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Leinster Rugby 2023/24 Season

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Post by Pot Hale Wed Sep 20, 2023 6:52 am

Another season rolls around with familiar faces, some missing ones, and 5 new ones promoted from the academy - McKee, Russell, Soroka, Barron, and Prendergast.

The senior squad numbers 44 players:

Props (7)
Michael Ala'alatoa, Ed Byrne, Tom Clarkson, Tadhg Furlong, Cian Healy, Michael Milne, Andrew Porter
Hookers (4)
Lee Barron, Rónan Kelleher, John McKee, Dan Sheehan
Locks (6)
Ryan Baird, Brian Deeny, Jason Jenkins, Joe McCarthy, Ross Molony, James Ryan
Back row (9)
Jack Conan, Will Connors, Max Deegan, Caelan Doris, Martin Moloney, Scott Penny, Rhys Ruddock (vc), Alex Soroka, Josh van der Flier
Scrum-halves (3)
Cormac Foley, Jamison Gibson-Park, Luke McGrath
Fly-halves (3)
Harry Byrne, Ross Byrne, Sam Prendergast
Centres (6)
Ciarán Frawley, Robbie Henshaw, Charlie Ngatai, Jamie Osborne, Garry Ringrose, Liam Turner
Wings (4)
Jordan Larmour, James Lowe, Tommy O'Brien, Rob Russell
Fullbacks (2)
Hugo Keenan, Jimmy O'Brien

With a good number of them (18) on RWC duty, there'll be a lot of pressure on the second and third rank players to deliver results all the way up to end-November.  In the prop stocks, with Healy out injured, that leaves 3 props available with possibly Alaalatoa returning sooner unless Samoa make it into the knockout rounds at the RWC.  
Barron and McKee will have to hold the fort at hooker.
Deeny, Jenkins and Molony are just enough for a match-day squad at lock.
Plenty of capacity for the back-row with 6 available
Foley/McGrath at scrum-half and Byrne/Prendergast will be the bare minimum needed for the half-backs
There's room to spare in the centres with 4 available and Frawley as an option for 10
And Larmour, T O'Brien and Russell are the bare minimum for the back 3.  

An injury or two is going to require a few players to be able to play utility.

The revised planning permission for RDS redevelopment has been passed so it's likely that work can finally get started on the new stand to replace the creaking Anglesea stand, but that may not happen until knock-out stages of competitions - assuming Leinster are in them.
Leo has signed up for two more years and Nienaber will arrive in with his defensive coaching skills after he wraps up with South Africa at RWC.

It's going to be an interesting season, and possibly one that will see a period of stagnation/regression with so many players absent due to RWC.
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Post by thebandwagonsociety Thu Sep 21, 2023 4:33 am

Period of stagnation but also an opportunity for some of the newly promoted to the senior squad and also the older heads in the academy to step up too.
I like O'Tigherneagh (spelling a shambles i'm sure).... that Conor fella the lock. He has been great at underage for Ireland for a couple of seasons. That makes four full time lock options. Deegan or Rhys could pack down in the second row if needed too.

I like the crop that have just come out of the academy.
I think Frawley, if he stays injury free, revels in the upcoming games. He has the skill and the brain for higher level rugby, but maybe not the body to survive being on that field?

Also, Gunne as a scrum half option is really strong and ready to step into senior games.

A good run of games with this crop (hopefully a good run of games because Ireland manage to progress at the rwc... we'll see) and them getting the full attention of the coaching set up. I think this could be good. The results might not be. But I think the Leinster set up improves these players.

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Post by mikey_dragon Fri Sep 22, 2023 11:49 am

Just curious and I can't quite seem to remember... When SA last travelled to Ireland to play, didn't they call up Jason Jenkins? Someone on WOL seems sure he is WQ through his dad and because he last played for SA in 2018. I have a feeling he was called up to play and give some insight on Ireland in 2022 though (a role which has now passed to Jean Kleyn).

EDIT*

https://amp.rugbypass.com/news/springboks-explain-recall-of-jason-jenkins-last-capped-in-2018/ - I knew I didn’t imagine it. I checked the fixtures/results and there is no record of him featuring though so I’m still holding out hope. I realise I also sound a bit desperate, before anyone points it out.

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Post by Pot Hale Sun Oct 22, 2023 4:04 pm

Interesting first game of the URC season for Leinster against a more experienced match day squad that was always likely to prevail given a home game and RWC players in the Clyde River side.

For Leinster, the raw recruits and academy players will have benefited from it and players like Prendergast and Boyle in particular enjoyed the run out. Not getting any match points will serve as a useful lesson for the squad and almost thankfully no distractions of an unbeaten season run going forward.

Harry Byrne looked confident and kicked well off the tee. Remains to be seen if he will do enough to get ahead of elder brother Ross for some of the bigger season defining games that lie ahead.

The pack needs more work, grunt and guile given their parlous return against a test-experienced Scotland pack. Although they fared better at the lineout.

Tommy O’Brien could yet develop into a test candidate and a run of games in this first batch of the season will help.

Looking forward to the first home game against Sharks.
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Post by westisbest Sun Oct 22, 2023 4:22 pm

Wonder how much Jamie Osborne will feature?

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Post by thebandwagonsociety Mon Oct 23, 2023 3:28 am

Pot Hale wrote:Interesting first game of the URC season for Leinster against a more experienced match day squad that was always likely to prevail given a home game and RWC players in the Clyde River side.

For Leinster, the raw recruits and academy players will have benefited from it and players like Prendergast and Boyle in particular enjoyed the run out.  Not getting any match points will serve as a useful lesson for the squad and almost thankfully no distractions of an unbeaten season run going forward.  

Harry Byrne looked confident and kicked well off the tee.   Remains to be seen if he will do enough to get ahead of elder brother Ross for some of the bigger season defining games that lie ahead.

The pack needs more work, grunt and guile given their parlous return against a test-experienced Scotland pack.  Although they fared better at the lineout.  

Tommy O’Brien could yet develop into a test candidate and a run of games in this first batch of the season will help.  

Looking forward to the first home game against Sharks.  

It's an interesting squad to start the season. I thought we were naive at times. The occasions where a bouncing ball or a fly hack just gets every Leinster player stopping and looking at each other. They need to develop a switch in their head that when that that kind of unexpected happens they need to get more alert, as it's a key match moment, rather than stand still and wait to be taken advantage of.

Also the Turner no-try in the corner, new law apparently, if player has part of their body over the line then they are out, I guess contact with the out-of-bounds area is no longer required. That was never going to be given. So why go through 5 hours of non-replays as the ref just looks at his own image on the big screen. Say in-touch straight away and just get on with the game.

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Post by Pot Hale Wed Oct 25, 2023 4:42 am

The IRFU, in conjunction with Leinster Rugby, Connacht Rugby and Rugby Players Ireland, are launching a pilot scheme called PathFinder to identify and support High Performance coaching talent.

The IRFU have recognised the need to create greater levels of transparency and accessibility with regard to High Performance coaching career opportunities.

PathFinder is a future focused talent initiative designed to identify, confirm and integrate new coaching talent within and across the IRFU’s High Performance structure.

The long term vision is to create an on-going supply of diverse and dynamic High Performance coaching talent.

Initially a limited number of successful candidates will be provided with financial and mentorship support to complete a placement with a minimum commitment of 120 hours designed to test and confirm future career feasibility.

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Post by Pot Hale Sun Oct 29, 2023 5:43 am

That was better from Cullen's Cubs - held up well and the young ones when they came on in the second half got us the bonus point in the end.

Still outside the top half but more positive signs - bigger matches still to come in the next few weeks.
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Post by thebandwagonsociety Tue Oct 31, 2023 7:14 am

Pot Hale wrote:That was better from Cullen's Cubs - held up well and the young ones when they came on in the second half got us the bonus point in the end.

Still outside the top half but more positive signs - bigger matches still to come in the next few weeks.

If we're batting .500 after four/six rounds we'll be in good shape for the season. So 1-1 after the two rounds, with that loss being on the road to Glasgow who brought back their internationals for that fixture. Leinster have some really inexperienced youth getting game time and even between these two rounds you can see improvement in the players stepping up to URC level. Lots of silver lining.

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Post by Pot Hale Wed Nov 01, 2023 6:14 am

Mike Ala'alatoa finishes his 3-year contract this season and is heading for Clermont at end of June.

It frees up another NIQ spot with Abdaladze having left in the summer. Jenkins (27) and Ngatai (33) NIQ contracts also due to finish next June.


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Post by thebandwagonsociety Wed Nov 01, 2023 8:41 am

Pot Hale wrote:Mike Ala'alatoa finishes his 3-year contract this season and is heading for Clermont at end of June.

It frees up another NIQ spot with Abdaladze having left in the summer.   Jenkins (27) and Ngatai (33) NIQ contracts also due to finish next June.


Clermont will be a good move for him. I wouldn't mind Jenkins getting an extension but wonder if Wales or SA come calling to cap him? Ngatai has been a decent servant and you need that kind of veteran when the test level players are out to boss the backline when it's full of youngsters. I think he gets expensive though or picks up a 2 year contract somewhere. Rhys and Molony will now take the pack leader roles for the foreseeable future.
Most of this is an opportunity for the academy players to step up.

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Post by mikey_dragon Wed Nov 01, 2023 2:39 pm

FYI on that tour I referenced, Jenkins played for SA 'a' versus Munster, as they are a provincial team I'm not sure that will tie him to SA? He comes across as very proudly South African, like Jean Kleyn...

Abdaladze would have been a steal for another URC team but most of them (especially the Welsh) were napping. Will Leinster replace those with more NIQs, or are they relying on homegrown talent? It seemed like had 3 competitive teams last season. You could try and get that guy back from Exeter too now that they've made him a decent pro.

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Post by Pot Hale Thu Nov 02, 2023 1:25 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:FYI on that tour I referenced, Jenkins played for SA 'a' versus Munster, as they are a provincial team I'm not sure that will tie him to SA? He comes across as very proudly South African, like Jean Kleyn...

Abdaladze would have been a steal for another URC team but most of them (especially the Welsh) were napping. Will Leinster replace those with more NIQs, or are they relying on homegrown talent? It seemed like had 3 competitive teams last season. You could try and get that guy back from Exeter too now that they've made him a decent pro.

Not sure if Jenkins is likely to feature for a test call-up. He has no ties to Ireland and I'm not sure residency would allow him to re-qualify for another country since his Springbok cap in June 2018.

Abdaladze was always likely to go to France with greater ties/liinks to Georgia now that he's been capped.

Regarding NIQs, the national propping stocks look a bit watery and thin. Can they afford to bring in another NIQ prop? Healy has just about this season left in him and has already picked up a minor injury. Jack Boyle is in his final academy year so he might fit the bill at LH alongside Michael Milne, and possibly Porter moves back across to TH. Clarkson is the only other nominated TH in the senior squad but his development/ performance looks uncertain, albeit he's only 23 and has 25 appearances under his belt.

Furlong's central contract comes up for renewal this season and it will be telling how much the IRFU want him to stay and/or what offers he might receive elsewhere - he ain't no spring chicken. And neither is Bealham who's just signed a renewal contract for 2 years with Connacht.






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Post by LeinsterFan4life Thu Nov 02, 2023 2:20 pm

Pot Hale wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:FYI on that tour I referenced, Jenkins played for SA 'a' versus Munster, as they are a provincial team I'm not sure that will tie him to SA? He comes across as very proudly South African, like Jean Kleyn...

Abdaladze would have been a steal for another URC team but most of them (especially the Welsh) were napping. Will Leinster replace those with more NIQs, or are they relying on homegrown talent? It seemed like had 3 competitive teams last season. You could try and get that guy back from Exeter too now that they've made him a decent pro.

Not sure if Jenkins is likely to feature for a test call-up.   He has no ties to Ireland and I'm not sure residency would allow him to re-qualify for another country since his Springbok cap in June 2018.

Abdaladze was always likely to go to France with greater ties/liinks to Georgia now that he's been capped.

Regarding NIQs, the national propping stocks look a bit watery and thin.   Can they afford to bring in another NIQ prop?  Healy has just about this season left in him and has already picked up a minor injury.  Jack Boyle is in his final academy year so he might fit the bill at LH alongside Michael Milne, and possibly Porter moves back across to TH.  Clarkson is the only other nominated TH in the senior squad but his development/ performance looks uncertain, albeit he's only 23 and has 25 appearances under his belt.

Furlong's central contract comes up for renewal this season and it will be telling how much the IRFU want him to stay and/or what offers he might receive elsewhere - he ain't no spring chicken.  And neither is Bealham who's just signed a renewal contract for 2 years with Connacht.






 You have to have ties to the nation you want to swap over to (i.e be born there, parents from there etc etc), so he can't ever play for Ireland. He's also a bit off test standard anyway.

In terms of the prop situation, it's not looking great. We are feeling the effects of both Salanoa and Aungier being moved elsewhere at the same time, that has had a major impact on depth. it's simply impossible to continually keep producing home grown test/European standard squads, we should expect to see us fall away a bit from the ridiculous highs of recent years.

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Post by geoff999rugby Thu Nov 02, 2023 4:24 pm

Under the age of 30 O'Toole seems the only decent Irish TH around - we desperately need others to come through.
I think by default Furlough and Bealham will still be vital for a couple of years

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Post by Pot Hale Thu Nov 02, 2023 7:42 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:Under the age of 30 O'Toole seems the only decent Irish TH around - we desperately need others to come through.
I think by default Furlough and Bealham will still be vital for a couple of years

Furlough is a fortuitous misspelling because that's what he seems to be on for the last while.

Unless there's some IQ foreign born prop out there that we don't know about the prop depth chart looks very weak.

From a quick glance across the four provinces, the picture looks like this:

TH
Furlong
Bealham
O'Toole

Salanoa
Clarkson
Aungier
Knox
Moore


LH
Porter
Healy
Kilcoyne
Loughman

O'Sullivan
J Wycherley
Milne
E Byrne
Boyle
Illo
Donnelly
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Post by thebandwagonsociety Fri Nov 03, 2023 5:31 am

Pot Hale wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:Under the age of 30 O'Toole seems the only decent Irish TH around - we desperately need others to come through.
I think by default Furlough and Bealham will still be vital for a couple of years

Furlough is a fortuitous misspelling because that's what he seems to be on for the last while.  

Unless there's some IQ foreign born prop out there that we don't know about the prop depth chart looks very weak.

From a quick glance across the four provinces, the picture looks like this:

TH
Furlong
Bealham
O'Toole

Salanoa
Clarkson
Aungier
Knox
Moore


LH
Porter
Healy
Kilcoyne
Loughman

O'Sullivan
J Wycherley
Milne
E Byrne
Boyle
Illo
Donnelly

When it's set out like that, Shifting Healy to TH for final season and maybe Porter switching over too for a lot of games starts to make sense.

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Post by geoff999rugby Fri Nov 03, 2023 6:40 am

Furlough Very Happy

Whats Andy Warwick done to deserve not being included ?
He may not be International standard but Id back him against most of the LH props listed.
Not least he is above O'Sullivan in the Ulster pecking order

If Furlong, Bealham and O'Toole contrived to be injured at the same time I'd pick a fit Moore above all others.
Technically far superior to any of the alternatives

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Post by Pot Hale Sat Nov 04, 2023 1:12 pm

Leinster close it out against Edinburgh to secure a BP win. The introduction of most of the bench between 54 and 59 minutes derailed the defensive cohesion and allowed Edinburgh to come back strongly but Harry Byrne and Sam Prendergast managed the game well enough.

Good experience for the newbies who got another run-out with Boyle doing well at loosehead.
Rob Russell has a fine boot on him and after he came on from bench kicked a superb defensive 22 kick towards the end at a narrow angle. Tommy O'Brien had another fine game on the wing and scored a nice try.
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Post by Maine man Sat Nov 04, 2023 2:33 pm

Pot Hale wrote:Leinster close it out against Edinburgh to secure a BP win.   The introduction of most of the bench between 54 and 59 minutes derailed the defensive cohesion and allowed Edinburgh to come back strongly but Harry Byrne and Sam Prendergast managed the game well enough.

Good experience for the newbies who got another run-out with Boyle doing well at loosehead.  
Rob Russell has a fine boot on him and after he came on from bench kicked a superb defensive 22 kick towards the end at a narrow angle.  Tommy O'Brien had another fine game on the wing and scored a nice try.  

How's H Byrne been this season?

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Post by thebandwagonsociety Mon Nov 06, 2023 5:00 am

Harry's played quite well. He's got the skill and is a lovely passer of the ball.
Kinghorn made him look like an idiot on that wonder-try that brought Edinburgh right back into the game. He ran up the short side on a kick return basically 4 Leinster defenders in a 10 metre channel against 2 Edinburgh players, Harry jumps out of the line (or isn't paying attention) and lets Kinghorn glide around him. tut tut. Harry was immediately substituted, didn't even get to kick the restart from the try.
We started slow for 10-15 minutes, but when we would make even half a gap, with Harry distributing on front-foot we looked really scary.
I was surprised too how our front row (and substitute front row) held up against a what I would consider a top-rate Edinburgh starting combo in those positions.

But I'm being harsh on Harry, probably cos I subconsciously want Prendergast to get more minutes now before the big games come up and Ross starting will kick him off the bench entirely.

I was hoping to be .500 after four games using the academy players, so we have achieved that no-matter the result at Dragons next week. The way the youngsters have stepped up and improved since the start of the season, maybe I should be asking for more than a LBP at the Dave?

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Post by Maine man Mon Nov 06, 2023 6:29 am

Do you think Frawley will get much opportunity at fly half this season or will he be predominantly used as a centre or full back? I get the impression Farrell sees him as a fly half.

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Post by thebandwagonsociety Mon Nov 06, 2023 6:49 am

Maine man wrote:Do you think Frawley will get much opportunity at fly half this season or will he be predominantly used as a centre or full back? I get the impression Farrell sees him as a fly half.

Personally i'd love to have him starting 10 for Leinster from now to xmas and have prendergast as understudy on the bench. But that won't happen. I think he'll be kept at 15 and play some minutes at 12 too depending on how substitutions/injuries hit the backline in a game. But Ngatai and Henshaw will keep him from the 12 jersey most matches and Hugo takes the 15 jersey unless minutes are restricting him.

I think Farrell was seeing him as a 10 when there was no-one putting their hands up for the 2-3rd jersey in the last RWC build up. But Ross showed he could do a job and injuries at different times gave Jack Crowley the opportunity to show his potential. I don't foresee Farrell going 4 places down the Leinster o/h depth chart (Ross, Harry, Sam, Ciaran) to give Test minutes to a player.

For better or worse, his versatility of covering 10, centres and fullback will drop him in the utility player bucket to bring up the 22-23 jersey on match/test day selections.

Unless he really kicks on with POTM calibre performances.

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Post by Maine man Mon Nov 06, 2023 7:29 am

I've always rated him. Do you think he's happy just to playing anywhere or do you think his preferred position is fly half?

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Post by thebandwagonsociety Mon Nov 06, 2023 8:16 am

Maine man wrote:I've always rated him. Do you think he's happy just to playing anywhere or do you think his preferred position is fly half?

His problem is that he isn't a stroppy little brat so never seems to get mouthy or demand anything. Great for team player and all, but not when you want a player to grab a 10 jersey (or a game) and just tell everyone else that it's his jersey/(game).

My worry with him isn't too much about temperament, and definitely no issues with talent or game awareness. Its to do with injury profile. He doesn't from memory pick up a recurring injury but never goes a sustained number of games without getting what most of the time is just called 'an unfortunate knock'. Its not that he's too light or fragile, and it isn't 'putting the body on the line', it's more that he tends to be around the wrong end of flailing elbows, boots, rolling ankles, etc. Maybe that's just a mental thing with me though.

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Post by Pot Hale Tue Nov 07, 2023 10:08 am

The RWC players have all returned to training - selection will be on a case by case basis. Presumably that means the regular test starters mightn't be in this week - they'll hold until next week's home game against Scarlets.

Hooker, John McKee, to be further assessed this week ahead of selection - recovering from hamstring injury. Dylan Donnellan still living the dream in his absence.

Michael Milne further assessment as he continues his return from a shoulder injury. LH stocks are low with Ed Byrne, Healy absent longer through injury. Jack Boyle and Rory McGuire holding the fort well.

Luke McGrath (knee) and Alex Soroka (foot) still recovering - won't feature.

So hopefully, we'll see Baird and McCarthy competing for lock spots, Ross Byrne possibly displacing brother Harry, maybe Conan or Henshaw if they're fit to play a part, and Jimmy O'Brien competing for one of the back three starting spots.
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Post by Pot Hale Sun Nov 12, 2023 4:55 pm

Well the bonus point achieved. And possible injuries to Tommy O’Brien who can’t catch a break. And also bench 9, Cormac Foley which leaves only academy players to back up Gibson Park when he comes back in.

Scarlets at home next. With Furlong, Porter, Ryan, van der Flier, Doris, Conan, Henshaw, Ringrose, Lowe, and Keenan still to be eased back in and be ready for the next block of matches.
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Post by thebandwagonsociety Mon Nov 13, 2023 3:45 am

15 points after 4 rounds of matches is 1 win more than was my hopes so a good start by the squad. This becomes the interesting period now where the squad spirit/morale has to be managed with the rest of the Test level players coming back in.

Also, when does our head coach show up..... and how long will it take for his game philosophy to start making an impact onto the teams playing style? Or does that only need to be bedded down towards the end of the season? Does he leave things as they are through the Euro pool stages and take the 6Ns break as the time to implement changes? A very interesting time ahead.

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Post by Pot Hale Tue Nov 14, 2023 7:55 pm

thebandwagonsociety wrote:15 points after 4 rounds of matches is 1 win more than was my hopes so a good start by the squad. This becomes the interesting period now where the squad spirit/morale has to be managed with the rest of the Test level players coming back in.

Also, when does our head coach show up..... and how long will it take for his game philosophy to start making an impact onto the teams playing style? Or does that only need to be bedded down towards the end of the season? Does he leave things as they are through the Euro pool stages and take the 6Ns break as the time to implement changes? A very interesting time ahead.

Agreed on the substantial integration task ahead. We’ve had Baird, McCarthy, Sheehan, O’Brien back already.  Next up I reckon if fit, Gibson Park (McGrath and Foley out inj), Lowe, Conan, Henshaw, and possibly Furlong.  

Leo is our Head Coach.  Nienaber is the Senior Coach (same as Lancaster), with particular focus on defence.  Given the block of matches ahead pre 6N, don’t think he has the luxury to sit on his hands. All hands on deck I suspect from day one, but it will take time for his methods and approach to bed in.
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Post by Pot Hale Fri Nov 17, 2023 6:25 pm

Team to face Scarlets at RDS:

Keenan, Larmour, Ringrose, Osborne, O’Brien, Prendergast, Gibson-Park
Porter, Kelleher, Clarkson, Ryan, McCarthy, Deegan, VdFlier, Doris.
Reps: Sheehan, Boyle, Furlong, Molony, Penny, Gunne, R Byrne, Frawley.  

Lot of experience with most of the test players back but new props get another opportunity.
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Post by thebandwagonsociety Sun Nov 19, 2023 3:10 pm

A fair bit of rustiness in that Leinster performance but still a 54-5 home victory.
Unfortunately that probably says more about how far Scarlets have fallen.
Porter needs to sort out his scrummaging, even if he is in the right, the refs have him pinged so he needs to change the pictures he is creating in the scrum. Furlong also came on and was overextended too often.
Surprisingly Boyle and Clarkson both put in decent displays.
Jimmy and Keenan are still both lethal in attack. Larmour got a fair knock to the head in the second half thought he should have been HIA'd personally. Ringrose plays too many minutes. The Deegan/VDF/Doris backrow looked formidable (and Conan looking on).
Nice to see Gunne get a run out.
Penny is a pack leader in waiting.

Unfortunately, I don't think it was a decent enough runout to get rid of the rustiness for a Munster game in a weeks time. Munster waiting in the long grass, as they like to do.

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Sun Nov 19, 2023 3:45 pm

thebandwagonsociety wrote:A fair bit of rustiness in that Leinster performance but still a 54-5 home victory.
Unfortunately that probably says more about how far Scarlets have fallen.
Porter needs to sort out his scrummaging, even if he is in the right, the refs have him pinged so he needs to change the pictures he is creating in the scrum. Furlong also came on and was overextended too often.
Surprisingly Boyle and Clarkson both put in decent displays.
Jimmy and Keenan are still both lethal in attack. Larmour got a fair knock to the head in the second half thought he should have been HIA'd personally. Ringrose plays too many minutes. The Deegan/VDF/Doris backrow looked formidable (and Conan looking on).
Nice to see Gunne get a run out.
Penny is a pack leader in waiting.

Unfortunately, I don't think it was a decent enough runout to get rid of the rustiness for a Munster game in a weeks time. Munster waiting in the long grass, as they like to do.
Why is it a surprise Boyle played well?

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Post by thebandwagonsociety Mon Nov 20, 2023 5:45 am

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
thebandwagonsociety wrote:A fair bit of rustiness in that Leinster performance but still a 54-5 home victory.
Unfortunately that probably says more about how far Scarlets have fallen.
Porter needs to sort out his scrummaging, even if he is in the right, the refs have him pinged so he needs to change the pictures he is creating in the scrum. Furlong also came on and was overextended too often.
Surprisingly Boyle and Clarkson both put in decent displays.
Jimmy and Keenan are still both lethal in attack. Larmour got a fair knock to the head in the second half thought he should have been HIA'd personally. Ringrose plays too many minutes. The Deegan/VDF/Doris backrow looked formidable (and Conan looking on).
Nice to see Gunne get a run out.
Penny is a pack leader in waiting.

Unfortunately, I don't think it was a decent enough runout to get rid of the rustiness for a Munster game in a weeks time. Munster waiting in the long grass, as they like to do.
Why is it a surprise Boyle played well?

Pleasantly surprised that Porter / Furlong starting/coming off the bench, there wasn't really a marked difference to Boyle and Clarkson in comparative performance over the course of the match. The youngsters were nipping at the veterans' heels.

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Mon Nov 20, 2023 9:53 am

thebandwagonsociety wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
thebandwagonsociety wrote:A fair bit of rustiness in that Leinster performance but still a 54-5 home victory.
Unfortunately that probably says more about how far Scarlets have fallen.
Porter needs to sort out his scrummaging, even if he is in the right, the refs have him pinged so he needs to change the pictures he is creating in the scrum. Furlong also came on and was overextended too often.
Surprisingly Boyle and Clarkson both put in decent displays.
Jimmy and Keenan are still both lethal in attack. Larmour got a fair knock to the head in the second half thought he should have been HIA'd personally. Ringrose plays too many minutes. The Deegan/VDF/Doris backrow looked formidable (and Conan looking on).
Nice to see Gunne get a run out.
Penny is a pack leader in waiting.

Unfortunately, I don't think it was a decent enough runout to get rid of the rustiness for a Munster game in a weeks time. Munster waiting in the long grass, as they like to do.
Why is it a surprise Boyle played well?

Pleasantly surprised that Porter / Furlong starting/coming off the bench, there wasn't really a marked difference to Boyle and Clarkson in comparative performance over the course of the match. The youngsters were nipping at the veterans' heels.
Boyle was a superstar underage, so there's a lot of hope he'll come good.
Porter and Furlong are generational freaks who were performing at the highest level from early in their careers. Unfortunately every player coming through now is being compared to them, which is perhaps why Clarkson gets a lot of harsh treatment from fans

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Post by geoff999rugby Mon Nov 20, 2023 10:23 am

For me one of the big difference is I see more option at TH at other provinces, at LH not so much (maybe Boyle gets a free ride but
Clarkson is being compared to other propects)
Also Clarkson is 23 and Boyle 21


At Ulster for example, under 30 we have
at TH
O'Toole (25)
and who knows Wilson (21)

whilst at LH
O'Sullivan (27)
Reid (23)
O'Sullivan is a decent URC standard prop
Reid has yet to really burst through

Clarkson strikes me like Reid has yet to really burst through
Boyle I need to see more of but his age is a good sign

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Mon Nov 20, 2023 12:19 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:For me one of the big difference is I see more option at TH at other provinces, at LH not so much (maybe Boyle gets a free ride but
Clarkson is being compared to other propects)
Also Clarkson is 23 and Boyle 21


At Ulster for example, under 30 we have
at TH
O'Toole (25)
and who knows Wilson (21)

whilst at LH
O'Sullivan (27)
Reid (23)
O'Sullivan is a decent URC standard prop
Reid has yet to really burst through

Clarkson strikes me like Reid has yet to really burst through
Boyle I need to see more of but his age is a good sign
The reason why there are more options in the other provinces, is because both Salanoa and Aungier were taken at the same time. That left as massive hole in the depth chart that had to be filled by Clarkson who was only out of the u20s at the time. It is very difficult to produce top level THs in general though, theres a reason they are paid so well.

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Post by Pot Hale Tue Nov 21, 2023 3:40 am

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:For me one of the big difference is I see more option at TH at other provinces, at LH not so much (maybe Boyle gets a free ride but
Clarkson is being compared to other propects)
Also Clarkson is 23 and Boyle 21


At Ulster for example, under 30 we have
at TH
O'Toole (25)
and who knows Wilson (21)

whilst at LH
O'Sullivan (27)
Reid (23)
O'Sullivan is a decent URC standard prop
Reid has yet to really burst through

Clarkson strikes me like Reid has yet to really burst through
Boyle I need to see more of but his age is a good sign
The reason why there are more options in the other provinces, is because both Salanoa and Aungier were taken at the same time. That left as massive hole in the depth chart that had to be filled by Clarkson who was only out of the u20s at the time. It is very difficult to produce top level THs in general though, theres a reason they are paid so well.

Agree on this.   Hopefully Clarkson gets a good run of games this season to further his development and skillset.   Young Paddy McCarthy could turn out to be quite useful too - experience on both sides of the scrum.

On the injury front - Ed Byrne, Michael Milne and Cian Healy all coming back into the training squad this week - hopefully ready to go this weekend or next.

Should be a good day out at the Aviva against a Munster side full of it.
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Post by geoff999rugby Tue Nov 21, 2023 6:31 am

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
The reason why there are more options in the other provinces, is because both Salanoa and Aungier were taken at the same time. That left as massive hole in the depth chart that had to be filled by Clarkson who was only out of the u20s at the time. It is very difficult to produce top level THs in general though, theres a reason they are paid so well.


Good point.
What you are really saying is of the young TH's (under 30) playing for the Provinces developed with a province we have
who have any realistic chance of playing for Ireland we have

Leinster 4
Ulster 2
Munster 1
Connacht 0

Ulster - O'Toole, Wilson
Leinster - Clarkson
Munster - Knox, Salanoa (in Leinster Academy), Jager (never played, 28 and a blow in)
Connacht - Aungier (in Leinster Academy), Illo? (in Leinster Academy)



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Post by thebandwagonsociety Fri Dec 15, 2023 3:11 am

Leinster apparently going to pick up an injury prone lock from Munster (........ again). Always being left with the broken hand-me-downs.

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Post by Pot Hale Mon Mar 04, 2024 7:57 pm

Ross Molony off to Bath apparently as he sees limited game time this season with the emergence of Joe McCarthy far quicker than expected soaking up more game time. With the arrival of Snyman next season, Molony has seen the writing on the wall, and with a 3-year contract offer from Bath, his choice makes a lot of sense.

He's been the classic tireless servant for Leinster since 2015, clocking up 160 caps for his club, largely in the PRO14/URC but in more recent seasons featured heavily in European Cup games.

He won a cap with Ireland Wolfhounds in 2022 but apparently has English ancestry that would put him in the category of English-Qualified as far as funding/budgets and quotas are concerned.

Best of luck to him - no doubt he'll be hoping to leave his hometown club with some silverware/medals in his back pocket by season end.
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Post by Unclear Tue Mar 05, 2024 6:39 am

Shame he couldn't be persuaded to go up the road to Ulster as I think he is just the sort forward we need to add a more abrasive edge if Alan O'Connor is going to retire as is being rumoured. But there is no way Ulster would be offering him a better payday, and I wouldn't begrudge him that. As you say a great servant to his province.

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Post by thebandwagonsociety Fri Mar 15, 2024 6:33 am

Random one, has the season ticket renewal started yet? I don't get the level of decent correspondence from Leinster Rugby that they used to send out.

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Post by thebandwagonsociety Fri Mar 15, 2024 6:39 am

Pot Hale wrote:Ross Molony off to Bath apparently as he sees limited game time this season with the emergence of Joe McCarthy far quicker than expected soaking up more game time.  With the arrival of Snyman next season, Molony has seen the writing on the wall, and with a 3-year contract offer from Bath, his choice makes a lot of sense.

He's been the classic tireless servant for Leinster since 2015, clocking up 160 caps for his club, largely in the PRO14/URC but in more recent seasons featured heavily in European Cup games.  

He won a cap with Ireland Wolfhounds in 2022 but apparently has English ancestry that would put him in the category of English-Qualified as far as funding/budgets and quotas are concerned.

Best of luck to him - no doubt he'll be hoping to leave his hometown club with some silverware/medals in his back pocket by season end.

Probably seen as a kind of Donnacha Ryan to Racing kind of signing from back in the day (though Ryan was a far better player, not to be disputed). But you get a solid pack player with knowledge of a winning set up to freshen up a squad, almost a forwards coach assistant too. Reminds me of Cullen to Tigers back in the day also (wonder what the age they were on those transfers, Leo must have been younger in that instance). Good pick up for Bath, Ross should have a decent paycheck out of it. Win-win...... should Bath have gone for Rhys instead of Ross in that scenario I wonder?

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Post by formerly known as Sam Fri Mar 15, 2024 11:36 am

thebandwagonsociety wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:Ross Molony off to Bath apparently as he sees limited game time this season with the emergence of Joe McCarthy far quicker than expected soaking up more game time.  With the arrival of Snyman next season, Molony has seen the writing on the wall, and with a 3-year contract offer from Bath, his choice makes a lot of sense.

He's been the classic tireless servant for Leinster since 2015, clocking up 160 caps for his club, largely in the PRO14/URC but in more recent seasons featured heavily in European Cup games.  

He won a cap with Ireland Wolfhounds in 2022 but apparently has English ancestry that would put him in the category of English-Qualified as far as funding/budgets and quotas are concerned.

Best of luck to him - no doubt he'll be hoping to leave his hometown club with some silverware/medals in his back pocket by season end.

Probably seen as  a kind of Donnacha Ryan to Racing kind of signing from back in the day (though Ryan was a far better player, not to be disputed). But you get a solid pack player with knowledge of a winning set up to freshen up a squad, almost a forwards coach assistant too. Reminds me of Cullen to Tigers back in the day also (wonder what the age they were on those transfers, Leo must have been younger in that instance). Good pick up for Bath, Ross should have a decent paycheck out of it. Win-win...... should Bath have gone for Rhys instead of Ross in that scenario I wonder?

When Leo Cullen came to Tigers, Leinster weren't the winning juggernaut they are now. Tigers on the other hand were coming off the bank of a successful spell but facing a minor rebuild. Cullen wouldn't have been a coach at that point, he wasn't an automatic starter being one of four international locks at the club at the time. He was 27 when he joined and headed back at 29 probably a better player and then went on to be a phenomenal leader at Leinster.

Tigers would have very much liked to hold onto him, he's certainly turned into a very astute coach which we have missed before we changed CEO and stopped drifting from one mess to another.

Bath are heavily recruiting around lock ahead of next season. Jacques du Plessis is arriving and he's a mobile unit that's been held back by injuries. Add in Molony and Ewels and they start to look to have a big and industrious engine room. Unlikely to be effected by international call ups as well.

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Post by Collapse2005 Sun Apr 14, 2024 3:32 am

Great game from Ross Byrne yesterday.

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