How many beatings will Jones and Holy be allowed to take??

It's all getting a bit silly now.....Doesn't anybody love these guys enough to tell them it's over????

The year is 2011..the time for greek tragedies has past!!!

time for tough love and responsible athletic commissions to help these addicts move on...

I think they have already encountered problems getting decent money making fights in the USA, hence while both of them are embarking on what appears to be some sort of senior tours abroad.

I doubt that either of them will feature again in any major venue back home but as the rest of the world did not get to see them in their heyday, they are getting superstar treatment abroad (especially in boxing outback nations) even though both have nothing left and in Jones' case getting violently KO'd and battered by very ordinary opposition.

Jones doesn't really need the money though does he? I mean, he has a nice little number working with HBO as one of their analysts, invested his cash well and never been in trouble with the law?

Jones may not need the money like Holyfield but as he is well aware that he does not have a lot left and would only get derisory money offers to fight back home and risk getting KO'd. So from business point of view, he would fight in the middle of no where and get a far better financial reward no matter the outcome. Let's be honest, in his prime Jones never ventured out the USA, but now he has been humiliated in Australia by a very limited opponent in Danny Green; and last month a very brutal loss in Moscow by an opponent he would have toyed with in his prime as was competitive until the brutal finish.

Boxing is like a drug to these guys..they don't know how to cope without it..

gives them a sense of purpose they can't find elsewhere.

Holyfield must be on other drugs if he hears the voice of God all the time though?

The truth is, he has about 20 kids to feed by different mothers... VERY Christian of him to continue! He'll probably die in the ring, but at least he'll do it for his own sins :P

i'm not interested in what happens to them, or how many more punches they take. I've been saying for 8 years Holyfield needs to retire, Jones is just trying to get money and rip off the fans imo. The writing was on the wall for Holyfield when he got battered by a fat James Toney, who proper heavyweights like Lewis, Klitschko would destroy

How about if they were given a short term licence, for example for no more than five fights? After the fifth fight their results are considered, and a new licence decided upon. Sure, some guys would pick easy fights to ensure a win, but at least that would put them at less risk than going up against bigger guys like Jones has been doing.

How about if they were given a short term licence, for example for no more than five fights? After the fifth fight their results are considered, and a new licence decided upon. Sure, some guys would pick easy fights to ensure a win, but at least that would put them at less risk than going up against bigger guys like Jones has been doing.
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Nah, i wouldn't give them any more chances, they are finished, absolutely shot to bits. Jones got obliterated in a round by a bum in Green, and battered by Lebedev, Holyfield was stopped 8 year ago by an obese Toney, time for the retirement home. Lets be realistic as well, one more shot and these could end up vegetables.

why bring religion into things....

Not a muslim, christian, Hindu, sikh, Man City player... who hasn't sinned..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Boxing is like a drug to these guys..they don't know how to cope without it..

gives them a sense of purpose they can't find elsewhere.

Agreed again. I hope I'm not making a habit of this...

Boxing is their life. Holyfield, Jones - they've been boxing all their lives. Jones especially was boxing as soon as he could walk. Learnt his skills by beating up bigger kids in sparring. What else was there for him? University? School? Just boxing and family. Hopefully they both decide to focus on the latter, less the former.

Have to realise that when you've had a bad day you sometimes need to be comforted by your security valves...

If you have a job you hate....your family...

If you have relationship troubles and a job you love .....your job.

Boxing is a security valve like drink or drugs is to others.....It stops them having to

a) deal with life or
b) Take their mind off their problems..........

It's not simple to stop for an addict.....

Need tough love....

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:why bring religion into things....

Not a muslim, christian, Hindu, sikh, Man City player... who hasn't sinned..

Because Holyfield is clearly hiding the fact he needs money to pay for his love-children, by saying it's Gods work that he's still fighting. Very relevent to the discussion.

Young_Towzer wrote:How about if they were given a short term licence, for example for no more than five fights? After the fifth fight their results are considered, and a new licence decided upon. Sure, some guys would pick easy fights to ensure a win, but at least that would put them at less risk than going up against bigger guys like Jones has been doing.
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Nah, i wouldn't give them any more chances, they are finished, absolutely shot to bits. Jones got obliterated in a round by a bum in Green, and battered by Lebedev, Holyfield was stopped 8 year ago by an obese Toney, time for the retirement home. Lets be realistic as well, one more shot and these could end up vegetables.

It's not a case of whether or not any one of us would give them any more chances. That's a moot point because as individuals WE don't have ANY say in whether or not they continue to fight. The problem is that if they're prevented from fighting they can potentially sue for lost earnings. It's a tough call because if a fighter is passing the medical tests why should he have his licence revoked simply because he's losing, regardless of the manner of the losses?

You say 'one more shot' but in theory it could take only 'one more shot' for Pacquiao or Mayweather or ANY boxer to end up as a vegetable. Do we revoke their licences too based on that?

Holy thinks everything in life is fate!!!

Maybe he's deluded..maybe not but don't knock someone with deep religious beliefs....

Not a 100% pure religious guy in the World......

we all sin....I'm sure Holy is the first to agree.

licences should be on a one fight basis not five......

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:licences should be on a one fight basis not five......

You get what I mean though Truss, right? Give a guy an ultimatum, so he has to consider what's best for his career rather than just ploughing on with fights that are unrealistic. I think a one fight licence is too short though because a guy can turn his career around after a single loss.

Not sure ultimatums work when you are deeply addictive...

I lost my sister years ago to alcohol....she was told she was killing herself often enough....

Sure Husbands and wives tell eachother daily across the World that if you don't stop drinking etc I'll leave...

.... and they'll end up splitting up..

Hard to help people who can't help themselves balti

Some people just can't see the bigger picture.

I understand your point mate and I'm sorry to hear about your own experiences. I think though that the one difference between boxers and drug/alcohol type addictions is that the latter types of addiction don't require state governed legitimate authorisation to continue, whereas if Jones or Holy had their licences removed they'd have no way to fight legally, and I can't see either man continuing to fight in cellars and basements, fight club style.

Think is there are so many state regulators in the US that you'll always find a small state trying to attract business by welcoming a Holy, Jones type...Remember when Pryor was half blind...

In essence what you say is true but in practice it doesn't work..

Like referees/prison guards you always get one soft one

I suppose there's that, but it would still go some way toward restricting their earning potential and therefore much of their motivation to fight. If a fight can only be made in some remote location where the gate revenue will be minimal I imagine there'd be less of an incentive to continue.

Thing is everybody in my country even for the most menial of positions is ELECTED...The fact is that should a Holy fight turn up anywhere the local sheriff, local councilmen, district attorney's office and god knows who else will be trying to ride the dovetails by getting in on the act for votes........

Bringing money into the local authority..etc. providing work etc..

Politics and money..

If that's the case then the issue needs to be decided by a national body, rather than a regional one. In the same way that football has FIFA (not the best example, I know), boxing needs some kind of single umbrella body to make the tough calls.

You say 'one more shot' but in theory it could take only 'one more shot' for Pacquiao or Mayweather or ANY boxer to end up as a vegetable. Do we revoke their licences too based on that?
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Nah that's bull, of course any boxer could, but Pac Man and Mayweather dish beatings out, not receive them, they are in the form of their lives, in Mayweather's case when he fights that is!, but he is still bang on form. When you get destroyed by an obese middleweight at heavy you turn it in imo. And when a roadsweeper from Australia who got schooled by a bum in Mundine obliterates you, then again, it's time to turn it in. Baltimora, do you seriously believe we should have any sympathy for any of these guys when they are never, ever gonna win another meaningful fight? because i certainly don't. Holyfeld has to feed his kids? he must be a huge, huge gambler then, because i believe he has made well over $150 million. In my opinion, he uses feeding kids, etc has an excuse. Just turn it in boring old man, or take more severe beatings then hear someone say, ohh well someone shoulda told him to stop. No sympathy from me, the writing's been on the wall for 8 year.

Jones owes 3.5 million in tax. Think he got only 500k for the last fight so at that rate its 6 more beatings for him.

Holyfield has so many kids and squandered so much money on divorces and failed businesses that he can never retire.

Towzer, have you heard of James Braddock?

Jones owes 3.5 million in tax. Think he got only 500k for the last fight so at that rate its 6 more beatings for him.
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haha and you don't think RJJ has more than 500k? he will have well over $5 million dollors, he got well over $15 million for the Calzaghe, Trinidad fights

Towzer, have you heard of James Braddock?
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listen, we all encounter money problems, they have enough money, property, etc not to carry on, as put there RJJ got well over $15 million for Calzaghe, Trinidad

I'll take that as a 'no'. End of. FACT. Etc.

Young_Towzer wrote:Jones owes 3.5 million in tax. Think he got only 500k for the last fight so at that rate its 6 more beatings for him.
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haha and you don't think RJJ has more than 500k? he will have well over $5 million dollors, he got well over $15 million for the Calzaghe, Trinidad fights

How do you know what he did with his money or where it went? Are you his accountant or privvy to his finances?

How do you know what he did with his money or where it went? Are you his accountant or privvy to his finances?
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No, im a boxing fan who is sick of these has beens getting air time to walk into the ring needing a walking stick and getting beat downs off bums like Green, Lebedev. If he makes well over $100 mill and blows it, so what that's his problem, any normal guy would be set for life, retire him, retire him quick.

I'll take that as a 'no'. End of. FACT. Etc.
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Take it as what you want, these two have had well over $300 million between them, if they've blew that now, so what, i couldn't give a damn to be honest, the only thing i care about is not watching them fight. End of.

I do agree with Towzer on this one. Plenty of people amass vast fortunes and manage not to squander them. Hard to feel sorry for Jones and Holy on that front, although I do think they should seriously reconsider their continued ring ventures.

What I was referring to was the fact that Braddock had a career which many thought had run it's course BEFORE he underwent a renaissance of sorts and became heavyweight champ. It's the sort of scenario which I fear Jones and particularly Holyfield have in the back of their minds.

Young_Towzer wrote:How do you know what he did with his money or where it went? Are you his accountant or privvy to his finances?
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No, im a boxing fan who is sick of these has beens getting air time to walk into the ring needing a walking stick and getting beat downs off bums like Green, Lebedev. If he makes well over $100 mill and blows it, so what that's his problem, any normal guy would be set for life, retire him, retire him quick.

Well nobodys forcing you to pay to watch him. I am merely offering an explanation as to why he is still fighting. He may need the money, rather than enjoying getting beaten or kidding himself that hes still at the top.

If people pay to see him I would suggest they are the ones the to blame.

Well nobodys forcing you to pay to watch him. I am merely offering an explanation as to why he is still fighting. He may need the money, rather than enjoying getting beaten or kidding himself that hes still at the top.

If people pay to see him I would suggest they are the ones the to blame.
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I think Holyfield is guilty of kidding himself though, he wants to be world champ again, apparently, laughable and baffling. The Klitschkos or Haye would murder him.

A lot of intelligent people gave millions to Bernie Madoff became bankrupt and some killed themselves..

Do I feel sorry for them ..yes I do...

Holy and Jones have squandered money but there a lot of scumbags who are there to fleece these people..

Not all BLACK and WHITE fellas..

Valid point but as before when this came up Truss I'm gonna have to beg to differ. They've had more money than you or I will see in a lifetime, what they did with it was their choice. Sure there are exceptional cases like Madoff, Maxwell, and so on, but there are a hell of a lot more people who HAVE kept their cash without squandering it on divorce cases, legal settlements and a million other instances of extravagant living, hangers-on and bad money management.

If someone's gonna vie to become a top boxer they should get themselves a good lawyer, a good manager and a good accountant.

I think the issue with Jones fighting on is money and money only. I remember watching an interview with him in the late 90's when he more or less stated that he was building up enough bank in order to lead a comfortable life late on. You just didn't get the impression that he loved the sport in the same way as Holyfield did/does.

It's sad seeing Jones getting bashed up. It's even sadder expecting him to get bashed up.

And if, god forbid, he gets seriously hurt ala McClellan then is he or the powers that be accountable?

Freekshow-god forbid that should happen, but I think Jones himself would have to be accountable. He can't be oblivious to the calls from fans and analysts to hang up his gloves, and while I don't know his financial situation, the onus ultimately is on him as an adult to take responsibility for his actions.

BALTIMORA wrote:Freekshow-god forbid that should happen, but I think Jones himself would have to be accountable. He can't be oblivious to the calls from fans and analysts to hang up his gloves, and while I don't know his financial situation, the onus ultimately is on him as an adult to take responsibility for his actions.

You'll know this BALTI. Is there not some sort of Fifa type governing body able to make the decision for Jones? I have always wondered.

School Project wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:why bring religion into things....

Not a muslim, christian, Hindu, sikh, Man City player... who hasn't sinned..

Because Holyfield is clearly hiding the fact he needs money to pay for his love-children, by saying it's Gods work that he's still fighting. Very relevent to the discussion.

Child.

You'll know this BALTI. Is there not some sort of Fifa type governing body able to make the decision for Jones? I have always wondered.
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What, offer someone money to vote for him not to fight. Theifa aren't wanted in Boxing, it's bad enough with other Sepp Blatter characters like Don King

Think we should remember that the pair of them made a living getting punched for our entertainment so we owe them a bit more respect than to simply disregard them once we've got our kick watching them.

Young_Towzer wrote:You'll know this BALTI. Is there not some sort of Fifa type governing body able to make the decision for Jones? I have always wondered.
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What, offer someone money to vote for him not to fight. Theifa aren't wanted in Boxing, it's bad enough with other Sepp Blatter characters like Don King

Maybe take his licence away for his own well being? It's not that difficult to work out. Where did I suggest throwing money at him not to fight?

Maybe take his licence away for his own well being? It's not that difficult to work out. Where did I suggest throwing money at him not to fight?
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You mentioned THEIFA, the most corrupt organization on the planet imo

Young_Towzer wrote:Maybe take his licence away for his own well being? It's not that difficult to work out. Where did I suggest throwing money at him not to fight?
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You mentioned THEIFA, the most corrupt organization on the planet imo

I used them as an example. A universal body with an overall absolute power in their respective sport. The most corrupt organisation on the planet? I take it you work in business then?

Freekshow, as far as I'm aware Holyfield DID have his licence revoked or restricted in some fashion, but I think it's down to individual locations, and where belts are concerned it depends on whether they'll sanction a fight. I think Botha recently was also prevented from taking part in a fight. Whatever the case with Holyfield he either wasn't banned everywhere (which is remarkably tough to do without a single governing body) or has since had his licence reinstated.

Other examples would be Valero and Margarito. Valero was banned from fighting in most of the U.S. because of a head injury sustained in a motorcycle accident. Far as I know he simply fought in other countries in order to circumvent the restrictions. Margarito is a little different in that he was banned through wrongdoing, not medical grounds, but he was denied reinstatement of his licence in California (I think), but was granted a licence in Texas. This is POSSIBLY due to his promoter having strong ties with important figures there.

As Truss said earlier: money most certainly talks.

As for offering money not to fight; that's just nonsense talk. What we're talking about is when an authority should be able to step in and prevent further health risk to a fighter when that person seems likely to be headed for permanent and serious health problems due to boxing.

I used them as an example. A universal body with an overall absolute power in their respective sport. The most corrupt organisation on the planet? I take it you work in business then?
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No, i have a brain though, and when quatar who cant play football, and you won't be able to drink, ie the fans there at a major tournament, get picked over the USA, who can play football and have a normal rules for fans, i think that;s corrupt. They bought the world cup as well, that's ermmmm corrupt to me. Back to the boxing though, i agree someone should stop them, don't need fifa though, lets keep the sport clean from fat idiots who've never played the game but run it, ie warner, blatter, etc.

BALTIMORA wrote:Freekshow, as far as I'm aware Holyfield DID have his licence revoked or restricted in some fashion, but I think it's down to individual locations, and where belts are concerned it depends on whether they'll sanction a fight. I think Botha recently was prevented from taking part in a fight.

Other examples would be Valero and Margarito. Valero was banned from fighting in most of the U.S. because of a head injury sustained in a motorcycle accident. Far as I know he simply fought in other countries in order to circumvent the restrictions. Margarito is a little different in that he was banned through wrongdoing, not medical grounds, but he was denied reinstatement of his licence in California (I think), but was granted a licence in Texas. This is POSSIBLY due to his promoter having strong ties with important figures there.

As Truss said earlier: money most certainly talks.

As for offering money not to fight; that's just nonsense talk. What we're talking about is when an authority should be able to step in and prevent further health risk to a fighter when that person seems likely to be headed for permanent and serious health problems due to boxing.

Thank you. A sensible answer.