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England's Winter of Cricket 2023/24

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Post by Duty281 Thu Nov 30, 2023 2:31 pm

First topic message reminder :

After the disappointment of the World Cup, can England be the first away team in 11 years to win a test series in India?

Three ODIs v West Indies (3rd December-9th December)
Five T20s v West Indies (12th December-21st December)
Five Tests v India (25th January-11th March)

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Post by VTR Sat Dec 16, 2023 8:59 pm

Never in doubt as Salt scores a hundred and Brook makes 31 off 7 balls to win it for England. England's death bowling not looking so bad, this was a bowler's graveyard

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Post by Duty281 Sat Dec 16, 2023 9:00 pm

But England have remembered how to bat, so victory is theirs. Just like the old days. The batting bailing out the bowling.

Salt with a maiden T20i ton, Brook the finisher with 31 off 7, and Buttler earlier laying the groundwork with a half-century.

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Post by king_carlos Sat Dec 16, 2023 9:39 pm

Better from the batting at least. Really great to see Salt get a ton. With Hales gone and Malan being dropped in the Hundred over the summer they need that new partner for Jos. Personally I was thinking Jacks opening with Salt at three but he's probably bought himself the spot there.

The death bowling is a huge issue though. Most concerningly that might be our best options without Jof. Surran on last years form is our next best death bowler. Topley next after that. Atkinson has been good there in the Hundred. Then Mills was once one of the best.

I really doubt Mills can get back there though. His once sublime economy at the death came from the variation between his express pace and the revs on his slower ball. He got so much drop and even spin off the pitch from what was basically a googly with 90mph+ arm speed. I just don't think he can do it since the latest injuries though.

Definite concerns.

I wonder if they're trialling Mo for the bowling role that Stokes had in the last World T20? They used Stokes first up to sneak overs from their 5th/6th bowler through early.

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Post by alfie Sun Dec 17, 2023 5:59 am

Sounds like a fun exhibition of hitting all round ! Presume this was one of those flat pitch small ground events that make bowlers wonder why they play this game ?

Some relief for the embattled England white ball management with Buttler getting some more runs and the team achieving a win ... and Salt pushing his claims to be the Roy-replacement in the short formats. Plus another reminder of Brook's freakish talents. And nice to see Topley back in action.

Keeps the t20 series alive too. Wouldn't care to bet on a result in any of these games though...

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Post by KP_fan Sun Dec 17, 2023 8:06 am

I saw better part of WI batting yesterday and whilst a couple of hours later I checked the score card to see Eng won...

I think this WI side has some very brute hitting power with bat consistently....
and bowlers who can continue to bat and hit down the order upto 9
And fairly decent bowling inspite of being clobbered by Salt and Brook yesterday.

Their ODI non Qualification notwithstanding , WI will be top contender for the T20 world cup
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Post by alfie Sun Dec 17, 2023 9:29 am

West Indies are usually quite competitive in t20 . Largely because of their batting focus on prioritising sixes at the cost , perhaps , of quite a lot of dot balls. As long as the sixes land successfully often enough ( which they do when a few of their strong hitters get set) they tend to get good scores...but this approach can be less effective on the bigger grounds , for obvious reasons. Their group games next year are all at home I guess so that should suit them nicely...

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Post by JDizzle Sun Dec 17, 2023 3:26 pm

alfie wrote:Sounds like a fun exhibition of hitting all round ! Presume this was one of those flat pitch small ground events that make bowlers wonder why they play this game ?

Some relief for the embattled England white ball management with Buttler getting some more runs and the team achieving a win ... and Salt pushing his claims to be the Roy-replacement in the short formats. Plus another reminder of Brook's freakish talents. And nice to see Topley back in action.

Keeps the t20 series alive too. Wouldn't care to bet on a result in any of these games though...

I would say the pitch wasn’t actually that flat! It was taking plenty of spin - I was surprised England dropped Rehan - but the boundaries were small and the bowling plans and execution awful.

For some reason Atkinson was banging it half way down with small boundaries. They were trying to execute their WT20 in Aus plans in the Windies.

I agree with Carlos on Mills. Batters are so powerful now, I feel you can only really be a consistently successful T20 bowler with either searing pace or mystery spin. Mills doesn’t have that pace anymore, and slower ball merchants only have a limited shelf life before batters work you out. Atkinson is quick but not quick quick. Then you have guys like Curran who can horses for courses when conditions suit, like they did in Aus.

I know he got a ton yesterday - but I am not convinced by Salt still. In the nicest possible way, he feels like a proper old fashioned pinch hitting slogger, in a way even someone like Roy never was. I think real quality opening bowlers will knock him over quite easily, but he’s taken his chance with aplomb so can’t knock him.

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Post by KP_fan Sun Dec 17, 2023 7:11 pm

alfie wrote:West Indies are usually quite competitive in t20 . Largely because of their batting focus on prioritising sixes at the cost , perhaps , of quite a lot of dot balls. As long as the sixes land successfully often enough ( which they do when a few of their strong hitters get set) they tend to get good scores...but this approach can be less effective on the bigger grounds , for obvious reasons. Their group games next year are all at home I guess so that should suit them nicely...

I don't think grounds size is what would constrain WI
Only seaming/ bouncy pitches is where there power hitting gets found out
As it happened in the last T20 WC in SA

They thrive at home and also will in sub continent
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Post by alfie Mon Dec 18, 2023 4:08 am

Thanks for info , JD . I didn't see any of it so interesting to know the pitch was spin friendly : does make you wonder why Rehan didn't play ?

I get what you mean about Salt. He's not yet produced the goods against top quality attacks - though to be fair he hasn't had many chances to do so ; but if this is the " new player audition " tour he has presumably put himself at the head of the queue for an opening spot. Maybe fair to say jury still out on him at the top level , but has earned a try ?

Of course I'm not certain that Malan has necessarily been permanently binned. The lack of games before the T20 WC is going to make judgement of the best options for the "open" spots rather tricky , both batting and bowling. Might be a fair amount of guesswork involved - and fielding skills may be a large factor.

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Post by KP_fan Mon Dec 18, 2023 11:07 am

Eng(W) lose the only test by 347 runs & their captain had this to say

"These conditions were really extreme; we have never seen that sort of spin before, that sort of dryness in the pitch," Knight said after England's record 347-run loss at the DY Patil Stadium.

I really feel for Eng-W......the pitch should have some sense of balance.
Even men after having toured sub-continent for a 6 decades & played on these spitting cobra, bunsen pitches still struggle
Knight is right, they would have never seen anything like this before.
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Post by alfie Mon Dec 18, 2023 1:18 pm

I guess the pitch was a bit tricky - especially after the first day. But England have largely themselves to blame for not starting to bat on it until day two - and facing 400 plus. Certainly India batted well , but the number of fairly straightforward chances that were missed had a lot to do with their final total. Were always up against it from then on , even though the total collapses were a bit extreme.

Picking a team in which the tail started at seven didn't help either Wink

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Post by Duty281 Tue Dec 19, 2023 9:06 pm

Another ton for Salt! 48 balls this time. The first Englishman to reach two T20i centuries, and he's done it in back-to-back matches. Incredible.

England heading for well over 200.

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Post by Duty281 Tue Dec 19, 2023 9:30 pm

241 was England's previous highest T20 score. Today it was 267. The second highest T20i score by a test-playing nation against another test-playing nation.

116* was England's previous highest individual T20 score (Alex Hales). Today Salt scored 119 off 57. Oh and LL got a 20-ball half-century.

The balance may have been somewhat tilted in favour of the batsmen.

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Post by king_carlos Tue Dec 19, 2023 10:59 pm

I honestly didn't even realise there was another one today until seeing your posts, duty. Christ cricket scheduling is off the charts dumb these days. It's so difficult to care about vast swathes of it. That's from someone who I think passes as being obsessed with the sport too.

Checking the scorecard, Salt has surely nailed down that spot next to Buttler for a bit. Livi showing his ability in that finisher role too which is good. He's flattered to deceive in ODIs but remains a strong T20 option.

Salt with the gloves too. Buttler is a fantastic outfielder in a side that hasn't been as good there for a while. So it makes sense. In retrospect they probably could've improved the fielding unit noticeably at the CWC by giving YJB the gloves and experimenting with another two legged fielder by having Jos somewhere in the ring.

Judging by their figures the bowling once again looks like Dilly, a big drop off, then plenty to worry about though.

I'll try to catch the highlights during lunch tomorrow. Unless I don't. By then they might have started a surprise bilateral series in Australia or India for us to barely engage with instead.

In a way Australia winning the CWC was incredibly fitting for the drifting engagement the modern calendar creates. Just as Head was bludgeoning that astonishing ton in the final many Aussie cricket fans were waking up from their post AFL season sporting snooze, belatedly realising a bit of cricket was on over in India and having a passing glance at it to warmup for their summer. "Decent stick that Travis. Eh, wait a minute, why are they lifting a trophy now? Ohhhh, that was the f***ing final mate?", every bloke in Brisbane.

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Post by alfie Wed Dec 20, 2023 5:36 am

Salt doing the business again I see....he's had a good week ! Certainly looks to be the new t20 opener now : remains to be whether he will be able to secure that spot in the fifty over stuff - when they next get round to playing any.

You wouldn't want to be a bowler in this series ! Was wondering if this was being played in someone's back yard but I see some of the sixes referenced as being hit 80 yards or more so I guess it's more a matter of well muscled batters with modern bats ...battering. I'm sure those who attend these slog-fests are suitably thrilled but personally prefer a little more balance between bat and ball...

From an England perspective it is pleasing to see a couple of wins , some runs again for Jos after a wretched string of poor form , and of course more Salty stuff . Though as KC notes , the bowling apart from Rashid still looks to be struggling. Have to hope he is fit and firing next year for the WC as he's sure irreplaceable at this stage.

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Post by VTR Wed Dec 20, 2023 9:57 am

Bit harsh on the bowling, it might have some issues but surely can't be judged on this or the previous match. As amusing as the carnage is, it's not good cricket when it's a surprise that a delivery isn't hit for 6.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Wed Dec 20, 2023 11:44 am

Have barely watched a ball of the cricket recently - echo KC's comments above, even as an avid cricket lover the schedule at the moment is just ridiculous and far too relentless to keep up with, not to mention almost pointless games.

Thank god there's a bit of a break from England for a month or so until the India stuff starts in earnest
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Post by king_carlos Wed Dec 20, 2023 11:46 am

The bowling just feels very reliant on certain players being fit and finding form. As they did in 2022. Surran as a death bowler. Topley and Wood staying fit. Woakes nailing down the PP. Dilly's shoulder holding together. All could happen. Despite his mixed form I've long been a big Surran advocate. Whilst I also think Woakes is an underrated T20 bowler.

I think the CWC debacle is fairly leading to some concern around "this side should challenge if this works out" though? None of us thought that many ifs would go the wrong way. Olly and I were worried about the fielding for instance but I didn't think the batting would go to pot that dramatically.

The outline of a very good T20 side is there. It's slightly younger in the batting but still older in the bowling:

1.Salt 2.Buttler 3.Jacks 4.Bairstow/Duckett/Stokes 5.Brook 6.Livingstone 7.Surran 8.Woakes 9.Dilly 10.Wood 11.Topley

With Jof ever the wildcard, sadly.

Moeen is then capable of filling a ton of different roles. I think his retention by CSK shows he does still have value there in T20s even if his CWC was poor. He's genuinely able to bat up the order or in the finisher role. Very destructive against spin. Left-handed in a side that is now sneakily righty dominant. Then able to bowl useful overs in the right conditions even if he is more of a batter now. As a role player who can backup Livi's job and offer horses for courses changes I think Mo makes sense for one more World T20.

It feels like they are hoping that Atkinson might be able to backup both Topley and Wood's roles. He is quick, talented with the new ball and has the raw materials to be good at the death but that takes experience. The jury is out but he has raw skills that few English seamers possess.

Rehan is Dilly's very raw back up. I think he is the next best we have to nurse into that role though to be fair. I like Parkinson but he bowls even slower than Kuldeep. Even then Kuldeep had to increase his pace by an unusual amount recently to improve his fortunes at the top level.

The T20i side looks much better to me than the ODI one. The younger batters are better in this format. Vitally, Livi is a much better T20 player as both a batter and bowler who can balance the side at 5 or 6. Buttler is world class. The bowling definitely has issues to worry about though.

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Post by Duty281 Wed Dec 20, 2023 3:43 pm

Yeah, the scheduling is a bit of a circus. My favourite current bit of cricket scheduling is Bangladesh playing limited-overs games in New Zealand...just a couple of weeks after New Zealand were playing tests in Bangladesh.

Salt may have played around half of his T20 games v West Indies and Bangladesh, and he may have played on the most batting friendly pitches you'll ever see, but I think he's earned the opening spot for the T20 World Cup. He's currently averaging 35 in T20i cricket with a SR of 165.

I liked Buttler relinquishing the gloves. It allows him to be more involved and focused on his captaincy, rather than juggling both key roles of captain and keeper. It's early days, but he's made two consecutive half-centuries and I hope he's finally turning the corner, after the horrific ODI World Cup he endured.

Rashid continues to be a marvel. He's actually overtaken Rashid Khan in the rankings and is now officially the number one T20 bowler in the world. The top four players in the T20i bowling rankings are all leg-spinners - Adil Rashid, Rashid Khan, Bishnoi and Hasaranga - followed by two more spinners in Theekshana and Hosein. Mujeeb and Shamsi are also all in the top ten. It's a spin-dominated format!

The deciding game in the series is tomorrow. Then that's it for England until the test series in India.

To add, The Telegraph are reporting that England and Australia will be in the same group for the T20 World Cup.

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Post by KP_fan Fri Dec 22, 2023 7:33 am

Duty281 wrote:

Rashid continues to be a marvel. He's actually overtaken Rashid Khan in the rankings and is now officially the number one T20 bowler in the world. The top four players in the T20i bowling rankings are all leg-spinners - Adil Rashid, Rashid Khan, Bishnoi and Hasaranga - followed by two more spinners in Theekshana and Hosein. Mujeeb and Shamsi are also all in the top ten. It's a spin-dominated format!
Rashid is indeed good...if they needed to lure one guy out of retirement for India tour...it should be him
His fitness doesn't look good....each time I see him...he is panting as if bothered by asthma

T20i rankings change very fast...because the sample size is quite low.
Bishnoi is a poor man's Rashid khan who still continues to be the real deal
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Post by alfie Fri Dec 22, 2023 8:19 am

So West Indies won the series 3-2 after a used pitch apparently provided a totally reversed situation from Tuesday... England battled to get about half what they'd managed in the previous match (Salt again the best though) and the hosts ran it down with a few balls to spare...
Sounds like a much more interesting contest but I think most on here long ago stopped really caring about this bunch of games Wink

Players can take a bit of a break now and for some of them it can't come soon enough.

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Post by alfie Sat Dec 30, 2023 7:33 am

I see Harmison has had a bit of a go at the England management for arranging to arrive in India just three days before the First Test this January... even going so far as to say they "deserve to lose 5-0".
Stokes gently firing back pointing out they are practicing in Abu Dhabi in advance of the tour. What he didn't say was that all too often host countries these days serve up total rubbish warm up games in terms of opposition and pitch conditions ; so arriving early and expecting to get meaningful preparation for the serious stuff is something from bygone days...

Remains to be seen whether such a brief period of acclimatisation will work for this England squad ; but it seems clear they have a proper plan in place - whether it is a "good one" , we will see in due course. The Pakistan tour last year worked well : this is a tougher assignment.

Actually think the batting looks rather stronger than it did on that last tour (when flying in and out due to the whole Covid situation really served to wreck an order that was already far too dependant on Joe Root in any case) : I have hopes they will be able to cope with India's very handy and varied attack reasonably well. Not so sure about the bowling...

Just the four pace men selected - though I suppose "A" team reserves won't be far away ; and the spin options apart from Leach (thankfully fully fit again and doubtless hoping to continue his upward trend under the Stokes leadership) lack much - or indeed any - experience at the top level. Stokes himself unlikely to bowl it seems , which is a serious disadvantage in terms of flexibility : the prospective tail looks very fragile already and extending it to five by picking an extra full time bowler strikes me as a huge risk. Hopefully the underrated Root spin will be utilized to effect. And may we hope that Rehan Ahmed can
summon the magic he produced in his initial Test in Pakistan ? Even though expecting similar results seems a little over optimistic...

Few weeks yet to wait and speculate while enjoying the SA and Australian home seasons. Until it actually starts , Anything is Possible Smile

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Post by king_carlos Sat Dec 30, 2023 1:34 pm

Whilst I can often be a bit doom mongering with regards to cricket governance, I think I'm usually more optimistic when it comes to the England men's team. Even before likely doomed Ashes series down under I like to talk myself into thinking, "if these very unlikely 6 things that won't happen do happen it could be interesting", then it crushes me.

There's something about this tour that I just can't quite see though. Even less so than others. The depth between sides just seems too great.

Ashwin, Jadeja and Axar are a brilliant spin trio in these conditions. On top of that they are also all-rounders in these conditions. Jadeja is in all to be fair. Ashwin is a far better bat with less bounce around though.

Then Bumrah, Shami and Siraj offers them the ability to take two from three and have a potent and fresh seam pair to complement.

The batting isn't as imposing as it once was. Kohli and Rohit have aged. They are clearly in the process of replacing Pujara and Rahane. Though Jinxs was often better away from home, hence his value to the Indian setup where that's so rarely the case. Then Pant is sadly still on the comeback trail. It's still a very strong top 6 in home conditions though.

Whereas England have Root who's a proven, quality player of spin. Brook who is unbelievably talented but definitely learning his way playing spin. I think Duckett has natural ability against tweakers, but, will be a leftie facing statistically the best destroyer of southpaws in the history of Tests. Pope's biggest issue is looking like a cat on a hot tin roof against anything with revolutions on it. The poor bloke must have a phobia of gyroscopes. Crawley, same as ever anything could happen. It might be spectacular, might be atrocious, will probably average around 30. Then Stokes and Bairstow's fitness remain concerns.

The bowling is undeniably most concerning. Leach suits s**t tips but is coming back from injury and has a chronic disease. Rehan is very young and slower leggies rarely do great in India. Then the two kids picked for being tall. Plus the hope that Root can be a genuine all-rounder as well as our only decent stick in these conditions.

As much as it pains me to say, Jimmy looked poor in the Ashes. His record in India is brilliant. He can still bowl dry which is so important. But there has to be questions there after the summer. Robinson keeps looking like he lacks the conditioning to be the bowler he should be over a series. Wood has a glass ankle. Atkinson is talented but very raw to be in India as part of a 4-man seamer group.

I have a bad feeling this might be one of those tours where we end up discussing certain selections that likely won't make a huge difference. I'd give Foakes the gloves for instance, but, I really don't think that's going to make up the chasm in bowling resources. I'd have brought Dawson as first reserve spinner (if he wanted too...) who can hold a bat, but, again, I don't think he's closing that chasm sufficiently.

A bit like how I still think Rob Key should've been on the '06/07 Ashes tour once they lost Vaughan, then Tres. Key had his flaws but he was a cracking player of pace. They still would've been pumped. But I still think he should've been there. I feel we might be discussing those sorts of minimal selection calls. Deck chairs on the Titanic type stuff.

I really hope they prove me wrong. I'll watch keenly anyway. As is my addiction to this ridiculous sport. The aggressive approach combined with potential s**t tips might give them a punchers chance of squeaking one. I just can't quite see it though. Even with my ridiculous mental contortionism when previewing series. Someone help me believe?

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Post by alfie Sun Dec 31, 2023 1:18 am

Haha , KC I completely understand your inability to embrace even minimal optimism for this daunting assignment. All of the points you make above are hard to contest. If I maintain hope , it is because many years of following this game have shown that players and teams can go forward or backward very quickly, often with little advance warning.
India are certainly strong home favourites ; but I don't see them as unbeatable - mainly because their batting doesn't look anything near as solid as some of the lineups they have fielded in recent years. The type of pitches produced will be interesting... They would surely be confident of their attack prospering on any surface ; so perhaps we won't see total spindizzies - at least unless England manage to burgle an unlikely early series lead like last time ...

Anyway your essay will give Duty a challenge in trying to come up with a more devastatingly pessimistic preview Wink

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Post by Duty281 Sun Dec 31, 2023 10:14 am

I think England's aim should be to just win a test, like last time, and hopefully push India close in one or two of the defeats. Any further hope seems fanciful. I do fear a 5-0 with a couple of innings defeats.

It's an odd series because I'm actually more worried about the bowling than the batting, which is the first time I've said that about an England test side in an age. Anderson perhaps reaching the end now. Robinson and Wood about as reliable, fitness wise, as the British train service. Atkinson uncapped, and India is a daunting physical challenge and often a graveyard for seam bowlers. Then the spinners. Leach, decent but nothing more. Rehan, promising but raw. Hartley and Bashir likely to be out of their depth.

The batting is a case of wait and see. Pin all hopes on Root and Brook. Anything from Pope is a bonus. Bairstow's never done well in Asia, just one ton from 30 innings and an average of 32; and neither has Stokes, with an average of below 30 in Asia and just one ton in 40 innings. So best hope Crawley or Duckett can continue their form.

It's actually a huge year of test cricket for England. 17 tests in one calendar year. Last time England played that many was 2016. Definitely the hardest challenge up first.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sun Dec 31, 2023 10:23 am

Many happy new year returns to you all - share similar pessimism for the India series as others, and like Duty would be delighted to get out of this without a 5-0 whitewash, which surely has to be the favourite for the series result
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Post by Duty281 Mon Jan 01, 2024 11:10 am

Yes, happy new year. Here's to England going 17-0, winning the T20 World Cup, and no quick bowlers getting injured.

Alright, that last one is a bit unrealistic!

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Post by Duty281 Mon Jan 08, 2024 12:09 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2024/jan/07/uk-cricket-fans-face-india-v-england-blackout-with-tv-deal-still-to-be-agreed

The drama we all expected. Just under 17 days until the start of the India-England test series and a TV deal has not yet been agreed to show the tests in the UK. This happened with the last series, in 2021, but Channel 4 stepped in at the last knockings. However, it appears Channel 4 are not so interested in doing the same thing this year.

Sky and TNT, therefore, seem to be the most likely, but Sky are currently focusing on T20 Cricket and TNT is apparently 'indifferent'. Could the BBC or ITV shock us and bid for the rights? Or will we all have to settle for a dodgy Internet stream?

I'm not 100% sure of the answer, but I think the last time an England test wasn't broadcast on TV in the UK was the three test series in New Zealand in 1988. ITV carried highlights of that series.

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Post by KP_fan Mon Jan 08, 2024 1:18 pm

what's making waves in India is the news of Eng bringing their own chef.
Like almost every trivial thing this too pricks the nationalist self respect of many in India.

Eng are denying that they do not trust the hotels....but that might exactly be the reason.
Sides have( or should have) stopped trusting BCCI on matters like toss and food contaminating on the eve of or during a test match
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Mon Jan 08, 2024 3:06 pm

Duty281 wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2024/jan/07/uk-cricket-fans-face-india-v-england-blackout-with-tv-deal-still-to-be-agreed

The drama we all expected. Just under 17 days until the start of the India-England test series and a TV deal has not yet been agreed to show the tests in the UK. This happened with the last series, in 2021, but Channel 4 stepped in at the last knockings. However, it appears Channel 4 are not so interested in doing the same thing this year.

Sky and TNT, therefore, seem to be the most likely, but Sky are currently focusing on T20 Cricket and TNT is apparently 'indifferent'. Could the BBC or ITV shock us and bid for the rights? Or will we all have to settle for a dodgy Internet stream?

I'm not 100% sure of the answer, but I think the last time an England test wasn't broadcast on TV in the UK was the three test series in New Zealand in 1988. ITV carried highlights of that series.

The BCCI really are a total sham of an organisation, pretty much on a one man mission to ruin this game
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Post by Duty281 Mon Jan 08, 2024 5:13 pm

Just seen the odds for the series flash up on SkyBet.

India are, justifiably, 1/5 to win the series. A drawn series 8/1 and an England win 13/2. Remember India haven't lost a series at home for eleven years!

In terms of the outright series score markets, an India 3-1 series win over England is the shortest at 4/1. But I can't really see a draw happening unless the heavens open. India winning 4-0/4-1 are both 5/1, and an Indian clean sweep of 5-0 is 7/1. A very tempting 7/1.

For the English optimists, a 3-2 series win is priced at 18/1, with 5-0 England coming in at 250/1.

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Post by Duty281 Fri Jan 12, 2024 2:50 pm

It was the first day of the England Lions tour of India today. The Lions are playing a two-day game v India A today and tomorrow, followed by three four-day games (termed 'unofficial tests'), also against India A. Those last three games starting on the 17th of January, 24th of January and 1st of February respectively.

The idea being, presumably, that form players can come in, if needed, for the actual test series v India having adapted to the local conditions, perhaps from test three onwards.

However, it wasn't a good opening day for the Lions. Batting first, a strong start (66/0) was followed by a typical English collapse (90/5), and eventually saw the Lions bowled out for 233 in 51 overs. Mousley the only one to make a half-century. Rew was run out for 1, Bohannon made just 8, and ex-England openers Lees and Jennings failed to convert decent starts.

In reply, India A bolted to 123/1 from 26 overs. Only Carse getting a wicket, although none of the bowlers appeared to be smashed out of the attack.

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Post by KP_fan Fri Jan 12, 2024 4:07 pm

India-A vs Eng-Lions is a quite a star studded game on both sides.
Eng bowled out for only 233 in 50 odd and spinners taking only 4 wickets
To give 6 wkts to seamers...who btw are quite competent but not exceptional and to last only 51 overs, not great going.
( the look of scorecard would suggest they went bazballing)

Manav Suthaar a young SLA bowling allrounder which India has  so many of...atleast 5 counting Jadeja and Axar

Eswaran couldn't convert to a big score, would rue it....Pradosh Paul, Sarfaraz and Sai Sudarshan are all knocking on test side doors...are yet to bat
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Post by guildfordbat Fri Jan 12, 2024 5:00 pm

Duty281 wrote:It was the first day of the England Lions tour of India today. The Lions are playing a two-day game v India A today and tomorrow, followed by three four-day games (termed 'unofficial tests'), also against India A. Those last three games starting on the 17th of January, 24th of January and 1st of February respectively.

The idea being, presumably, that form players can come in, if needed, for the actual test series v India having adapted to the local conditions, perhaps from test three onwards.

However, it wasn't a good opening day for the Lions. Batting first, a strong start (66/0) was followed by a typical English collapse (90/5), and eventually saw the Lions bowled out for 233 in 51 overs. Mousley the only one to make a half-century. Rew was run out for 1, Bohannon made just 8, and ex-England openers Lees and Jennings failed to convert decent starts.

In reply, India A bolted to 123/1 from 26 overs. Only Carse getting a wicket, although none of the bowlers appeared to be smashed out of the attack.

Just to add to the disappointment from a batting perspective - the Lions used 14 players on day one and batted deep. Those who didn't bat were all largely bowlers (Lawes, Carson and Parkinson).

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Post by KP_fan Fri Jan 12, 2024 8:15 pm

India declare their squad for first two tests
Ishan kishen is the only notable exclusion and Dhruv Jurel is the surprise 3rd WK in the squad....playing in the current Ind-A game

Ishan is an outstanding batsmen seemingly fallen out with team seniors /selectors somehow.

Jurel is a WK first .....haven't seen him.
Shami is out due to injury.
11 will pick itself with KL as WK....unfortunately a spinner of Kuldeep's quality will have to sit out
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Post by Duty281 Fri Jan 12, 2024 8:47 pm

No Shami is a loss for India, they've put Avesh Khan in for a possible test debut. Good FC stats.

The possible XI being: Rohit, Jaiswal, Gill, Kohli, Iyer, Rahul, Jadeja, Axar/Kuldeep, Ashwin, Bumrah, Siraj?

Should blow England away without too much bother.

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Post by king_carlos Fri Jan 12, 2024 8:55 pm

I'd be fascinated to see Kuldeep in Tests again now he's bowling notably quicker. His Tests record is actually fantastic. Though limited and mostly in conducive conditions. A fifer in Sydney though.

There's just no need though. Ashwin, Jadeja and Axar are an incredible trio and all bat. Plus two of them are world class fielders.

Realistically, even Washington Sundar at 5th choice would get into England's XI for this trip given their spin issues below Leach and the lack of all-rounders in the squad.

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Post by KP_fan Sat Jan 13, 2024 10:07 am

Ind A sent lions on a leather hunt today
Look at the playing conditions would show its a 15 players a side crap 2 day game
Which is why Eng thought it was OK to go for strokes even if it meant bowled out in 50 overs
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Post by KP_fan Sat Jan 13, 2024 10:46 am

Duty281 wrote:No Shami is a loss for India, they've put Avesh Khan in for a possible test debut. Good FC stats.

The possible XI being: Rohit, Jaiswal, Gill, Kohli, Iyer, Rahul, Jadeja, Axar/Kuldeep, Ashwin, Bumrah, Siraj?

Should blow England away without too much bother.

Blow away is a very likely scenario.......but there are two other scenarios that bring Eng into the game

A- India get suckered into making a lottery pitch, an absolute bunsen, spitting cobras from first session
This will eliminate the differential between the quality of spinners between both sides
Remember Root took a 5-8 for and Michael Clarke 6-9 in Ahmedabad and Chennai respectively  

B- India's top order is flaky......Rohit, Kohli, Iyer are inconsistent, Gill doesn't move his feet to come behind the line of ball... and Jaiswal a hit or miss.
Ind's spine will be KL, Jadeja, Ashwin and Axar with the bat.
So if Eng can blow away the Indian top order like they did in a couple of tests last time and they did in world cup.......then it will be game on....and Eng will be competitive.
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Post by guildfordbat Tue Jan 16, 2024 10:55 pm

Duty281 wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2024/jan/07/uk-cricket-fans-face-india-v-england-blackout-with-tv-deal-still-to-be-agreed

The drama we all expected. Just under 17 days until the start of the India-England test series and a TV deal has not yet been agreed to show the tests in the UK. This happened with the last series, in 2021, but Channel 4 stepped in at the last knockings. However, it appears Channel 4 are not so interested in doing the same thing this year.

Sky and TNT, therefore, seem to be the most likely, but Sky are currently focusing on T20 Cricket and TNT is apparently 'indifferent'. Could the BBC or ITV shock us and bid for the rights? Or will we all have to settle for a dodgy Internet stream?

I'm not 100% sure of the answer, but I think the last time an England test wasn't broadcast on TV in the UK was the three test series in New Zealand in 1988. ITV carried highlights of that series.

Strong suggestions tonight from the Telegraph that this series will be shown live in the UK by TNT (BT Sports as was). Apparently using world feed pictures and commentary during play with analysis during breaks from a TNT studio here.

Still to be confirmed but encouraging that ''the drama we all expected', as Duty rightly said, might be reaching a reasonable conclusion.


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Post by king_carlos Tue Jan 16, 2024 11:03 pm

According to Will MacPherson, usually bang on, the rights have been bought by a company in London who are then selling them onto a UK broadcaster. Which basically guarantees they'll get sold as even a cut price sale will be less of a hit to them than nothing. It's once again bargain basement stuff for what is meant to be a marquee series though.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Wed Jan 17, 2024 8:48 am

king_carlos wrote:According to Will MacPherson, usually bang on, the rights have been bought by a company in London who are then selling them onto a UK broadcaster. Which basically guarantees they'll get sold as even a cut price sale will be less of a hit to them than nothing. It's once again bargain basement stuff for what is meant to be a marquee series though.

A microcosm of why the game is in grave danger, in the hands of the BCCI
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Wed Jan 17, 2024 8:50 am

Elsewhere, the Lions start their second tour game against India A today - and are off to a good start batting first! 229-1 off 49 overs at tea, Jennings is 116*, Lees made 73 and Bohannon is 31* to date.

XI is;
Alex Lees
Keaton Jennings
Josh Bohannon (C)
James Rew
Ollie Robinson (wk)
Dan Mousley
Brydon Carse
Matthew Potts
Matthew Fisher
Jack Carson
Callum Parkinson
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Post by guildfordbat Wed Jan 17, 2024 9:35 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Elsewhere, the Lions start their second tour game against India A today - and are off to a good start batting first! 229-1 off 49 overs at tea, Jennings is 116*, Lees made 73 and Bohannon is 31* to date.

XI is;
Alex Lees
Keaton Jennings
Josh Bohannon (C)
James Rew
Ollie Robinson (wk)
Dan Mousley
Brydon Carse
Matthew Potts
Matthew Fisher
Jack Carson
Callum Parkinson

Thanks for the update, Olly.

Certainly a good start although it may be needed with what looks like a long tail. Shadowing the Test squad, perhaps.

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Post by Duty281 Wed Jan 17, 2024 3:47 pm

Ended up 382/3 after 82 overs! Funnily enough, only three sixes in that monster first day total.

Jennings caught for 154, Lees 73, and Bohannon unbeaten on 93. Rew will rue his 17, however. A chance missed to assert his presence.

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Post by Duty281 Wed Jan 17, 2024 7:08 pm

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2024/01/16/james-anderson-new-runup-india-tour-disappointing-ashes/

Spoiler:

Interview with Anderson in the Telegraph. Highlights why his longevity has been so amazing. After a hard summer at 41, with 183 tests behind him, almost all bowlers would pack it in. Not Jimmy. He's worked on improving his run-up to ensure he can be the best he can be in India, another typically unforgiving place for seamers.

He needs 10 more wickets for 700 in tests. 19 more to overtake Warne.

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Post by alfie Thu Jan 18, 2024 8:27 am

guildfordbat wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Elsewhere, the Lions start their second tour game against India A today - and are off to a good start batting first! 229-1 off 49 overs at tea, Jennings is 116*, Lees made 73 and Bohannon is 31* to date.

XI is;
Alex Lees
Keaton Jennings
Josh Bohannon (C)
James Rew
Ollie Robinson (wk)
Dan Mousley
Brydon Carse
Matthew Potts
Matthew Fisher
Jack Carson
Callum Parkinson

Thanks for the update, Olly.

Certainly a good start although it may be needed with what looks like a long tail. Shadowing the Test squad, perhaps.

Potts and Carson must have read those comments Smile

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Post by alfie Thu Jan 18, 2024 9:36 am

And the Lions seem to be roaring as Fisher has four wickets already to leave India A struggling at 33/4 , still 520 behind…

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Post by KP_fan Thu Jan 18, 2024 9:46 am

Who is this Fisher, running thru the India-A top order like a hot knife thru butter .....on what should be a docile pitch given Eng did 500-8 dec.
His FC record looks quite average.
Other than Anderson & Neil Foster, I have never seen any English seamer run thru any Ind or India-A batting line-ups
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Post by VTR Thu Jan 18, 2024 12:54 pm

He's another from the long conveyer belt of mostly injured seamers. He did play one Test a couple of years ago and was clearly even then picked more on attributes/potential rather than his actual record. That was the tour when Broad and Anderson were inexplicably rested/dropped. So he's still probably around 10th choice,  but given all the aforementioned injuries don't rule out another Test cap soon

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