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Scotland - The Generic Moaning Thread 2024

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Post by George Carlin Wed 13 Sep 2023, 8:22 pm

First topic message reminder :

Scotland v Tonga
Sunday, September 24
Stade de Nice - 4.45pm kick-off.

Scotland v Romania
Saturday, September 30
Stade Pierre-Mauroy, Lille - 8pm kick-off

Scotland v Paddy Cousins
Saturday, October 7
Stade de France - 8pm kick-off

***

The 20 teams are divided into four groups as follows:

Pool A – New Zealand, France, Italy, Uruguay, Namibia

Pool B – South Africa, Ireland, Scotland, Tonga, Romania

Pool C – Wales, Australia, Fiji, Georgia, Portugal

Pool D – England, Japan, Argentina, Samoa, Chile

The top two teams from each pool advance to the quarter-finals. The teams who finish third secure automatic qualification for the 2027 World Cup, which is scheduled to take place in Australia in 2027.

The quarter-final draw is as follows:

QF1 – Pool C winner v Pool D runner-up

QF 2 – Pool B winner v Pool A runner-up

QF 3 – Pool D winner v Pool C runner-up

QF 4 – Pool A winner v Pool B runner-up

That means if Scotland manage to progress from the group stages they would be likely to face New Zealand or France in the quarter-finals if results go as expected.

The semi-final draw is as follows:

Winner of QF 1 v Winner of QF2

Winner of QF 3 v Winner of QF 4

The 2023 Rugby World Cup final takes place on Saturday, October 28, at the Stade de France, kick-off 8pm.


Last edited by George Carlin on Tue 30 Jan 2024, 10:46 am; edited 2 times in total
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Post by RDW Mon 16 Oct 2023, 9:08 pm

Tramptastic wrote:Scotlands chosen tactics were so at odds with where their greatest wins have come from in the past decade - a strong kicking game.

Dismantling England in 2018? strong kicking game, manipulating the backfield until space opened and Finn could fire the ball into space. Hogg and Russell dominated the tactical kicking. The same again in 2021, 22 and 23.

The last time Scotland beat Ireland was in 2017. Again, a solid kicking game combined with some neat set piece plays to get points on the board.

France multiple times over the past 5 years. The big wins have come from solid defence, manipulating the backfield and counter attacking when space opens up.

It's frustrating because as soon as those wins happen we think "oh fab, we've got our groove back, its pragmatic but opens up space and allows for silky running and passing into space. This is us." Subsequently Scotland then go on in the next tournament to throw ALL of it out the window and declare "we don't need pragmatism, we have the fastest running rugby of all time".

My favourite Scotland game of the past decade isnt the 38-38 draw at twickenham or even the 6-11 win at twickenham. Its the 25-13 win at home against England. Scotland dominated every facet of play in a mature, physical, dynamic manner and played the ball when it was on. Smart and in control for 80 minutes, they never looked like losing.

So the players can play that way. The coaches can instruct them to play that way. They can win that way. Why the hell, after 2019 RWC, are we STILL trying to play like that? eurgh.

And for all the pundits saying "we cant play like SA or Ireland do because we don't have the player size" - absolute tosh. Our pack weight variance is within the realms of a couple of kilos. Against Ireland our pack was heavier by 5kgs! The boys are large enough, get em coached to be more dynamic in the contact area.


Excellent post! You've summed up my thinking far better than I could.

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Post by BigGee Mon 16 Oct 2023, 9:35 pm

bsando wrote:I’d happily wait for Clark Laidlaw. He seems like a brilliant future option.

Yes, definitely one to watch for the future

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Post by Highland Shaun Mon 16 Oct 2023, 10:42 pm

What's Clark Laidlaw up to nowadays, last I remember of him was when he was ABs 7s coach, the other question is would he take the Scotland job?

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Post by Poorfour Tue 17 Oct 2023, 6:49 am

Tramptastic wrote:Scotlands chosen tactics were so at odds with where their greatest wins have come from in the past decade - a strong kicking game.

Dismantling England in 2018? strong kicking game, manipulating the backfield until space opened and Finn could fire the ball into space. Hogg and Russell dominated the tactical kicking. The same again in 2021, 22 and 23.

The last time Scotland beat Ireland was in 2017. Again, a solid kicking game combined with some neat set piece plays to get points on the board.

France multiple times over the past 5 years. The big wins have come from solid defence, manipulating the backfield and counter attacking when space opens up.

It's frustrating because as soon as those wins happen we think "oh fab, we've got our groove back, its pragmatic but opens up space and allows for silky running and passing into space. This is us." Subsequently Scotland then go on in the next tournament to throw ALL of it out the window and declare "we don't need pragmatism, we have the fastest running rugby of all time".

My favourite Scotland game of the past decade isnt the 38-38 draw at twickenham or even the 6-11 win at twickenham. Its the 25-13 win at home against England. Scotland dominated every facet of play in a mature, physical, dynamic manner and played the ball when it was on. Smart and in control for 80 minutes, they never looked like losing.

So the players can play that way. The coaches can instruct them to play that way. They can win that way. Why the hell, after 2019 RWC, are we STILL trying to play like that? eurgh.

And for all the pundits saying "we cant play like SA or Ireland do because we don't have the player size" - absolute tosh. Our pack weight variance is within the realms of a couple of kilos. Against Ireland our pack was heavier by 5kgs! The boys are large enough, get em coached to be more dynamic in the contact area.

Written like a true back… I would say that that win was also built on recognising that England’s back row were relatively slow and dispersed across the field. Scotland repeatedly allowed England’s big ball carriers an extra yard in the carry, so that they would land behind the Scottish line and give Watson and Ritchie (IIRC) an extra half second to win the turnover. It forced Eddie to rethink England’s breakdown approach and personnel and ultimately led to an RWC Final, so thanks - we needed that.

I’ll also add that you had a wee bit of help from Nige, who forgot that the Laws had changed over the summer and penalised Farrell for holding on when he should have penalised Hogg for entering (as first man in) from the wrong side early in the second half. That was at the end of a promising break from which England would probably have scored and taken the lead without the turnover - something that might have changed the direction of the game.

Still even the best refs make mistakes, even if I appear to be the only person in the world who noticed it.
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Post by Tramptastic Wed 18 Oct 2023, 12:13 pm

Poorfour wrote:
Tramptastic wrote:Scotlands chosen tactics were so at odds with where their greatest wins have come from in the past decade - a strong kicking game.

Dismantling England in 2018? strong kicking game, manipulating the backfield until space opened and Finn could fire the ball into space. Hogg and Russell dominated the tactical kicking. The same again in 2021, 22 and 23.

The last time Scotland beat Ireland was in 2017. Again, a solid kicking game combined with some neat set piece plays to get points on the board.

France multiple times over the past 5 years. The big wins have come from solid defence, manipulating the backfield and counter attacking when space opens up.

It's frustrating because as soon as those wins happen we think "oh fab, we've got our groove back, its pragmatic but opens up space and allows for silky running and passing into space. This is us." Subsequently Scotland then go on in the next tournament to throw ALL of it out the window and declare "we don't need pragmatism, we have the fastest running rugby of all time".

My favourite Scotland game of the past decade isnt the 38-38 draw at twickenham or even the 6-11 win at twickenham. Its the 25-13 win at home against England. Scotland dominated every facet of play in a mature, physical, dynamic manner and played the ball when it was on. Smart and in control for 80 minutes, they never looked like losing.

So the players can play that way. The coaches can instruct them to play that way. They can win that way. Why the hell, after 2019 RWC, are we STILL trying to play like that? eurgh.

And for all the pundits saying "we cant play like SA or Ireland do because we don't have the player size" - absolute tosh. Our pack weight variance is within the realms of a couple of kilos. Against Ireland our pack was heavier by 5kgs! The boys are large enough, get em coached to be more dynamic in the contact area.

Written like a true back… I would say that that win was also built on recognising that England’s back row were relatively slow and dispersed across the field. Scotland repeatedly allowed England’s big ball carriers an extra yard in the carry, so that they would land behind the Scottish line and give Watson and Ritchie (IIRC) an extra half second to win the turnover. It forced Eddie to rethink England’s breakdown approach and personnel and ultimately led to an RWC Final, so thanks - we needed that.

I’ll also add that you had a wee bit of help from Nige, who forgot that the Laws had changed over the summer and penalised Farrell for holding on when he should have penalised Hogg for entering (as first man in) from the wrong side early in the second half. That was at the end of a promising break from which England would probably have scored and taken the lead without the turnover - something that might have changed the direction of the game.

Still even the best refs make mistakes, even if I appear to be the only person in the world who noticed it.

How dare you. I play in the backrow! and the 2nd... and the front... and centre... but never wing!

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Post by RDW Fri 20 Oct 2023, 9:26 pm

Another good win the the woman's team. They've massively developed compared to where they were a few years ago. Woman's sport has massive growth happening just now and it's great we're on the train with it.

Just need the under 20s to follow suit...!

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Post by Highland Shaun Mon 23 Oct 2023, 10:50 pm

Oh well it's club rugby until the 6Ns Sad but it gives us an opportunity to take a stab at what our team may be for that seeing as there could be retirements and new additions to the squad by the end of Feb (is that the start of the 6N time?).

I see Tom Roebuck has been impressive for Sale and Fitz Harding (I'm sure I've read somewhere he's eligible) for Bristol so both of them are contenders to make the squad?

As you can probably tell, I'm getting impatient for international rugby (Scotland wise) to return so my mind will be on either who's eligible or on form for their club, a bit like Rory Hutchinson at Saints etc.

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Post by king_carlos Mon 23 Oct 2023, 11:19 pm

Roebuck was reportedly contacted by Borthwick and Townsend over the summer but wasn't named in eithers training squad before the warmups. There are rumours that Townsend wanted to pick him but he held out for a chance with England. Just rumours at this point though.

He's certainly played well enough at the back end of last season and the start of this one to be in the England frame though. Particularly if May is moved on and Daly switches back to 13 when Marchant becomes unavailable whilst in France.

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Post by Mcsweens Tue 24 Oct 2023, 8:55 am

Tom Roebuck - I was going to say the name reminds me of Bob Cunis, the NZ cricketer from the 1960s. Famously described as "a funny sort of name; neither one thing nor the other".

But then I realised I was thinking of a Doe, rather than a Roe.

Still, a good fellow to neutralise the particular threats of the springboks, no doubt, in place of a 6-2 or 7-1 split. Townsend ever innovating.

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Post by RDW Tue 24 Oct 2023, 10:08 am

One of these days I'd quite like to get to the end of a major Scottish rugby campaign and not have to rename the thread 'post mortem '

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Post by Mcsweens Tue 24 Oct 2023, 12:03 pm

Also, Fitz Harding? Quite the name. I guess Dirk Diggler has already been claimed.

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Post by NeilyBroon Wed 25 Oct 2023, 5:01 pm

RDW wrote:One of these days I'd quite like to get to the end of a major Scottish rugby campaign and not have to rename the thread 'post mortem '

We could take the North Korean approach and rename it

"Reviewing Dear leader Townsend's Glorious Long March to Victory against Romania"


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Post by bsando Fri 27 Oct 2023, 12:58 pm

king_carlos wrote:Roebuck was reportedly contacted by Borthwick and Townsend over the summer but wasn't named in eithers training squad before the warmups. There are rumours that Townsend wanted to pick him but he held out for a chance with England. Just rumours at this point though.

He's certainly played well enough at the back end of last season and the start of this one to be in the England frame though. Particularly if May is moved on and Daly switches back to 13 when Marchant becomes unavailable whilst in France.

If true that he is holding out for England then please keep him. Redpath had a strong link to Scotland and losing him would have been pretty gutting. Roebuck as I’m aware was born in Inverness… these are the type of selections I’m not a fan of now we have a better side. We need to give our own brood a chance and avoid chasing these types of player, no matter how promising they may appear. I’m still all for catching players like VDM, Schoeman, etc who commit and show passion to Edinburgh and Scotland. Those who play the game however are best avoided if you ask me. That is more down to Townsend than the player.

Enquiry failed, good that he asked, move on.

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Post by king_carlos Fri 27 Oct 2023, 6:48 pm

bsando wrote:
king_carlos wrote:Roebuck was reportedly contacted by Borthwick and Townsend over the summer but wasn't named in eithers training squad before the warmups. There are rumours that Townsend wanted to pick him but he held out for a chance with England. Just rumours at this point though.

He's certainly played well enough at the back end of last season and the start of this one to be in the England frame though. Particularly if May is moved on and Daly switches back to 13 when Marchant becomes unavailable whilst in France.

If true that he is holding out for England then please keep him. Redpath had a strong link to Scotland and losing him would have been pretty gutting. Roebuck as I’m aware was born in Inverness… these are the type of selections I’m not a fan of now we have a better side. We need to give our own brood a chance and avoid chasing these types of player, no matter how promising they may appear. I’m still all for catching players like VDM, Schoeman, etc who commit and show passion to Edinburgh and Scotland. Those who play the game however are best avoided if you ask me. That is more down to Townsend than the player.

Enquiry failed, good that he asked, move on.
As said, just rumour. Reports from usually on the point journalists was that Townsend and Borthwick both contacted him. Then there were murmurs that Toonie offered a squad place. One of the Edinburgh season ticket holders I heard that from usually knows his stuff to be fair. He's repeatedly called transfer rumours as correct or nonsense earlier than the pundits/journalists do and been on the button. Even the usually informed gets thing wrong though. For instance, that same pal had heard that Luke Cowan-Dickie was definitely retiring due to injury and he's popped up at Sale.

I understand the sentiment though.

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Post by BigGee Fri 27 Oct 2023, 6:57 pm

I would be surprised if he had been offerred a squad place. We were not badly off for wingers and Toonie did not overload even the original squad.

I am sure they have been in contact with him he is a good player. He'll likely have to make the decision for real in the not to distant future.

Good luck to him in whoever he chooses.

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Post by king_carlos Fri 27 Oct 2023, 7:09 pm

That original 41-man training squad from Toonie was something that actually added some credence to the rumours for me. It only contained the three standout wingers in such a big squad. Duhan, Darcy and Steyn. That did make me wonder if Toonie had tapped up Roebuck as a someone to look at closer as a reserve option.

I really thought Jack Blain might be the real deal when he broke through with Edinburgh a couple of seasons ago. It just never quite happened though.

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Post by BigGee Fri 27 Oct 2023, 7:18 pm

Toonie largely stuck to the tried and tested on that squad, no real bolters, which is unusual for him.

He did say he wanted to keep it tight and did not really want any passengers who had no chance of going.

He had a pretty good idea of the squad he wanted and only had a few others along as injury cover.

It would have been a big step to bring in someone like Roebuck, who would have been so left field, especially at that stage.

Let's wait and see, it would not surprise me at all if he is in one of the 6N squads next January.

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Post by jimbopip Fri 17 Nov 2023, 2:46 pm

I just read this in an article about Fin Smith,

Both his parents, a lawyer and a nurse respectively, are Scottish and his grandfather, Tom Elliot, a Borders farmer, propped for Gala, Scotland and the British & Irish Lions. “The Scotland thing is something I could turn to in the future but, for now, I’m doing my best to hopefully get into the England squad and get picked one day for them.”

He better hope he gets an England cap...with that attitude he shouldn't be considered for Scotland.

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Post by Tramptastic Fri 17 Nov 2023, 2:50 pm

Bearing in mind Jimbo that young players playing in England are more likely to get picked if they are seen as English first, other nationalities 2nd. This may be just lip service. If he genuinely does see Scotland as back up then i'd agree with you.

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Post by Anglobraveheart Sat 18 Nov 2023, 7:07 am

jimbopip wrote:I just read this in an article about Fin Smith,

Both his parents, a lawyer and a nurse respectively, are Scottish and his grandfather, Tom Elliot, a Borders farmer, propped for Gala, Scotland and the British & Irish Lions. “The Scotland thing is something I could turn to in the future but, for now, I’m doing my best to hopefully get into the England squad and get picked one day for them.”

He better hope he gets an England cap...with that attitude he shouldn't be considered for Scotland.

Cam Rwdpath anyone?

Just playing devil's advocate.

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Post by king_carlos Sat 18 Nov 2023, 10:53 am

Smith is another it's been rumoured got offered a squad place over the summer and turned it down. No way to know if that's more than speculation though.

I sympathise with players who feel genuine allegiance to two countries though. I was born in England, moved all over growing up due to my dad being in the forces. I spent my secondary schooling in Yorkshire, primarily support England in sport as that's what I grew up with but my mums side of the family are all Scottish. We'd come to Dumfries and Galloway for holidays, I worked on the family farm there many summers growing up once I was old enough to get paid, I moved to Edinburgh for Uni out of school and I've been in Scotland my entire adult life. My main team is England and club side is Tiger but I also held a season ticket at Edinburgh, have been to many more Murrayfield games than Twickenham, played at Heriots for years and as such know many guys that went on to Scotland caps. When Scotland are playing my support for them goes far beyond a normal neutral with a slight leaning to one side situation. I've followed and supported many of these players from teenagers.

Were I to magically develop athletic ability and a work ethic in my thirties, then have a shot at international rugby I would have a very hard decision to make if Scotland offered first despite England being the team I primarily support. I think it is possible to feel a genuine connection to two nations rather than it being an entirely career based, "being an international will boost my career", type of decision.

Sione Tuipulotu's interview before the RWC on the matter was a fantastic one.

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Post by BigGee Sat 18 Nov 2023, 12:03 pm

Nationality is massively complicated as KC says.

My kids qualify for 3 countries and have a genuine affilistion to all of them. It seems unlikely they will have a dilemma about international sport but it would be difficult if they did.

As well as the pull of your feelings about nstionality and identity, you have also got to remember these young men are professional sportsmen and also have to make the best decesions for their careers.

Finn Smith is pretty established now, so it probably does not apply to him any more, but other youngsters, who need professional contracts need to be mindful about who they declare for. Those of us who are not playing for a living, maybe don't get thst to the same extent. They also, further down the line, as we all do, have to make the best decesions to ensure their careers progress, circumstance play a massive role in this.

For what it is worth, I suspect Smith has made up his mind and it sounds like he is in Borthwick's view now.

I just hope he does not get a token cap to tie him in and be left wondering what if.

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Post by Mcsweens Sat 18 Nov 2023, 6:55 pm

I think a lot of Anglo Scots youngsters have it drummed into them that it's much easier to get a squad place for their club if they declare for England / don't declare for Scotland etc, as RFU funding is partially based on the international composition of a club squad. Not sure if that's still the case, but it was a factor in Vellacott's positioning for a while down in Glaws. Smith is probably now well established enough for this not to be factor though.

Also just the fact that England players get 2-3x more money in match fees. If Eddie Jones rings up the likes of Gary Graham or Redpath, and offers them a training squad place, what are you going to say?

One solution would be for the SRU not to have been so financially incompetent 20 years ago, and kept a third team going, allowing us to be more proactive in our pursuit of players like Smith. I keep saying it, but there's more than enough interest North of the Forth to support 10-12 professional games across a season, even if split between different locations.

It's sad when a talented youngster - and one of considerable pedigree  - gets away, but it's fair to say we more than make up for that with other raids of our own.

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Post by BigGee Sat 18 Nov 2023, 7:12 pm

Hmm, if we had kept 3 teams going, I very much doubt we would be putting an offer on the table that would be attractive to  the likes of Finn Smith.

Even with 2 pro sides and the highest turnover we have ever had  we were still 10 million in the red last season.

Ultimately FS will declare for Scotland if he feels that it is his best chance of regular international rugby.

That is not currently guaranteed whoever he declares for.

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Post by RiscaGame Sun 19 Nov 2023, 1:33 am

I know it’s taboo here, but seeing as SRU keep on paying more budget for two teams instead of the WRU with four, there is no way that anybody can complain about poor RU ownership , bar Wales. 

How many Unions saddled their supply chain with debt? Or picked a fixture in the middle of when internationals were recovering?

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Post by bsando Mon 20 Nov 2023, 12:39 pm

Healy for me is a much better player, so even if smith did swap to Scotland he’d be third or fourth choice. He would need a few more seasons to establish himself before he got some more meaningful game time. Injuries could play a part, but Scotland don’t really need another fly half for the upcoming six nations with Russell, Healy and Kinghorn all firmly established.

Then you look at England, they’re crying out for a player like Fin Smith.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Wed 22 Nov 2023, 10:43 am

bsando wrote:Healy for me is a much better player, so even if smith did swap to Scotland he’d be third or fourth choice. He would need a few more seasons to establish himself before he got some more meaningful game time. Injuries could play a part, but Scotland don’t really need another fly half for the upcoming six nations with Russell, Healy and Kinghorn all firmly established.

Then you look at England, they’re crying out for a player like Fin Smith.

Not really giving he's in a similar mold to George Ford but at 21 doesn't quite control the game as well as Ford does. By the time the next world cup comes round he might well be a very key player. By then Fin will be 25 and should be heading into his prime years for the next two world cups.

Not sure Healy is a much better player to be honest. He's further along in his development (expected giving the age difference) so he's a better fit for Scotland and international rugby now. Were one to replace the other there wouldn't be a significant step down. Given Fin Smith is a very reliable goal kicker and has dropped into the prem's best attack replacing a Lions 10 with minimal drop in output you've got a very bright talent who's showing a lot after nearly 60 first team games with potential of more to come.

I'm fully expecting England to cap him in the England A squad game Vs Portugal so that he's tied for most of the next cycle because he's one of the most exciting young talents at 10 in the UK currently.

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Post by BigGee Thu 23 Nov 2023, 9:43 am

If anyone is thinking about going to see the Italy v Scotland game in Rome next march, a highly recommended trip, tickets are currently being heavily discounted on a Black Friday promo.

We just picked up 110 euro seats for 75 euros. There are a good variety of prices of tickets available still around the ground, it does not usually sell out.

Plane tickets are very expensive to Rome over that weekend but again, there are alternatives. Flying to Milan or Naples, where we are going to, is much cheaper and Italian high speed trains are very fast and cheap compared to what we are used to paying.

You could of course just take a longer break in Italy which is also never a bad option!

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Post by Mcsweens Fri 24 Nov 2023, 10:21 am

BigGee wrote:If anyone is thinking about going to see the Italy v Scotland game in Rome next march, a highly recommended trip, tickets are currently being heavily discounted on a Black Friday promo.

We just picked up 110 euro seats for 75 euros. There are a good variety of prices of tickets available still around the ground, it does not usually sell out.

Plane tickets are very expensive to Rome over that weekend but again, there are alternatives. Flying to Milan or Naples, where we are going to, is much cheaper and Italian high speed trains are very fast and cheap compared to what we are used to paying.

You could of course just take a longer break in Italy which is also never a bad option!

I fully endorse the "fly to anywhere in Italy and then take the train" idea. Trains in Italy are cheap and, at least compared to over here, an absolute joy.

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Post by BigGee Mon 27 Nov 2023, 4:45 pm

The first coaching change of Toonie's new regime is probably the least surprising.

Pete Horne moves permanently into the Scotland set up from Glasgow. He seems to have been doing a decent job in both roles so, hopefully he can improve things by concentrating on one job.

Franco seems to have started the season well in any case and will likely find someone to fill the gap at Scotstoun.

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Post by bsando Mon 27 Nov 2023, 8:09 pm

Good move! No need to recruit an expensive attack coach. I think he’ll probably do a decent job. Considering his size he was always punching above his weight for Glasgow and Scotland as a player. He may well do even better as a coach.

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Post by Mcsweens Sat 02 Dec 2023, 12:00 am

Sean Lamont's name has been added to the class action lawsuit currently winding through the courts. Also, Kieran Lowe, perhaps less surprisingly.

I think these are the first confirmed Scottish participants.

Looking at the names, its possible that there was a very dangerous time for players when between say 2000 and 2015 gains around physical conditioning and explosiveness  became professionalised, and far outpaced the still amateur attitudes towards concussion.

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Post by BigGee Sat 02 Dec 2023, 12:23 am

Sean or Rory Lamont?

It was Rory who had all the documented concussion incidents

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Post by RDW Sat 02 Dec 2023, 12:24 am

Sean Lamont according to BBC

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Post by EWT Spoons Mon 04 Dec 2023, 9:30 am

Based upon Rory's anti vax, conspiracy theory posts on social media, he might want to get himself checked out as well

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Post by Tramptastic Mon 04 Dec 2023, 11:37 am

EWT Spoons wrote:Based upon Rory's anti vax, conspiracy theory posts on social media, he might want to get himself checked out as well

Only just noticed his new line of work. "This generation of Men have been left behind in a post-masculine world". Very Fight Club, Very New Age Fascist. Wonderful.

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Post by BigGee Mon 04 Dec 2023, 11:54 am

Tramptastic wrote:
EWT Spoons wrote:Based upon Rory's anti vax, conspiracy theory posts on social media, he might want to get himself checked out as well

Only just noticed his new line of work. "This generation of Men have been left behind in a post-masculine world". Very Fight Club, Very New Age Fascist. Wonderful.


Yes Rory certainly is an interesting character.

You do wonder what kind of person he would have become, had he not been a professional rugby player? Either way, the game does not seem to have done him any favours, albeit he was one of the guinea pigs of the professional rugby experiment. You might hope that if he had become a pro now, he could have coped with it a lot better.

It will always remain a bit of a strange world being a professional sportsperson though and a uniquely difficult thing for ex players to transition away from.

If you read the concussion thread, there is a very good article by Brian Moore, with his legal hat on as well as a rugby players. One of the things he points out, which might make the potential litigation against the rugby authorities difficult. is the many instances of other sports people, from non contact sports, who also suffer poor health, both mental and physical, once they retire from their sports. It s not an uncommon phenonium at all.

You might suspect that Rory Lamont would not do to well in a court being cross examined, with his views on many issues. Maybe that is why it is Sean and not him who has signed up to the action.

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Post by George Carlin Mon 04 Dec 2023, 3:13 pm

I'm glad I'm not on social media (this old man's forum doesn't count).

Rory Lamont was a wonderful player whose career was cut sadly short. I don't need to know that he's now daft as a brush and screaming his conspiracy theory, virtue signalling queef into the void.

I'm still annoyed that Joe Ansbro had to retire. Please don't tell me he's on X having undergone gender realignment.
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Post by Tramptastic Mon 04 Dec 2023, 3:46 pm

Nah, the Ansbro family are... eccentric? but Joe is way normal (he's now a teacher)

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Post by RDW Mon 04 Dec 2023, 8:41 pm

Speaking of douchebag ex pros, Hoggy has never publicly responded to the Sun's allegations but has instead opted for the medium of 'woe is me' style inspirational quotes on social media saying he has been so badly done by. Apparently he's completely misunderstood, people aren't interested in the truth only what they want to hear, he's only going to surround himself with positive energy etc etc 

vomit

Get in the bin.

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Post by BigGee Mon 04 Dec 2023, 8:50 pm

RDW wrote:Speaking of douchebag ex pros, Hoggy has never publicly responded to the Sun's allegations but has instead opted for the medium of 'woe is me' style inspirational quotes on social media saying he has been so badly done by. Apparently he's completely misunderstood, people aren't interested in the truth only what they want to hear, he's only going to surround himself with positive energy etc etc 

vomit

Get in the bin.


You and Stuart clearly not exchanging Christmas Cards this year then?

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Post by RDW Mon 04 Dec 2023, 9:57 pm

Ha TBF I'm pretty relaxed on the whole thing, just disappointed with what's happened and his attitude (although not surprised at the latter).

Mrs RDW on the other hand is very much Team Gil on this - Hoggy is dead to her!

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Post by Tramptastic Tue 05 Dec 2023, 9:06 am

It's possible to hold 2 opinions on Hogg that are inherently different and yet both true:

1) Talent of a generation, best fullback to ever where the shirt for Scotland, inspiring in his play and his dedication to the shirt to the point where he spent his last 2 seasons playing in non stop pain. His first start was the beginning of Scotlands turnaround from awful in every sense of the word to joyous to watch, albeit, with no trophies beyond the calcutta cup to show for it

2) Serial adulterer, talks about mental and emotional health but inflicts THAT on his wife and goes public when shes pregnant with the 3rd child?! Cutting so loose during the Riding that it makes it to Reddit of all places before the papers pick it up. I know folks are entitled to their private lives but it's all the stereotypically worst parts of successful sportsman brought to the fore by a generational, inspiring talent. Disappointing to say the least.

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Post by jimbopip Tue 05 Dec 2023, 9:55 am

Tramptastic wrote:Nah, the Ansbro family are... eccentric? but Joe is way normal (he's now a teacher)

As a retired teacher I can spot the logical inconsistency in that statement. Whistle

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Post by George Carlin Tue 05 Dec 2023, 11:54 am

RDW wrote:Speaking of douchebag ex pros, Hoggy has never publicly responded to the Sun's allegations but has instead opted for the medium of 'woe is me' style inspirational quotes on social media saying he has been so badly done by. Apparently he's completely misunderstood, people aren't interested in the truth only what they want to hear, he's only going to surround himself with positive energy etc etc 

vomit

Get in the bin.
I'm going to lose my excrement if I read one more person talking about 'their' truth.

There's 'the' truth and then there's what you think about it. Why is this difficult to understand? You can have your own centre of consciousness eminating from your pea brain and your soup of self selecting biases but you cannot have your own facts.

Objectively, Hoggy started running around with a much younger version of his wife and then thought it was fine to display that on social media as though he just won a watch at a fairground. If he'd have been my son in law I would have gone round to his house with a bat and no ball.
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Post by Tramptastic Tue 05 Dec 2023, 1:46 pm

jimbopip wrote:
Tramptastic wrote:Nah, the Ansbro family are... eccentric? but Joe is way normal (he's now a teacher)

As a retired teacher I can spot the logical inconsistency in that statement. Whistle

In the context of "At least he's not doing a Fight Club"?

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Post by Tramptastic Tue 05 Dec 2023, 1:49 pm

George Carlin wrote:
RDW wrote:Speaking of douchebag ex pros, Hoggy has never publicly responded to the Sun's allegations but has instead opted for the medium of 'woe is me' style inspirational quotes on social media saying he has been so badly done by. Apparently he's completely misunderstood, people aren't interested in the truth only what they want to hear, he's only going to surround himself with positive energy etc etc 

vomit

Get in the bin.
I'm going to lose my excrement if I read one more person talking about 'their' truth.

There's 'the' truth and then there's what you think about it. Why is this difficult to understand? You can have your own centre of consciousness eminating from your pea brain and your soup of self selecting biases but you cannot have your own facts.

Objectively, Hoggy started running around with a much younger version of his wife and then thought it was fine to display that on social media as though he just won a watch at a fairground. If he'd have been my son in law I would have gone round to his house with a bat and no ball.

If you get caught during the Riding with yer breeks around yer ankles undergoing yer own Riding... supposedly caught by close family members too Shocked

But thats probably just an escalation of small town rumours. Probably.

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Post by EWT Spoons Tue 05 Dec 2023, 2:02 pm

Tramptastic wrote:
George Carlin wrote:
RDW wrote:Speaking of douchebag ex pros, Hoggy has never publicly responded to the Sun's allegations but has instead opted for the medium of 'woe is me' style inspirational quotes on social media saying he has been so badly done by. Apparently he's completely misunderstood, people aren't interested in the truth only what they want to hear, he's only going to surround himself with positive energy etc etc 

vomit

Get in the bin.
I'm going to lose my excrement if I read one more person talking about 'their' truth.

There's 'the' truth and then there's what you think about it. Why is this difficult to understand? You can have your own centre of consciousness eminating from your pea brain and your soup of self selecting biases but you cannot have your own facts.

Objectively, Hoggy started running around with a much younger version of his wife and then thought it was fine to display that on social media as though he just won a watch at a fairground. If he'd have been my son in law I would have gone round to his house with a bat and no ball.

If you get caught during the Riding with yer breeks around yer ankles undergoing yer own Riding... supposedly caught by close family members too Shocked

But thats probably just an escalation of small town rumours. Probably.

Given this took place in the borders, it would be more of a story if it wasn't close family members.

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Post by RDW Tue 05 Dec 2023, 8:18 pm

Laugh

So anyway....6N isn't far away! Any bolters out there?

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Post by BigGee Tue 05 Dec 2023, 8:26 pm

Andy Christie, hardly a bolter, seems to be ripping up trees in the Prem atm. He will be pushing hard for the matchday squad you would imagine. Ritchie, againgst Ulster, showed how effective he can be at OS, which definitely throws a few more permutations into the mix.

Other than that, you might fancy Gus Ware at Sale, who has been subject to SRU interest apparently. With Dobie injured, he could fill the SH space in the squad and challenge for a cap.

There will also, of course, be someone we have bever heard of. At the begining of a WC cycle, a little bit of experimentstion is to be expected and encouraged.

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