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Political round up.............

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Post by Duty281 Fri 1 Mar 2024 - 7:58

First topic message reminder :

Astonishing win in terms of margin. I was surprised that the ex-Labour candidate polled as low as 8%, but I guess word spread about his removal and he was viewed, effectively, as another independent.

Even if he wasn't removed, I think Galloway still wins, so it was a stroke of luck for Starmer in that he can ignore this defeat.

I thought Galloway would be out when the GE rolls around; now I'm not 100% sure. The issue of Gaza is hurting Labour amongst its once almost guaranteed Muslim vote.

I think this result shows that an Islamic party, if led by a brilliant campaigner, is a very viable option for the future. They could stand in areas where the Muslim population is relatively high and maybe win a couple of dozen seats at a GE, being similar to the SNP in terms of insurgency.

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Post by Samo Wed 12 Jun 2024 - 12:50

navyblueshorts wrote:What an idiot.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cv221jple3jo

Perhaps pay a bit more attention to, and argue for, an electoral process fit for purpose, instead of your own self-serving interests. Time to reap the whirlwind you talentless windbag....

Whats the practical difference between a supermajority and a normal majority? Surely a buffer of lets say 20 MP's (to account for dissenters) would give you no problem passing whatever you want through Parliament? I cant see any difference to Labour getting a 300 seat majority vs Johnson getting an 80 seat majority. Surely a majority is a majority?

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Post by navyblueshorts Wed 12 Jun 2024 - 13:02

Duty281 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:I'm sure Mr. Farage will happily live in Clacton as their MP if he were to win that seat...

Related to the above, it's long past time where it should be made illegal to stand as an MP when one hasn't lived for, say, ≥5 years in the constituency one's trying to represent.

Any benefit to this idea?

You get nominated by people who live in that constituency, isn't that enough?
No; not really. I would expect my MP to have half a clue about local issues of relevance to me.

No need to live there for that.
Why am I not surprised we don't agree? You're wrong, but I don't expect any contrition.
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Post by Duty281 Wed 12 Jun 2024 - 13:09

navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:I'm sure Mr. Farage will happily live in Clacton as their MP if he were to win that seat...

Related to the above, it's long past time where it should be made illegal to stand as an MP when one hasn't lived for, say, ≥5 years in the constituency one's trying to represent.

Any benefit to this idea?

You get nominated by people who live in that constituency, isn't that enough?
No; not really. I would expect my MP to have half a clue about local issues of relevance to me.

No need to live there for that.
Why am I not surprised we don't agree? You're wrong, but I don't expect any contrition.

I'm not wrong, you just disagree with me.

How would, say, someone living in Leeds be unable to grasp the local issues in Southampton, if they stood there for a parliamentary seat? It's not going to be massively inaccessible or difficult to do so. And it's hardly a difference of Fiji and Japan in culture.

And that's before getting into the other potential nonsense that could occur as a result of what you want. If someone lives in the constituency of Leeds North West, should they really be prevented from standing in Leeds North East?

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Wed 12 Jun 2024 - 13:29

Yougov poll obviously including Scotland and Wales subsections and Reform being 1 point behind overall...

Lends one to the idea that Reform are probably more popular than the Tories in England with that pollster...

Reform up 6 with the pollster that used to be Kantar....Looks like 15% is the median for them and if it stays there we are looking at wipeout for Sunak and his army.

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Post by navyblueshorts Wed 12 Jun 2024 - 15:41

Duty281 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:I'm sure Mr. Farage will happily live in Clacton as their MP if he were to win that seat...

Related to the above, it's long past time where it should be made illegal to stand as an MP when one hasn't lived for, say, ≥5 years in the constituency one's trying to represent.

Any benefit to this idea?

You get nominated by people who live in that constituency, isn't that enough?
No; not really. I would expect my MP to have half a clue about local issues of relevance to me.

No need to live there for that.
Why am I not surprised we don't agree? You're wrong, but I don't expect any contrition.

I'm not wrong, you just disagree with me.

How would, say, someone living in Leeds be unable to grasp the local issues in Southampton, if they stood there for a parliamentary seat? It's not going to be massively inaccessible or difficult to do so. And it's hardly a difference of Fiji and Japan in culture.

And that's before getting into the other potential nonsense that could occur as a result of what you want. If someone lives in the constituency of Leeds North West, should they really be prevented from standing in Leeds North East?
You are wrong and, yes, I disagree. Apart from the obvious lack of knowledge re. local issues for someone who isn't versed in the local scene, it's another bit of political Scheiße from the U.K. political scene to parachute some so-say big name know-nothing into a so-called 'safe seat' for a given party. Bollox to it.
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Post by Duty281 Wed 12 Jun 2024 - 15:45

navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:I'm sure Mr. Farage will happily live in Clacton as their MP if he were to win that seat...

Related to the above, it's long past time where it should be made illegal to stand as an MP when one hasn't lived for, say, ≥5 years in the constituency one's trying to represent.

Any benefit to this idea?

You get nominated by people who live in that constituency, isn't that enough?
No; not really. I would expect my MP to have half a clue about local issues of relevance to me.

No need to live there for that.
Why am I not surprised we don't agree? You're wrong, but I don't expect any contrition.

I'm not wrong, you just disagree with me.

How would, say, someone living in Leeds be unable to grasp the local issues in Southampton, if they stood there for a parliamentary seat? It's not going to be massively inaccessible or difficult to do so. And it's hardly a difference of Fiji and Japan in culture.

And that's before getting into the other potential nonsense that could occur as a result of what you want. If someone lives in the constituency of Leeds North West, should they really be prevented from standing in Leeds North East?
You are wrong and, yes, I disagree. Apart from the obvious lack of knowledge re. local issues for someone who isn't versed in the local scene, it's another bit of political Scheiße from the U.K. political scene to parachute some so-say big name know-nothing into a so-called 'safe seat' for a given party. Bollox to it.

Nope, not wrong, and you haven't answered a single question about it.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Wed 12 Jun 2024 - 16:09

navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:I'm sure Mr. Farage will happily live in Clacton as their MP if he were to win that seat...

Related to the above, it's long past time where it should be made illegal to stand as an MP when one hasn't lived for, say, ≥5 years in the constituency one's trying to represent.

Any benefit to this idea?

You get nominated by people who live in that constituency, isn't that enough?
No; not really. I would expect my MP to have half a clue about local issues of relevance to me.

No need to live there for that.
Why am I not surprised we don't agree? You're wrong, but I don't expect any contrition.

Most Mps are parachuted in from other areas of the country these days......Luciana Berger before she was Liverpool something MP hadn't heard of Anfield....and hadn't heard of the river mersey.

You expect too much Navy.....It's all jobs for the boys/girls these days.

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Post by Soul Requiem Wed 12 Jun 2024 - 16:21

navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:I'm sure Mr. Farage will happily live in Clacton as their MP if he were to win that seat...

Related to the above, it's long past time where it should be made illegal to stand as an MP when one hasn't lived for, say, ≥5 years in the constituency one's trying to represent.

Any benefit to this idea?

You get nominated by people who live in that constituency, isn't that enough?
No; not really. I would expect my MP to have half a clue about local issues of relevance to me.

No need to live there for that.
Why am I not surprised we don't agree? You're wrong, but I don't expect any contrition.

I'm not wrong, you just disagree with me.

How would, say, someone living in Leeds be unable to grasp the local issues in Southampton, if they stood there for a parliamentary seat? It's not going to be massively inaccessible or difficult to do so. And it's hardly a difference of Fiji and Japan in culture.

And that's before getting into the other potential nonsense that could occur as a result of what you want. If someone lives in the constituency of Leeds North West, should they really be prevented from standing in Leeds North East?
You are wrong and, yes, I disagree. Apart from the obvious lack of knowledge re. local issues for someone who isn't versed in the local scene, it's another bit of political Scheiße from the U.K. political scene to parachute some so-say big name know-nothing into a so-called 'safe seat' for a given party. Bollox to it.

It's not the 19th century, you don't need to live in an area to know or understand the issues that residents have. Your sole issue here is Nigel Farage.

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Post by navyblueshorts Wed 12 Jun 2024 - 16:21

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:I'm sure Mr. Farage will happily live in Clacton as their MP if he were to win that seat...

Related to the above, it's long past time where it should be made illegal to stand as an MP when one hasn't lived for, say, ≥5 years in the constituency one's trying to represent.

Any benefit to this idea?

You get nominated by people who live in that constituency, isn't that enough?
No; not really. I would expect my MP to have half a clue about local issues of relevance to me.

No need to live there for that.
Why am I not surprised we don't agree? You're wrong, but I don't expect any contrition.

Most Mps are parachuted in from other areas of the country these days......Luciana Berger before she was Liverpool something MP hadn't heard of Anfield....and hadn't heard of the river mersey.

You expect too much Navy.....It's all jobs for the boys/girls these days.
Yeah. I should know better.
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Post by navyblueshorts Wed 12 Jun 2024 - 16:29

Soul Requiem wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:I'm sure Mr. Farage will happily live in Clacton as their MP if he were to win that seat...

Related to the above, it's long past time where it should be made illegal to stand as an MP when one hasn't lived for, say, ≥5 years in the constituency one's trying to represent.

Any benefit to this idea?

You get nominated by people who live in that constituency, isn't that enough?
No; not really. I would expect my MP to have half a clue about local issues of relevance to me.

No need to live there for that.
Why am I not surprised we don't agree? You're wrong, but I don't expect any contrition.

I'm not wrong, you just disagree with me.

How would, say, someone living in Leeds be unable to grasp the local issues in Southampton, if they stood there for a parliamentary seat? It's not going to be massively inaccessible or difficult to do so. And it's hardly a difference of Fiji and Japan in culture.

And that's before getting into the other potential nonsense that could occur as a result of what you want. If someone lives in the constituency of Leeds North West, should they really be prevented from standing in Leeds North East?
You are wrong and, yes, I disagree. Apart from the obvious lack of knowledge re. local issues for someone who isn't versed in the local scene, it's another bit of political Scheiße from the U.K. political scene to parachute some so-say big name know-nothing into a so-called 'safe seat' for a given party. Bollox to it.

It's not the 19th century, you don't need to live in an area to know or understand the issues that residents have. Your sole issue here is Nigel Farage.
No wonder politicians are so out of touch. It's clearly OK to have no first-hand knowledge of the constituency you propose to represent. **** me. How could I have been so stupid?

This says more about your assumptions than me and that I behave as you might. Yes, it applies to Farage and Clacton, but it's a system-wide issue that's a crock.
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Wed 12 Jun 2024 - 16:34

navyblueshorts wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:I'm sure Mr. Farage will happily live in Clacton as their MP if he were to win that seat...

Related to the above, it's long past time where it should be made illegal to stand as an MP when one hasn't lived for, say, ≥5 years in the constituency one's trying to represent.

Any benefit to this idea?

You get nominated by people who live in that constituency, isn't that enough?
No; not really. I would expect my MP to have half a clue about local issues of relevance to me.

No need to live there for that.
Why am I not surprised we don't agree? You're wrong, but I don't expect any contrition.

I'm not wrong, you just disagree with me.

How would, say, someone living in Leeds be unable to grasp the local issues in Southampton, if they stood there for a parliamentary seat? It's not going to be massively inaccessible or difficult to do so. And it's hardly a difference of Fiji and Japan in culture.

And that's before getting into the other potential nonsense that could occur as a result of what you want. If someone lives in the constituency of Leeds North West, should they really be prevented from standing in Leeds North East?
You are wrong and, yes, I disagree. Apart from the obvious lack of knowledge re. local issues for someone who isn't versed in the local scene, it's another bit of political Scheiße from the U.K. political scene to parachute some so-say big name know-nothing into a so-called 'safe seat' for a given party. Bollox to it.

It's not the 19th century, you don't need to live in an area to know or understand the issues that residents have. Your sole issue here is Nigel Farage.
No wonder politicians are so out of touch. It's clearly OK to have no first-hand knowledge of the constituency you propose to represent. **** me. How could I have been so stupid?

This says more about your assumptions than me and that I behave as you might. Yes, it applies to Farage and Clacton, but it's a system-wide issue that's a crock.

Corbyn will get 15,000+ votes and probably lose.....But how many Tories if they were as active as him in their Constituency would do enough to keep their seat ???

Probably quite a lot....But they are too Westminster centric.

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Post by navyblueshorts Wed 12 Jun 2024 - 16:34

Duty281 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:I'm sure Mr. Farage will happily live in Clacton as their MP if he were to win that seat...

Related to the above, it's long past time where it should be made illegal to stand as an MP when one hasn't lived for, say, ≥5 years in the constituency one's trying to represent.

Any benefit to this idea?

You get nominated by people who live in that constituency, isn't that enough?
No; not really. I would expect my MP to have half a clue about local issues of relevance to me.

No need to live there for that.
Why am I not surprised we don't agree? You're wrong, but I don't expect any contrition.

I'm not wrong, you just disagree with me.

How would, say, someone living in Leeds be unable to grasp the local issues in Southampton, if they stood there for a parliamentary seat? It's not going to be massively inaccessible or difficult to do so. And it's hardly a difference of Fiji and Japan in culture.

And that's before getting into the other potential nonsense that could occur as a result of what you want. If someone lives in the constituency of Leeds North West, should they really be prevented from standing in Leeds North East?
You are wrong and, yes, I disagree. Apart from the obvious lack of knowledge re. local issues for someone who isn't versed in the local scene, it's another bit of political Scheiße from the U.K. political scene to parachute some so-say big name know-nothing into a so-called 'safe seat' for a given party. Bollox to it.

Nope, not wrong, and you haven't answered a single question about it.
I haven't answered a question? What question would you have me answer? You propose an anodyne example as if that's a gotcha? Good grief.

If that's what you an answer for then, yes, if you live in Leeds North East, I'd say you can't stand in Leeds North West. Why? Because such an embargo should apply across the board and it's more appropriate to, say, someone living in Oxfordshire standing in a part of Nottinghamshire etc. But you knew that, didn't you?
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Post by navyblueshorts Wed 12 Jun 2024 - 16:37

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:I'm sure Mr. Farage will happily live in Clacton as their MP if he were to win that seat...

Related to the above, it's long past time where it should be made illegal to stand as an MP when one hasn't lived for, say, ≥5 years in the constituency one's trying to represent.

Any benefit to this idea?

You get nominated by people who live in that constituency, isn't that enough?
No; not really. I would expect my MP to have half a clue about local issues of relevance to me.

No need to live there for that.
Why am I not surprised we don't agree? You're wrong, but I don't expect any contrition.

I'm not wrong, you just disagree with me.

How would, say, someone living in Leeds be unable to grasp the local issues in Southampton, if they stood there for a parliamentary seat? It's not going to be massively inaccessible or difficult to do so. And it's hardly a difference of Fiji and Japan in culture.

And that's before getting into the other potential nonsense that could occur as a result of what you want. If someone lives in the constituency of Leeds North West, should they really be prevented from standing in Leeds North East?
You are wrong and, yes, I disagree. Apart from the obvious lack of knowledge re. local issues for someone who isn't versed in the local scene, it's another bit of political Scheiße from the U.K. political scene to parachute some so-say big name know-nothing into a so-called 'safe seat' for a given party. Bollox to it.

It's not the 19th century, you don't need to live in an area to know or understand the issues that residents have. Your sole issue here is Nigel Farage.
No wonder politicians are so out of touch. It's clearly OK to have no first-hand knowledge of the constituency you propose to represent. **** me. How could I have been so stupid?

This says more about your assumptions than me and that I behave as you might. Yes, it applies to Farage and Clacton, but it's a system-wide issue that's a crock.

Corbyn will get 15,000+ votes and probably lose.....But how many Tories if they were as active as him in their Constituency would do enough to keep their seat ???

Probably quite a lot....But they are too Westminster centric.
Suspect those Tories have some nice post-MP gigs tied up nicely, so probably don't give a ****. Probably why they got into politics in the first place - make some contacts and grift the influence afterwards.
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Post by Duty281 Wed 12 Jun 2024 - 16:44

navyblueshorts wrote:I haven't answered a question? What question would you have me answer? You propose an anodyne example as if that's a gotcha? Good grief.

If that's what you an answer for then, yes, if you live in Leeds North East, I'd say you can't stand in Leeds North West. Why? Because such an embargo should apply across the board and it's more appropriate to, say, someone living in Oxfordshire standing in a part of Nottinghamshire etc. But you knew that, didn't you?

Probably the ones I've asked.

I'm still curious as to why you think someone can't gain local knowledge by speaking to constituents and researching the area?

And the point about Leeds is that surely the same local issues apply to Leeds NE as Leeds NW, so why implement a ban on someone living next door? I didn't actually think you'd want a blanket embargo, I thought there'd be exceptions, but OK.

I think you've proposed an utterly daft idea, but we're all welcome to our opinions.

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Post by GSC Wed 12 Jun 2024 - 16:55

I wouldn't say your MP has to live in the area but they certainly have to spend an appropriate amount of time there regularly.
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Wed 12 Jun 2024 - 18:18

Norstatuk

Lab...41 -4
Con...21 -1
Ref....17 +3
Lib.....11+1
Gre.....6 +1

Labour share slightly down on most polls....Not sure why.

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Post by GSC Wed 12 Jun 2024 - 21:08

Mostly smaller parties picking up buzz while labour keep it as vanilla as possible and the Tories crater I guess
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Post by Duty281 Wed 12 Jun 2024 - 21:28

Yes the polls tend to tighten at this point, but Labour can pick up a boost with a good manifesto launch tomorrow.


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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Thu 13 Jun 2024 - 11:44

GB news commissioned poll...

Lab 39
Con 19
Ref 17
LD..10

Best PM

None.....26%
Starmer 22%
Farage...15%
Sunak....9%
Davey....6%

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Post by Duty281 Thu 13 Jun 2024 - 11:49

That's a 'PeoplePolling' poll, and it shows a 7% drop for Labour from their last poll (middle of May) and a 3% increase for Reform.

Another seven way debate tonight, on ITV, same people as last time. Another good performance from Farage might be the lift Reform need to get ahead of the Tories.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Thu 13 Jun 2024 - 11:55

Wonder if we will see crossover between Reform and Con........Apparently it was Starmer 64 v 36 Sunak in the poll after last night's show.....Even though both were lamentable it seems.

Didn't watch it though myself....

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Thu 13 Jun 2024 - 12:14

Interesting seats..(oddschecker) Tice the number 2 at Reform has come in to 2/1 in the Boston and Skegness seat..Tory moving out to 8/11.....Was a comfortable hold a few weeks ago.

Obviously traction being picked up there..

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Post by navyblueshorts Thu 13 Jun 2024 - 13:24

Duty281 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:I haven't answered a question? What question would you have me answer? You propose an anodyne example as if that's a gotcha? Good grief.

If that's what you an answer for then, yes, if you live in Leeds North East, I'd say you can't stand in Leeds North West. Why? Because such an embargo should apply across the board and it's more appropriate to, say, someone living in Oxfordshire standing in a part of Nottinghamshire etc. But you knew that, didn't you?

Probably the ones I've asked.

I'm still curious as to why you think someone can't gain local knowledge by speaking to constituents and researching the area?

And the point about Leeds is that surely the same local issues apply to Leeds NE as Leeds NW, so why implement a ban on someone living next door? I didn't actually think you'd want a blanket embargo, I thought there'd be exceptions, but OK.

I think you've proposed an utterly daft idea, but we're all welcome to our opinions.
Oh, give over. In fact, forget it. Love the hypocrisy of pressing others to answer your alleged questions, when you often don't do that yourself.

It's OK for you to admit you don't understand my point...
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Post by navyblueshorts Thu 13 Jun 2024 - 13:26

GSC wrote:I wouldn't say your MP has to live in the area but they certainly have to spend an appropriate amount of time there regularly.
I could be persuaded by that. What constitutes an 'appropriate amount of time' would be the important thing; I'd expect it to be significant.
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Post by navyblueshorts Thu 13 Jun 2024 - 13:32

No wonder there's such a smell coming from a Westminster direction:

https://democracyforsale.substack.com/p/tory-donors-funnel-almost-7-million

This country is so FUBAR...
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Post by Duty281 Thu 13 Jun 2024 - 13:42

navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:I haven't answered a question? What question would you have me answer? You propose an anodyne example as if that's a gotcha? Good grief.

If that's what you an answer for then, yes, if you live in Leeds North East, I'd say you can't stand in Leeds North West. Why? Because such an embargo should apply across the board and it's more appropriate to, say, someone living in Oxfordshire standing in a part of Nottinghamshire etc. But you knew that, didn't you?

Probably the ones I've asked.

I'm still curious as to why you think someone can't gain local knowledge by speaking to constituents and researching the area?

And the point about Leeds is that surely the same local issues apply to Leeds NE as Leeds NW, so why implement a ban on someone living next door? I didn't actually think you'd want a blanket embargo, I thought there'd be exceptions, but OK.

I think you've proposed an utterly daft idea, but we're all welcome to our opinions.
Oh, give over. In fact, forget it. Love the hypocrisy of pressing others to answer your alleged questions, when you often don't do that yourself.

It's OK for you to admit you don't understand my point...

I answer all questions put to me, so this is an unfair accusation.

I do understand your point. It's not a complicated one, I just don't agree with it. You think that people need to live in the constituency they're standing in for five years, because otherwise they will have an obvious lack of knowledge about local issues.

I disagree with it because it's not hard to research local issues and understand them. You're unable to answer why you think this isn't possible, presumably because you know it is possible and it undermines your point.

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Post by superflyweight Thu 13 Jun 2024 - 14:44

Duty281 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:I haven't answered a question? What question would you have me answer? You propose an anodyne example as if that's a gotcha? Good grief.

If that's what you an answer for then, yes, if you live in Leeds North East, I'd say you can't stand in Leeds North West. Why? Because such an embargo should apply across the board and it's more appropriate to, say, someone living in Oxfordshire standing in a part of Nottinghamshire etc. But you knew that, didn't you?

Probably the ones I've asked.

I'm still curious as to why you think someone can't gain local knowledge by speaking to constituents and researching the area?

And the point about Leeds is that surely the same local issues apply to Leeds NE as Leeds NW, so why implement a ban on someone living next door? I didn't actually think you'd want a blanket embargo, I thought there'd be exceptions, but OK.

I think you've proposed an utterly daft idea, but we're all welcome to our opinions.
Oh, give over. In fact, forget it. Love the hypocrisy of pressing others to answer your alleged questions, when you often don't do that yourself.

It's OK for you to admit you don't understand my point...

I answer all questions put to me, so this is an unfair accusation.

I do understand your point. It's not a complicated one, I just don't agree with it. You think that people need to live in the constituency they're standing in for five years, because otherwise they will have an obvious lack of knowledge about local issues.

I disagree with it because it's not hard to research local issues and understand them. You're unable to answer why you think this isn't possible, presumably because you know it is possible and it undermines your point.

Shocked

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Post by navyblueshorts Thu 13 Jun 2024 - 15:47

Duty281 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:I haven't answered a question? What question would you have me answer? You propose an anodyne example as if that's a gotcha? Good grief.

If that's what you an answer for then, yes, if you live in Leeds North East, I'd say you can't stand in Leeds North West. Why? Because such an embargo should apply across the board and it's more appropriate to, say, someone living in Oxfordshire standing in a part of Nottinghamshire etc. But you knew that, didn't you?

Probably the ones I've asked.

I'm still curious as to why you think someone can't gain local knowledge by speaking to constituents and researching the area?

And the point about Leeds is that surely the same local issues apply to Leeds NE as Leeds NW, so why implement a ban on someone living next door? I didn't actually think you'd want a blanket embargo, I thought there'd be exceptions, but OK.

I think you've proposed an utterly daft idea, but we're all welcome to our opinions.
Oh, give over. In fact, forget it. Love the hypocrisy of pressing others to answer your alleged questions, when you often don't do that yourself.

It's OK for you to admit you don't understand my point...

I answer all questions put to me, so this is an unfair accusation.
Laugh

Duty281 wrote:I do understand your point. It's not a complicated one, I just don't agree with it. You think that people need to live in the constituency they're standing in for five years, because otherwise they will have an obvious lack of knowledge about local issues.

I disagree with it because it's not hard to research local issues and understand them. You're unable to answer why you think this isn't possible, presumably because you know it is possible and it undermines your point.
I suggested 5 years as an off-the-cuff length of time indicative of a suggestion that some time spent in the constituency is necessary; don't be so literal. The point is, someone standing as a constituency MP should know more than just the main headline issues of their proposed constituents. That takes some time, I suggest, and a good understanding of one's constituents' issues.

I can easily answer why I don't think one can simply 'research' accurately what issues are for people in a constituency. One can't; not to the level needed, even in the 21st century. In addition, being an absentee MP isn't a good look, or conducive to support IMO.

It's no wonder there's a disconnect between our politicians and whom they're meant to represent.
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Post by Duty281 Thu 13 Jun 2024 - 16:00

navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:I haven't answered a question? What question would you have me answer? You propose an anodyne example as if that's a gotcha? Good grief.

If that's what you an answer for then, yes, if you live in Leeds North East, I'd say you can't stand in Leeds North West. Why? Because such an embargo should apply across the board and it's more appropriate to, say, someone living in Oxfordshire standing in a part of Nottinghamshire etc. But you knew that, didn't you?

Probably the ones I've asked.

I'm still curious as to why you think someone can't gain local knowledge by speaking to constituents and researching the area?

And the point about Leeds is that surely the same local issues apply to Leeds NE as Leeds NW, so why implement a ban on someone living next door? I didn't actually think you'd want a blanket embargo, I thought there'd be exceptions, but OK.

I think you've proposed an utterly daft idea, but we're all welcome to our opinions.
Oh, give over. In fact, forget it. Love the hypocrisy of pressing others to answer your alleged questions, when you often don't do that yourself.

It's OK for you to admit you don't understand my point...

I answer all questions put to me, so this is an unfair accusation.
Laugh

Duty281 wrote:I do understand your point. It's not a complicated one, I just don't agree with it. You think that people need to live in the constituency they're standing in for five years, because otherwise they will have an obvious lack of knowledge about local issues.

I disagree with it because it's not hard to research local issues and understand them. You're unable to answer why you think this isn't possible, presumably because you know it is possible and it undermines your point.
I suggested 5 years as an off-the-cuff length of time indicative of a suggestion that some time spent in the constituency is necessary; don't be so literal. The point is, someone standing as a constituency MP should know more than just the main headline issues of their proposed constituents. That takes some time, I suggest, and a good understanding of one's constituents' issues.

I can easily answer why I don't think one can simply 'research' accurately what issues are for people in a constituency. One can't; not to the level needed, even in the 21st century. In addition, being an absentee MP isn't a good look, or conducive to support IMO.

It's no wonder there's a disconnect between our politicians and whom they're meant to represent.

Go on then, let's see some evidence for these questions that I've dodged.

I agree being an absentee MP isn't a good look, but we weren't talking about that. We were talking about prior to an election.

How complicated do you think these issues are, exactly? Because I think you're drastically overestimating the complexity of them. And many issues that affect one constituency will be present in many other nationwide e.g. high crime, low wages, not enough housing etc.

How do you want me to take your posts if not literally? You said it should be illegal for a person to stand as an MP if they haven't lived in the constituency for 5+ years (and you also added that this meant specific constituencies; someone can't stand in Leeds North West, even if they live in Leeds North East). If this isn't what you meant, why say it and defend it? I agree some time in a constituency is needed, but a campaign as Nigel is doing now is sufficient (in my view!). He probably won't live there if elected, but he will have an office there, which I also think is sufficient.

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Post by Duty281 Thu 13 Jun 2024 - 20:07

Crossover time. Very Happy

BREAKING: Reform have overtaken the Conservatives in the latest YouGov poll for the times

Lab: 37% (-1); Reform: 19% (+2); Con: 18% (nc); Lib Dem: 14% (-1); Green: 7 (-1)


Remember, a vote for the Tories is a vote for Labour. Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

Old methodology puts Tories close to fourth - Labour: 40%; Reform: 18%; Con: 15%; LD: 14%; Green: 7%

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Post by Duty281 Thu 13 Jun 2024 - 22:18

Absolute tour de force from Nigel tonight. Making a good pitch to both sides of the aisle. He even got in the line to Mordaunt that 'a vote for you is a vote for Labour'. Laugh

Hopefully Reform can break 20% soon in the polls.

There's a Welsh focused debate on Sunday from Cardiff. Tories, Labour and Plaid have been invited, not Reform. That's wrong. The last two polls in Wales have put Reform up as the third most popular party, ahead of Plaid. Indeed the last poll had Reform level with the Tories in Wales and that was a week ago.

There's also a QT event next Thursday for the four biggest parties, judged to be Tory/Labour/SNP/LD. If Reform continue polling ahead of the Tories nationally, it would be wrong to exclude them from that event.

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Post by superflyweight Thu 13 Jun 2024 - 23:24

Duty281 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:I haven't answered a question? What question would you have me answer? You propose an anodyne example as if that's a gotcha? Good grief.

If that's what you an answer for then, yes, if you live in Leeds North East, I'd say you can't stand in Leeds North West. Why? Because such an embargo should apply across the board and it's more appropriate to, say, someone living in Oxfordshire standing in a part of Nottinghamshire etc. But you knew that, didn't you?

Probably the ones I've asked.

I'm still curious as to why you think someone can't gain local knowledge by speaking to constituents and researching the area?

And the point about Leeds is that surely the same local issues apply to Leeds NE as Leeds NW, so why implement a ban on someone living next door? I didn't actually think you'd want a blanket embargo, I thought there'd be exceptions, but OK.

I think you've proposed an utterly daft idea, but we're all welcome to our opinions.
Oh, give over. In fact, forget it. Love the hypocrisy of pressing others to answer your alleged questions, when you often don't do that yourself.

It's OK for you to admit you don't understand my point...

I answer all questions put to me, so this is an unfair accusation.
Laugh

Duty281 wrote:I do understand your point. It's not a complicated one, I just don't agree with it. You think that people need to live in the constituency they're standing in for five years, because otherwise they will have an obvious lack of knowledge about local issues.

I disagree with it because it's not hard to research local issues and understand them. You're unable to answer why you think this isn't possible, presumably because you know it is possible and it undermines your point.
I suggested 5 years as an off-the-cuff length of time indicative of a suggestion that some time spent in the constituency is necessary; don't be so literal. The point is, someone standing as a constituency MP should know more than just the main headline issues of their proposed constituents. That takes some time, I suggest, and a good understanding of one's constituents' issues.

I can easily answer why I don't think one can simply 'research' accurately what issues are for people in a constituency. One can't; not to the level needed, even in the 21st century. In addition, being an absentee MP isn't a good look, or conducive to support IMO.

It's no wonder there's a disconnect between our politicians and whom they're meant to represent.

Go on then, let's see some evidence for these questions that I've dodged.

I agree being an absentee MP isn't a good look, but we weren't talking about that. We were talking about prior to an election.

How complicated do you think these issues are, exactly? Because I think you're drastically overestimating the complexity of them. And many issues that affect one constituency will be present in many other nationwide e.g. high crime, low wages, not enough housing etc.

How do you want me to take your posts if not literally? You said it should be illegal for a person to stand as an MP if they haven't lived in the constituency for 5+ years (and you also added that this meant specific constituencies; someone can't stand in Leeds North West, even if they live in Leeds North East). If this isn't what you meant, why say it and defend it? I agree some time in a constituency is needed, but a campaign as Nigel is doing now is sufficient (in my view!). He probably won't live there if elected, but he will have an office there, which I also think is sufficient.

Not going to dig out posts because I have a job and a family but you once expressly refused to answer my question about which EU banking regulations you would repeal in order to allow the UK banking market to make even more money. You also recently neglected to confirm how the New York district attorney could bring a prosecution against George W in relation to the the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan.

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Post by navyblueshorts Fri 14 Jun 2024 - 9:32

Duty281 wrote:Go on then, let's see some evidence for these questions that I've dodged.

I agree being an absentee MP isn't a good look, but we weren't talking about that. We were talking about prior to an election.

How complicated do you think these issues are, exactly? Because I think you're drastically overestimating the complexity of them. And many issues that affect one constituency will be present in many other nationwide e.g. high crime, low wages, not enough housing etc.

How do you want me to take your posts if not literally? You said it should be illegal for a person to stand as an MP if they haven't lived in the constituency for 5+ years (and you also added that this meant specific constituencies; someone can't stand in Leeds North West, even if they live in Leeds North East). If this isn't what you meant, why say it and defend it? I agree some time in a constituency is needed, but a campaign as Nigel is doing now is sufficient (in my view!). He probably won't live there if elected, but he will have an office there, which I also think is sufficient.
Apologies, but I'm done with this. You have your thoughts on this, I have mine and I'm sure everyone else is bored.
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Post by navyblueshorts Fri 14 Jun 2024 - 9:34

Enough said.
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Post by Duty281 Fri 14 Jun 2024 - 10:50

navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Go on then, let's see some evidence for these questions that I've dodged.

I agree being an absentee MP isn't a good look, but we weren't talking about that. We were talking about prior to an election.

How complicated do you think these issues are, exactly? Because I think you're drastically overestimating the complexity of them. And many issues that affect one constituency will be present in many other nationwide e.g. high crime, low wages, not enough housing etc.

How do you want me to take your posts if not literally? You said it should be illegal for a person to stand as an MP if they haven't lived in the constituency for 5+ years (and you also added that this meant specific constituencies; someone can't stand in Leeds North West, even if they live in Leeds North East). If this isn't what you meant, why say it and defend it? I agree some time in a constituency is needed, but a campaign as Nigel is doing now is sufficient (in my view!). He probably won't live there if elected, but he will have an office there, which I also think is sufficient.
Apologies, but I'm done with this. You have your thoughts on this, I have mine and I'm sure everyone else is bored.

No worries, but please don't make accusations you can't support in future.

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Post by navyblueshorts Fri 14 Jun 2024 - 11:01

Duty281 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Go on then, let's see some evidence for these questions that I've dodged.

I agree being an absentee MP isn't a good look, but we weren't talking about that. We were talking about prior to an election.

How complicated do you think these issues are, exactly? Because I think you're drastically overestimating the complexity of them. And many issues that affect one constituency will be present in many other nationwide e.g. high crime, low wages, not enough housing etc.

How do you want me to take your posts if not literally? You said it should be illegal for a person to stand as an MP if they haven't lived in the constituency for 5+ years (and you also added that this meant specific constituencies; someone can't stand in Leeds North West, even if they live in Leeds North East). If this isn't what you meant, why say it and defend it? I agree some time in a constituency is needed, but a campaign as Nigel is doing now is sufficient (in my view!). He probably won't live there if elected, but he will have an office there, which I also think is sufficient.
Apologies, but I'm done with this. You have your thoughts on this, I have mine and I'm sure everyone else is bored.

No worries, but please don't make accusations you can't support in future.
You had to say something daft, didn't you? I'll make whatever accusation I like, to whom I like, and when I like. Let's open it to the floor, shall we? Fly's already cited your non-engagement w/ questions asked of you. Shall we ask everyone else? Rest assured, I'll call you out every single time in future; I doubt I'll have to wait long...
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Post by navyblueshorts Fri 14 Jun 2024 - 11:06

On the subject of dodgy political Party finances: Reform UK Ltd.

Nothing at all smells where this party and Farage is concerned. Not at all. And lest we forget, let's all just recall how squeaky clean Farage and the Brexit campaign were by reading Carole Cadwalladr's piece again.
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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Fri 14 Jun 2024 - 12:20

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Interesting seats..(oddschecker) Tice the number 2 at Reform has come in to 2/1 in the Boston and Skegness seat..Tory moving out to 8/11.....Was a comfortable hold a few weeks ago.

Obviously traction being picked up there..

Part of me would quite like Tice and Farage to win their respective seats. It would very useful to see how much, or how little, constituency work they actually end up doing.

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Post by Duty281 Fri 14 Jun 2024 - 12:24

navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Go on then, let's see some evidence for these questions that I've dodged.

I agree being an absentee MP isn't a good look, but we weren't talking about that. We were talking about prior to an election.

How complicated do you think these issues are, exactly? Because I think you're drastically overestimating the complexity of them. And many issues that affect one constituency will be present in many other nationwide e.g. high crime, low wages, not enough housing etc.

How do you want me to take your posts if not literally? You said it should be illegal for a person to stand as an MP if they haven't lived in the constituency for 5+ years (and you also added that this meant specific constituencies; someone can't stand in Leeds North West, even if they live in Leeds North East). If this isn't what you meant, why say it and defend it? I agree some time in a constituency is needed, but a campaign as Nigel is doing now is sufficient (in my view!). He probably won't live there if elected, but he will have an office there, which I also think is sufficient.
Apologies, but I'm done with this. You have your thoughts on this, I have mine and I'm sure everyone else is bored.

No worries, but please don't make accusations you can't support in future.
You had to say something daft, didn't you? I'll make whatever accusation I like, to whom I like, and when I like. Let's open it to the floor, shall we? Fly's already cited your non-engagement w/ questions asked of you. Shall we ask everyone else? Rest assured, I'll call you out every single time in future; I doubt I'll have to wait long...

It's not daft in the slightest. You can make whatever accusation you like, but when it's unfounded and without merit, as this one is, it doesn't get us anywhere.

I don't engage with the poster you've named, so I've no idea what he has or hasn't said.

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Post by navyblueshorts Fri 14 Jun 2024 - 12:59

Duty281 wrote:...I don't engage with the poster you've named, so I've no idea what he has or hasn't said.
Ah. Of course. You don't 'engage' with any poster that asks you a question that you'd rather not confront/address. Very neat. Must remember that next time I'm asked an awkward question.

I'm sure no-one takes it personally that you avoid answering questions awkward to you; everyone does it from time to time. Most admit it if challenged, however.
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Post by navyblueshorts Fri 14 Jun 2024 - 13:01

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Interesting seats..(oddschecker) Tice the number 2 at Reform has come in to 2/1 in the Boston and Skegness seat..Tory moving out to 8/11.....Was a comfortable hold a few weeks ago.

Obviously traction being picked up there..

Part of me would quite like Tice and Farage to win their respective seats. It would very useful to see how much, or how little, constituency work they actually end up doing.
I'd also be curious to see what they'd be like with some actual, you know, responsibility to an electorate. At the moment, all they do is carp/criticise/campaign which, to give Farage some dues, he's very good at that.
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Post by superflyweight Fri 14 Jun 2024 - 13:12

navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:...I don't engage with the poster you've named, so I've no idea what he has or hasn't said.
Ah. Of course. You don't 'engage' with any poster that asks you a question that you'd rather not confront/address. Very neat. Must remember that next time I'm asked an awkward question.

I'm sure no-one takes it personally that you avoid answering questions awkward to you; everyone does it from time to time. Most admit it if challenged, however.

It's fine Navy, I think the precious wee soul blocked me a while back but I don't need him to engage in order to call out his sh1te.

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Post by Duty281 Fri 14 Jun 2024 - 13:24

navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:...I don't engage with the poster you've named, so I've no idea what he has or hasn't said.
Ah. Of course. You don't 'engage' with any poster that asks you a question that you'd rather not confront/address. Very neat. Must remember that next time I'm asked an awkward question.

I'm sure no-one takes it personally that you avoid answering questions awkward to you; everyone does it from time to time. Most admit it if challenged, however.

No I don't engage with that poster because he has in the past been nothing but abusive, so little sense in engaging. I'm happy to talk to posters who aren't abusive, even if they ask difficult questions.

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Post by Duty281 Fri 14 Jun 2024 - 13:25

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Interesting seats..(oddschecker) Tice the number 2 at Reform has come in to 2/1 in the Boston and Skegness seat..Tory moving out to 8/11.....Was a comfortable hold a few weeks ago.

Obviously traction being picked up there..

Part of me would quite like Tice and Farage to win their respective seats. It would very useful to see how much, or how little, constituency work they actually end up doing.

Most MPs offload the majority of their constituency work to their office staff, so would be little change here.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Fri 14 Jun 2024 - 15:24

Superfly is a little tetchy in fairness....Finding out that while family is a wonderful thing sleepless nights aren't that great ....Or maybe he is tired of hearing Tino go on about Wolverine on the cucumber roll thread....Either way he is a lawyer so don't feel sorry for him.

Before "Don't Knows" were allocated on the Yougov poll Reform led by 4 points over the Tories....But it's only one poll and Farage can't gatecrash the final BBC debate on one poll.

BBC won't let Sunak be gangbanged anyway...

Conhome poll.......Would you welcome Nigel Farage in to the Conservative party ??

Yes 56
No..37

Farage wins Clacton which is no given as I expect movement towards the incumbents eventually....I think that Reform and the Tories will melt in to one...Think Mordaunt if she holds her seat is probably nailed on as next leader though.


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Post by king_carlos Fri 14 Jun 2024 - 15:50

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Superfly is a little tetchy in fairness....Finding out that while family is a wonderful thing sleepless nights aren't that great ....Or maybe he is tired of hearing Tino go on about Wolverine on the cucumber roll thread....Either way he is a lawyer so don't feel sorry for him.


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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Fri 14 Jun 2024 - 16:56

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Superfly is a little tetchy in fairness....Finding out that while family is a wonderful thing sleepless nights aren't that great ....Or maybe he is tired of hearing Tino go on about Wolverine on the cucumber roll thread....Either way he is a lawyer so don't feel sorry for him.

Before "Don't Knows" were allocated on the Yougov poll Reform led by 4 points over the Tories....But it's only one poll and Farage can't gatecrash the final BBC debate on one poll.

BBC won't let Sunak be gangbanged anyway...

Conhome poll.......Would you welcome Nigel Farage in to the Conservative party ??

Yes 56
No..37

Farage wins Clacton which is no given as I expect movement towards the incumbents eventually....I think that Reform and the Tories will melt in to one...Think Mordaunt if she holds her seat is probably nailed on as next leader though.


Someone's going to have to explain to me how embracing Farage and merging with Reform helps win back centre-right voters.

Also, I assume the 'four largest parties' debate is based on seats in the last parliament, so all the polls in the world won't magic Reform into consideration.

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Post by Duty281 Sun 16 Jun 2024 - 12:12

Survation's latest MRP, after Farage's announced return:

Labour 456; Tories 72; Lib Dems 56; SNP 37; Reform 7; Plaid 2; Greens 1.

Survation's number of seats for the Tories is nearly half of what YouGov were showing on their last MRP.

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Post by lostinwales Sun 16 Jun 2024 - 16:12

Interesting on social media that the day after the Tories announced they had run out of money for such areas twitter went from being full of, shall we say, Tory bots to being full of Reform bots. It's all 'everybody is corrupt so I'm voting Reform', or 'I used to vote X but only Reform can save us'. It feels exactly like when there were endless posts going 'I voted remain but have changed my mind because of the way the EU has treated us'. Everything feels so manufactured, and more than a bit like the scenario we had pre brexit referendum. The fuss made over Farage and the strange people he finds to stand as candidates (before they get kicked out because of animal abuse, corruption etc) is just unreal, given they had 1 MP (elected under a different flag) and 10 whole councillors. Compare and contrast with Lib Dem coverage, green party etc.

Somewhere along the way there is some money behind Reform, and that could be coming from anywhere.

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Post by Samo Mon 17 Jun 2024 - 10:06

Another Reform candidate being stood down after troublesome views have came out. Who’d’ve thought that a political party private company pretending to be a political party founded and led by a racist fascist would be attracting such troublesome people. Its a mystery.

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