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2024 T20 World Cup

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JDizzle
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Post by Duty281 Wed 22 May 2024, 12:04 pm

First topic message reminder :

Just over a week away now from some glorious six-hitting in the cricketing heartlands of Barbados, Trinidad, Saint Lucia and, um, New York City.

England are defending the crown they won at the MCG in front of 80,000 people in November 2022. They'll probably be hoping it goes a bit better than their defence of the 50 over title! The tournament is, as T20 competitions are, very wide open. If England were to win it again they'd be the first men's team to win back to back World T20 titles in the history of the competition.

Chasing them keenly are the bookmakers favourites India, who are very, very thirsty because of a drought that has existed since 2013 in ICC tournaments. Australia will obviously be there or thereabouts, and there's plenty of excitement around the West Indies, twice winners of this competition, and how glorious it would be to see them lift a trophy at home.

Or perhaps South Africa will finally stop being Tottenham and actually win something? But it's T20. So it could be anyone. Ireland, Scotland, Uganda....USA?

I thought the format of the last couple of T20 World Cups was absolutely perfect. Naturally, then, the ICC have altered it for this year! So we've now got 20 teams, up from 16, and 55 matches in total, up from 45.

There's no preliminary round this time. All teams start off the same. Four groups of five teams. All play each other once. Top two in each group go through to the Super 8s. Super 8s is split into two groups of four. No points are carried over and all teams play each other once in the Super 8s. Top two in each Super 8 group go through to the semi-finals, from which it's a straight knockout. Means a team will play nine games if they are to lift the trophy, in comparison to England's seven games to win it in 2022.

One curious thing about the format, and the ICC love curious things (such as there being no reserve day for one semi-final), is that the finishing places in the initial group are seeded. For example, England are designated B1 in their group, and Australia are B2, which means that it's irrelevant if England come first or second. They will go through to Group 2 of the Super 8s regardless of finishing first or second. I suppose it guarantees certainty for fans, as they know where teams are playing after the initial group stage.

While I don't think it's been directly said, the draw was not a fair and open one. It took place behind closed doors and ensured India/Pakistan were in the same group, as well as some other long-standing rivalries, such as USA v Canada. I'm surprised the ICC didn't put India and Pakistan in the same Super 8 group as well! The groups are:

Groups:

The fixture list is all over the place with timings, so try and keep up! If you're in the UK, games can start at 01:30, or they might begin at 18:00, and quite a few matches seem to overlap in the early stages.

Fixture List (All times BST):

Squads (Not yet finalised):

Outright Odds (Bet365):

The USA and Canada will be starting this one off in Texas. That's the most unlikely cricket sentence ever uttered.

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Post by Duty281 Tue 04 Jun 2024, 6:57 pm

Restart in just over ten minutes. Going to be 10 overs a side, so Scotland have 22 balls to thrash something, then they'll get a DLS boost in the score to factor in their earlier mentality.

Also means England can't bowl Wood or Archer. Limited to Jordan and spin.

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Post by VTR Tue 04 Jun 2024, 7:00 pm

Oh dear, this has all the makings of another embarrassment!

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Post by Marky Tue 04 Jun 2024, 7:27 pm

Scotland finish 90/0.

If the rain holds off, England need 109 from 10 overs to win via DLS

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Post by Duty281 Tue 04 Jun 2024, 7:28 pm

90/0 after that ten...England still couldn't get a wicket! But not a bad last over from Rashid.

109 for England to get? But covers being dragged on again.

Probably going to be abandoned, barely any time left before the cut off.

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Post by Duty281 Tue 04 Jun 2024, 7:47 pm

Yep, game abandoned. England still can't beat European teams at T20 World Cups!

Bit more pressure on England's next game against Australia now.

Netherlands cruising against Nepal in the other match.

India/Ireland tomorrow in NYC, on what could be another tricky batting pitch.

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Post by eirebilly_01 Tue 04 Jun 2024, 7:47 pm

Savage for Scotland, almost a certain win taken away by weather.

England will persist with Jordan but in all honesty (as good as he has been in the past) he is well past it.

Great time to schedule a CWC during the rain season...

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Post by Duty281 Tue 04 Jun 2024, 7:49 pm

Would have still favoured England in the chase, to be honest. Such tiny boundaries at this ground, one of the sixes was just 61m, and England have brutal hitters.

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Post by Marky Tue 04 Jun 2024, 7:51 pm

eirebilly_01 wrote:Savage for Scotland, almost a certain win taken away by weather.

They had a great chance, but to call it "almost a certain win" with England's strong batting lineup and short boundaries is just untrue.

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Post by eirebilly_01 Tue 04 Jun 2024, 7:53 pm

Marky wrote:
eirebilly_01 wrote:Savage for Scotland, almost a certain win taken away by weather.

They had a great chance, but to call it "almost a certain win" with England's strong batting lineup and short boundaries is just untrue.

Not on this track with the weather its not... Scotland have a very good bowling attack and an England victory was surely not possible given what would be required under DLS

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Post by king_carlos Tue 04 Jun 2024, 7:57 pm

Miles from a certain win there. I live in Scotland, watch a lot of their cricket, know a few Scotland players and coaches. Very much my second team. They're an interesting side but not really a bowling attack setup for a shortened game. Watt being able to bowl in all three phases is massive for them, being limited to 2 overs is huge. Their medium pacers in Berrington and McMullen usually add useful depth but that isn't a form of bowling suited to a shortened game. Leask is a really smart cricketer, but an offie to an all RHB top 5 with England's power isn't ideal. Greaves is a part time leggie that I could see them licking their lips at. There would've been a lot of pressure on the three seamers getting two overs in each against a very powerful batting lineup.

I'd have expected England to chase 11 RPO in a shortened game given their power and depth.

I'm on a WhatsApp chat with my old Edinburgh club side, general feeling there is that England were narrow favourites after Jordan and Dilly just pulled it back in the final 2 overs.

As an aside, this is a morning game in Bridgetown. It feels silly that it's being called before 3pm local time. Ho hum.

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Post by VTR Tue 04 Jun 2024, 9:03 pm

Yeah, probably best to say a good and maybe unexpected chance of a win, but far from definite. 11 runs per over with all wickets in hand would not overly worry most T20 teams

Anyway, I'm off to the PNG vs Uganda thread now to make my prediction and put a few quid on it

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Post by guildfordbat Tue 04 Jun 2024, 10:12 pm

VTR wrote:Yeah, probably best to say a good and maybe unexpected chance of a win, but far from definite. 11 runs per over with all wickets in hand would not overly worry most T20 teams

Anyway, I'm off to the PNG vs Uganda thread now to make my prediction and put a few quid on it

Yeah again. England went at more than 10 an over five days ago at a bigger Oval ground to comfortably beat Pakistan by 7 wickets with four and a half overs to spare. That doesn't mean England would have done very similar today and won but it certainly shows it would have been possible and, were I to be a betting man, that's on whom my money would have been.

Btw, my instinct / gut feel / whatever you want to call it was that DLS favoured England in upping their target by only 18 runs. I expected more.

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Post by alfie Wed 05 Jun 2024, 4:38 am

Glad I didn't bother setting an alarm for that ! "Rain saves England " , eh Smile

OK they probably (probably !) would have chased it down. But is all hypothetical now ; and whatever else is said , going for 90 off 10 with no wickets is hardly the start they'd have wanted from the bowling group (weather obviously a big mitigating factor ; but still...)

Speaking of weather : seems to be a bit of rain around one or two places . Bit early to fuss too much about possibilities ; but if there were more washouts costing the seeded teams , the loser of England /Australia might be in a spot of trouble...Hopefully the rest of the group stage gets better conditions for cricket. With this making three of the last five England white ball games lost to the rain gods , they're surely due some dry days !

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Post by eirebilly_01 Wed 05 Jun 2024, 6:25 am

Why I say that Scotland were favourites is because :

1/ England would only have had 3 overs of the PP
2/ Scotland's bowlers are not as bad as people think
3/ The ground was would have been wet making the ball wet
4/ The pitch was very uneven

To get 109 in 60 in those conditions would have been extremely hard for any side, not just England.
As I said above, the continual picking of Jordan astounds me. Once a great player and incredible asset to England but is no longer up to this standard, it happens to every player. The decision to bowl him in the 6th over was poor for me.
I still believe that this is a very unbalanced squad.

Anyways, on to the mighty Ireland today to cause a major upset against India thumbsup

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Wed 05 Jun 2024, 8:36 am

Duty281 wrote:Would have still favoured England in the chase, to be honest. Such tiny boundaries at this ground, one of the sixes was just 61m, and England have brutal hitters.

A mishit for those guys these days - annoying as an England fan to have a win washed out against a minnow, puts us on the back foot now.

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Post by Duty281 Wed 05 Jun 2024, 8:37 am

England were big favourites. That top five, plus Moeen/LL/Jordan/Wood (if necessary), to get under 11 an over for 10 overs on a tiny ground wouldn't have been much of an obstacle. Scotland's bowling attack isn't bad, but it's quite a few levels below the best teams, and the ball being wet would have made it harder to grip. Obviously, Scotland weren't completely out of it either, but England would have been confident.

I'm not a fan of DLS in either 20 or 50 over cricket, but especially not 20 over cricket. I'd do away with DLS entirely in both formats and if a game gets rained off then it gets rained off, though perhaps more reserve days could be factored in e.g. why can't England and Scotland try and complete the game today?

I'm fine with Jordan's selection. He had a very good franchise winter, though should be remembered he's likely in the squad because Overton is injured and Woakes is on bereavement leave (this is why he missed the IPL and county season thus far). Concerns about his bowling, particularly at the end? Yes. But he can still do a job.

The one selection that does confuse me is Hartley as the reserve spinner. I don't know what's up with that.

Alfie says 'the loser of England /Australia might be in a spot of trouble', indeed. If England lose that one and beat Namibia + Oman, and Scotland do likewise (which is a very plausible set of results), then England/Scotland's place in the Super Eight will be decided by NRR.

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Post by wisden Wed 05 Jun 2024, 8:48 am

Got a horrible feeling that N/R is going to bite us on the arse....i dont think we were favourties to chase that down,...no matter how strong the batting line up is nearly 11 an over isn't an easy chase..we were poor and looked rusty and need to improve quickly...

Hard to see anything other than a comfortble India victory today

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Post by eirebilly_01 Wed 05 Jun 2024, 9:29 am

The only hope I hold out for today is that India underestimate Ireland and take it easy (not going to happen).

That said, Ireland have to ability to cause an upset.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Wed 05 Jun 2024, 9:50 am

Duty281 wrote:England were big favourites. That top five, plus Moeen/LL/Jordan/Wood (if necessary), to get under 11 an over for 10 overs on a tiny ground wouldn't have been much of an obstacle. Scotland's bowling attack isn't bad, but it's quite a few levels below the best teams, and the ball being wet would have made it harder to grip. Obviously, Scotland weren't completely out of it either, but England would have been confident.

I'm not a fan of DLS in either 20 or 50 over cricket, but especially not 20 over cricket. I'd do away with DLS entirely in both formats and if a game gets rained off then it gets rained off, though perhaps more reserve days could be factored in e.g. why can't England and Scotland try and complete the game today?

I'm fine with Jordan's selection. He had a very good franchise winter, though should be remembered he's likely in the squad because Overton is injured and Woakes is on bereavement leave (this is why he missed the IPL and county season thus far). Concerns about his bowling, particularly at the end? Yes. But he can still do a job.

The one selection that does confuse me is Hartley as the reserve spinner. I don't know what's up with that.

Alfie says 'the loser of England /Australia might be in a spot of trouble', indeed. If England lose that one and beat Namibia + Oman, and Scotland do likewise (which is a very plausible set of results), then England/Scotland's place in the Super Eight will be decided by NRR.

Only get reserve days if it's gonna effect India's chances of winning Duty, cmon now... Whistle censored

A real shame re: Overton's injury, he's become quite a good T20 player. Agree on Jordan, considering injuries he's fine in the side. Offers a lot in the field and down the order with the bat, and can be fine with the ball. Oft forgotten he was drafted into the XI for the Semi Final and Final at the last minute in our tournament victory, and did a sterling job (his semi final figures not reflective of his work, got Sharma/Kohli in his first spell which was key).

I think I would consider Topley for Wood in future games...I'd like to see a specialist new ball bowler and think we miss that left arm option. Also think in these conditions Wood's extra pace might be a hinderance, especially with short straight boundaries (he doesn't really have a slower ball like Archer does).
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Post by Duty281 Wed 05 Jun 2024, 11:04 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
Duty281 wrote:England were big favourites. That top five, plus Moeen/LL/Jordan/Wood (if necessary), to get under 11 an over for 10 overs on a tiny ground wouldn't have been much of an obstacle. Scotland's bowling attack isn't bad, but it's quite a few levels below the best teams, and the ball being wet would have made it harder to grip. Obviously, Scotland weren't completely out of it either, but England would have been confident.

I'm not a fan of DLS in either 20 or 50 over cricket, but especially not 20 over cricket. I'd do away with DLS entirely in both formats and if a game gets rained off then it gets rained off, though perhaps more reserve days could be factored in e.g. why can't England and Scotland try and complete the game today?

I'm fine with Jordan's selection. He had a very good franchise winter, though should be remembered he's likely in the squad because Overton is injured and Woakes is on bereavement leave (this is why he missed the IPL and county season thus far). Concerns about his bowling, particularly at the end? Yes. But he can still do a job.

The one selection that does confuse me is Hartley as the reserve spinner. I don't know what's up with that.

Alfie says 'the loser of England /Australia might be in a spot of trouble', indeed. If England lose that one and beat Namibia + Oman, and Scotland do likewise (which is a very plausible set of results), then England/Scotland's place in the Super Eight will be decided by NRR.

Only get reserve days if it's gonna effect India's chances of winning Duty, cmon now... Whistle censored

A real shame re: Overton's injury, he's become quite a good T20 player. Agree on Jordan, considering injuries he's fine in the side. Offers a lot in the field and down the order with the bat, and can be fine with the ball. Oft forgotten he was drafted into the XI for the Semi Final and Final at the last minute in our tournament victory, and did a sterling job (his semi final figures not reflective of his work, got Sharma/Kohli in his first spell which was key).

I think I would consider Topley for Wood in future games...I'd like to see a specialist new ball bowler and think we miss that left arm option. Also think in these conditions Wood's extra pace might be a hinderance, especially with short straight boundaries (he doesn't really have a slower ball like Archer does).

Very true. Remember India/Bangladesh from the last T20 World Cup? Rain forced them off, Bangladesh were well ahead on DLS at the time, then the umpires got the players out way too soon, and Bangladesh lost Litton Das, who was doing superbly (60 off 27), after he slipped over on the wet ground and was run out. India went on to win.

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Post by VTR Wed 05 Jun 2024, 11:21 am

Well I for one am looking forward to analysing the NRR permutations when Scotland play Oman, this is what these tournaments are all about!

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Post by Duty281 Wed 05 Jun 2024, 3:28 pm

India, unsurprisingly, bowling first after winning the toss against Ireland. This is a different pitch, same ground, to the one used for the low scoring SL/SA game a few days ago, so there should be greater opportunity for run scoring.

India's team looking really stacked. Ireland's team looking much the same as it often does.

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Post by eirebilly_01 Wed 05 Jun 2024, 3:41 pm

Oh dear, Stirling gone already. Not a great start.

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Post by eirebilly_01 Wed 05 Jun 2024, 3:46 pm

At this rate, Ireland will be lucky to get past 80...

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Post by Duty281 Wed 05 Jun 2024, 4:21 pm

Yeah, this is rough for Ireland, 46/6.

The ball was doing lots early, but the Irish kept trying to slog every ball, which was a mad approach. Curious to see Bumrah held back until the 6th over.

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Post by eirebilly_01 Wed 05 Jun 2024, 4:22 pm

India are bowling well but my goodness, Ireland's batting is shocking to say the least.

Maybe 60 is the best they can hope for...

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Post by eirebilly_01 Wed 05 Jun 2024, 4:44 pm

Seems to be all about getting past 77 right now Very Happy

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Post by eirebilly_01 Wed 05 Jun 2024, 4:57 pm

Poor Delaney, that was a stupid run out.
Still, Ireland got to 97 so not the lowest score in the tournament thumbsup

Little to get 5 for 7 in two overs to put India under severe pressure?

India will get this by 12 overs in reality.

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Post by Duty281 Wed 05 Jun 2024, 5:07 pm

I was worried about the tournament being bat dominated, especially after the first game, but these games in the USA are really swinging it in the bowlers favour...amusingly, perhaps a bit too much!

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Post by Duty281 Wed 05 Jun 2024, 6:20 pm

Comfortable for India. The tournament not really sparked into life yet.

PNG v Uganda and Australia v Oman in the small hours.

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Post by VTR Wed 05 Jun 2024, 6:33 pm

Not sparked into life is being generous, absolutely dire so far, probably making the US audience less interested. Time to see if Diana Ross fancies bowling a leg break at a giant set of stumps

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Wed 05 Jun 2024, 9:59 pm

ICC - we want to hold some games in the US to try and break into the market

Also ICC - holds games in New York at 10:30am on a weekday to cater for Indian TV, whilst putting it behind a paywall channel nobody watches in the US

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Post by Duty281 Wed 05 Jun 2024, 10:49 pm

And also ICC - let's have pitches which minimise run scoring, because the Americans definitely don't want to see lots of home runs sixes.

Let's face it, the ICC couldn't organise a prayer in a mosque. On a Friday. During Ramadan.

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Post by guildfordbat Wed 05 Jun 2024, 11:32 pm

Duty281 wrote:Comfortable for India. The tournament not really sparked into life yet.

...

The contrast between how comfortably India disposed of Ireland and how uncomfortably England struggled against Scotland was all too noticeable.

I'm not telling Buttler to pack the cases but I'm not telling him to order the champagne either.

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Post by eirebilly_01 Thu 06 Jun 2024, 8:24 am

I was very disappointed with Ireland if I may be honest, sure India bowled well and the track was a bit iffy but they really threw a lot of wickets away and that annoyed me as I know they are better than that. The loss was absolutely expected but not in that fashion.

I do worry for England though, as stated previously, I do not see them as a very balanced side and have never been convinced with Buttler as captain. I just do not feel he makes good on field decisions, especially when under pressure.

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Post by Duty281 Thu 06 Jun 2024, 9:04 am

Uganda beat PNG, in another low scorer. I was thinking about putting a bet on Uganda, because they were 5/2 which seemed quite big for a team that had beaten Zimbabwe en route, but I didn't because I didn't feel I knew enough. Which goes to show, he who dares wins, he who hesitates...don't.

PNG were bowled out for 77, though Uganda didn't look like they were chasing it at 6/3 and 26/5, before Riazat Ali Shah steered them home with 33, the only person to score above 15 in the game.

And Australia beat Oman, though perhaps not as convincingly as they would have liked. Australia made 164/5, a very steady 50 from Warner and a much more aggressive one from Stoinis, and Oman fell 39 runs short, although they weren't bowled out, to their credit.

USA v Pakistan at 16:30 today, followed by Namibia/Scotland at 20:00, which I think is a new start time as this tournament tries to catch us out.

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Post by VTR Thu 06 Jun 2024, 10:58 am

India apparently not happy with the New York pitch and have complained to the ICC. Following this for comedy purposes to see if the pressure makes the ICC cave and maybe decide that Mumbai is a suitable neutral venue for the rest of their matches

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Post by Duty281 Thu 06 Jun 2024, 12:11 pm

It sounds like it's getting very messy with the New York games. Apparently the ICC have said there's no plans to move games out of New York...which obviously means they're talking about it!

The showpiece India v Pakistan game is in New York on Sunday. There's no way it can be moved with 30,000 + expected at the ground. There are five other games scheduled to be played in New York. Once the tournament gets to the Super Eights, there are no further games in the USA.

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Post by king_carlos Thu 06 Jun 2024, 3:13 pm

Worth noting with the 'pitch' that there are actually 10 drop in pitches in New York. Grown in Adelaide by Damien Hough, who is regarded as playing an instrumental role in sorting Australia's drop in pitch issues when Aussie rules became the dominant financial partner in their big grounds. The India vs Bangladesh warmup was on one of these wickets and saw India make 180 in the first innings. So there must be better tracks than the ones we've seen so far.

The outfield is arguably a bigger issue though. That can't be changed, not only does it look dangerous for fielders, it's also stopping the ball dead, making it absurdly difficult to hit 4s along the ground.

The USA leg should've just been played in Dallas at Grand Prairie.

I am looking forward to watching Virat's running between the wickets on that New York outfield though. He is insanely good at turning dots in singles, 1s into 2s, etc. On a ground where that could be match defining, I'm hoping he goes nuclear with trying to score without hitting boundaries.

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Post by Duty281 Thu 06 Jun 2024, 4:05 pm

USA bowling first after winning the toss. Can they catch out an unprepared Pakistan and score an astonishing upset?

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Post by Duty281 Thu 06 Jun 2024, 5:04 pm

Interesting...Pakistan 30/3 after the PowerPlay. Shadab and Babar looking to rebuild.

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Post by Duty281 Thu 06 Jun 2024, 6:19 pm

USA work hard and limit Pakistan to 159. Looked like it was going to be more after Shadab and Babar's strong partnership, but the USA fought back well, before a couple of late sixes from Shaheen got Pakistan to 159. Azam Khan got a first ball duck, which really won't help his cause!

Some very good death bowling from Ali Khan and overall from Netravalkar. USA's fielding was initially impressive, but there were a few lapses as the innings wore on.

USA not out of it, but chasing this v Shaheen, Rauf, Naseem and Amir is a hell of an ask.

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Post by king_carlos Thu 06 Jun 2024, 6:25 pm

It's a very good Pakistan attack but they're in with a chance.

I'm a big fan of Shaheen turning himself into a lower order 6 hitter. A lot of fun.

That must've been such a special day for Ali Khan. Bowling so well to his birth country, whilst representing the country he's lived in for 15 years. Great stuff.

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Post by Duty281 Thu 06 Jun 2024, 7:02 pm

44/1 after the PowerPlay. This is interesting. Naseem bowling well and getting the wicket, but Amir has had a dreadful two overs.

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Post by Duty281 Thu 06 Jun 2024, 7:21 pm

76/1 after 10. Gous and Monank doing the job comfortably. Pakistan desperately need some wickets or this one is getting away from them.

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Post by Duty281 Thu 06 Jun 2024, 7:32 pm

Bizarre from Pakistan. USA 84/1 after 11, they need to bring in their main strike bowler to get a wicket...instead they bowl sixth choice Iftikhar, an off spinner v two right handers, and concede a further 10 runs.

94/1 after 12.

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Post by VTR Thu 06 Jun 2024, 7:39 pm

Blimey, the Pakistan bowling attack must have had a few quid on a shock result!

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Post by Duty281 Thu 06 Jun 2024, 7:42 pm

Haris Rauf gets a wicket and Pakistan are still hanging in with a shout. USA 56 away.

Namibia batting first against Scotland after winning the toss. Important game in England's group that one.

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Post by Duty281 Thu 06 Jun 2024, 8:11 pm

USA have been strangled since the end of the 16th over, despite only being three down.

15 needed off the last, with Haris Rauf to bowl it.

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Post by Duty281 Thu 06 Jun 2024, 8:17 pm

12 from 3...then a six, single and four!

It's going to the second super over of the tournament. Already!

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