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Political round up.............

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Post by Duty281 Fri Mar 01, 2024 7:58 am

First topic message reminder :

Astonishing win in terms of margin. I was surprised that the ex-Labour candidate polled as low as 8%, but I guess word spread about his removal and he was viewed, effectively, as another independent.

Even if he wasn't removed, I think Galloway still wins, so it was a stroke of luck for Starmer in that he can ignore this defeat.

I thought Galloway would be out when the GE rolls around; now I'm not 100% sure. The issue of Gaza is hurting Labour amongst its once almost guaranteed Muslim vote.

I think this result shows that an Islamic party, if led by a brilliant campaigner, is a very viable option for the future. They could stand in areas where the Muslim population is relatively high and maybe win a couple of dozen seats at a GE, being similar to the SNP in terms of insurgency.

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Post by Duty281 Fri Apr 19, 2024 1:33 pm

Just under two weeks away from the local elections, which will be an amusing preliminary before the main event in the autumn/winter. Very Happy

The Tories are defending 985 local seats in this set of local elections; Labour 965; the Lib Dems 410.

The vast majority of seats up for contest this year were last contested in 2021, when the Tories were doing very well. How quickly things can change.

According to Rallings and Thrasher, the Tories vote in 2021 was at 40%....this year it's going to plummet. In 2023 the vote was down to 29%, and Rallings and Thrasher reckon that if it's the same number again this year then the Tories will lose around 500 seats. But it could well be lower than last year...

It could be further worsened by Reform nipping away at the Tories in some seats.

The Blackpool South by election is going to be on the same day, which will be an easy win for Labour. And Khan should extend his term as Labour mayor comfortably enough. There's also a lot of seemingly pointless 'Police and Crime Commissioners' up for re election, most of them are currently Tory, so that may represent another change, plus some other mayoral contests that hardly anyone seems to want.

Sunak's great plan for masterminding a comeback appears to revolve around removing the power of GPs to sign people off work. That really taps into what the people want and will get the votes, no doubt, Tory surge incoming.

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Post by lostinwales Fri Apr 19, 2024 7:57 pm

It would be easier to take the Tories more seriously if they stopped choosing joke candidates like Susan Hall

Not that it is likely that I would ever vote for them, of course

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Post by mountain man Mon Apr 22, 2024 2:45 pm

Assume most will have seen this in the news :

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68872398

Not quite sure why the police have to apologise for basically giving the man some good advice about not antagonising the pro Palistine march in which if he'd been allowed to cross road and confront them(which is obviously intended to do) he'd have almost certainly been assaulted. I watched footage on news and the officer was polite and was protecting him by preventing him going over road.
The quote of "looking openly Jewish" has been leapt on but seeing as there is a Palistine/Isreal conflict on at the moment given the way the man, who is the head of the Campaign for Antisemitism, was attired it was a reasonable assumption.
In retrospect given the fuss the quote has caused, maybe next time the officer won't use those words but I don't see it as offensive or provocative etc.

As ever these days, far too many people go looking for offence at every opportunity.

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Post by navyblueshorts Mon Apr 22, 2024 3:57 pm

mountain man wrote:Assume most will have seen this in the news :

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68872398

Not quite sure why the police have to apologise for basically giving the man some good advice about not antagonising the pro Palistine march in which if he'd been allowed to cross road and confront them(which is obviously intended to do) he'd have almost certainly been assaulted. I watched footage on news and the officer was polite and was protecting him by preventing him going over road.
The quote of "looking openly Jewish" has been leapt on but seeing as there is a Palistine/Isreal conflict on at the moment given the way the man, who is the head of the Campaign for Antisemitism, was attired it was a reasonable assumption.
In retrospect given the fuss the quote has caused, maybe next time the officer won't use those words but I don't see it as offensive or provocative etc.

As ever these days, far too many people go looking for offence at every opportunity.
Hadn't seen this latest on this issue, but have to admit I did wonder why initial stills of this person's interactions with the Met were a bit odd as carrying CAS logos - almost as if someone was along for the ride and they were really trying to get some 'anti-Semitism' on camera - when he initially claimed to have been just on the way from attending the Synagogue.

He was 'openly Jewish' (unless he was in fancy dress), so don't see a real problem with the words being used. The copper was clearly stating a fact, with a view to the obvious issue re. potential trouble with marchers and avoiding a potential problem. What he wasn't saying was that being 'openly Jewish' was any issue per se, even if that's how it's being deliberately viewed by clowns like Braverman and Sunak.
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Post by Duty281 Mon Apr 29, 2024 9:07 am

Yousaf on his way out. Lasted longer than I thought he would, to be fair.

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Post by GSC Mon Apr 29, 2024 10:53 am

Seems like they've struggling for an identity beyond indy? Sturgeon held it together but they're taking blows from all angles now
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Post by navyblueshorts Thu May 02, 2024 9:45 am

Nice. Lovely people the IDF...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cw07wgrwzywo

Plus ça change...
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Post by Duty281 Thu May 02, 2024 10:36 am

Latest YouGov poll.

Labour 44%; Tories 18%; Reform 15%.

Come on, Nige, lead Reform and put the Tories in third.

Going to be another bruising day for Sunak with the local elections happening today. Will he even lead the Tories into the GE?

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Post by GSC Thu May 02, 2024 12:58 pm

Who else is going to take on the job for a few months until they get smashed in a GE? Might as well just call it now if they're gonna replace Sunak
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Post by Duty281 Thu May 02, 2024 1:18 pm

GSC wrote:Who else is going to take on the job for a few months until they get smashed in a GE? Might as well just call it now if they're gonna replace Sunak

I did wonder if Cameron might do it as a caretaker role, then hand off what's left to a new leader after the GE.

If Sunak steps down, or is forced out, I can't see anyone who's an MP willingly taking the greatest of hospital passes.

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Post by GSC Thu May 02, 2024 4:41 pm

I guess I just don't really see the point. Think you just annoy the public more. Better off just taking the medicine and rebuilding than dragging this out for a miracle
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Post by mountain man Thu May 02, 2024 5:17 pm

Utterly pointless the Tories changing leader pre election. Basically everyone knows Labour are going to win, I just can't see any other outcome unless something extraordinary happens before.

So, anyone who takes over leadership is going to get hammered.

Unless someone just wants to say they were PM for a few months/weeks then it's not happening. Far better to get election done, then change leader. Only thing is who wants it, as be at least 4 years in opposition which probaly isn't that attractive a proposition and then when subsequent GE rolls along next time possibly yet another leadership contest.

Anyway, I reckon being PM is a crap job. Everyone hates you, even own party regardless of whether you are left right or middle.

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Post by mountain man Fri May 03, 2024 8:16 am

Kind of sums him up, Boris Johnson went to a polling station yesterday to vote and was turned away through not having taken photo ID.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68947834

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Post by Duty281 Fri May 03, 2024 8:27 am

Going as expected. Tories have lost about half of their seats.

Labour thrashed them in the by election. Reform did a little better, but still couldn't eclipse the % UKIP got in the 2015 GE.

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Post by GSC Fri May 03, 2024 9:09 am

Lets just call the GE and get it over with now
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Post by Duty281 Fri May 03, 2024 10:04 am

mountain man wrote:Kind of sums him up, Boris Johnson went to a polling station yesterday to vote and was turned away through not having taken photo ID.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68947834

Publicity stunt.

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Post by navyblueshorts Fri May 03, 2024 10:08 am

Duty281 wrote:
GSC wrote:Who else is going to take on the job for a few months until they get smashed in a GE? Might as well just call it now if they're gonna replace Sunak

I did wonder if Cameron might do it as a caretaker role, then hand off what's left to a new leader after the GE.

If Sunak steps down, or is forced out, I can't see anyone who's an MP willingly taking the greatest of hospital passes.
Cameron? You're kidding, right? He caused this Tory omnishambles with his absurd sop to the wingnuts in his party, and then he ran away.
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Post by Duty281 Fri May 03, 2024 10:08 am

Independent candidates have won eight seats in Oldham. Of those eight, five were candidates who stood on a pro-Gaza, anti-Labour platform.

All five of those won their seats directly from Labour.

Labour are four short of a majority on the council now, putting it into No Overall Control. So it's fair to say Labour lost Oldham due to their stance on Israel-Gaza.


Parts of this country in 2024. Rolling Eyes

I live in West Yorkshire and mayoral candidates here have spent way too much time talking about the relative irrelevance of Israel/Palestine during their campaign.

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Post by Duty281 Fri May 03, 2024 10:11 am

navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
GSC wrote:Who else is going to take on the job for a few months until they get smashed in a GE? Might as well just call it now if they're gonna replace Sunak

I did wonder if Cameron might do it as a caretaker role, then hand off what's left to a new leader after the GE.

If Sunak steps down, or is forced out, I can't see anyone who's an MP willingly taking the greatest of hospital passes.
Cameron? You're kidding, right? He caused this Tory omnishambles with his absurd sop to the wingnuts in his party, and then he ran away.

Nope. If Sunak steps down, I can see Cameron being a caretaker leader as no one else wants it.

Holding an EU Referendum was also entirely justified, as we'd never voted on it before.

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Post by navyblueshorts Fri May 03, 2024 10:11 am

mountain man wrote:Kind of sums him up, Boris Johnson went to a polling station yesterday to vote and was turned away through not having taken photo ID.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68947834
Yeah. It was his bloody legislation re. photo ID, but knowing (actually, I'm glad I don't) the man, bet he turned up with all the usual Poopie bluster and thinking it didn't apply to him - much like all the Covid rule-busting etc. Wish he'd just **** off for good.
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Post by navyblueshorts Fri May 03, 2024 10:14 am

Duty281 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
GSC wrote:Who else is going to take on the job for a few months until they get smashed in a GE? Might as well just call it now if they're gonna replace Sunak

I did wonder if Cameron might do it as a caretaker role, then hand off what's left to a new leader after the GE.

If Sunak steps down, or is forced out, I can't see anyone who's an MP willingly taking the greatest of hospital passes.
Cameron? You're kidding, right? He caused this Tory omnishambles with his absurd sop to the wingnuts in his party, and then he ran away.

Nope. If Sunak steps down, I can see Cameron being a caretaker leader as no one else wants it.

Holding an EU Referendum was also entirely justified, as we'd never voted on it before.
No; didn't think you were kidding, and the Tories are so dumb they'd probably think it's a good idea too. In some sense, it's not entirely stupid as he's been PM before (albeit, Poopie) and everyone would know it was a holding role. For me though, he can sod off; if I ever meet him, I'll punch his lights out.
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Post by Duty281 Fri May 03, 2024 10:17 am

navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
GSC wrote:Who else is going to take on the job for a few months until they get smashed in a GE? Might as well just call it now if they're gonna replace Sunak

I did wonder if Cameron might do it as a caretaker role, then hand off what's left to a new leader after the GE.

If Sunak steps down, or is forced out, I can't see anyone who's an MP willingly taking the greatest of hospital passes.
Cameron? You're kidding, right? He caused this Tory omnishambles with his absurd sop to the wingnuts in his party, and then he ran away.

Nope. If Sunak steps down, I can see Cameron being a caretaker leader as no one else wants it.

Holding an EU Referendum was also entirely justified, as we'd never voted on it before.
No; didn't think you were kidding, and the Tories are so dumb they'd probably think it's a good idea too. In some sense, it's not entirely stupid as he's been PM before (albeit, Poopie) and everyone would know it was a holding role. For me though, he can sod off; if I ever meet him, I'll punch his lights out.

Well it's not necessarily about it being a good idea. It's more than he would be the only one left, and there's not an idea in the world that can save them now anyway. If Sunak did step down, I don't see why Mordaunt/Badenoch would take it and lead the Tories into, possibly, their biggest ever defeat and be remembered in history just for that.

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Post by navyblueshorts Fri May 03, 2024 10:18 am

Duty281 wrote:...Holding an EU Referendum was also entirely justified, as we'd never voted on it before.
Missed this. Yes, one could argue this position, apart from the fact it's nonsense in reality. Cameron did what he did to pacify the wingnuts, which didn't even work, did it? He failed to even return to the fact it was only advisory, he didn't set it up to require a ≥66% majority (what a moron), and he quit as soon as the result was in. Cretin.
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Post by mountain man Fri May 03, 2024 10:20 am

Duty281 wrote:
mountain man wrote:Kind of sums him up, Boris Johnson went to a polling station yesterday to vote and was turned away through not having taken photo ID.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68947834

Publicity stunt.

Could be or it could be he thought he wouldn't need it as he's so well known. Either way pretty stupid.

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Post by Duty281 Fri May 03, 2024 10:27 am

navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:...Holding an EU Referendum was also entirely justified, as we'd never voted on it before.
Missed this. Yes, one could argue this position, apart from the fact it's nonsense in reality. Cameron did what he did to pacify the wingnuts, which didn't even work, did it? He failed to even return to the fact it was only advisory, he didn't set it up to require a ≥66% majority (what a moron), and he quit as soon as the result was in. Cretin.

Why is it nonsense? The EU had a lot of influence and we were never asked democratically about the EU. We should have been asked.

It wasn't a campaign where we told it was advisory. Every one went into it thinking the vote mattered, and it did. It would have been sabotage and an immense act of self-harm to try and walk it back after the vote had happened. Maybe, if Cameron had stressed it was an advisory referendum during the campaign, and that voting Leave wouldn't necessarily mean leaving, it could have been plausible. But then there wouldn't have been much point.

66% majority? Why. We only went into the EEC by a majority of 112 people. Yet we supposedly should have 66% of the population as a whole voting against the EU to get out of it? Foolish.

He did quit as the result came in. That was hilarious, but also shows the mark of the man.

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Post by navyblueshorts Fri May 03, 2024 10:29 am

Now, this really would be a shame, wouldn't it?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68938022

I would say the chickens might be coming home to roost, but I shouldn't underestimate how much they're protected.
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Post by GSC Fri May 03, 2024 10:32 am

To be fair to Boris, you'd think most people would be able to recognise a massive t*** when they see one
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Post by navyblueshorts Fri May 03, 2024 10:35 am

Duty281 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:...Holding an EU Referendum was also entirely justified, as we'd never voted on it before.
Missed this. Yes, one could argue this position, apart from the fact it's nonsense in reality. Cameron did what he did to pacify the wingnuts, which didn't even work, did it? He failed to even return to the fact it was only advisory, he didn't set it up to require a ≥66% majority (what a moron), and he quit as soon as the result was in. Cretin.

Why is it nonsense? The EU had a lot of influence and we were never asked democratically about the EU. We should have been asked.

It wasn't a campaign where we told it was advisory. Every one went into it thinking the vote mattered, and it did. It would have been sabotage and an immense act of self-harm to try and walk it back after the vote had happened. Maybe, if Cameron had stressed it was an advisory referendum during the campaign, and that voting Leave wouldn't necessarily mean leaving, it could have been plausible. But then there wouldn't have been much point.

66% majority? Why. We only went into the EEC by a majority of 112 people. Yet we supposedly should have 66% of the population as a whole voting against the EU to get out of it? Foolish.

He did quit as the result came in. That was hilarious, but also shows the mark of the man.
That's all fine, but that is nothing to do w/ why Cameron agreed to call the referendum. He did it purely to placate the zealots on the right of his party, which didn't even work.

A 2/3 majority would have made obvious sense for something of such magnitude. As it was, we got the 52-48 rubbish, with all the blight that's caused. TBH, it wouldn't have mattered that much as seen by recent issues re. Rwanda etc. The dialogue/debate over the rights/wrongs of the EU was puerile in the extreme - another example of just how poor our politicians are.

The mark of the man? Laugh. No; it shows what an out of touch, weak individual he is. He could quite easily have stood down as PM, which would have been fine, and returned to the backbenches to serve his constituents, but then serving his constituents wasn't near the top of his list of priorities, was it?
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Post by Duty281 Fri May 03, 2024 10:44 am

navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:...Holding an EU Referendum was also entirely justified, as we'd never voted on it before.
Missed this. Yes, one could argue this position, apart from the fact it's nonsense in reality. Cameron did what he did to pacify the wingnuts, which didn't even work, did it? He failed to even return to the fact it was only advisory, he didn't set it up to require a ≥66% majority (what a moron), and he quit as soon as the result was in. Cretin.

Why is it nonsense? The EU had a lot of influence and we were never asked democratically about the EU. We should have been asked.

It wasn't a campaign where we told it was advisory. Every one went into it thinking the vote mattered, and it did. It would have been sabotage and an immense act of self-harm to try and walk it back after the vote had happened. Maybe, if Cameron had stressed it was an advisory referendum during the campaign, and that voting Leave wouldn't necessarily mean leaving, it could have been plausible. But then there wouldn't have been much point.

66% majority? Why. We only went into the EEC by a majority of 112 people. Yet we supposedly should have 66% of the population as a whole voting against the EU to get out of it? Foolish.

He did quit as the result came in. That was hilarious, but also shows the mark of the man.
That's all fine, but that is nothing to do w/ why Cameron agreed to call the referendum. He did it purely to placate the zealots on the right of his party, which didn't even work.

A 2/3 majority would have made obvious sense for something of such magnitude. As it was, we got the 52-48 rubbish, with all the blight that's caused. TBH, it wouldn't have mattered that much as seen by recent issues re. Rwanda etc. The dialogue/debate over the rights/wrongs of the EU was puerile in the extreme - another example of just how poor our politicians are.

The mark of the man? Laugh. No; it shows what an out of touch, weak individual he is. He could quite easily have stood down as PM, which would have been fine, and returned to the backbenches to serve his constituents, but then serving his constituents wasn't near the top of his list of priorities, was it?

3rd para - yes, that's what I meant.

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Post by Soul Requiem Fri May 03, 2024 1:42 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:

A 2/3 majority would have made obvious sense for something of such magnitude. As it was, we got the 52-48 rubbish, with all the blight that's caused. TBH, it wouldn't have mattered that much as seen by recent issues re. Rwanda etc. The dialogue/debate over the rights/wrongs of the EU was puerile in the extreme - another example of just how poor our politicians are.

A 2/3 majority makes obvious for anyone who voted remain, it would have made no sense whatsoever to anyone voting leave.

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Post by Lowlandbrit Fri May 03, 2024 3:02 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:That's all fine, but that is nothing to do w/ why Cameron agreed to call the referendum. He did it purely to placate the zealots on the right of his party, which didn't even work.
Cameron's problem was that it turned out to be a much more popular idea nationally than he realised. It was pretty clear he thought he could be 'forced' to give it up during coalition talks, only to more or less accidentally end up with a majority because of it.

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Post by Samo Fri May 03, 2024 4:18 pm

It was only a popular idea because for the previous 6 years Cameron had ripped the arse out of public services. The country was on its knees and the client media couldnt lay the blame on him so they shifted blame to the EU.

There really wasnt much appetite to leave the EU prior to 2010. It was reserved for the fringe wingnuts in UKIP. People will try to rewrite history to claim there was always a big movement to leave but there really wasnt.

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Post by Soul Requiem Fri May 03, 2024 7:01 pm

Samo wrote:It was only a popular idea because for the previous 6 years Cameron had ripped the arse out of public services. The country was on its knees and the client media couldnt lay the blame on him so they shifted blame to the EU.

There really wasnt much appetite to leave the EU prior to 2010. It was reserved for the fringe wingnuts in UKIP. People will try to rewrite history to claim there was always a big movement to leave but there really wasnt.

So what's the excuse for it being popular in 2010?

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Post by Duty281 Fri May 03, 2024 7:54 pm

Lowlandbrit wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:That's all fine, but that is nothing to do w/ why Cameron agreed to call the referendum. He did it purely to placate the zealots on the right of his party, which didn't even work.
Cameron's problem was that it turned out to be a much more popular idea nationally than he realised. It was pretty clear he thought he could be 'forced' to give it up during coalition talks, only to more or less accidentally end up with a majority because of it.

Very true. He probably didn't think he'd win a majority in 2015.

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Post by Duty281 Fri May 03, 2024 8:10 pm

Samo wrote:It was only a popular idea because for the previous 6 years Cameron had ripped the arse out of public services. The country was on its knees and the client media couldnt lay the blame on him so they shifted blame to the EU.

There really wasnt much appetite to leave the EU prior to 2010. It was reserved for the fringe wingnuts in UKIP. People will try to rewrite history to claim there was always a big movement to leave but there really wasnt.

The British Social Attitudes survey shows there was always a strong presence of leave the EU + those who wanted to reduce the EU's powers. Those two combined crossed over into majority status in 1996, and for nearly every single year after it remained a majority.

When the referendum came around it was obvious the EU wasn't ever reducing its powers, so enough of those in the second camp joined those who wanted to leave.

History will show there's always been sizable skepticism to the EU in the UK, and we never really fitted in to their project.

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Post by Pebbles Fri May 03, 2024 9:22 pm

Twitter chat seems to think Sadiq Khan may well have lost to the crackpot

ULEZ and Gaza may have caused the unthinkable

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Post by Duty281 Fri May 03, 2024 9:54 pm

I'd be wary of Twitter rumours. If Twitter were to be believed then Johnson lost his seat in 2019. Khan was something like 20 points ahead in the polls so, if he did lose, it would be the biggest polling error in recent times.

It shouldn't take so long to count, also. Result should have been delivered earlier today; no excuse for it to take until Saturday lunchtime.

Overall, seems to have been an as expected set of local elections. Tories have lost nearly half of their seats. Labour have made some solid gains, but independents, LDs and Greens have also profited from local voting behaviour. Reform continue to underwhelm, relative to their polling figures (I know they didn't stand in nearly enough seats; their organisation is worse than pre-2010 UKIP).

Main concern for Labour is their Muslim vote is splitting. It may actually cost them a couple of seats in the GE if the Workers' Party gets properly organised. But they're well on course to win the GE. Starmer just needs to make sure he has a Blair like majority to ensure rebellions don't give him an unnecessary headache.

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Post by lostinwales Sat May 04, 2024 1:28 am

Pebbles wrote:Twitter chat seems to think Sadiq Khan may well have lost to the crackpot

ULEZ and Gaza may have caused the unthinkable

No exit poll no votes counted until today, so it is a weird kind of BS that the Tory hive mind is pushing. Regardless it's a sign of how low the current Tory party have fallen that the best they could come up with to stand against Khan was Hall. I saw this terrific tweet the other day

Spare a thought for poor Count Binface this Thursday. Years spent establishing himself as a joke candidate for London mayor, and then the Tories run Susan Hall.

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Post by lostinwales Sat May 04, 2024 6:06 pm

lostinwales wrote:
Pebbles wrote:Twitter chat seems to think Sadiq Khan may well have lost to the crackpot

ULEZ and Gaza may have caused the unthinkable

No exit poll no votes counted until today, so it is a weird kind of BS that the Tory hive mind is pushing. Regardless it's a sign of how low the current Tory party have fallen that the best they could come up with to stand against Khan was Hall. I saw this terrific tweet the other day

Spare a thought for poor Count Binface this Thursday. Years spent establishing himself as a joke candidate for London mayor, and then the Tories run Susan Hall.

The results are in and Khan has increased his share of the vote. Shocked to see that over 800K voted for Hall, but never much doubt whatever the fools started spouting on social media

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Post by GSC Sat May 04, 2024 6:48 pm

To be fair they were neck and neck before a vote was counted
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Post by Duty281 Sat May 04, 2024 6:54 pm

lostinwales wrote:
lostinwales wrote:
Pebbles wrote:Twitter chat seems to think Sadiq Khan may well have lost to the crackpot

ULEZ and Gaza may have caused the unthinkable

No exit poll no votes counted until today, so it is a weird kind of BS that the Tory hive mind is pushing. Regardless it's a sign of how low the current Tory party have fallen that the best they could come up with to stand against Khan was Hall. I saw this terrific tweet the other day

Spare a thought for poor Count Binface this Thursday. Years spent establishing himself as a joke candidate for London mayor, and then the Tories run Susan Hall.

The results are in and Khan has increased his share of the vote. Shocked to see that over 800K voted for Hall, but never much doubt whatever the fools started spouting on social media

As mentioned, the fools can be found in all parts of the political spectrum, like the Labour fools who were talking about Johnson losing his seat in 2019.

The Hall vote can be considered an anti-Khan vote; the only way to remove Khan was to vote for Hall. The margin was indeed closer than the polling suggested.

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Post by Duty281 Sat May 04, 2024 7:04 pm

These local elections have been very depressing. The turnouts have been very low, indicating people want less politics, not more. But Labour will give us more devolution, unfortunately.

Look at the turnout in these mayoral elections. Below 28% in the East Midlands. Below 30% in Manchester. Below 25% in Liverpool. And on it goes. I think the highest turnout for a mayoral election was in London, with just over 40% of the vote. Some idiot, well a clever idiot actually, got tens of thousands of votes in the West Midlands election by campaigning on Gaza.

Really relevant. Doh

Turnout for the PCC elections was even worse. Some places didn't even touch 20%.

We should ask whether these expensive mayoral and PCC positions are desired by the public (London excepted)?

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Post by Duty281 Sat May 04, 2024 10:00 pm

Labour edge the West Midlands election. Turnout below 30%. Sky News and the Guardian, clueless as ever, labeling it a 'shock' defeat for the Tories...even though Labour were leading in three of the five opinion polls conducted for this election.

Final results overall mean the Tories have fell below some very low expectations. I really don't see the point of Sunak limping on for another few months, before getting destroyed, but it appears that's the way it's going to be.

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Post by navyblueshorts Sat May 04, 2024 10:18 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:

A 2/3 majority would have made obvious sense for something of such magnitude. As it was, we got the 52-48 rubbish, with all the blight that's caused. TBH, it wouldn't have mattered that much as seen by recent issues re. Rwanda etc. The dialogue/debate over the rights/wrongs of the EU was puerile in the extreme - another example of just how poor our politicians are.

A 2/3 majority makes obvious for anyone who voted remain, it would have made no sense whatsoever to anyone voting leave.
Headscratch
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Post by Duty281 Sat May 04, 2024 10:37 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:

A 2/3 majority would have made obvious sense for something of such magnitude. As it was, we got the 52-48 rubbish, with all the blight that's caused. TBH, it wouldn't have mattered that much as seen by recent issues re. Rwanda etc. The dialogue/debate over the rights/wrongs of the EU was puerile in the extreme - another example of just how poor our politicians are.

A 2/3 majority makes obvious for anyone who voted remain, it would have made no sense whatsoever to anyone voting leave.
Headscratch

His point was perfectly clear.

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Post by lostinwales Sun May 05, 2024 3:55 pm

Duty281 wrote:These local elections have been very depressing. The turnouts have been very low, indicating people want less politics, not more. But Labour will give us more devolution, unfortunately.

Look at the turnout in these mayoral elections. Below 28% in the East Midlands. Below 30% in Manchester. Below 25% in Liverpool. And on it goes. I think the highest turnout for a mayoral election was in London, with just over 40% of the vote. Some idiot, well a clever idiot actually, got tens of thousands of votes in the West Midlands election by campaigning on Gaza.

Really relevant. Doh

Turnout for the PCC elections was even worse. Some places didn't even touch 20%.

We should ask whether these expensive mayoral and PCC positions are desired by the public (London excepted)?

I have to say I have no idea what PCC's do.

Mayors do seem to make more of a difference. I guess you can't instantly expect people to buy into changes to the system but voting numbers in anything other than the general elections have always been poor. Then again the 'no difference between Labour and Tory' propaganda does genuinely seem to be part of an active strategy to discourage voters who might otherwise put their cross for someone other than a representative of our current government.

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Post by Duty281 Sun May 05, 2024 11:27 pm

Downing Street has shelved plans for a general election this summer, The Telegraph understands, with an autumn vote now widely expected after Tory local election defeats.

Rishi Sunak is said by allies to hope that an improving economic picture and the Rwanda deportation flights expected this summer can improve his re-election chances in the autumn.

Number 10 sources had suggested that if a plot to oust the Prime Minister had materialised after the local election results, it could have triggered an election in June or July.

But Tory rebels are understood to have given up on changing the party’s leader before the general election and senior figures working on the Tory campaign now believe it is “80 to 90 per cent likely” Mr Sunak will reject a summer election, instead calling one for October or November.


Wouldn't be surprised if he holds on until January. The way things are going the Tories could be the third biggest party by vote share by then. Very Happy

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Post by lostinwales Mon May 06, 2024 6:55 am

Yeah I don't think Sunak will be any more popular in 6 months time. Might also be just long enough to show that either the Rwanda flights don't do anything or for something horrible to happen to someone that has been sent out there

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Post by GSC Mon May 06, 2024 10:26 am

Squatting in number 10 waiting for a miracle mostly
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Post by navyblueshorts Tue May 07, 2024 11:42 am

Duty281 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:

A 2/3 majority would have made obvious sense for something of such magnitude. As it was, we got the 52-48 rubbish, with all the blight that's caused. TBH, it wouldn't have mattered that much as seen by recent issues re. Rwanda etc. The dialogue/debate over the rights/wrongs of the EU was puerile in the extreme - another example of just how poor our politicians are.

A 2/3 majority makes obvious for anyone who voted remain, it would have made no sense whatsoever to anyone voting leave.
Headscratch

His point was perfectly clear.
Not really, no. His bias is clear, yes. I'm not arguing that a 67% requirement should have been stated as someone that voted remain; it's just demonstrably sensible. Period.
The lack of a referendum specifying the need for clear water in any decision is just another example of how cr@p Cameron and the Brexit debate was.

The fact that you and he frame this as a "Well, a remainer would propose that wouldn't they?!" kind of confirms the puerile nature of the 'debate' and the width of the divide that this country has no idea of how to move beyond. Cleary we haven't yet grown up.


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