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England's Summer of Cricket 2023, Featuring The Ashes

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Post by king_carlos Thu 20 Jul 2023 - 14:22

50 up for Mo at an absolutely vital moment.  clap clap

A fortuitous way to get there with Cummins not picking it up. It frankly looked like he wasn't moving well chasing back for it either.

Starc back on which I think slows how key a period the Aussies know this is. He's looked their best bowler today.

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Post by KP_fan Thu 20 Jul 2023 - 14:26

msp83 wrote:
KP_fan wrote:
msp83 wrote:Ian Botham, Fredye Flintoff, Stuart Broad and? Yes, Moeen Ali! The double of 200 test wickets and 3000 test runs! And he shouldn't even have been selected after 2016!! And only 3 men have achieved the double in fewer test matches, Botham, Shakib Al Hasan and Chris Cairns.
Anyways England's session though that no-ball took out valuable time and added a few more runs. An underappreciated aspect of Australia's current UK tour is Starc's contributions with the bat. Starting from the WTC final, he has been chipping in nicely. For a bit, Cummins was promoted above Starc and I always thought the latter was the better bat. The skipper corrected the situation and Starc has been doing a silant but nice job since. And of course, nothing not obvious about that early strike with the new ball...
Thought England missed a trick by not introducing Wood earlier into the attack. Old man Anderson picked up a wicket early on, and that should have been the sign for Wood to be on perhaps after 1 more over from Anderson. Though he didn't pick up the wicket, Woakes did the job a 2nd time, after Wood was brought on.
Yup only 1 or 2 spinners in Eng have ever taken 200 wickets...leave aside doubling it with runs
England has had only 2 top class test spinners in the modern era. Derek Underwood and Graham Swann. Though the way the contributions like that of Moeen's is at time denegrated might suggest that top class test spinners are walking around the islands not knowing what to do, the well has well and truly been dry.

that's a paltry return for spin resources in a nation with a long history like Eng

FIFTY for Moeen clap clap

The mistake Eng did was moving him down to 8 and 9
Had they secured him a place in top-5 as a batter...he would have delivered more with both bat and ball.

I think he has safely stamped the place as first spinner now for next 2 to 3 years
Leach will get in as 2nd spinner in subcontinent.
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Post by VTR Thu 20 Jul 2023 - 14:30

Erm, let's not get carried away with Moeen's batting, this being his first Test fifty since January 2019. Its a very good and welcome innings, but doesn't suddenly make him someone who should have been in the top 5 for the last decade

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Post by eirebilly_01 Thu 20 Jul 2023 - 14:32

Oh well, Moeen out but he has more than done his job today.

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Post by VTR Thu 20 Jul 2023 - 14:32

king_carlos wrote:The last time England were in a commanding position was T2 D2 when I considered giving up on cricket watching the dismissals just after Lyon had hobbled off.

They're rightly targeting Head here. Mo hits spin very well and a part time offie to a set right-hander isn't a good matchup at the other end.
The first cricket series I ever watched was the 1993 Ashes, so it's beyond reason that I ever watched a game again

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Post by king_carlos Thu 20 Jul 2023 - 14:32

Another miss by Cummins. That should be taken.

Then a good catch from Khawaja gets rid of Mo. Bringing Starc back works.

Mo has done his job though and given England a really good platform here.

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Post by GSC Thu 20 Jul 2023 - 14:33

So ends the Mo fun. Done a great job for the team though.

Can Root cash in? After the first innings at Edgbaston he hasn't quite come to the party
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Post by Marky Thu 20 Jul 2023 - 14:34

KP_fan wrote:I think he has safely stamped the place as first spinner now for next 2 to 3 years

Ignoring the fact he's said himself he doesn't want to return to Test Cricket full time, of course Laugh

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Post by Duty281 Thu 20 Jul 2023 - 14:38

Decent knock from Moeen. Pretty much prime batting conditions today, no help from overhead and the pitch is a beauty, so vital England take full advantage from this position.

Do think Cummins has perhaps pushed himself a test too far. Raises questions of whether he'll be able to play in the 5th test. Also gives more credit to Broad who has played every test of this summer with no loss of intensity or wicket-taking.

Difficult to get properly invested in this test because of the looming threat of rain.

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Post by Duty281 Thu 20 Jul 2023 - 14:41

KP_fan wrote:I think he has safely stamped the place as first spinner now for next 2 to 3 years
Leach will get in as 2nd spinner in subcontinent.

As Marky alludes to, his return to test cricket ends at the Oval.

Secondly, Moeen is averaging 57 with the ball in this series, at least 20 worse than what Leach would manage. A first choice spinner would be averaging better than 57 with the ball.

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Post by msp83 Thu 20 Jul 2023 - 14:41

KP_fan wrote:
msp83 wrote:
KP_fan wrote:
msp83 wrote:Ian Botham, Fredye Flintoff, Stuart Broad and? Yes, Moeen Ali! The double of 200 test wickets and 3000 test runs! And he shouldn't even have been selected after 2016!! And only 3 men have achieved the double in fewer test matches, Botham, Shakib Al Hasan and Chris Cairns.
Anyways England's session though that no-ball took out valuable time and added a few more runs. An underappreciated aspect of Australia's current UK tour is Starc's contributions with the bat. Starting from the WTC final, he has been chipping in nicely. For a bit, Cummins was promoted above Starc and I always thought the latter was the better bat. The skipper corrected the situation and Starc has been doing a silant but nice job since. And of course, nothing not obvious about that early strike with the new ball...
Thought England missed a trick by not introducing Wood earlier into the attack. Old man Anderson picked up a wicket early on, and that should have been the sign for Wood to be on perhaps after 1 more over from Anderson. Though he didn't pick up the wicket, Woakes did the job a 2nd time, after Wood was brought on.
Yup only 1 or 2 spinners in Eng have ever taken 200 wickets...leave aside doubling it with runs
England has had only 2 top class test spinners in the modern era. Derek Underwood and Graham Swann. Though the way the contributions like that of Moeen's is at time denegrated might suggest that top class test spinners are walking around the islands not knowing what to do, the well has well and truly been dry.

that's a paltry return for spin resources in a nation with a long history like Eng

FIFTY for Moeen clap  clap

The mistake Eng did was moving him down to 8 and 9
Had they secured him a place in top-5 as a batter...he would have delivered more with both bat and ball.

I think he has safely stamped the place as first spinner now for next 2 to 3 years
Leach will get in as 2nd spinner in subcontinent.
Mo had admited very recently also that while he considers test cricket the best format, its the toughest as well, and that he wasn't sure how much longer would he want to keep going with it. He has moved to the SA 20 now, so not sure whether he'll be playing in India. No-brainer to pick him if he's available. Leach is a 2nd innings specialist who can't bowl to left-handers. Hopefully, by the winter, Rishabh should be good to go... Young Rehan Ahmed has potential and should be on that tour. But if Mo is available, it has to be him and Leach, who is the best of the rest who should have first go.
Anyways there is a lot of time for that.

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Post by KP_fan Thu 20 Jul 2023 - 14:44

Marky wrote:
KP_fan wrote:I think he has safely stamped the place as first spinner now for next 2 to 3 years

Ignoring the fact he's said himself he doesn't want to return to Test Cricket full time, of course Laugh

he retired from tests...Retirement means he did not want to play.
They pleaded and served him a spot on platter....he relented and rescinded his retirement.
They will plead again and he will rescind his
said himself he doesn't want to return to Test Cricket full time
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Post by GSC Thu 20 Jul 2023 - 14:45

Can we just have a Moenn thread for you all to get it out of your systems...
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Post by alfie Thu 20 Jul 2023 - 14:46

Very entertaining hour...

Good progress for England . Love watching Crawley and Moeen bat. Only frustration was that England have again failed to make Australia pay for dropping a catch : Moeen offering another chance so soon after. Was a good catch by Khawaja anyway...and a very fine knock from Moeen👏

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Post by GSC Thu 20 Jul 2023 - 15:04

Fabulous 100 for Crawley, has gotten starts in this series but finally converts
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Post by alfie Thu 20 Jul 2023 - 15:05

Ashes Hundred for Zac clapclapclap

Top knock. Now go on with it lad , make it a big one ...

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Post by GSC Thu 20 Jul 2023 - 15:07

Short ball trap is being laid...
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Post by king_carlos Thu 20 Jul 2023 - 15:11

A brilliant innings from Crawley.

He's too inconsistent. His average is rubbish. He gets out in infuriatingly poor ways. But his ceiling is very high indeed. He can play innings other openers can't due to his stroke play. In the time pressure the weather forecast is creating for this Test that is a masterstroke of an innings.

50 partnership in just over 5 overs.

Whisper it quietly but the Aussie seamers are looking tired. The short balls aren't quite getting up there, paces are down. They're reluctant to bowl Green. Head got targeted. Given it isn't swinging Marsh isn't much of an option.

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Post by Soul Requiem Thu 20 Jul 2023 - 15:17

Crawley is currently 110 off of 102 balls, that includes 62 runs from boundaries but also 48 from running between the wicket. The former is impressive but so is the latter and makes it so difficult to set fields to a genuine 360 player.

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Post by GSC Thu 20 Jul 2023 - 15:19

Here comes England's nemesis
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Post by king_carlos Thu 20 Jul 2023 - 15:20

Soul Requiem wrote:Crawley is currently 110 off of 102 balls, that includes 62 runs from boundaries but also 48 from running between the wicket. The former is impressive but so is the latter and makes it so difficult to set fields to a genuine 360 player.
It is a significant improvement he's shown in this series. In order to cover that outside edge when defending it almost looks like he's intentionally playing his forward press off the inside half of his bat which is creating regular singles square on the leg side. Because he's so tall and can get on top of the short ball you realistically need men back on the leg side to make the short ball an option. Which is an interesting conundrum, created by an odd solution, to a problem that an opener shouldn't have. It's very Zak Crawley.

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Post by Duty281 Thu 20 Jul 2023 - 15:24

Good innings from Crawley, taking full advantage.

Aussie bowling is in a mess. They've missed Lyon in a big way, Starc's feeling his hamstring, Hazlewood and Cummins are not 100%, and Head's just not it as a test bowler. This is the weakest they've been all series.

Wonder if we will see a freakish declaration, or if England will just pile up the runs? They should just pile them up.

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Post by GSC Thu 20 Jul 2023 - 15:36

Mitch overstepping twice in one over to makes Woakes feel better
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Post by GSC Thu 20 Jul 2023 - 15:39

100 run partnership up in double time
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Post by king_carlos Thu 20 Jul 2023 - 15:43

Duty281 wrote:Good innings from Crawley, taking full advantage.

Aussie bowling is in a mess. They've missed Lyon in a big way, Starc's feeling his hamstring, Hazlewood and Cummins are not 100%, and Head's just not it as a test bowler. This is the weakest they've been all series.

Wonder if we will see a freakish declaration, or if England will just pile up the runs? They should just pile them up.
If it is a three day Test then batting once is still their best chance of a freak victory. It's also really good batting conditions. I think they'll make the most of them today then hope for better bowling conditions tomorrow.

When Brook, Stokes and Bairstow respectively come in I expect they will go very hard even by Bazball standards though. If they can get to parity with wickets in hand (which they should from here with the Aussie bowling looking very ragged) then I'd expect those three to go full T20 basically. The best white ball batters talk about 'big overs' now. Ones where they get after a bowler and can take them for 20+ runs. I wouldn't be surprised if those three in particular batted like that. Two 'big overs' could feasibly add 50 runs to a potential lead if they get to parity in good time.

100 partnership in 82 balls.

Trailing by 78 runs at tea with 8 wickets in hand.

If it weren't for that weather forecast it'd be a dream position.

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Post by GSC Thu 20 Jul 2023 - 15:45

Great session for England, showing Australia rather gave it away yesterday with set batsmen.

Should be on for a big lead here, how many more overs Cummins decides to put into his main seam attack to be seen.
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Post by msp83 Thu 20 Jul 2023 - 15:45

A fabulous hundred for Crawley who should have been dropped long ago, half-century for Moeen Ali who was worth it only for 1 year in his nearly a decade-long test career in 2016. Bazball approach putting the Australians under the pump big time. Very interesting times indeed.
But of course the conditions are such that Boycott's Nan would fancy a go, pitch is a road, bowlers have lost it, though no Australian could score above 52...

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Post by Duty281 Thu 20 Jul 2023 - 15:46

Incredible session for England, the wheels falling off for Australia. England's best chance of forcing a win might be to declare overnight, and they may have a 100+ run lead by then if they maintain a similar rate, with the aim of bowling Australia out tomorrow.

Forecast still looking rubbish for Saturday and Sunday, with a decent chance of a delayed start tomorrow, so the draw still looks favourite.

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Post by alfie Thu 20 Jul 2023 - 15:47

Wonderful session by England ! 178/1 off 25 overs Shocked

Crawley with a hundred in the session really justifying McCullum's continued support , I think one must admit.

One thing I also liked was that for once they didn't go silly late in that session : Marsh and Head bowling , no threat : so they just "milked the cows" ... lots of singles , fours off the really rank deliveries : just the odd six to spice things up Smile

A strong position : hopefully make it stronger in the evening session as the Aussie bowlers are looking a bit fatigued...

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Post by msp83 Thu 20 Jul 2023 - 15:48

In all seriousness, England really walking all over Australia in that session. Crawley and Moeen set the platform, and after Moeen got out, Crawley went quickly through the gears and Root started in the 5th! Australia seems totally dominated for the first time in the series.

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Post by alfie Thu 20 Jul 2023 - 15:52

Can't really worry about the forecast though.  Just have to pile on the runs , get a substantial lead and hope they get enough play in to finish the job.

More than the weather threat , I think the main problem might be bowling Australia out a second time on this very bland pitch.

But forget predictions/plans : as I've tried to do throughout this series I will be trying again to stay in the moment and just enjoy the action...

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Post by GSC Thu 20 Jul 2023 - 15:55

I'd be hoping to get on at times over the weekend even if it's patchy, in what would probably be pretty horrible conditions to bat in. Saw what happened on day 3 at Headingley
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Post by GSC Thu 20 Jul 2023 - 15:58

Anyway England still have to get the runs before we talk about declarations. Will Pat bring himself back or just try and to stall out the game after tea
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Post by compelling and rich Thu 20 Jul 2023 - 16:03

What the hell is a umpire review, can’t even be arsed giving decisions on the pitch

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Post by Duty281 Thu 20 Jul 2023 - 16:04

I think the umpire thought it was nicked behind, just wanted to check the catch. Hopeless. Not sure what happens in that circumstance if Australia wanted to review for LBW?

Joel Wilson will also be umpiring the 5th test.

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Post by Duty281 Thu 20 Jul 2023 - 16:19

A no-ball stopping Australia from burning a review.

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Post by GSC Thu 20 Jul 2023 - 16:21

Fine 50 from Root. Feels like he's barely played a shot in anger and its above a run a ball
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Post by Soul Requiem Thu 20 Jul 2023 - 16:22

Duty281 wrote:I think the umpire thought it was nicked behind, just wanted to check the catch. Hopeless. Not sure what happens in that circumstance if Australia wanted to review for LBW?

Joel Wilson will also be umpiring the 5th test.

When a batsman is given out the mode of dismissal isn't relevant so both LBW and caught should be checked.

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Post by alfie Thu 20 Jul 2023 - 16:32

150 for Zac clapclapclap

276/2. Speeding up again after a circumspect start after tea.

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Post by Soul Requiem Thu 20 Jul 2023 - 16:40

How on earth does this guy average just 28.

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Post by GSC Thu 20 Jul 2023 - 16:41

Tends to doze off when he gets to about 30. Hopefully this is a breakthrough
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Post by king_carlos Thu 20 Jul 2023 - 16:43

Soul Requiem wrote:
Duty281 wrote:I think the umpire thought it was nicked behind, just wanted to check the catch. Hopeless. Not sure what happens in that circumstance if Australia wanted to review for LBW?

Joel Wilson will also be umpiring the 5th test.

When a batsman is given out the mode of dismissal isn't relevant so both LBW and caught should be checked.

Yep, as per the regs when the fielding side appeals they are asking whether it's out. Not whether it's out a certain way. So all modes of dismissal should be checked on review.

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Post by GSC Thu 20 Jul 2023 - 16:45

I don't know why Mitch Marsh bowling at two set batsmen terrifies me but it does
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England's Summer of Cricket 2023, Featuring The Ashes Empty Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2023, Featuring The Ashes

Post by Marky Thu 20 Jul 2023 - 16:50

Dear Ben,

Please, please don't declare tonight.

Sincerely, Everyone.

Marky

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Post by Soul Requiem Thu 20 Jul 2023 - 16:55

The plan should be to get 500 if possible as quickly as possible then just hope you can bowl them out cheaply.

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Post by GSC Thu 20 Jul 2023 - 16:57

Yeah I don't see how it's going to be easier to knock off to runs quickly later in the match if England set Australia a small deficit
GSC
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Post by compelling and rich Thu 20 Jul 2023 - 16:59

Looking at the forecast think we should be able to get two sessions hopefully tomorrow. Saturday looks a right off if forecast can be trusted. With Sunday a mixed bag but on and off showers. With this in mind bat most of first session tomorrow going hell for leather. Have just over a session at them which will probaby be later on hopefully in decent conditions for bowling. Then hopefully see them off in the small gaps of  play on Sunday

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Post by Marky Thu 20 Jul 2023 - 17:03

I've got to be honest.

I didn't envisage this at 9 for 1 in the third over Laugh

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Post by GSC Thu 20 Jul 2023 - 17:04

Nor Mo having the highest score by a #3 on either side in the whole series
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Post by GSC Thu 20 Jul 2023 - 17:07

Into the lead now. Just under an hour and a half tonight, might be time for some premium bazball
GSC
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