Death in the ring!! Boxing's terrible heritage.

From the first great white hope Luther mccarthy to Benny Paret to Johnny Owen and Duk koo kim..boxing has a dark history of ring fatality.....Terrible for everybody involved and a reminder of the dangers of our great sport..

I know that Ray Mancini is still grieving for Duk koo, Griffiths is still guilty about Paret....They find it hard to believe that their fists are responsible for a Son and daughter losing a Dad and a Mother losing her Son...

Mancini-Kim is one of the best fights I've ever seen with two warriors colliding for 14 rounds and it's also Boxing's darkest aftermath...

Kim died a few days later, his Mother committed suicide by drinking bleach a short time later..and Richard Green the referee who felt guilty (although blameless) hung himself at his Vegas home soon after Kim's Mother died...Mancini's children were taunted about their "KILLER" dad during their high school years...

Worth remembering Boxing's dark heritage because everytime people call Mayweather, Jones jr duckers and cowards..they forget they are putting their lives on the line!!!!!

The ref in charge of the Paret fight should still be hanging his head in shame.

It was shocking refereeing...

Griffiths was accused of deliberately trying to kill him by Paret supporters.....

Paret's wife never forgave him..

The Kim story is a particularly grim one, Truss.

On youtube there is a very good documentary on Mancini which spends about 20 minutes on the Kim fight and the tragic aftermath..

well worth watching.

Mancini is certainly a man of honor..

Sad events such as these examples just go to show how brave the fighters are, many gyms have signs all over them stating that boxing is dangerous, but the fighters still do it.

I take my hat off to them all.

Agree with the sentiment but pretty sure I've heard you call guys like Victor Ortiz a quitter etc...

joeyjojo618 wrote:The ref in charge of the Paret fight should still be hanging his head in shame.

Worst of it is is that it was Ruby Goldstein, one of the foremost and most respected referees of the period, who presided over the fight.

There was a lot of needle in the build up to Paret v Griffith II, but i don't blame Griffith for one second, the ref had every opportunity to stop the fight, why he didn't i'll never know.

pretty sure..........

Ever seen the Ike williams - Beau Jack fight!!!!...Paret's ko was premature by comparison..

Think the documentary is called The Ray Mancini Story, i have it but have yet to watch it.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:It was shocking refereeing...

Griffiths was accused of deliberately trying to kill him by Paret supporters.....

Paret's wife never forgave him..

Paret son did, not sure whether many have seen it but there's an excellent documentary about Emile Griffith called The Ring of Fire. Culminating in Paret's son meeting up with Emile at Benny's graveside, a very moving picture.

Cheers Rodders

Very moving scene wasn't it...

Shows the guilt.... killing someone has on you...

I feel it everytime I debate with you Rodney on here

Ernie Schaaf is a really sad story. I mentioned it a while ago on the hardest punchers thread. He took a heavy punch from Max Baer that knocked him out right at the end of their second fight. He was "saved" by the bell but was completely knocked senseless. I read somewhere that he complained of headaches following the fight but carried on with his career.

The following year he fought Primo Carnera and was knocked out in the 13th round before slipping into a coma and undergoing brain surgery. He never recovered and died shortly after the fight. Carnera took some flak for Schaaf's death but I have read before that many people attributed his death to the punch he took in the Baer fight. It was suggested that he suffered the injury against Maxie which was then exacerbated by Carnera.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Very moving scene wasn't it...

Shows the guilt.... killing someone has on you...

I feel it everytime I debate with you Rodney on here

So you should mate, there's only so many times you can kill me with boredom.

Cheers Rodders

very good...

Thanks Truss, thats my one liner used up for the year!

Cheers Rodders

The Schaaf one is shrouded in mystery isn't it, Tino ?

I read part of his autopsy report, and the coroner opined that it was meningitis which very likely triggered Schaaf's haemorrhage, and Ernie, by all accounts, had contracted influenza during the latter stages of training for Carnera.

Coincidence ? Cover up ?

Guess we'll never know, but the punch with which Carnera felled Schaaf certainly didn't appear to carry any venom, so my guess would be that either the coroner was telling the truth or it was the Baer fight which accounted for Schaaf.

Luther mccarthy was found to have a weak spot in his brain that meant he was a walking accident...Maybe the same applied to Schaaf....

Owen had a weak skull...Maybe sometimes guys aren't cut out for the sport and tragically find out too late..

HumanWindmill wrote:The Schaaf one is shrouded in mystery isn't it, Tino ?

I read part of his autopsy report, and the coroner opined that it was meningitis which very likely triggered Schaaf's haemorrhage, and Ernie, by all accounts, had contracted influenza during the latter stages of training for Carnera.

Coincidence ? Cover up ?

Guess we'll never know, but the punch with which Carnera felled Schaaf certainly didn't appear to carry any venom, so my guess would be that either the coroner was telling the truth or it was the Baer fight which accounted for Schaaf.

You may know more about this than me Windy, but I am sure I read once that Schaaf woke from his coma, had a brief conversation wih his mother (or wife, I can't remember) and then fell back into a coma that he never woke from. That may well be a myth but I am sure I heard something along those lines.

I hadn't heard about the autopsy Windy, that is very interesting. I can't see why he/she would lie so maybe that explains it. Tragic event either way.

Big Primo took some almighty stick afterwards and I believe that some powerful people in the US administration wanted him banned from the ring following the fight.

The KO that finished Owen was sickening. It's said that as he was carried out the Mexican fans were throwing cups of beer at him and it looked like they were going to attack his corner at one stage.

Just watched Griffith meeting with Parett's son. Had never seen any of the documentary before and it is very, very moving.

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:The Schaaf one is shrouded in mystery isn't it, Tino ?

I read part of his autopsy report, and the coroner opined that it was meningitis which very likely triggered Schaaf's haemorrhage, and Ernie, by all accounts, had contracted influenza during the latter stages of training for Carnera.

Coincidence ? Cover up ?

Guess we'll never know, but the punch with which Carnera felled Schaaf certainly didn't appear to carry any venom, so my guess would be that either the coroner was telling the truth or it was the Baer fight which accounted for Schaaf.

You may know more about this than me Windy, but I am sure I read once that Schaaf woke from his coma, had a brief conversation wih his mother (or wife, I can't remember) and then fell back into a coma that he never woke from. That may well be a myth but I am sure I heard something along those lines.

I hadn't heard about the autopsy Windy, that is very interesting. I can't see why he/she would lie so maybe that explains it. Tragic event either way.

Big Primo took some almighty stick afterwards and I believe that some powerful people in the US administration wanted him banned from the ring following the fight.

Thinking about, with Primo's alledged links to the mob, who knows what "pressure" the coroner was under to clear Carnera of blame. Perhaps that is too cynical but you can never rule these things out.