Euro Rugby Semi Finals - For England and Saint George!

First topic message reminder :

Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more;
Or close the wall up with our English dead.
In peace there's nothing so becomes a man
As modest stillness and humility:
But when the blast of RUGBY blows in our ears,
Then imitate the action of the tiger;
Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood,
Disguise fair nature with hard-favour'd rage and drive the cheating fockers off the ruck;

That you are worth your breeding; which I doubt not;
For there is none of you so mean and base,
That hath not noble lustre in your eyes.
I see you stand like Saintly greyhounds in the slips,
Straining upon the start. The game's afoot:
Follow your spirit, and upon this charge
Cry 'God for Marcus and Fin, Courtney, England, and Saint George (Furbank)!'

We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne’er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition:
And gentlemen in England now a-bed
Shall think themselves accursed they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Courtney's day.
__________________________________________

Now that I got that put of my system:
https://www.google.com/search?q=michael+buffer+let%27s+get+ready&sca_esv=cd1cd8ba04cfc6b9&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS855US855&tbm=vid&ei=_wo0ZtXZFciBhbIPxeSKWA&start=40&sa=N&ved=2ahUKEwiV1bvm-e-FAxXIQEEAHUWyAgs4HhDw0wN6BAgYEB8&biw=1229&bih=556&dpr=1.56#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:2bd6118c,vid:ZVm5qad8HLM,st:0

Recwatcher16 wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:Surprised there hasn't been much outrage at the possibility of Quins having a home final if they beat Toulouse. Just kidding not surprised.

That's a good point.  Frankly, it never occurred to me one way or another and didn't connect the dots it was possible until I saw your post.  But now that I have read it, it really does seem pretty obvious and the kind of thing someone in the media could make a ruckus over.  But it is conceivable that Leinster, Stade Francais, Edinburgh, and Bulls/Sharks could have a home final in addition to Harlequins in the years ahead.

Thats really because the media in England only really have a big whinge about it when Leinster have a home final. It isnt an issue for me either, the bigger issue is how they select the final venue and how it hasnt been held in Italy yet for example while there have now been five finals in England, two France, one Ireland, one Scotland, none Wales.

Are you actually saying a fixture in north London is a home fixture for Quins?? Are you actually comparing Dublin with London ??
By public transport it would take you a couple of hours to get from the Stoop to White Hart Lane. Tottenham is a little different to Twickenham High St....

Yep 100% I am.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:Travelling time from Twickenham to Tottenham ground 1hr 20 mins

Travelling time RDS to Croke Park 40 mins

A game can reasonably considered a home fixture in the same city as the team in question. London has excellent transport connections.

What is a disgrace is the lack of games in Italy

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Have neutral city venue for the semi finals. One each for the two competitions then a shared host city for the finals. Makes travel plans easier for fans and teams. You can spread it around three countries each year so everyone can get in on the action.

Neutral cities aka English cities 9 times put of 10, no thanks.

Only if all participating nations get an equal share of the fixtures, or at the very least an equal share based on the number of teams in their league.

geoff999rugby wrote:Only if all participating nations get an equal share of the fixtures, or at the very least an equal share based on the number of teams in their league.

Well that was the point in saying spread it around. Three cities per year means you could hit at least five of th 6N every other year (allowing for SA or spreading the love to e.g. Northern Spain again to occasionally drop in).

Grand finals will be somewhat more limited as you need favourable flights and 80k stadiums but semi finals is easier to move around and get more cities involved.

I think I might be in a minority.  But I think if a team earns the right to host home games, then let them put the semi-finals wherever they want, within certain limits.    

As a Saint fan, there is no doubt having the Leinster match at Croke Park helped Leinster.  But they earned the right to host and I would rather see 80k fans attending a game than 20k in a band box.  Especially as Euro Semi-Finals are big games (Rugby needs more big games to market the best of the sport), and the two semi-finals were great games.  

Regarding the final not having been in Italy, that seems a missed opportunity and should be changed.

doctor_grey wrote:I think I might be in a minority.  But I think if a team earns the right to host home games, then let them put the semi-finals wherever they want, within certain limits.    

As a Saint fan, there is no doubt having the Leinster match at Croke Park helped Leinster.  But they earned the right to host and I would rather see 80k fans attending a game than 20k in a band box.  Especially as Euro Semi-Finals are big games (Rugby needs more big games to market the best of the sport), and the two semi-finals were great games.  

Regarding the final not having been in Italy, that seems a missed opportunity and should be changed.

The semi finals provide massive funding to competition, as the EPCR take all the ticket sales. There's no way they are giving up that, in fact thats why they changed it from neutral home venue to home venue provided the stadium is big enough.

I wouldn't be against going back to the random draw for the semi final though, like the ERC days as it creates more upsets.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:I think I might be in a minority.  But I think if a team earns the right to host home games, then let them put the semi-finals wherever they want, within certain limits.    

As a Saint fan, there is no doubt having the Leinster match at Croke Park helped Leinster.  But they earned the right to host and I would rather see 80k fans attending a game than 20k in a band box.  Especially as Euro Semi-Finals are big games (Rugby needs more big games to market the best of the sport), and the two semi-finals were great games.  

Regarding the final not having been in Italy, that seems a missed opportunity and should be changed.

The semi finals provide massive funding to competition, as the EPCR take all the ticket sales. There's no way they are giving up that, in fact thats why they changed it from neutral home venue to home venue provided the stadium is big enough.

I wouldn't be against going back to the random draw for the semi final though, like the ERC days as it creates more upsets.

Good point about the EPCR and the ticket sales.  The NFL works the same way in their playoffs, ticket receipts go to the league which then compensates teams for their travel expenses (within logical limits) and keeps the rest.  Food, merchandise, parking, all go to the home team.  

I actually prefer home semi-finals.  I think teams should be rewarded for doing well.  Plus, more passion, more energy, more drama, more headlines inches and so on.  That helps make our sport great.

I remember talking to a retired NY Giants player some time ago when someone brought up that he seemed to play better on the road.  His response was something along the lines that he always pulled energy out of the opposition crowd, especially when tired, and the more they yelled, the better for him.

doctor_grey wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:I think I might be in a minority.  But I think if a team earns the right to host home games, then let them put the semi-finals wherever they want, within certain limits.    

As a Saint fan, there is no doubt having the Leinster match at Croke Park helped Leinster.  But they earned the right to host and I would rather see 80k fans attending a game than 20k in a band box.  Especially as Euro Semi-Finals are big games (Rugby needs more big games to market the best of the sport), and the two semi-finals were great games.  

Regarding the final not having been in Italy, that seems a missed opportunity and should be changed.

The semi finals provide massive funding to competition, as the EPCR take all the ticket sales. There's no way they are giving up that, in fact thats why they changed it from neutral home venue to home venue provided the stadium is big enough.

I wouldn't be against going back to the random draw for the semi final though, like the ERC days as it creates more upsets.

Good point about the EPCR and the ticket sales.  The NFL works the same way in their playoffs, ticket receipts go to the league which then compensates teams for their travel expenses (within logical limits) and keeps the rest.  Food, merchandise, parking, all go to the home team.  

I actually prefer home semi-finals.  I think teams should be rewarded for doing well.  Plus, more passion, more energy, more drama, more headlines inches and so on.  That helps make our sport great.  

I remember talking to a retired NY Giants player some time ago when someone brought up that he seemed to play better on the road.  His response was something along the lines that he always pulled energy out of the opposition crowd, especially when tired, and the more they yelled, the better for him.

The logic of having a home semi due to performances in the group is sound, but with the introduction of the last 16 it's alot of home knockout games. It feels like Leinster haven't played an away knockout game in Europe in ages for instance.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:I think I might be in a minority.  But I think if a team earns the right to host home games, then let them put the semi-finals wherever they want, within certain limits.    

As a Saint fan, there is no doubt having the Leinster match at Croke Park helped Leinster.  But they earned the right to host and I would rather see 80k fans attending a game than 20k in a band box.  Especially as Euro Semi-Finals are big games (Rugby needs more big games to market the best of the sport), and the two semi-finals were great games.  

Regarding the final not having been in Italy, that seems a missed opportunity and should be changed.

The semi finals provide massive funding to competition, as the EPCR take all the ticket sales. There's no way they are giving up that, in fact thats why they changed it from neutral home venue to home venue provided the stadium is big enough.

I wouldn't be against going back to the random draw for the semi final though, like the ERC days as it creates more upsets.

Good point about the EPCR and the ticket sales.  The NFL works the same way in their playoffs, ticket receipts go to the league which then compensates teams for their travel expenses (within logical limits) and keeps the rest.  Food, merchandise, parking, all go to the home team.  

I actually prefer home semi-finals.  I think teams should be rewarded for doing well.  Plus, more passion, more energy, more drama, more headlines inches and so on.  That helps make our sport great.  

I remember talking to a retired NY Giants player some time ago when someone brought up that he seemed to play better on the road.  His response was something along the lines that he always pulled energy out of the opposition crowd, especially when tired, and the more they yelled, the better for him.

The logic of having a home semi due to performances in the group is sound, but with the introduction of the last 16 it's alot of home knockout games. It feels like Leinster haven't played an away knockout game in Europe in ages for instance.

I will never argue against having Leinster play more games away from home.....

The current system certainly gives top seeds a sustained advantage over three knockout rounds. And since with the current format the seedings tend to go with the French teams with their bigger budgets, it makes for an uphill struggle for everyone else.

A rule that you don’t replay teams from your own group in the round of 16 coupled with properly neutral semi finals would be worth trying.

https://open.spotify.com/episode/6mAySDUsZwUkvV5F1XjpiJ?si=0233d17710314e58

Maul or Nothing podcast has Andre Esterhuizen and Blair Kinghorn as guests (on separately), which gives two sides of the match at the weekend.

Esterhuizen didn't think his clash with Ntmack deserved yellow but was a penalty. Like Danny Care on the BBC podcast, he said a later hit on Luke Northmore was much worse, and that didn't get any kind of review.

None of the Quins players have blamed the officials for their loss, though.

Commenting on the penalty reversal which Marlet gave away, Max Lahiff has heard that Ramos is a wind-up merchant, and Esterhuizen concurred. Ramos got after Marcus Smith last time they played, and Esterhuizen says he spoke with Smith about not letting that happen again.

The Blair Kinghorn conversation is mainly every laughing at his broken nose. The YouTube version of the podcast will probably be worth a viewing.

Blair Kinghorn appears around the 46 minute mark

Poorfour wrote:The current system certainly gives top seeds a sustained advantage over three knockout rounds. And since with the current format the seedings tend to go with the French teams with their bigger budgets,  it makes for an uphill struggle for everyone else.

A rule that you don’t replay teams from your own group in the round of 16 coupled with properly neutral semi finals would be worth trying.

Your argument basically boils down to they're better than us and thats not fair so lets even things up artifically.

Its seems to me that every few years when English sides havent won for a while the tactic is to change the competition to give them a better chance of winning and yet you hear almost nothing about the ludicrous numbers of English teams in the competition, almost the entire English premiership qualifies.

Collapse2005 wrote:

Poorfour wrote:The current system certainly gives top seeds a sustained advantage over three knockout rounds. And since with the current format the seedings tend to go with the French teams with their bigger budgets,  it makes for an uphill struggle for everyone else.

A rule that you don’t replay teams from your own group in the round of 16 coupled with properly neutral semi finals would be worth trying.

Your argument basically boils down to they're better than us and thats not fair so lets even things up artifically.

Its seems to me that every few years when English sides havent won for a while the tactic is to change the competition to give them a better chance of winning and yet you hear almost nothing about the ludicrous numbers of English teams in the competition, almost the entire English premiership qualifies.

Not sure I agree, mate. I really can’t say I know anyone who thinks it makes sense for the Premiership to have 8 out of 10 teams in the champions cup.

Regarding Leinster, or any top seed, having more home matches, we’ll, isn’t that the reward for topping one’s pool?