Martin Corry's England RWC 30

Courtesy of planetrugby.co.uk:

Props
Stevens, Cole, Corbisiero, Sheridan

Hookers
Hartley, Chuter, Thompson

Locks
Lawes, Palmer, Deacon

Back-row
Moody (capt), Easter, Croft, Haskell, Wood, Waldrom

Scrum-halves
Youngs, Care

Fly-halves
Wilkinson, Flood

Centres
Flutey, Hape, Tindall, Tuilagi

Wing/Full back
Cueto, Ashton, Foden, Moyne, Banahan, Armitage

Some interesting calls there - Waldrom, Tuilagi and Moyne in particular.

It looks pretty light at half back but I guess he's thinking that Foden acts as emergency cover at 9.

Personally I'd ditch Moyne and take Joe Simpson. I'd also give serious thought to taking Shaw ahead of Waldrom.

I suspect he's pretty close.

Ignoring the personnel for a second, I'm slightly surprised at the make-up of his proposed squad - 6 back-rowers and 6 wing/fullbacks - seems a tad profligate to me, as these are normally areas where you can spare a player to cover at scrum-half or fly-half where you'll have two in every playing XXII and are most vulnerable to injury

For completeness, here's Corry's thinking behind his selections:

Many moons ago, in the England camp, I remember the perceived 'versatility of Austin Healy virtually costing him a World Cup place, as no-one was quite sure where to play him or what his best position was. Certainly the pocket rugby genius was very unlucky not to be part of the 2003 winning side, losing out to specialist winger Dan Luger, and Austin's lack of specialism appeared to cost him dearly in that instance. (very possibly other things may have counted against him too but that is another story!)

However, fast forward to 2011 and it's that V word again that really is the key to selection of the final lucky 30. Versatility, no longer such a dirty word, is very much at the epicentre of the current England squad and I wanted to examine what I think will be the fortunate 30 to get on the plane come the end of August

At prop, Dan Cole and Sheridan are nailed on, and Matt Stevens will travel as he's able to play both 1 and 3 at international level. Corbisiero will also go, and he plays tighthead in emergency too. That leaves one propping berth from the traditional five, but I'm guessing England will gamble on taking only four, although if they take another, my pick for the last one would be Paul Doran-Jones, a grafting technician.

At hooker, I feel certain England will be compelled to take three, and as Chuter, Thompson and Hartley are all in the 45-man initial squad, I don't see any variance and all will go.

The back five of the pack balance is interesting. Certainly they'll take eight players, possibly nine if they only select four props. Rumour has it that only three locks will travel, with Croft and perhaps Easter covering the fourth lock role, and Lawes acting as an auxiliary back-rower if required. I think my old mate Simon Shaw has finally reached the end of a long and distinguished career and also, due to shoulder injuries, he's only able to pack down on one side these days, so rather sadly, he'll miss out. On that basis, Palmer, Lawes and the much-improved Deacon will travel, with Attwood, Botha and Shaw unlucky.

That leaves us with five or six back-row berths and I think five are pretty much already selected. It goes without saying that skipper Moody, Croft and Easter are very much first choice selections, with Tom Wood's performances this season giving him a strong claim.

Without another regular number eight in the squad the last berth therefore must go to the ever-improving Haskell, who can cover all three back-row positions and is physically very suited to eight, if a little inexperienced there. Should they take a ninth player, it will be a toss up between Hendre Fourie, who offers support running and great ruck work, or Thomas Waldrom with his huge carries but liable to get isolated and turned over. I don't personally believe either player offers much more than the ones already chosen so I reckon they may stick with just the five loose forwards.

Moving onto the half-backs, again versatility is the watchword. Danny Care and Ben Youngs are already on the aircraft for sure, and I've a sneaking suspicion that Ben Foden will be the emergency third scrum-half. Again, at 10, Jonny Wilkinson and Toby Flood (both of whom can play at 12) are shoo-ins, and I expect Flutey to come back in as the third 10 cover due to his ability to cover all of the midfiled positions, and the fact he offers something different in attack. I'd caveat that by saying that all three choices at 10 are rather physically fragile, but we'll talk about that in a moment.

If selected as above that would leave nine places for the 3/4's and outside backs. Tindall and Hape are certain to travel, as are Cueto, Ashton and I think Banahan (versatile again- 12, 13, 14). That leaves four - I'm betting Armitage's dark days are now behind him, and he'll offer value at both 13 and 15.

Manu Tuilagi has been fast tracked to the EPS and again, he's an X-factor player, offering the ability to really explode off the bench and dent big defences. I think he'll feature. There will be a battle between Moyne and Strettle for the spare wing slot, and, weighing it all up, Moyne's experience and stronger defence will come through.

According to my simple maths, that makes 29, leaving one spare place. I must admit to being concerned about Flood and Wilko as the primary half-backs as both are fragile when it comes to injury record. Charlie Hodgson would be the natural choice should they wish to augment that position and may yet make the cut, especially if he puts in good displays in the warm up tests. However, looking at the players selected and what we may need, I think I'll take a flyer and, despite my comments about eight back five players, I'll suggest Thomas Waldrom for the last slot as I believe he would add impact off the bench when required, but also has vast knowledge of the conditions available in New Zealand. So assuming they'll take the extra back-rower, Thomas the Tank makes up my 30-man squad, but equally, as noted, you could put forward arguments for Attwood, Fourie, Botha and Shaw in the forwards, Simpson and Hodgson in the half-backs, and Strettle in the backs.

I actually probably agree with most of his choices.

Wouldnt have Waldrom in though.....and is anyone else alarmed at the midfield.

I'd go with Fourie rather than Waldrom if we are taking 6 back rowers, but would be tempted to put Shaw back in instead of either.

Otherwise, I think we'll take Simpson as a third specialist SH (and he's quick enough to cover the 3/4 line in an emergency), at the expense of probably Monye (possibly Tuillagi)

For me, the make up for a squad of 30 should be roughly your first choice 22 plus a reserve bench of 7 plus 1 wild card. With this in mind my squad would be:

Props: Sheridan, Corbesiero, Cole, Stevens
Hooker: Hartley, Thompson, Chuter
Second Row: Laws, Palmer, Deacon, Shaw
Back Row: Wood, Easter, Moody, Croft, Haskell
Scrum Half: Youngs, Care, Simpson
Fly Half: Wilkinson, Flood, Hodgson
Centers: Hape, Tindall, Tuilagi
Wings: Ashton, Cueto, Banahan
Full Back: Foden

Wild Card : Armitage

For me the idea of Foden covering scrum half doesn’t work as you are never going to go into a game without a scrum half on the bench and Foden is going to be on the field if fit. The same goes for second row, if you get an injury you are not going to go into a match without a second row on the bench and the proposed cover in Croft and Easter are going to be on the pitch.

With Armitage as the wild card selection to cover full back, wings and OC I think we are fairly well covered in the back 3. In terms of make up of the squad the only place I can see a debate is around the 3rd choice fly half as potentially we are light at inside centre. I can see why Flutey has been mentioned as he could potentially fill the role of cover for fly half and inside centre but from what I have seen this season he isn’t good enough in either position. Whatever happens it’s going to be a tough balancing act for Mr Johnson!

Only 2 scrumhalves + Flyhalves but 6 backthree players and 6 backrow players?

I can understand the arguement of having Flutey in the squad over Hodgson. Flutey won't start at 10 or 12 but he can offer cover for both positions should we get an injury. Eg, if Flood, Wilkinson or Hape (who will all be in the 22) get an injury then Flutey could come in either starting at 12 (if Hape gets injured) or ontothe bench (if Flood or Wilkinson get injured). I'm not saying Flutey should definitely be in as the "3rd ten", but it is an option.

However, I can't agree with Foden being the "3rd nine". In my opinon he is the best full-back in Europe and if we get an injury at 9 then we could end up with a sub-standard 9 (as Foden isn't an International class 9) and be weakend at full-back (where Armitage or Cueto will not be as strong). For me we should have a 3rd specialist 9, even if that means we miss out on dedicated 15 cover (with Cueto covering full back and Banahan and/or Tuilagi as centres who can play wing). Even in an emergancy, I'd rather have two scrum-halves on the pitch (say Youngs at 9 and Simpson on the wing) and have Cueto at full-back than have Foden at 9, Cueto on the wing and Armitage at full-back.

I think squad make-up is almost as interesting a debate about personnel itself. From Corry's squad, I'd definitely drop a back three player for a third scrum-half, and then depending on if Banahan gets a bit of time (in training and in warm-ups) at 12 we can look at whether we go for Hodgson or Flutey. The "16th forward" is also an interesting pick, whether it will be a second row, a back row or possibly even a prop.

GeordieFalcon wrote:I actually probably agree with most of his choices.

Wouldnt have Waldrom in though.....and is anyone else alarmed at the midfield.

Alarmed? Doesn't even cover it marra. I find it amazing that these are the 'best' centres we have. Jeez, don't get me started again!

Ha ha sorry matey, ill change the topic....

So are you pleased with the Falcons world class recruitme.....oh erm...

Been glorious weather aint it

I think taking only one specialist TH is very risky - Stevens will be destroyed at TH by a decent scrum. I'd leave Corbisero out and take Wilson, or take 5 props.

I'm sure we'll take 4 locks (allowing Lawes, who England have very seriously considered picking as a backrow even in the last 6 months) to cover 6 if necessary. I can't see how we can take Shaw given his injuies and the fact he couldn't last 80 minutes - Botha is the better player and should go. A Lawes-Botha second row would make an enormous number of tackles and hit a huge number of rucks.

I think a backrow of Moody, Easter, Croft, Haskell and Wood is right.

I don't think Monye has done anything to deserve inclusion, and I'd swap him for Simpson or even Wigglesworth (who could cover 10 in an emergency). Finally it is a straight shoot-out between Hodgson and Flutey.

England's midfield was always going to be limited at the 2011 WC. At least Tuilagi is likely to be in the squad, which is a big step forward. Then hopefully by the 6 Nations Twelvetrees will be featuring.

Toadfish wrote:For me, the make up for a squad of 30 should be roughly your first choice 22 plus a reserve bench of 7 plus 1 wild card. With this in mind my squad would be:

Props: Sheridan, Corbesiero, Cole, Stevens
Hooker: Hartley, Thompson, Chuter
Second Row: Laws, Palmer, Deacon, Shaw
Back Row: Wood, Easter, Moody, Croft, Haskell
Scrum Half: Youngs, Care, Simpson
Fly Half: Wilkinson, Flood, Hodgson
Centers: Hape, Tindall, Tuilagi
Wings: Ashton, Cueto, Banahan
Full Back: Foden

Wild Card : Armitage

For me the idea of Foden covering scrum half doesn’t work as you are never going to go into a game without a scrum half on the bench and Foden is going to be on the field if fit. The same goes for second row, if you get an injury you are not going to go into a match without a second row on the bench and the proposed cover in Croft and Easter are going to be on the pitch.

With Armitage as the wild card selection to cover full back, wings and OC I think we are fairly well covered in the back 3. In terms of make up of the squad the only place I can see a debate is around the 3rd choice fly half as potentially we are light at inside centre. I can see why Flutey has been mentioned as he could potentially fill the role of cover for fly half and inside centre but from what I have seen this season he isn’t good enough in either position. Whatever happens it’s going to be a tough balancing act for Mr Johnson!

That looks like the most balanced selection i've seen so far. Would only really pick fault with Shaw as i think he's a bit past it now. But that is only my opinion and i wouldn't have a tantrum if he was selected!

So this suggests a 22, based on my view of recent form and MJ's prejudicies, of:

Sheridan
Hartley
Cole
Lawes
Palmer
Croft
Moody
Easter
Care
Flood (Wilkinson very close)
Cueto
Flutey/Hape
Tindall
Ashton
Foden

Stevens
Thompson
Botha
Wood
Youngs
Wilkinson
Armitage

I like the bench, and the starting line up isn't bad, but this doesn't look like a squad to win a SH WC.

If Flood and Youngs could get their form of last aumtumn back, and Flutey his of a couple of years ago, then we'd look a lot stronger. I think my biggest concern then is the backrow unit.

Carpe Diem wrote:

Toadfish wrote:For me, the make up for a squad of 30 should be roughly your first choice 22 plus a reserve bench of 7 plus 1 wild card. With this in mind my squad would be:

Props: Sheridan, Corbesiero, Cole, Stevens
Hooker: Hartley, Thompson, Chuter
Second Row: Laws, Palmer, Deacon, Shaw
Back Row: Wood, Easter, Moody, Croft, Haskell
Scrum Half: Youngs, Care, Simpson
Fly Half: Wilkinson, Flood, Hodgson
Centers: Hape, Tindall, Tuilagi
Wings: Ashton, Cueto, Banahan
Full Back: Foden

Wild Card : Armitage

For me the idea of Foden covering scrum half doesn’t work as you are never going to go into a game without a scrum half on the bench and Foden is going to be on the field if fit. The same goes for second row, if you get an injury you are not going to go into a match without a second row on the bench and the proposed cover in Croft and Easter are going to be on the pitch.

With Armitage as the wild card selection to cover full back, wings and OC I think we are fairly well covered in the back 3. In terms of make up of the squad the only place I can see a debate is around the 3rd choice fly half as potentially we are light at inside centre. I can see why Flutey has been mentioned as he could potentially fill the role of cover for fly half and inside centre but from what I have seen this season he isn’t good enough in either position. Whatever happens it’s going to be a tough balancing act for Mr Johnson!

That looks like the most balanced selection i've seen so far. Would only really pick fault with Shaw as i think he's a bit past it now. But that is only my opinion and i wouldn't have a tantrum if he was selected!

Yeah much as I am a massive fan of Shaw I think time might have finally caught up with him. Was Botha the only other lock in the squad? I can't say I have seen much of him to be honest. It will probably come down to how the old man fairs in the training camp!

Its also worth remembering that all the scrum halves mentioned are pretty rapid and Youngs for one has done a stint on the wing as an injury replacement.