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Premiership Round 10

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Post by Cumbrian Thu 28 Dec 2023, 3:35 pm

Friday
Bristol vs. Exeter Chiefs [19:45]- TNT Sport

Saturday
Saracens vs. Newcastle Falcons [15:00]
Northampton vs. Sale [15:05]- TNT Sport
Harlequins vs. Gloucester [17:30]

Sunday
Leicester vs. Bath [15:00]- TNT Sport
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Post by Cumbrian Thu 28 Dec 2023, 3:38 pm

Bristol Bears:

15. Max Malins (23 apps), 14. Gabriel Ibitoye (29 apps), 13. Virimi Vakatawa (9 apps), 12. Benhard Janse van Rensburg (12 apps), 11. Rich Lane (27 apps), 10. Callum Sheedy (162 apps), 9. Harry Randall (113 apps); 1. Jake Woolmore (141 apps), 2. Harry Thacker (111 apps), 3. Kyle Sinckler (49 apps), 4. James Dun (24 apps), 5. Joe Batley (51 apps), 6. Steven Luatua (117 apps), 7. Fitz Harding (62 apps) (c), 8. Magnus Bradbury (31 apps).

System players: 16. Gabriel Oghre (6 apps), 17. Max Lahiff (74 apps), 18. George Kloska (39 apps) 19. Josh Caulfield (13 apps), 20. Dan Thomas (139 apps), 21. Kieran Marmion (12 apps), 22. James Williams (29 apps), 23. Noah Heward (11 apps).

Exeter Chiefs:


15 Ben Hammersley, 14 Immanuel Feyi-Waboso, 13 Henry Slade, 12 Ollie Devoto, 11 Olly Woodburn, 10 Harvey Skinner, 9 Stu Townsend; 1 Nika Abuladze, 2 Dan Frost, 3 Josh Iosefa-Scott, 4 Rusi Tuima, 5 Dafydd Jenkins (c), 6 Ethan Roots, 7 Ross Vintcent, 8 Greg Fisilau

Replacements: 16 Max Norey, 17 Alec Hepburn, 18 Marcus Street, 19 Lewis Pearson, 20 Jacques Vermeulen, 21 Tom Cairns, 22 Joe Hawkins, 23 Zack Wimbush.
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Post by Cumbrian Fri 29 Dec 2023, 1:08 pm

Two pretty heavily rotated teams, but you have to fancy Leicester for this one.

Bath Rugby XV:

1 Juan Schoeman, 2 Hame Faiva, 3 Will Stuart, 4 Quinn Roux, 5 Josh McNally, 6 GJ van Velze, 7 Chris Cloete, 8 Jaco Coetzee, 9 Louis Schreuder, 10 Orlando Bailey, 11 Matt Gallagher, 12 Will Butt, 13 Max Ojomoh, 14 Tom de Glanville, 15 Sam Harris

Replacements: 16 John Stewart, 17 Thomas du Toit, 18 Johannes Jonker, 19 Ewan Richards, 20 Miles Reid, 21 Tom Carr-Smith, 22 Louie Hennessey, 23 Brendan Owen (debut)

Leicester Tigers:

1 James Cronin, 2 Julián Montoya (c), 3 Joe Heyes, 4 George Martin, 5 Ollie Chessum, 6 Matt Rogerson, 7 Tommy Reffell, 8 Jasper Wiese, 9 Tom Whiteley, 10 Handré Pollard, 11 Mike Brown, 12 Solomone Kata, 13 Dan Kelly, 14 Harry Simmons, 15 Freddie Steward

Replacements: 16 Finn Theobald-Thomas, 17 Francois van Wyk, 18 Will Hurd, 19 Harry Wells, 20 Kyle Hatherell, 21 Olly Cracknell, 22 Joe Powell, 23 Jamie Shillcock

There are a lot of Saffa's in the Bath line up.
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Post by doctor_grey Fri 29 Dec 2023, 2:47 pm

Northampton Saints v Sale Sharks

Neither team's best sides, but pretty close on paper.  Have to hope Sale doesn't run at Hutchinson all afternoon....
Where: Franklins Gardens
When:  Saturday 30th December 2023; 15:05
Tickets: SOLD OUT try the Saints and Sinners Ticket Exchange

Referee: Matthew Carley
Assistant referees: Craig Maxwell-Keys and Peter Allen
No. 4: James Clarke
TMO: David Rose

SAINTS
15 George Furbank (c)
14 Tommy Freeman
13 Burger Odendaal – Debut: Saint #2088
12 Rory Hutchinson
11 Ollie Sleightholme
10 Fin Smith
9 Alex Mitchell

1 Alex Waller
2 Sam Matavesi
3 Trevor Davison
4 Chunya Munga
5 Alex Coles – 100th Saints appearance
6 Angus Scott-Young
7 Tom Pearson
8 Juarno Augustus

Replacements:
16 Curtis Langdon
17 Tarek Haffar
18 Paul Hill
19 Alex Moon
20 Courtney Lawes
21 Sam Graham
22 Callum Braley
23 Tom Litchfield

SALE TEAM TO FACE SAINTS:
15 Joe Carpenter , 14 Tom Roebuck, 13 Sam James, 12 Rob du Preez, 11 Arron Reed, 10 George Ford, 9 Gus Warr; 1 Ross Harrison, 2 Luke Cowan-Dickie, 3 Nick Schonert, 4 Cobus Wiese, 5 Jonny Hill, 6 Ernst van Rhyn, 7 Ben Curry (c), 8 Jean-Luc du Preez.  
Replacements:  16 Tommy Taylor, 17 Tumy Onasanya, 18 Asher Opoku-Fordjour, 19 Josh Beaumont, 20 Sam Dugdale, 21 Nye Thomas, 22 Luke James, 23 Telusa Veainu.

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Post by doctor_grey Fri 29 Dec 2023, 9:11 pm

Brizzle-Exeter is not a bad game. Exeter continues to look like their rebuild is ahead of schedule.

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Post by Cumbrian Fri 29 Dec 2023, 9:41 pm

Bristol always seem to be the definition of a soft underbelly. They seem to spend a fortune on fancy dan backs but seem to settle for really limited forwards. I always think that they would be better served by spending extra money on a decent pack rather than spaffing millions of pounds on players like Charles Piatau or Semi Radradra. They really shouldn't be starting with Max Lahiff, even as a back up to Genge.
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Post by Heaf Fri 29 Dec 2023, 10:19 pm

I did it again - changed from Chiefs to Bears at the last minute - trust Chiefs to decide to break their appalling away record in the prem this week ...

On the plus side if we manage to move house this coming year they'll be my local premiership team - given Irish were my local team before they moved and went bust Chiefs will be hoping I don't jinx them ...

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Post by formerly known as Sam Fri 29 Dec 2023, 10:48 pm

Thacker, Genge, Yann Thomas and Vui all being injured doesn't help the Bristol tight five but they really do need to invest there next summer. Given the massive contract Lam signed doesn't expire until 2028 might be tough to make a change in that department.

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Post by Heaf Fri 29 Dec 2023, 11:00 pm

Just watching the replay and commentators again showing they don't understand the laws.

Chiefs defender drops on ball but loses it and ends up behind it. Next Chiefs player, who is in front of the original one, then drops on it and gets pinged.  They then start banging on about there not being a knock-on, which is irrelevant as the 2nd Chiefs player was in front of the last Chiefs player to touch the ball so was offside - it didn't matter if the 1st player had knocked it on or not.

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Post by Cumbrian Sat 30 Dec 2023, 3:30 pm

Saints vs. Sale has been painful to watch so far.
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Post by Cumbrian Sat 30 Dec 2023, 3:45 pm

Finally a bit of quality!
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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat 30 Dec 2023, 4:12 pm

Perhaps with the wind Northampton can exert a bit of pressure and force Sale out of their shell.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat 30 Dec 2023, 4:22 pm

Wow. Opoku-Fordjour lost a pen....

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat 30 Dec 2023, 4:22 pm

Harshly like!

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat 30 Dec 2023, 4:35 pm

And again. Getting a rough deal from Tempest.

Dragged down and pinged. Probably evening up the scrum decision in the first place.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat 30 Dec 2023, 4:37 pm

Finally the game livens up a little.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat 30 Dec 2023, 4:46 pm

Tough game for Opoku-Fordjour then if this is a pen try.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat 30 Dec 2023, 4:58 pm

I do not mind seeing that result. Sale played with so little ambition. Northampton seemed to wake up at 50 mins at least.

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Post by WELL-PAST-IT Sat 30 Dec 2023, 5:03 pm

Saints topping the table, at least until tomorrow.
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Post by WELL-PAST-IT Sat 30 Dec 2023, 5:07 pm

How did Saints front row hold up? I was a bit worried about them against a very good Sale front three, Saints back 5 is very good in depth.
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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat 30 Dec 2023, 5:23 pm

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:How did Saints front row hold up? I was a bit worried about them against a very good Sale front three, Saints back 5 is very good in depth.

When Opoku-Fordjour came on they got 3 pens. Not much changed through the game though the scrums went down pretty much straight away on every one
Tempest thought it was Sales fault.

Pearson was excellent. Carried so well. Though Freeman continues to carry about 3 players every time he time he gets the ball like a flanker.

Nb Carley even.


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Post by Heaf Sat 30 Dec 2023, 5:24 pm

Saints scrum won quite a few pens - not sure I remember Sale getting any surprisingly ...

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Post by Heaf Sat 30 Dec 2023, 6:18 pm

Sometimes you think Glaws just don't want to score ...

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Post by Heaf Sat 30 Dec 2023, 6:19 pm

Meanwhile Marcus Smith can't hit a cow's a*se with a banjo ...

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Post by Heaf Sat 30 Dec 2023, 6:40 pm

Wow Quins lucky there - hands clearly went forwards ... having said that Glaws first try was a bit suspect too. Put it down to Specsavers being shut over Christmas.


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Post by WELL-PAST-IT Sat 30 Dec 2023, 6:44 pm

Heaf wrote:Saints scrum won quite a few pens - not sure I remember Sale getting any surprisingly ...

Hence my question, I saw it as Saints weak point.

Pearson was excellent. Carried so well. Though Freeman continues to carry about 3 players every time he time he gets the ball like a flanker.

One of the reasons he is looking so good at centre (I know he started at 14 today), he can drag the yards out or if there is a chance of a gap, hit it hard and fast
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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat 30 Dec 2023, 7:56 pm

Just think Freeman is a miles better 13 even after the handful of appearances.it just accentuates all of his good points.

The 2 games on TV today were chalk and cheese weren't they.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sun 31 Dec 2023, 10:31 am

Freeman is a bit lad at 6ft2 and around 16 stone. Given his footwork and speed before contact he does take some stopping.

He's probably best at centre or fullback but more than capable on the wing. He's very good under the high ball and at contesting kicks. Knows how to finish as well. I'll be shocked if he's not named in the EPS next week.

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Post by Heaf Sun 31 Dec 2023, 3:03 pm

Dickson starting early by ignoring a clearly not straight throw in ...

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Post by Heaf Sun 31 Dec 2023, 3:09 pm

Ooops - Tigers throw an intercept for Bath to run the length

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Post by doctor_grey Sun 31 Dec 2023, 4:11 pm

Well now, here we are at halftime betwixt Leicester and Bath.  And I really appreciate how Tigers and Bath have conspired to ensure THE Northampton Saints are top of the table at the end of 2023.  

Yes, certainly aware we are only 1/2 way through the season.  And yes,  the top 6 clubs are all either 7 wins and 3 losses or 6 up and 4 down.  And separated by only 3 points (giving Leicester the BP win and Barf a big nothing for today's game).  

But another excuse to celebrate because this could all change next year (next week).  Saints next game is at Exeter....

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Post by Cumbrian Sun 31 Dec 2023, 4:39 pm

If we're going on a game-by-game basis Ojomoh has played himself out of the squad this week, he has had a stinker.

He hasn't been helped by Bath sending such a weakened side to Welford Road, which really shouldn't be happening, a lot of people paid good money to go and watch a contest.
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Post by Heaf Sun 31 Dec 2023, 4:59 pm

To be honest it may have been a bit closer but for some very odd officiating (as usual when Mr D is in the middle) - worked out perfectly for my Superbru though so can't complain Wink

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun 31 Dec 2023, 6:34 pm

Bloody hell Dickson is a poor ref.

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Post by WELL-PAST-IT Sun 31 Dec 2023, 6:55 pm

Thanks Tigers
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Post by formerly known as Sam Sun 31 Dec 2023, 7:14 pm

Heaf wrote:To be honest it may have been a bit closer but for some very odd officiating (as usual when Mr D is in the middle) - worked out perfectly for my Superbru though so can't complain Wink

It might also been a much larger gap between the two. Dickson reverting back to his level of ability from a couple of years back for this display.

Tigers looked to have brought some new systems to the party in attack during the first half and then just abandoned them entirely in the second which was odd and frustrating.

Shame Bath rested so many of the big names but that pack was still very experienced and should probably have stood up a lot better.

Ollie Chessum was in outstanding form which bodes well for England and the 6N.

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Post by doctor_grey Sun 31 Dec 2023, 8:15 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:
Heaf wrote:To be honest it may have been a bit closer but for some very odd officiating (as usual when Mr D is in the middle) - worked out perfectly for my Superbru though so can't complain Wink

It might also been a much larger gap between the two. Dickson reverting back to his level of ability from a couple of years back for this display.

Tigers looked to have brought some new systems to the party in attack during the first half and then just abandoned them entirely in the second which was odd and frustrating.

Shame Bath rested so many of the big names but that pack was still very experienced and should probably have stood up a lot better.

Ollie Chessum was in outstanding form which bodes well for England and the 6N.
Bath are officially on my 'S' list. Actually I am happy Tigers won which cemented Saints at the top of the table. And that may only last until next weekend when Saints travel to Sandy Park. But I was looking forward to watching a real contest and built my morning around it. Got a bunch of things done then was in front of the tv with my three egg omelet and a gallon of coffee for kickoff at 10:00am. I guess I am still waiting for the real contest to emerge.....

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Post by Heaf Sun 31 Dec 2023, 11:25 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:
Heaf wrote:To be honest it may have been a bit closer but for some very odd officiating (as usual when Mr D is in the middle) - worked out perfectly for my Superbru though so can't complain Wink

It might also been a much larger gap between the two. Dickson reverting back to his level of ability from a couple of years back for this display.

Tigers looked to have brought some new systems to the party in attack during the first half and then just abandoned them entirely in the second which was odd and frustrating.

Shame Bath rested so many of the big names but that pack was still very experienced and should probably have stood up a lot better.

Ollie Chessum was in outstanding form which bodes well for England and the 6N.

Indeed - always a bit of a lottery when Mr D has the whistle ...

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Post by formerly known as Sam Mon 01 Jan 2024, 8:49 am

doctor_grey wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:
Heaf wrote:To be honest it may have been a bit closer but for some very odd officiating (as usual when Mr D is in the middle) - worked out perfectly for my Superbru though so can't complain Wink

It might also been a much larger gap between the two. Dickson reverting back to his level of ability from a couple of years back for this display.

Tigers looked to have brought some new systems to the party in attack during the first half and then just abandoned them entirely in the second which was odd and frustrating.

Shame Bath rested so many of the big names but that pack was still very experienced and should probably have stood up a lot better.

Ollie Chessum was in outstanding form which bodes well for England and the 6N.
Bath are officially on my 'S' list.  Actually I am happy Tigers won which cemented Saints at the top of the table.  And that may only last until next weekend when Saints travel to Sandy Park.  But I was looking forward to watching a real contest and built my morning around it.  Got a bunch of things done then was in front of the tv with my three egg omelet and a gallon of coffee for kickoff at 10:00am.  I guess I am still waiting for the real contest to emerge.....  

Yeah I can't imagine Tigers were overly impressed that with their biggest crowd since pre COVID, Bath decided to send a young backline and a rotated pack. They'd have wanted a few bigger match ups. Given Bath's injuries in the backrow that might have been limited in that area I suppose. I think we all wanted a more blockbuster contest.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Tue 02 Jan 2024, 10:07 am

I've seen a few comments that teams should be fined for fielding weakened teams and Healy was saying reduce squad sizes and limit subs....

Can't say I'd like to see either or expect them to work.

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Post by Recwatcher16 Tue 02 Jan 2024, 5:16 pm

Actually thought the game could have been a lot closer for Bath.  The Tigers tactic of taking out defenders beyond the ball in the ruck was pretty effective for creating subsequent space,  but ultimately the traditional Tigers maul did the damage. Although the yellow card was pretty harsh.  Thought for a minute I saw Neil Back, head down at the tail of one morass of green players....😉

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Post by Geordie Tue 02 Jan 2024, 8:29 pm

Wow just seen our young Flanker Guy Pepper made 34 tackles v Saracens...joint all time record for the prem....

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Post by formerly known as Sam Tue 02 Jan 2024, 10:17 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:I've seen a few comments that teams should be fined for fielding weakened teams and Healy was saying reduce squad sizes and limit subs....

Can't say I'd like to see either or expect them to work.

Most sides rotate players during the season, Tigers did it away to Stade for instance and have rested one or two at other times. Dan Cole was given the Bath game off. It was the more the case that Bath rested so many in one go in what was traditionally a big fixture.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Wed 03 Jan 2024, 9:45 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:I've seen a few comments that teams should be fined for fielding weakened teams and Healy was saying reduce squad sizes and limit subs....

Can't say I'd like to see either or expect them to work.

Most sides rotate players during the season, Tigers did it away to Stade for instance and have rested one or two at other times. Dan Cole was given the Bath game off. It was the more the case that Bath rested so many in one go in what was traditionally a big fixture.

Yeah appreciate that but I'm very much in favour of clubs being able to manage the workload of their mown players how they see fit. Just saw quite a lot of comments wanting to somehow fine Bath and it seemed a bit ott.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Wed 03 Jan 2024, 9:46 pm

Good attendance stats for the prem over Christmas breaking the record of viewers. '212,571 fans attended live games with just under 2 million watching rounds 9 and 10 on TV'

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Post by formerly known as Sam Thu 04 Jan 2024, 5:06 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:I've seen a few comments that teams should be fined for fielding weakened teams and Healy was saying reduce squad sizes and limit subs....

Can't say I'd like to see either or expect them to work.

Most sides rotate players during the season, Tigers did it away to Stade for instance and have rested one or two at other times. Dan Cole was given the Bath game off. It was the more the case that Bath rested so many in one go in what was traditionally a big fixture.

Yeah appreciate that but I'm very much in favour of clubs being able to manage the workload of their mown players how they see fit. Just saw quite a lot of comments wanting to somehow fine Bath and it seemed a bit ott.

Yeah it would have been nice if they hadn't rested quite so many but might point was that plenty of teams do it and had Bath not picked such a profile game to do it then they wouldn't have had the same minor backlash.

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