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Scotland - 6 Nations Victim Support Group Thread

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Post by George Carlin Wed 24 Jan 2024, 9:43 am

Fixtures for this year's jamboree:

3 February 2024
16:45 GMT
Wales v Scotland
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
Referee: Ben O'Keeffe (New Zealand)

10 February 2024
14:15 GMT
Scotland v France
Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh
Referee: Nic Berry (Australia)

24 February 2024
16:45 GMT
Scotland v England
Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh
Referee: Andrew Brace (Ireland)

9 March 2024
15:15 CET (UTC+1)
Italy v Scotland
Stadio Olimpico, Rome
Referee: Angus Gardner (Australia)

16 March 2024
16:45 WET
Ireland v Scotland
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
Referee: Matthew Carley (England)

Let's get our post-traumatic stress disorder and excuses in early.
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Post by jimbopip Wed 24 Jan 2024, 9:48 am

My name is Jimbo and I am locked in a cycle of hope and despair.Scotland - 6 Nations Victim Support Group Thread  3933776953 picard

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Post by jimbopip Wed 24 Jan 2024, 10:15 am

Let's get the emotional roller coaster started.
I think we're not quite the finished article as a team. By which I mean that there are parts of the tam where we have nailed on-start for just about any side players but then we have parts of the team where no-one is really putting their hands up and saying they are the best in that position and good enough to be sure of their place. I know no-one should be complacent but there are players in every side who are pretty much gauranteed to start.



Front row; Schooey and Ragnar are definites; Turner and Ashman are not going to let us down.

Back Row; Fagerson, Dempsey, Darge, Mbawza. All definites. Bayliss, Christie,Crosby and Skinner are all a step down.

Stand Off; Dancer, if he's not the best in the world, he's definitely in the top one.

Centres; Huipulotu but there is a big drop off to Stafford-Redpath.

Back three; chin Duhan and ADHD Kid are top drawer, Balirhorn MIGHT become so. But the drop off to Rowe-Seaman-Speedy is vertiginous.

The eagle-eyed among you will have noticed I haven't mentioned Second Row or scrum half.

I'm not sure which pairing is our out and out first choice. I'm not convinced any one player has put his hand up and claimed a jersey.

As for 9, we have three good players...could one of them be considered outstanding on recent form?



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Post by Hazel Sapling Wed 24 Jan 2024, 11:56 am

Agree with Jimbo on almost everything.

Second row...I hope we have a Cummings-R Gray combo with Skinner on the bench. Gilchrist and Young are powder puffs in the tackle and not strong enough in the set piece to make up for it. He is going to pick Gilchrist isn't he?

SH I would have G Horne to start and Price to bench. Price-Healy is a club combo. White vs G Horne is a gut feeling. White has been playing well for Toulon but they have been losing games lately. G Horne is confident and playing so well in a good Glasgow side that he pushed Price out to Edinburgh.

Back row, I actually want to see Christie in. He has played well for Sarries and is abrasive. Christie will have a point to prove to keep one of MF, Darge, Mbawza or Dempsey out and the Wales pack under Gatland is always physical. It will also light the fire under those guys to keep performance high or there is a youngster gunning for the position and Toonie is happy to pick him.

For the front row, I would also like to see Hepburn on the bench against Wales. Get the monkey off his back against a fairly weak set of props (after Italy, probably the weakest we will face in the Six Nations on paper).

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Post by NeilyBroon Wed 24 Jan 2024, 12:45 pm

As always hazel, pick of the sensible comments!

This means Toonie is going to pull out his famous line "I don't give a f**k about those guys and what they're going to do" and pick Gilchrist, young and a surprise inclusion of Darcy Rae.

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Post by jimbopip Wed 24 Jan 2024, 12:48 pm

NeilyBroon wrote:As always hazel, pick of the sensible comments!

This means Toonie is going to pull out his famous line "I don't give a f**k about those guys and what they're going to do" and pick Gilchrist, young and a surprise inclusion of Darcy Rae.

sure, but which two would form the most effective second row?

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Post by NeilyBroon Wed 24 Jan 2024, 12:59 pm

jimbopip wrote:
NeilyBroon wrote:As always hazel, pick of the sensible comments!

This means Toonie is going to pull out his famous line "I don't give a f**k about those guys and what they're going to do" and pick Gilchrist, young and a surprise inclusion of Darcy Rae.

sure, but which two would form the most effective second row?

Rae and young obviously.

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Post by Boston Exile Wed 24 Jan 2024, 3:42 pm

Beating Wales in Cardiff is in the head rather than skills. 2 years ago should have hammered them but they just weren't attitudinally right (an annoying theme during GT's reign). I would say to them simply this, if you were playing against any of these guys for your club would you be bothered by it or would you go out and execute as you can (focus, no fear). Currently no Welsh region should be beating Glasgow or Edinburgh.

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Post by RDW Wed 24 Jan 2024, 8:24 pm

Anyone watched the Netflix series yet? Scotland is first episode. Russell getting hyped up majorly during the episode and in all social media afterwards.

Makes me worried...

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Post by George Carlin Wed 24 Jan 2024, 8:55 pm

Yes, I saw the first one - I had forgotten what a spanking we gave Wales at Murrayfield.
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Post by bsando Wed 24 Jan 2024, 10:33 pm

Watched first three episodes. I found the ones about other teams and players much more interesting so far. I know enough about Russell now to not really find episode one that enlightening. His messi joke was funny though.. it was a joke right?

I had no idea negri was from Zimbabwe originally. Porter had an interesting backstory as well. The thumping sound effects with every collision is quite entertaining. What is probably missing so far is any sort of interaction with the fans and history of the tournament. Also, if you follow rugby it all makes sense but if you don’t know the rules it must be very confusing to watch.

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Post by TJ Wed 24 Jan 2024, 10:44 pm

I've watched a few bath games recently.  Redpath is playing very well indeed IMO - not much between him and Huipiloto

Gilcrest is just too much of a penalty machine and always seems do do it at the worst time. I would be happy if he never played for Scotland again

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Post by mikey_dragon Thu 25 Jan 2024, 10:59 am

Scotland have a good chance of winning here in Cardiff. In the past, I always thought these games were won by who was more aggressive and physical. If you look at the recent game where Edinburgh physically dominated Scarlets, then that doesn't seem to be an issue any more. It wouldn't be so bad if less Scarlets were picked, but Gatland now seems clueless and finished, hence the squad selection being all over the place.

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Post by mountain man Thu 25 Jan 2024, 11:07 am

RDW wrote:Anyone watched the Netflix series yet? Scotland is first episode. Russell getting hyped up majorly during the episode and in all social media afterwards.

Makes me worried...

I've watched a few episodes. My impression was Townsend is over the rift with Russell but not sure Russell is completely. Might be wrong but that was what I thought.

Overall some good stuff in there. I liked the French episode, Galtiere a very interesting man.

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Post by Boston Exile Thu 25 Jan 2024, 12:00 pm

Hope you are right Mikey, we have a coach who I’m not convinced gets them right mentally That is something Gatland does seem good at. Wales are a dangerous animal as low expectations so can throw caution to the wind.

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Post by Boston Exile Thu 25 Jan 2024, 12:00 pm

Hope you are right Mikey, we have a coach who I’m not convinced gets them right mentally That is something Gatland does seem good at. Wales are a dangerous animal as low expectations so can throw caution to the wind.

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Post by bsando Thu 25 Jan 2024, 12:50 pm

Yeah I tend agree, Townsend excels at the details but appears ( to me at least ) as a bit stubborn and awkward being the voice the players have to listen to. He would be a good teacher.

Gatland has grit and knows how to fire up his squad, create a bit of niggle. I think he has come back in at a really bad time and that will hurt his legacy but his passion for Welsh rugby is evident and the players clearly admire him as a coach.

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Post by jimbopip Thu 25 Jan 2024, 3:33 pm

Gilchrist banned for the Wales game.
Gray- Cummings to start would be my bet.

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Post by bsando Thu 25 Jan 2024, 6:46 pm

I’d have gone for that anyway, they’re playing well for Glasgow. So young and skinner on the bench if it’s a 6-2 split?

Back row could be an interesting one. On Scottish club form Fagerson, Ritchie, Dempsey and Crosbie probably merit match day selection. Christie and Bayliss could add a bit of spice to those tried and tested players. Darge to start at openside would be a big call. Fascinated to see who they choose.

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Post by jimbopip Thu 25 Jan 2024, 6:50 pm

I think it might be a week to early for Darge, I'm sure he isn't fully cleared for full training yet.

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Post by bsando Thu 25 Jan 2024, 9:02 pm

No name for Darge Jimbo?

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Post by NeilyBroon Thu 25 Jan 2024, 10:48 pm

bsando wrote:No name for Darge Jimbo?

Not Earl Grey?

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Post by George Carlin Fri 26 Jan 2024, 5:55 am

NeilyBroon wrote:
bsando wrote:No name for Darge Jimbo?

Not Earl Grey?
Dargey Bargey?
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Post by jimbopip Fri 26 Jan 2024, 8:40 am

NeilyBroon wrote:
bsando wrote:No name for Darge Jimbo?

Not Earl Grey?

OK Headscratch This one has beaten me.

Remember guys, really obscure nicknames are not my cup of tea. warning

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Post by EWT Spoons Fri 26 Jan 2024, 8:53 am

jimbopip wrote:
NeilyBroon wrote:
bsando wrote:No name for Darge Jimbo?

Not Earl Grey?

OK Headscratch This one has beaten me.

Remember guys, really obscure nicknames are not my cup of tea. warning

Dar-geeling...

I'll get my coat

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Post by jimbopip Fri 26 Jan 2024, 9:18 am

Getting back to the actual rugby...

I think the only real selection conundrum for the Tombola will be who to bench.

Schooey-Turner-Ragnar
Gray-Cummings
Fagerson-Dempsey-?

White
Dancer
Huipoluto
Duhan-Blarehorn-?

Will he go 6/2 or 5/3?
Toonie tends to prefer 6/2 which might suggest Healey (who is certain to be in the 23 now that we are shorn of Haircut) and Seaman (who can cover 12-14). This would also allow Rowe or Speedy McReedy to start. I'd go with the Glasgow man. Every time.
I just checked the SRU web site and neither Hepburn nor Mick The Miller (that's an old one!!!) are listed on The Players...but we know they exist. So is the 16-18 Bhatti-Ashman-Nel or do we go full Tombola with Hepburn-Ian Rush-Mick The Miller? Hepburn might seem the safest bet but.... Ragnar could play 70 minutes and then MTM gets a relatively comfortable debut. (If we're winning at that point). Also, Bhatti is in very good form and dropping him might prove counterproductive.
I haven't picked a 7. I think if Mbawza is fit he gets the nod and we see Bayliss and Crosbie as back row cover with Principal for the second row. If Mbawza is scratched then I think Christie could start.

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Post by NeilyBroon Fri 26 Jan 2024, 10:10 am

EWT Spoons wrote:
jimbopip wrote:
NeilyBroon wrote:
bsando wrote:No name for Darge Jimbo?

Not Earl Grey?

OK Headscratch This one has beaten me.

Remember guys, really obscure nicknames are not my cup of tea. warning

Dar-geeling...

I'll get my coat

Think you win prize for most tenuous link! I didn't expect anyone to get that!

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Post by NeilyBroon Fri 26 Jan 2024, 10:11 am

jimbopip wrote:Getting back to the actual rugby...

I think the only real selection conundrum for the Tombola will be who to bench.

Schooey-Turner-Ragnar
Gray-Cummings
Fagerson-Dempsey-?

White
Dancer
Huipoluto
Duhan-Blarehorn-?

Will he go 6/2 or 5/3?
Toonie tends to prefer 6/2 which might suggest Healey (who is certain to be in the 23 now that we are shorn of Haircut) and Seaman (who can cover 12-14). This would also allow Rowe or Speedy McReedy to start. I'd go with the Glasgow man. Every time.
I just checked the SRU web site and neither Hepburn nor Mick The Miller (that's an old one!!!) are listed on The Players...but we know they exist. So is the 16-18 Bhatti-Ashman-Nel or do we go full Tombola with Hepburn-Ian Rush-Mick The Miller? Hepburn might seem the safest bet but.... Ragnar could play 70 minutes and then MTM gets a relatively comfortable debut. (If we're winning at that point). Also, Bhatti is in very good form and dropping him might prove counterproductive.
I haven't picked a 7. I think if Mbawza is fit he gets the nod and we see Bayliss and Crosbie as back row cover with Principal for the second row. If Mbawza is scratched then I think Christie could start.

Think Christie would be a great starter. He'll be the one to watch for us this year imo.

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Post by jimbopip Fri 26 Jan 2024, 10:17 am

NeilyBroon wrote:
jimbopip wrote:Getting back to the actual rugby...

I think the only real selection conundrum for the Tombola will be who to bench.

Schooey-Turner-Ragnar
Gray-Cummings
Fagerson-Dempsey-?

White
Dancer
Huipoluto
Duhan-Blarehorn-?

Will he go 6/2 or 5/3?
Toonie tends to prefer 6/2 which might suggest Healey (who is certain to be in the 23 now that we are shorn of Haircut) and Seaman (who can cover 12-14). This would also allow Rowe or Speedy McReedy to start. I'd go with the Glasgow man. Every time.
I just checked the SRU web site and neither Hepburn nor Mick The Miller (that's an old one!!!) are listed on The Players...but we know they exist. So is the 16-18 Bhatti-Ashman-Nel or do we go full Tombola with Hepburn-Ian Rush-Mick The Miller? Hepburn might seem the safest bet but.... Ragnar could play 70 minutes and then MTM gets a relatively comfortable debut. (If we're winning at that point). Also, Bhatti is in very good form and dropping him might prove counterproductive.
I haven't picked a 7. I think if Mbawza is fit he gets the nod and we see Bayliss and Crosbie as back row cover with Principal for the second row. If Mbawza is scratched then I think Christie could start.

Think Christie would be a great starter. He'll be the one to watch for us this year imo.

I think Christie has the same Nigglybarstewardinabadmood gene than mbawza has.

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Post by NeilyBroon Fri 26 Jan 2024, 10:26 am

jimbopip wrote:
NeilyBroon wrote:
jimbopip wrote:Getting back to the actual rugby...

I think the only real selection conundrum for the Tombola will be who to bench.

Schooey-Turner-Ragnar
Gray-Cummings
Fagerson-Dempsey-?

White
Dancer
Huipoluto
Duhan-Blarehorn-?

Will he go 6/2 or 5/3?
Toonie tends to prefer 6/2 which might suggest Healey (who is certain to be in the 23 now that we are shorn of Haircut) and Seaman (who can cover 12-14). This would also allow Rowe or Speedy McReedy to start. I'd go with the Glasgow man. Every time.
I just checked the SRU web site and neither Hepburn nor Mick The Miller (that's an old one!!!) are listed on The Players...but we know they exist. So is the 16-18 Bhatti-Ashman-Nel or do we go full Tombola with Hepburn-Ian Rush-Mick The Miller? Hepburn might seem the safest bet but.... Ragnar could play 70 minutes and then MTM gets a relatively comfortable debut. (If we're winning at that point). Also, Bhatti is in very good form and dropping him might prove counterproductive.
I haven't picked a 7. I think if Mbawza is fit he gets the nod and we see Bayliss and Crosbie as back row cover with Principal for the second row. If Mbawza is scratched then I think Christie could start.

Think Christie would be a great starter. He'll be the one to watch for us this year imo.

I think Christie has the same Nigglybarstewardinabadmood gene than mbawza has.

If he's the rocket up the arse that Ritchie needs I'm all for it. Also hopefully we'll see Ritchie get some form back after losing captaincy. He may be a better twilight years captain, a la John Barclay.

He reminds me a bit of Owen Farrell in that regard, fierce competitor at all costs, including relationship with the ref. Finn is much better at talking to the ref amicably. His reputation proceeds him, he is the Messi of rugby after all.

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Post by RDW Fri 26 Jan 2024, 10:29 am

Ritchie has been at the epicentre of all our great performance in recent years. I'm nervous of the prospect of him not being involved in the 6N..

Fagerson - Darge - Dempsey?

Not so sure

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Post by NeilyBroon Fri 26 Jan 2024, 1:48 pm

RDW wrote:Ritchie has been at the epicentre of all our great performance in recent years. I'm nervous of the prospect of him not being involved in the 6N..

Fagerson - Darge - Dempsey?

Not so sure

Last 6Ns maybe, world cup I'd say definitely not.

I reckon Christie will at least be like for like, if he's battling it out with a Ritchie who has rediscovered his form we'll be in a good place.

I agree that darge being fast tracked as a starter after injury fills me with nerves but we'll just have to see how he plays.

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Post by Hazel Sapling Fri 26 Jan 2024, 1:55 pm

It is awkward if Christie replaces Darge. We would have three 6'1-6'2 high work rate, power carriers but with Tuipulotu and Cummings likely starting, we would be overstocked on carriers (a weird problem for us to have). I know all three of MF, Dempsey and Christie do work in the ruck but it feels unbalanced and leaving us exposed in the defensive ruck and at the line-out.

I like the idea of Dempsey coming off the bench at the 50th minute (Toonie can wait too long to make subs sometimes). Having a Christie - Ritchie - MF backrow gives us a lineout option and more work in the defensive ruck. It would also be as abrasive as we can get for a backrow.

If Darge is fit, I would retain Christie at BS. Line-out may be a bit of a problem as Wales will have Wainwright as third jumper but our ruck speed should be excellent against the Welsh flankers and we have enough carriers to get them on the backfoot...particularly as we don't have Gilchrist walking into contact and going nowhere.

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Post by RDW Fri 26 Jan 2024, 9:32 pm

We're forgetting Crosbie who is a Toonie favourite. His unique selling point compared to the other options is his height to be a proper 3rd jumper.

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Post by Highland Shaun Fri 26 Jan 2024, 10:55 pm

Just had a quick look on The Offside Line and read an interesting article on Arron Reed who incidentally states that Gus Warr is leaning towards England!

Oh and I'm getting worried that Gregor is going to do a Jurgen Klopp soon, both have been in their roles for 8+ years and that does take a toll as is the case with Jurgen.

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Post by bsando Sat 27 Jan 2024, 10:10 am

I’d like it if he could do a Jurgen Klopp and win us a big trophy this six nations.

As Dodson is stepping down it’s hard to gauge what a poor performance from Scotland this Six Nations would entail. Presumably it’ll be business as usual despite the impending departure of El Doddo.


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Post by Highland Shaun Sat 27 Jan 2024, 7:02 pm

Hopefully the players that were in Premiership action this weekend managed to stay injury free, especially Finn Russell as he's key to us winning in Cardiff for the first time in a while.

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Post by jimbopip Sat 27 Jan 2024, 8:03 pm

Finn came through in one piece. Redpath had a quiet game apparently. Christie was MOM for Sarries.
Crosby, Christie, Bayliss and Mbawza could all miss out against Wales.
Bradbury isn't even in the squad.
It's mad Ted. Just mad.

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Post by RDW Sat 27 Jan 2024, 8:33 pm

TBF Redpath was playing 13 which isn't where he plays best.

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Post by BigGee Sat 27 Jan 2024, 9:29 pm

Not always been Bradbury biggest fan, but he played a cracking game today for sure.

You gotta think Andy Christie has played his wsy into the team though. His third MoM in 8 games and he certainly was a standout in a very decent Sarries performance.

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Post by NeilyBroon Sun 28 Jan 2024, 9:56 am

BigGee wrote:Not always been Bradbury biggest fan, but he played a cracking game today for sure.

You gotta think Andy Christie has played his wsy into the team though. His third MoM in 8 games and he certainly was a standout in a very decent Sarries performance.

You'd hope Toonie has at least been in touch with Maggie saying have a bag packed. I think given our forward options it's definitely worth having another.

Christie has been superb this season, I think he's the primary reason Ritchie hasn't got the captaincy tbh.

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Post by RDW Mon 29 Jan 2024, 9:46 am


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Post by Hazel Sapling Mon 29 Jan 2024, 10:52 am

Not sure on Bradbury. Bayliss has barely played for Bath and got picked over him. Toonie seems to have made the call that he can't rely on Bradbury after giving him so many chances so short of a serious injury crisis, I can't see him coming back in for the Six Nations.

It is a shame as Bradbury is in his prime but maybe his route back is playing the summer tour and showing an improved work-rate.


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Post by jimbopip Tue 30 Jan 2024, 10:30 am

Ireland and France re weaker than last year.
England and Wales are unimproved.
Italy are still on an upward trend.

It really could be our year.

Typical four days to go pre 6 Nations malady.
Someone talk me off this ledge.


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Post by George Carlin Tue 30 Jan 2024, 10:42 am

jimbopip wrote:Ireland and France re weaker than last year.
England and Wales are unimproved.
Italy are still on an upward trend.

It really could be our year.

Typical four days to go pre 6 Nations malady.
Someone talk me off this ledge.

Jim, don't start - you'll have everyone believing. picard
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Post by NeilyBroon Tue 30 Jan 2024, 11:54 am

One game at a time lads, if we get past Wales away then that's a good start!

France we can beat but we'll see what our injury tally/form is like!

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Post by BigGee Tue 30 Jan 2024, 9:33 pm

Latest injury update from Scotland camp

Darge expected to be fit for round one or two, he is already running apparently. You suspect it will be round two though.

Nelly is not so bad and it is not expected to be a long term problem. I can see him sitting out first 2 rounds though, if for no other reason than to try some other options.

Ben White is apparently fine following his knock last weekend.

Overall, it could be a lot worse!


Sebastian is fit and taking a full part in squad training.

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Post by sensisball Tue 30 Jan 2024, 11:40 pm

But how long is it since Sebastian played? A month or is it more?
Doesn't strike me as someone who gains match fitness very quickly. Might be less of a risk picking the new Northampton lad for the bench ?

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Post by Mcsweens Wed 31 Jan 2024, 12:20 am

We haven't won in Cardiff since 2002. Comfortably a generation. (getting closer to 2 generations in some parts of Dundee or Inverclyde).

I was watching that Netflix show and ruminating on how rugby has changed, and have essentially come to the conclusion that it was an entirely different sport back then in what was still the early days of professionalism.

If Scotland win on the weekend they will truly be history makers, pioneers, creating something for the ages. Nothing says early February quite like hoping Gatland makes a tit of himself, but I can't see it. Head says Wales. Heart is refusing to engage. Pancreas admits the possibility of a Scotland win. Gall Bladder notes Scotland's historic mental infirmity.

Wales by 4

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Post by bsando Wed 31 Jan 2024, 7:26 am

I just hope we don’t try and ‘win it’ in the first twenty minutes.

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