Why Do UK Fighters Not Move Up The Weights?

I was listining to the radio in the car this lunchtime and Duke McKensie was on Talk Sport, discussing his career and the usual whats he up to now stuff and it got me thinking, why are UK fighters so reluctant to move up the weight categories?

Duke there in the late 80s early 90s picked up the IBF flyweight, WBO, bantamweight and WBO Super Bantamweight Straps, along the way he also picked up the British featherweight title and fought for the WBO featherweight title too. So 3 world titles in 3 weights plus British title at a 4th, not bad.

Unfortunately other UK fighters are incredibley reluctant to move through the weights and at best will only try for a second weight class. Take Chris Eubank, one of my all time favourites, beat Benn for WBO middleweight title in 1990 and moved up to super middle less than a year later in 1991 beating Watson in a rematch, he then made 15 defences of that title whilst it being well documented that he struggled badley to make the weight. An American based fighter in the same situation would no doubt have moved up a division and gone for a 3rd weightclass title.

Joe Calzaghe made 20 odd defences of his Super middleweight world title before he'd had enough and eventually moved up for a couple of goes at light heavy, surely a fighter of his calibre again who complained of the difficulties of making weight could have moved up 5 years earlier.

Robin Reid was another who struggled to make the 12 stone limit but stuck at that weight instead of trying to campaign at light heavy.

Naseem hamed could surely have gone up to Super Feather and then even lightweight with his power but never tried, if he had perhaps he wouldn't have got bored with it all!

Ricky Hatton moved up won WBA welter title and then dropped back down after 1 below par night surely he could have stuck it out at welter and grew in to the weight. Instead back down to 10st a couple of cheap defences for the cash before going up to face Floyd, then dropping down to get wiped out by Manny!

Hats off to Haye, the second he cleaned up the Cruisers, on his bike to the next challenge, an anomoly in UK boxing.

Now we have Khan who is talking of moving through the weights and has the tools to do it but I won't hold my breath and wait for a British fighter to move up the weights.

But why don't they move up especially after losing?

is it the promoters in this country, or is it the fighters or is it a combo of both wanting the comfort zone and the kudos of being called world champ?

Sorry about the rambling, this a bit of a sore point for me with UK fighters and the lack of ambition when it comes to moving through the weights!

Sugar will risk the fury of some but think Joe's reluctance can be summed up in two words - Roy Jones

Its a fair comment, I was thinking similar things about Eubank and Michalcweski but his reign started around the same time Collins took over from Eubank when I checked.

rowley wrote:Sugar will risk the fury of some but think Joe's reluctance can be summed up in two words - Roy Jones

Do you mean that wasn't a prime RJ when they fought?!!!

How could you stoop so low rowley?

In Hatton's case he just never looked suited to WW, made very hard work of Urango and Collazzo (spelling).

I think he knew this himself. Hence the quick move back down.

Am sure Eubank fought at Cruiser?

Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:Am sure Eubank fought at Cruiser?

Didn't he fight Carl Thompson a couple of times at Cruiser?

Khan did move up - he started his career at lightweight, now light welter and has expressed an interest in moving upto welter after unified the 140 division.

Carl Froch has also expressed interest in moving up to light heavy for bigger fights after the super 6 - he has promised Pascal a rematch who is now campaigning at light heavy.

Hatton moved back down cos he was out on his feet against Collazo - another couple of minutes and he would have been on the canvas. Thats why he moved back down. He couldnt simply 'fill' into the division as he was too small and didnt carry the KO power up. He simply moved up for the money fights.

Haye campaigned at Cruiser - now a heavy.

I think you could pick some fighters who did and others who didnt.

Eubank admitted he preferred to be big fish in a small pond rather than small fish in a big pond. He just never had the ambition to go that one step up.

Could it be that British Fighters tend to start later? Mexicans have turned pro at 15/16. Leaves much more of an opportunity to grow.

Eubank is a poor example. Middleweight to Cruiser (fought for WBO strap there). Jones Jnr is revered for moving from middle to heavy whcih is only a copule of pounds more.

i think there is a difference between moving up the weights at the end of your career like eubank did working your way through the weights in your prime like khan intends to do. Froch will only go up for a clev style showdown i think, or at the end of his career. depends on whether he keeps his belt, if he does h e still has kess rematch, bute before he would consider it. after that and the ward fight maybe catch weight with bhop or pascal then clev in a finale. But Pascal has no belt now so may change froch thinking

Note to the author, are you copying me?!

In Hatton's case he just never looked suited to WW, made very hard work of Urango and Collazzo (spelling).
.....................
Hatton got battered by Collazo, Urango wasn't at WW it was at LWW

The Americans don't always move up to take on bigger men, either :

http://www.fighttoys.com/Carnera-Singer.htm

http://www.antekprizering.com/armstronggodfreysqoffpa.jpeg

Young_Towzer wrote:In Hatton's case he just never looked suited to WW, made very hard work of Urango and Collazzo (spelling).
.....................
Hatton got battered by Collazo, Urango wasn't at WW it was at LWW

True - Hatton was lucky to get the nod indeed.

Fair one on the cruiser for Eubank but he only fought at Cruiser when his career was virtually over and it was the only way he could stay in title contention, it wasn't like he moved up there with the intention of forging a career as a cruiserweight it was forced on him not by choice, but I take your point.

What I was really getting at with Eubank is that if he was struggling so much to make 12st for a long period why not move up to light heavy, the WBO would have got him a shot straight away?

And Eubank was never out of training so didn't blow up between fights, as a champ he defended almost every 12 weeks or so.

Great point on the mexicans, never really fought about that, Manny the ultimate mover upper was a child when he kicked off his career although obviously not a mexican!

Young_Towzer wrote:In Hatton's case he just never looked suited to WW, made very hard work of Urango and Collazzo (spelling).
.....................
Hatton got battered by Collazo, Urango wasn't at WW it was at LWW

I stand corrected on Urango.

My memory grows weak.

As I said earlier he looked ill-suited to WW as per the Collazo fight, hence the move back to LWW.

Apologies Sugar Ray Bray, one can only work with the name one was given can't I?

Hang on what am I on about, what about Walker Smith Junior?

Duke Mckenzie anybody...Tony Sibson...Eubank, Benn, Haye, Hatton, Hamed, Cockell, Fitzsimmons...plenty have...

Probably because they lack the talent to move up to cope with bigger men..

Those that move through the weights tend to be special...

Fitz was but who else????

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Duke Mckenzie anybody...Tony Sibson...Eubank, Benn, Haye, Hatton, Hamed, Cockell, Fitzsimmons...plenty have...

Probably because they lack the talent to move up to cope with bigger men..

Those that move through the weights tend to be special...

Fitz was but who else????

The modern US fighter tends to pick his way through the weights. RJJ, De La Hoya, Mayweather. None beat teh man at the weight.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Duke Mckenzie anybody...Tony Sibson...Eubank, Benn, Haye, Hatton, Hamed, Cockell, Fitzsimmons...plenty have...

Probably because they lack the talent to move up to cope with bigger men..

Those that move through the weights tend to be special...

Fitz was but who else????

From that list I would say Hamed - but i think he pressed the self destruct button later on in his career - but thats a different thread in itself.

Terry Downes fought for world titles at a couple of weights, McGuigan moved up unsuccessfully as well, Jock McAvoy fought at middle and light-heavy, the great Ted Kid Lewis was the world welterweight champ, but ended up by challenging Carpentier for his world title at 175, Honeyghan of course, went up to light-middle, where he got thumped by Pazienza, from memory, Owen Moran went through the weights from bantam to light and is rated close to the all-time top 20 by IBRO in at least two of them....

I'm not sure that the premise of this question is entirely right. Over the past 100 years or so, British boxers have always moved divisions. It's just the degree of success that they have enjoyed in them that has been somewhat variable.

Could it be that most of the Brits mentioned here fight at the higher end of the scale, which is generally harder to move up through? Mexicans and other Latino nationalities generally have a smaller build, and have a long pedigree of success at lower weights. Generally once we pass bout light middle or middleweight the difference between divisions seems to be a bit much for all but the best to make much impact.

captain carrantuohil wrote:
I'm not sure that the premise of this question is entirely right. Over the past 100 years or so, British boxers have always moved divisions. It's just the degree of success that they have enjoyed in them that has been somewhat variable.

I'm really refering to last 30 years, where it has become easier than ever before to move through divisions as there are more weights more belts, you name it the authorities encourage moving divisions now more than ever and really to our so called elite fighters.

Leonard, Hearns, Curry, Taylor, Mayweather, Jones jr, Qawi, Toney,mccallum, Spinks, Holyfield, Armstrong, Robinson etc etc etc.. all Mexicans are they??

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Leonard, Hearns, Curry, Taylor, Mayweather, Jones jr, Qawi, Toney,mccallum, Spinks, Holyfield, Armstrong, Robinson etc etc etc.. all Mexicans are they??

Mexicans no. Cherry pickers yes.

In that case, sugarrayb, the one who springs to mind alongside Naz would be his one-time Sheffield stable-mate Bomber Graham, who enjoyed a fair bit of success across three divisions. At a much less exalted level, we have Paul Weir and Robbie Regan, if you like. Pushing it a bit, possibly....

Mohammed Qawi surelt not a real American? Next you'll be telling me Arnold Scwarzeneggar and Barack Obama are.......

Cherry pickers???

Leonard fought p4p great Hagler..

Qawi fought Holy

Hearns fought p4p no 1 Hagler.

Maybe I should stop now......game over.

You amuse me..where in my post did I say Qawi was American??

Robbie Regan was a decent fighter and very unlucky or lucky (depending on how you choose to view it), did he not fail a brain scan shortly after winning a world title?

Terry Marsh ws more unlucky or stupid....Admitting he had epilepsy before a career seriously high payday against Hector Camacho!!!

Leonard pushed for twelve rounds instead of fifteen against Hagler...he also pushed for an immediate rematch with Duran knowing Duran would have gotten out of shape...but never cherry-picked...oh no.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Terry Marsh ws more unlucky or stupid....Admitting he had epilepsy before a career seriously high payday against Hector Camacho!!!

That was stupid. Not being a better shot (allegedly) was unlucky.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Cherry pickers???

Leonard fought p4p great Hagler..

Qawi fought Holy

Hearns fought p4p no 1 Hagler.

Maybe I should stop now......game over.

So easy nowadays Truss

He did indeed, SRB. Regan's brain scan came just after winning his second world belt (beating a very respectable fighter to do so). I'd forgotten how decent he was; life took a few wrong turns for him after that scan, unfortunately.

WBC had 12 rounds from 82 onwards....WBc sanctioned the Hagler fight..

What's wrong with that..He wanted an immediate rematch..

So what!!

Dear oh dear..

Leonard should have asked Duran when he wanted it???

Cherry picking fights against the hardest men in Boxing..

funny cherry picking..


You should stick to making racist rants....something you're good at.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Cherry picking fights against the hardest men in Boxing..

funny cherry picking..

You should stick to making racist rants....something you're good at.

A bit Rich coming from a white American

Brown..I've been using the sunbed at the gym.

Im not a homophobic EDL supporting BNP voter.......but I gotta say Truss.......SUNBEDS? Bit gay aint it

Sunbeds? Bit 'Jersey Shore', isn't it?

the one at the blue oyster is too expensive...

even for my pop-in-law...

Never seen the point in sunbeds in general.

Because you're so ugly there is no point in going on one..

esmerelda the bells!!!!!

It's more my aversion to melanoma, to be honest. That, and being orange just looks weird.

You'll look black and blue in a minute

Steffan wrote:Im not a homophobic EDL supporting BNP voter.......but I gotta say Truss.......SUNBEDS? Bit gay aint it

Listen you little little boy. Read your messages. You're just a silly little welshman way out of his/her (girl50?) depth. You have zero input other than the 'control c' button.

How do you know I'm not black already Truss..? Joking aside, I have a general aversion to sunbathing in any form, not just sunbeds, but I've never been sold on the tanned look.

Michaels, Sean wrote:

Steffan wrote:Im not a homophobic EDL supporting BNP voter.......but I gotta say Truss.......SUNBEDS? Bit gay aint it

Listen you little little boy. Read your messages. You're just a silly little welshman way out of his/her (girl50?) depth. You have zero input other than the 'control c' button.

Il bare that in mind Mr Tommy Robinson