 2023, 9:07 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:Couple of things.
Martin has to be one of England's second row at the world cup. And if it was me I would take brown too.
I feel bad for the Tigers centers as ringrose is a very special 13

Brown has dropped to pretty routine high balls that have both ended up being tries for Leinster. He's looked good in attack but I'd move him onto the wing and Steward to 15.

I would take him for his attitude alone.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Fri 07 Apr 2023, 9:07 pm

There's been some questions elsewhere about the non-existent TMO and as many as three very questionable Leinster clearouts in the first half. There was a pretty nasty neck roll just missed there as well. I suspect it might be an unpleasant review for the TMO on Monday.

Oh and finally the referee has spotted one on Reffell

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Post by carpet baboon Fri 07 Apr 2023, 9:10 pm

Red? Yellow who knows?

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Fri 07 Apr 2023, 9:11 pm

He tackled his arm Laugh

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Post by formerly known as Sam Fri 07 Apr 2023, 9:14 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:He tackled his arm Laugh

Was a soft one. Unsure if it makes up for the stone wall one in the first half that should have gone for the early tackle on Cronin.

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Post by doctor_grey Fri 07 Apr 2023, 9:14 pm

I'm happy that was a yellow. Seems reasonable.

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Fri 07 Apr 2023, 9:15 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:He tackled his arm Laugh

Was a soft one. Unsure if it makes up for the stone wall one in the first half that should have gone for the early tackle on Cronin.
There was an early tackle Missed for Leinster too just after that...

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Fri 07 Apr 2023, 9:16 pm

Leicester have really turned up here. Their defense has been ferocious.

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Post by nathan Fri 07 Apr 2023, 9:17 pm

How do Leinster consistently get away with illegal clear outs, the amount of tucked arms or going of their feet

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Post by carpet baboon Fri 07 Apr 2023, 9:17 pm

Let's be honest. If we played exactly to the letter of the law and trawled through everything at slow motion it would be ten a side

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Post by carpet baboon Fri 07 Apr 2023, 9:21 pm

Hat trick avoidance from ringrose there

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Fri 07 Apr 2023, 9:22 pm

Ringrose has just been sublime this season.

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Post by doctor_grey Fri 07 Apr 2023, 9:22 pm

That last try looked so easy (fully knowing all the grunt work which sucked in the defense).

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Post by doctor_grey Fri 07 Apr 2023, 9:25 pm

That Andrew Porter is a beast. I guess one would have to be in order to get away with a bad haircut like he does.

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Fri 07 Apr 2023, 9:26 pm

Byrne hands on the floor like Montoya in the first half. Some poor decisions but nothing too major.

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Post by carpet baboon Fri 07 Apr 2023, 9:26 pm

Got away with hands on the floor first there

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Post by carpet baboon Fri 07 Apr 2023, 9:27 pm

doctor_grey wrote:That Andrew Porter is a beast.  I guess one would have to be in order to get away with a bad haircut like he does.  

Brave man to tell him how Poopie his hair cuts are

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Post by formerly known as Sam Fri 07 Apr 2023, 9:27 pm

doctor_grey wrote:That last try looked so easy (fully knowing all the grunt work which sucked in the defense).  

Ringrose has had a stunning game. Easy man of the match.

The ref is being incredibly lenient to Leinster after the yellow card. The penalty try coming after an absolutely shockingly bad penalty call at the breakdown. Clare tackling that maul was stupid though. Has completely killed the game with seven points and down a man.

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Post by carpet baboon Fri 07 Apr 2023, 9:30 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:That last try looked so easy (fully knowing all the grunt work which sucked in the defense).  

Ringrose has had a stunning game. Easy man of the match.

The ref is being incredibly lenient to Leinster after the yellow card. The penalty try coming after an absolutely shockingly bad penalty call at the breakdown. Clare tackling that maul was stupid though. Has completely killed the game with seven points and down a man.

I think he's being pretty lenient to whichever team is attacking, just Leinster have been attacking more

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Post by formerly known as Sam Fri 07 Apr 2023, 9:41 pm

carpet baboon wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:That last try looked so easy (fully knowing all the grunt work which sucked in the defense).  

Ringrose has had a stunning game. Easy man of the match.

The ref is being incredibly lenient to Leinster after the yellow card. The penalty try coming after an absolutely shockingly bad penalty call at the breakdown. Clare tackling that maul was stupid though. Has completely killed the game with seven points and down a man.

I think he's being pretty lenient to whichever team is attacking, just Leinster have been attacking more

Quite possibly. That penalty against Martin just now was pretty much BS. He drove through in an almost identical way Ryan did in the Leinster 22. I quite like this ref normally but Tigers are getting nothing in terms of the 50:50 calls which I suppose you don't tend to get away from home.

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Post by nathan Fri 07 Apr 2023, 9:42 pm

Dan Cole held in meaning he couldn't close the big gaping hole.

Tigers can't buy a decision
, Leinster are that good they don't need these.


Last edited by nathan on Fri 07 Apr 2023, 9:43 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Fri 07 Apr 2023, 9:43 pm

The scoreboard won't reflect how competitive Leicester were here. Leinster are pretty ruthless in these situations.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Fri 07 Apr 2023, 9:44 pm

I'm not sure that's even a high tackle.

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Post by doctor_grey Fri 07 Apr 2023, 9:44 pm

Well when a match enters garbage time and things are slowing down, enter Mike Brown to add some energy....

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Post by formerly known as Sam Fri 07 Apr 2023, 9:46 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:The scoreboard won't reflect how competitive Leicester were here. Leinster are pretty ruthless in these situations.

So much class in that Leinster side though isn't there. Half chances are suddenly more like 60:40 in Leinster's favour. Keeping the team together for an extended period just means they are all so in sync with each other as well.

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