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2024 T20 World Cup

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Post by Duty281 Wed May 22, 2024 12:04 pm

First topic message reminder :

Just over a week away now from some glorious six-hitting in the cricketing heartlands of Barbados, Trinidad, Saint Lucia and, um, New York City.

England are defending the crown they won at the MCG in front of 80,000 people in November 2022. They'll probably be hoping it goes a bit better than their defence of the 50 over title! The tournament is, as T20 competitions are, very wide open. If England were to win it again they'd be the first men's team to win back to back World T20 titles in the history of the competition.

Chasing them keenly are the bookmakers favourites India, who are very, very thirsty because of a drought that has existed since 2013 in ICC tournaments. Australia will obviously be there or thereabouts, and there's plenty of excitement around the West Indies, twice winners of this competition, and how glorious it would be to see them lift a trophy at home.

Or perhaps South Africa will finally stop being Tottenham and actually win something? But it's T20. So it could be anyone. Ireland, Scotland, Uganda....USA?

I thought the format of the last couple of T20 World Cups was absolutely perfect. Naturally, then, the ICC have altered it for this year! So we've now got 20 teams, up from 16, and 55 matches in total, up from 45.

There's no preliminary round this time. All teams start off the same. Four groups of five teams. All play each other once. Top two in each group go through to the Super 8s. Super 8s is split into two groups of four. No points are carried over and all teams play each other once in the Super 8s. Top two in each Super 8 group go through to the semi-finals, from which it's a straight knockout. Means a team will play nine games if they are to lift the trophy, in comparison to England's seven games to win it in 2022.

One curious thing about the format, and the ICC love curious things (such as there being no reserve day for one semi-final), is that the finishing places in the initial group are seeded. For example, England are designated B1 in their group, and Australia are B2, which means that it's irrelevant if England come first or second. They will go through to Group 2 of the Super 8s regardless of finishing first or second. I suppose it guarantees certainty for fans, as they know where teams are playing after the initial group stage.

While I don't think it's been directly said, the draw was not a fair and open one. It took place behind closed doors and ensured India/Pakistan were in the same group, as well as some other long-standing rivalries, such as USA v Canada. I'm surprised the ICC didn't put India and Pakistan in the same Super 8 group as well! The groups are:

Groups:

The fixture list is all over the place with timings, so try and keep up! If you're in the UK, games can start at 01:30, or they might begin at 18:00, and quite a few matches seem to overlap in the early stages.

Fixture List (All times BST):

Squads (Not yet finalised):

Outright Odds (Bet365):

The USA and Canada will be starting this one off in Texas. That's the most unlikely cricket sentence ever uttered.

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Post by eirebilly_01 Tue Jun 11, 2024 5:58 am

I thought that the umpires in yesterdays game were extremely poor and very biased towards South Africa. Excluding the bad call that cost Bangladesh 4 runs (not a rule that I like but it is what it is) there were so many wide deliveries that were not called wide by the umpires and the Rabada wicket (umpires call) was barely requested before the umpire raised his finger. Not saying that Bangladesh were robbed but the umpiring was some of the worst I have seen.

I do like these tracks that bring the bowlers into the game and create close games very much so.

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Post by KP_fan Tue Jun 11, 2024 6:02 am

The rule in discussion is fair as it stands and one of the most fundamental laws , I think since the start of game.

Batsman  or team cannot be given  runs off the delivery off which bowler takes a wicket.
The only exception I think is stumped off a wide.

The logic being that a delivery is smallest indivisible unit of time that counts in cricket.
On a given delivery a batsman's status is is binary, either he is batting or was given out.
If given out, he could not have scored runs for himself or team.

Debate if any should be on the "umpire's call" rule, which in my view may appear unfair  but to me is quite OK.
Because it balances out for all sides , unless the umpire is deliberately biased.


Last edited by KP_fan on Tue Jun 11, 2024 9:00 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by VTR Tue Jun 11, 2024 8:59 am

Well I won't lose any sleep over it, but it did seem a bit unfair. Lucky Steve Bucknor isn't still around, otherwise the average team would lose about 20 runs per innings

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Post by Duty281 Tue Jun 11, 2024 9:37 am

Canada v Pakistan this afternoon in New York. If Pakistan lose this time then they really are out, but an expected win just about keeps the flame burning.

Then Sri Lanka v Nepal in the early hours, same situation for SL, it's a must win and an expected win. Although there is plenty of rain forecast in Florida. EDIT: Seems Sri Lanka v Nepal is almost certainly going to be washed out. Currently odds of 10/1 on Betfair that a game is actually completed.

Weather is not looking good for Friday's USA/Ireland game either, also in Florida. The USA just need a point to make the Super Eights, so this will be good for them. But the weather for all the key games remaining in England's group looks absolutely fine.

Followed closely by Australia v Namibia. Australia can join South Africa in the Super Eights and make it three from three with a victory. A Namibian upset would give Australia motivation to beat the Scots.

Good that the tournament is reaching some jeopardy already. Took about seven months for that to happen with the 50 over version!

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Post by Duty281 Tue Jun 11, 2024 12:03 pm

Cricinfo have also thrown some light on to the extent of England's task:

If Scotland lose to Australia by 20 runs (say, chasing 161), England will have to win their last two games, against Oman and Namibia, by a combined margin of at least 94 runs to go ahead of Scotland on run rate.

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Post by KP_fan Tue Jun 11, 2024 1:35 pm

Duty281 wrote:Cricinfo have also thrown some light on to the extent of England's task:

If Scotland lose to Australia by 20 runs (say, chasing 161), England will have to win their last two games, against Oman and Namibia, by a combined margin of at least 94 runs to go ahead of Scotland on run rate.


I would expect Eng to rather comfortably get the 94 run margin.
Actually they may be able to get that margin in a single game..........it's Oman & Namibia
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Post by Duty281 Tue Jun 11, 2024 2:00 pm

KP_fan wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Cricinfo have also thrown some light on to the extent of England's task:

If Scotland lose to Australia by 20 runs (say, chasing 161), England will have to win their last two games, against Oman and Namibia, by a combined margin of at least 94 runs to go ahead of Scotland on run rate.
 

I would expect Eng to rather comfortably get the 94 run margin.
Actually they may be able to get that margin in a single game..........it's Oman & Namibia

Should do, but no guarantees. Australia only managed to beat Oman by 39 runs.

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Post by Pal Joey Tue Jun 11, 2024 2:22 pm

Duty281 wrote:
KP_fan wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Cricinfo have also thrown some light on to the extent of England's task:

If Scotland lose to Australia by 20 runs (say, chasing 161), England will have to win their last two games, against Oman and Namibia, by a combined margin of at least 94 runs to go ahead of Scotland on run rate.
 

I would expect Eng to rather comfortably get the 94 run margin.
Actually they may be able to get that margin in a single game..........it's Oman & Namibia

Should do, but no guarantees. Australia only managed to beat Oman by 39 runs.

We didn't want to soften them up too much for you. Smile

No, I think they'll win by 100+ runs or by 8 or 9 wickets. England, that is.

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Post by Duty281 Tue Jun 11, 2024 3:16 pm

Pakistan stick Canada in at New York. Canada defended 137 here v Ireland, can they do the same again?

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Post by Duty281 Tue Jun 11, 2024 5:17 pm

106 for Canada. Johnson with a brilliant 52 and carrying the innings.

Almost certainly not going to be enough, but let's see how it goes.

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Post by Duty281 Tue Jun 11, 2024 6:50 pm

Comfortable win for Pakistan, they stay alive, though not a huge boost to their NRR.

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Post by KP_fan Tue Jun 11, 2024 8:06 pm

Pak's team unity & temperament is shot. Lanka too blows hot & cold, much more cold than hot.
India will dominantly make it to semis & then under-perform in a way that's called choking.
Eng is always working out scenarios.
The super-8 is not really what I thought as name suggests, but rather 2 groups of four.

I think Aus &WI are favorites to win this. They could both feature in final unless they run into each other in semis.



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Post by Duty281 Tue Jun 11, 2024 10:09 pm

I'm glad it is two groups in the Super Eights, otherwise it'll drag on.

Florida hit by torrential rain and flash floods, so virtually no chance of any play between Nepal/Sri Lanka. Means Sri Lanka will be out and a tasty Bangladesh/Netherlands game is up next in that group, on Thursday afternoon. If Bangladesh triumph in that one they're pretty much assured of qualification; if the Dutch win it becomes interesting.

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Post by Duty281 Wed Jun 12, 2024 8:33 am

Aussies picking up the type of win England need. Skittling Namibia for 72, then knocking it off inside 6 overs to secure qualification. No play between Nepal/Sri Lanka.

India v USA this afternoon. The last game in New York. Sad Sad Sad  It's effectively a free hit for the USA. If they can win here, the biggest upset of the competition, they'll be through to the Super Eights, but an expected loss and they've still got the Ireland game where they just need a point (and rain is currently forecast).

The more interesting game is West Indies/New Zealand. We've barely seen NZ in this World Cup, but they must beat the West Indies in this one or it is virtually all over for the Kiwis. A NZ win would suddenly put the pressure back on the West Indies, who would then likely need to beat Afghanistan to advance.

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Post by Marky Wed Jun 12, 2024 1:17 pm

Josh Hazlewood admitting they might take things easy against Scotland to knock England out, at least he's honest about it, it's usually an unspoken thing

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Post by VTR Wed Jun 12, 2024 1:22 pm

Marky wrote:Josh Hazlewood admitting they might take things easy against Scotland to knock England out, at least he's honest about it, it's usually an unspoken thing

Don't blame them really, makes sense for them. If we go out it won't be because of this, the powerplay bowling was a joke against Australia, England had basically lost after something like 3.2 overs and of course a lot of NRR damage was done in the end

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Post by Duty281 Wed Jun 12, 2024 1:30 pm

Marky wrote:Josh Hazlewood admitting they might take things easy against Scotland to knock England out, at least he's honest about it, it's usually an unspoken thing

If England do win their final two games, I really hope Australia don't do something stupid, otherwise it could get ugly.

Like imagine a situation where if Scotland lose by 25 runs or fewer then England get knocked out. One ball left in the game and Scotland are 26 runs behind Australia. In comes the bowler and a massive overstep/massive leg side wide. Oh no! England are out because of it.

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Post by KP_fan Wed Jun 12, 2024 1:57 pm

Marky wrote:Josh Hazlewood admitting they might take things easy against Scotland to knock England out, at least he's honest about it, it's usually an unspoken thing
Once admitted & if executed in Football FIFA regulations would call it "Match Manipulation" which both an offence I guess & a disgrace.

Match manipulation for sporting advantage can be committed for a variety of outcomes, such as ensuring that a team progresses in a certain competition or in order to avoid relegation.

Match manipulation can be defined as the unlawful influencing or alteration, directly or by an act or omission, of the course, result or any other aspect of a football match or competition

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Post by guildfordbat Wed Jun 12, 2024 2:07 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Marky wrote:Josh Hazlewood admitting they might take things easy against Scotland to knock England out, at least he's honest about it, it's usually an unspoken thing

If England do win their final two games, I really hope Australia don't do something stupid, otherwise it could get ugly.

Like imagine a situation where if Scotland lose by 25 runs or fewer then England get knocked out. One ball left in the game and Scotland are 26 runs behind Australia. In comes the bowler and a massive overstep/massive leg side wide. Oh no! England are out because of it.

Hi Duty - I fully understand where you and the other guys here are coming from and why but suspect Hazlewood is more trying to wind up England and their supporters than anything else. Ultimately, I believe the professional sportsman's desire to ensure he defeats the opponent immediately in front of him will outweigh anything else. Australia have already comprehensively beaten England once in this World Cup. They shouldn't be worrying about having to do it a second time in the final.

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Post by Duty281 Wed Jun 12, 2024 3:07 pm

I do indeed expect and hope that is the case. I'm certainly not thinking Australia will throw the game, and they shouldn't worry about England either.

India winning the toss and bowling first in this one. The last game in New York. I'll miss this low scoring bowling paradise.

A win will get the USA through, as unlikely as that seems! If they do lose they'll be motivated to minimise the damage, because it could come down to a NRR decider for 2nd spot between the USA and Pakistan (or Ireland).

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Post by KP_fan Wed Jun 12, 2024 3:09 pm

India have been quite rigid with their team selection & stuck to same 11
Dubey needs to deliver...and he is in as a batting allrounder who bowls decent seam....should be given a bowl at least in these conditions
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Post by Duty281 Wed Jun 12, 2024 4:47 pm

USA battling very hard to get three figures. Siraj pulled in one of the catches of the tournament in the deep, a highlight of the innings.

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Post by KP_fan Wed Jun 12, 2024 5:24 pm

The scoreline looks good for India.
They could have been more clinical
Rohit suffers from not knowing how to use 7 bowlers.
Dravid has checked out and on a paid holiday with family.
India needs kohli to get a big score and do a clinical finish
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Post by Duty281 Wed Jun 12, 2024 5:29 pm

Kohli golden duck. Laugh

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Post by VTR Wed Jun 12, 2024 5:59 pm

Duty281 wrote:I do indeed expect and hope that is the case. I'm certainly not thinking Australia will throw the game, and they shouldn't worry about England.

You won't be saying this when Davey Warner opens the bowling against Scotland

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Post by Duty281 Wed Jun 12, 2024 6:08 pm

VTR wrote:
Duty281 wrote:I do indeed expect and hope that is the case. I'm certainly not thinking Australia will throw the game, and they shouldn't worry about England.

You won't be saying this when Davey Warner opens the bowling against Scotland

He'll reinvent himself as a new ball gun bowler and extend his career for five years.

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Post by king_carlos Wed Jun 12, 2024 6:28 pm

I'd expect Australia to rotate. Starc missed the last game, probably Cummins to miss Scotland. I wouldn't be surprised if Agar plays ahead of Zampa. Probably give Cam Green a hit ahead of Maxi or even Head.

I'd hope England would do the exact same in their scenario. No way I'd be playing Jof or Dilly with qualification secured. Probably try to get Brook up the order, maybe even open ahead of Jos to get him a hit. Maybe look at Surran ahead of Mo or Livi as a leftie who can hit spin. Perhaps look at giving Salt the gloves, have Jos in the outfield.

Australia tried to game the NRR against Windies in '99 I believe, to get NZ out the comp. Batting very slowly but still trying to win the game. It didn't work IIRC.

So long as a team aren't trying to lose, I'm not sure I have an issue with that sort of tactic. They've won all their games to be in a better position in the tournament. Even within Hazlewood's interview he mentions that taking confidence from winning would be more important anyway. It feels a bit mountains from mole hills that Mott has now responded when England still need to overturn their NRR issues in two games before Oz and Scotland meet.

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Post by Duty281 Wed Jun 12, 2024 7:07 pm

Some good fight from the USA in the chase, and they had India in a bit of trouble at 44/3, but Dube and Yadav got them to safety with 10 balls remaining.

India through. USA will join them if they beat Ireland or the game is rained off (forecast a bit sketchy looking very bad). If Ireland beat the USA, then the winners of Pakistan/Ireland (the final game in the group) will tie with the USA and it'll be decided on NRR. Pakistan should almost certainly come through in that scenario, but Ireland have a bit of work to do with the NRR.

There is also an outside scenario of Canada beating India and joining the NRR battle, but that's highly unlikely!

WI v NZ in the early hours. The Kiwis fighting for their survival.

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Post by KP_fan Wed Jun 12, 2024 7:58 pm

They dropped a sitter of Surya, gave away 5 penalty runs for some reason that I could not exactly figure while Watching on phone while on a TEAMS call.
That broke USA's back.
Indian batting is scratchy, Dubey  a giant hitter on Patta IPL pitches is struggling to scratch in mildly seaming conditions against half decent attacks.
India has a rigid template and a rigid batting order that might hurt them.
On the other hand we may not find such pitches and more in this tournament and Dubey might feast on west Indian pitches.

USA I have a feeling will develop faster than Nepal, Middle Eastern and African countries, because they have far more resources.
More grounds,  affluent much larger South  Asian and West Indian origin population, and a baseball culture that makes it easy for American Americans to take this sport on.
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Post by Duty281 Wed Jun 12, 2024 9:29 pm

KP_fan wrote:USA I have a feeling will develop faster than Nepal, Middle Eastern and African countries, because they have far more resources.
More grounds,  affluent much larger South  Asian and West Indian origin population, and a baseball culture that makes it easy for American Americans to take this sport on.

Absolutely, there's enormous potential for USA to become a cricketing power.

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Post by guildfordbat Wed Jun 12, 2024 9:50 pm

KP_fan wrote:They dropped a sitter of Surya, gave away 5 penalty runs for some reason that I could not exactly figure while Watching on phone while on a TEAMS call.
...

No point surely in having a TEAMS call if you can't ask your workmates what's happening in the cricket?! Wink

PS I believe the penalty runs were for twice taking too long to start an over.

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Post by Pal Joey Wed Jun 12, 2024 10:48 pm

guildfordbat wrote:
KP_fan wrote:They dropped a sitter of Surya, gave away 5 penalty runs for some reason that I could not exactly figure while Watching on phone while on a TEAMS call.
...

No point surely in having a TEAMS call if you can't ask your workmates what's happening in the cricket?! Wink

PS I believe the penalty runs were for twice taking too long to start an over.

Yeah, more attempted match manipulation from India. Both an offence and a disgrace!

I believe it was attempted before during previous tournaments but the powers that be turned a blind eye. Wink

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Post by Pal Joey Thu Jun 13, 2024 2:11 am

The Kiwis are ripping through the Windies. 32/5 after 7 overs. The crowd is a bit stunned.

edit:
I well and truly jinxed NZ, didn't I?
Wi went on to make 149/9, thanks to a quickfire 68 (39) from Rutherford, after being in dire straits at 77/7 at one stage.
NZ started off relatively well in their chase but then the wickets began to fall with Motie and Joseph doing most of the damage.
Phillips with a bit of a late flurry now... but probably too much to ask... with 50 runs needed off the final 3 overs.

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Post by eirebilly_01 Thu Jun 13, 2024 5:59 am

Its a big shame but that looks pretty much it for New Zealand.

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Post by KP_fan Thu Jun 13, 2024 7:48 am

Pal Joey wrote:The Kiwis are ripping through the Windies. 32/5 after 7 overs. The crowd is a bit stunned.

edit:
I well and truly jinxed NZ, didn't I?
Wi went on to make 149/9, thanks to a quickfire 68 (39) from Rutherford, after being in dire straits at 77/7 at one stage.
NZ started off relatively well in their chase but then the wickets began to fall with Motie and Joseph doing most of the damage.
Phillips with a bit of a late flurry now... but probably too much to ask... with 50 runs needed off the final 3 overs.

To me the biggest surprises has been the back to back losses & mediocre show of NZ
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Post by Duty281 Thu Jun 13, 2024 8:27 am

Tremendous fightback from the West Indies, Rutherford with perhaps the innings of the tournament thus far. 150 was still chaseable, but NZ's batting lacked any spark. Joseph with the headline figures this time. A champion's spirit from the West Indies.

Presuming Afghanistan beat PNG in the early hours of Friday, and that shouldn't be too strenuous, NZ are out. The group will then end with a dead rubber between WI and Afg for a meaningless 1st/2nd place.

Bangladesh v the Netherlands this afternoon. Both teams on two points so far. If Bangladesh win they'll almost certainly be through, because their final game is v Nepal; if the Dutch triumph they'll be in the box seat, albeit their final match is v SL, a tougher proposition, so their qualification wouldn't be secure with a win here. Though it would be a sizable step.

And, slightly later, England have to take down Oman to stay in the tournament. Need a big win, too, to begin undoing the NRR damage. Apparently England will be loading their team up with all of Archer, Wood and Topley, with Jordan making way, and Bairstow won't be dropped, despite looking finished.

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Post by Duty281 Thu Jun 13, 2024 3:49 pm

Netherlands winning the toss and bowling first in this crucial game. Bit of rain around, so has been a slight delay.

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Post by Duty281 Thu Jun 13, 2024 5:33 pm

A competitive 159/5. Shakib carrying the innings with a classy 64, but not much else in support. Bangladesh were 102/4 after 14, so perhaps some regret at not getting an explosive finish.

Set up for a good chase.

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Post by Duty281 Thu Jun 13, 2024 6:45 pm

Dutch were doing well in the chase, 49 off 33 with seven wickets left at one point, but two quick wickets on Nelson and it's all going south.

49 needed off the last five overs. Edwards and van Beek in the middle. We know van Beek can launch a few after his 30 run Super Over last year.


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Post by Duty281 Thu Jun 13, 2024 7:00 pm

And going to be a quite comfortable win for Bangladesh. A good T20 that went back and forth, but the Dutch couldn't recover from those two quick wickets which put them five down.

Means this group is 99% over. Bangladesh just need to beat Nepal, or have the game rained off, to get through with SA.  By this time tomorrow three of the four groups could have been practically decided, or even all four if England mess it up tonight!

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Post by Duty281 Thu Jun 13, 2024 7:35 pm

Interesting....England choosing to bowl first after winning the toss. Aside from the NRR dilemma, it looks a good wicket with small boundaries.

Topley has come in for Jordan.

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Post by KP_fan Thu Jun 13, 2024 7:53 pm

Bangladesh was just the better side & it looks like on WI pitches 150-160ish is about par.
Ned, Ire & Scot appear better 50 over sides.

Eng is bowling first, makes sense, bowl them out for sub-100 and chase it down in 5 to 6 overs
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Post by VTR Thu Jun 13, 2024 8:04 pm

Duty281 wrote:Interesting....England choosing to bowl first after winning the toss. Aside from the NRR dilemma, it looks a good wicket with small boundaries.

Topley has come in for Jordan.

Really need to do what Australia did against them. What will probably happen is we're about to unearth the Oman version of Shai Hope

Edit: crikey, it was actually Namibia that Australia thrashed. Like I said before, I'm not really following this tournament that closely

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Post by Duty281 Thu Jun 13, 2024 8:09 pm

VTR wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Interesting....England choosing to bowl first after winning the toss. Aside from the NRR dilemma, it looks a good wicket with small boundaries.

Topley has come in for Jordan.

Really need to do what Australia did against them. What will probably happen is we're about to unearth the Oman version of Shai Hope

Edit: crikey, it was actually Namibia that Australia thrashed. Like I said before, I'm not really following this tournament that closely

Or do what Scotland did. They chased down 151 v Oman in 13 overs.

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Post by KP_fan Thu Jun 13, 2024 8:25 pm

Oman don't like pace.....dig it in and push them back.....and push one in full.
Topley reminds me a bit of Bruce Reid.
Ali dropped a sitter.

This game would be far from competitive & of academic interest only.....how far can Eng recover their NRR
3 down for very Little
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Post by KP_fan Thu Jun 13, 2024 8:39 pm

Haven't see 1 Omani batsman try to get behind the line of the ball.
All 7 of them seen so far get away from the line & stay leg sidish of the ball
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Post by Duty281 Thu Jun 13, 2024 8:43 pm

This is a rout. Some of the Oman bats have looked quite wary of the pace of England's quicks.

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Post by GSC Thu Jun 13, 2024 8:51 pm

Australia about to call up Darren Pattinson for the Scotland game
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Post by Duty281 Thu Jun 13, 2024 9:06 pm

47 all out. Sheesh. Pretty much a perfect bowling performance.

Get this in five overs and England might exceed Scotland's NRR. In 5.2 overs or fewer to exceed Scotland's NRR, apparently.

Oman competed well against Australia and Namibia, nearly beating the latter, but they've run out of steam for these last two games.

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Post by VTR Thu Jun 13, 2024 9:20 pm

GSC wrote:Australia about to call up Darren Pattinson for the Scotland game

Ha, also Bryce McGain to be drafted in to replacd Adam Zampa

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