South Africa 9 - 14 Australia : Post Match Discussion

http://rugby.opticon.hu/meccsek/110813HrNemz-Del-Afr-Ausztr.avi
Here is a download link to the game if anyone hasn't seen it yet.

South Africa's World Cup preparations suffered a major blow as they slipped to a third straight Tri-Nations defeat against Australia at Durban's King's Park.

Penalties from Francois Steyn and Butch James, to one from James O'Connor, saw the hosts lead 6-3 at half-time.

Pat McCabe's try put the Wallabies ahead before James's second penalty edged the Boks back in front.

But two more O'Connor penalties in the final quarter saw Australia home.

The Springboks recalled a host of front-line players after a long period of inactivity but despite fielding the most experienced Test side in their history, they could not fashion a try.

They have only one match left, against the in-form All Blacks next Saturday, to recover some form and momentum before they open the defence of their world crown against Wales on 11 September.

New Zealand have opted to rest captain Richie McCaw, fly-half Dan Carter and a host of other leading names for their Tri-Nations match against the Springboks in Port Elizabeth next Saturday, 20 August.

Number eight Kieran Read, lock Brad Thorn, prop Owen Franks and backs Mils Muliaina and Conrad Smith will also miss the trip to South Africa as coach Graham Henry tries to keep players fresh for the World Cup.

Hooker Keven Mealamu will assume the captaincy, Colin Slade will get another chance to cement his place as Carter's back-up in the World Cup squad, and Israel Dagg, Isaia Toeava, Richard Kahui and Tony Woodcock all return after injury.

South Africa: Francois Steyn, JP Pietersen, Jaque Fourie, Jean De Villiers, Bryan Habana, Butch James, Fourie du Preez; Tendai Mtawarira, John Smit (capt), Jannie du Plessis, Bakkies Botha, Victor Matfield, Heinrich Brussow, Danie Rossouw, Pierre Spies.

Replacements: Bismarck du Plessis, Guthro Steenkamp, Gerhard Mostert, Jean Deysel, Francois Hougaard, Morne Steyn, Gio Aplon.

Australia: Kurtley Beale, James O'Connor, Adam Ashley-Cooper, Pat McCabe, Digby Ioane, Quade Cooper, Will Genia; Sekope Kepu, Stephen Moore, Ben Alexander, Nathan Sharpe, James Horwill, Rocky Elsom (capt), David Pocock, Scott Higginbotham.

Replacements: Saia Faingaa, Salesi Maafu, Sitaleki Timani, Ben McCalman, Radike Samo, Luke Burgess, Anthony Fainga'a.

Bit to and fro in the first half, felt the SA's should have capitalised on a dominant first qtr but Australia have hustled well.

One thing which has been confirmed (if it ever needed confirming) is that Bryce Lawrence is a plonker of the highest order and how he keeps being handed test matches to officiate must surely be down to someone receiving 'favours'. He is cack end of.

Things don't bode well for Australia V Ireland in the RWC given Lawrence is refereeing that one as well. Maybe he was beaten up as a kid by someone wearing yellow. Penalty count was about 7-2 to SA in the first half. Utterly confusing rulings at times.

Australia seemingly unable to hold the ball for more than 2 phases without dropping it.

More excitement and skill in the first 5 minutes of this than the entire Wales v England game. Surprised there have only been 6 points scored as both sides have created some great chances and usually finish them off. Australia ddn't do themselves any favous with the lifting in the tackle - wondered if Elsom was deliberately winding Botha up with the first one.

Australia really want this to open up and they've had some excellent sweeping moves and some good breaks. SA also had their moments but the knocked on pass from Matfield and the knock forward on the kick into the goal area both saved Australia.
Hope 2nd half as good but with tries this time. Anyone's game.

Pat McCabe good try - worked from Cooper and especially O'Connor who sucked in 2 defenders and put McCabe into acres of space on the outside.

6-8 kick to come

chewed_mintie wrote:Pat McCabe good try - worked from Cooper and especially O'Connor who sucked in 2 defenders and put McCabe into acres of space on the outside.

6-8 kick to come

Updated ... sorry I'm slacking im talking about Wales V england

Kick missed but it brings something to my attention; has anyone ever been timed out when lining up a kick? There is supposed to be a one minute time limit and both Butch James and O'Conner have been taking ages. In one instance, James took an age, started to move in and then the ball fell off the tee. Lawrence called time off and let him line up the kick without a time limit. I thought if you are moving toward the ball and it is dislodged then you cannot replace it and it has to be drop kicked? Anyway, the point remains these kickers are taking an aaaaagggggeeeee

And SA are looking extremely scrappy now....Du Preez has been charged down on his line and most of his kicks are pretty poor to be honest

chewed_mintie wrote:I thought if you are moving toward the ball and it is dislodged then you cannot replace it and it has to be drop kicked?

Only applies to conversions, strangely.

http://www.irblaws.com/EN/laws/3/9/89/during-the-match/method-of-scoring/the-kickers-team-/#clause_89

Wow Spies just busted through the Aussie defence and guess who stopped him! The walking turnstile himself, Quade Cooper!

greybeard wrote:

chewed_mintie wrote:I thought if you are moving toward the ball and it is dislodged then you cannot replace it and it has to be drop kicked?

Only applies to conversions, strangely.

http://www.irblaws.com/EN/laws/3/9/89/during-the-match/method-of-scoring/the-kickers-team-/#clause_89

Thanks Greybeard...

Butch James has kicked a pen and it's 9-8

Think Spies has had his best game for the boks in a long time. Can't imagine how PDV thinks James is any improvement on Steyn on running a backline... and with his hot/cold kicking he surely can't be first choice 10.

Smit just doesn't look like he cares anymore..... he is a complete liability, gets turned over in the scrum, in the loose and isn't fit enough anymore to cover his defensive duties.

Also.. has Frans Steyn been on the Paul Gascoigne diet? Watching him chase an up & under was hilarious...there are sloths quicker at the moment.

SA get turned on their scrum by Australia...... PDV, thats what happens when you put an overweight hooker at tighthead.

Aus have the worst scrum out of all the 6N/3N + Argentina..... its embarassing.

Sth African scrum has just been marched back 7 mtrs after having conceded a scrum for going 90 deg. This is getting embarrassing for SA

Pen Aus to take it 9-14 with 5 to go

How many crooked lineouts have SA gotten away with? At least 3 and counting.

SA lineout 5 off oz line - 30 secs to go and 5 pts down...

PDV for coach of the year?

Roussouw knocks on under no pressure and the game is over. Australia take a well deserved 14-9 win and the 3N is now a two horse race.

Never seen so many dropped balls. Weather wasnt good so understadable but I certainly fancy our chances next week...

defo taylorman.....first I thought we'd probably lose but on the evidence of that display I think we'll win

it was raining pretty hard in the last 20 mins so dropped balls would be expected.

However I can't remember seeing the boks with so little urgency.... they seemed like they were just going through the paces... not at the typical bok 200mph rugby.

Can someone pull Lawrence aside and actually explain the rules to him. You could see he really had no idea tonight.

All up a tightly contested game, not much in it. SA a bit rusty and Aus were a bit ordinary. I don't think anyone would be quaking in their boots after witnessing that.

Full Credit wrote:Can someone pull Lawrence aside and actually explain the rules to him. You could see he really had no idea tonight.

Haha, Lawrence has been cruelly exposed tonight. A bit like a 14 yr old boy being downtrou'd in front of the girls PE class. Red faces all around.....

He shouldn't be allowed to officiate at this level. Again, he is giving favours to someone very high up....

Have to admit i really didnt feel like i was watching a 3N match.
Except for a couple of moments it just lacked so much. Urgency. Intensity.
Think ill stick to picking the ab scores.
Good thing for oz was they stuck it out with tbe whole side not relying on the usuals.
But jeez not a lot to write home about fron either side.

Point is though,Wallabies with there tails up have a real chance of the 3Ns in Brisbane now.
All Blacks me well rue the day inSA next week,both sides did`nt actually set the world alight.
BUT an away win in SA is to be respected,I expected a close result either way.
Boks can be expected to be sharper next week against a weakened All Black side with a 3 rd choice Captain.
Australia now plan for and rest before ABs in Brisbane,to win the 3Ns they need a bonus point win next week by the all Blacks sorry can`t see it happening.

Frankly after that display abs mite sweep them both aside.
The players next week are bursting to prove themselves and SA looked decidedly lethargic Lacked any cohesion so much i coudlnt beloeve it.
Brisbane theyll bring back the guns.

Lawrence understanding of the maul is hideous. Nathan Sharpe and another wallaby came in almost from the SA side on a couple and he refused to give the penalty to SA. He seemed to get it right at the end of the game but i think he may have been told by the linesman.

That being said from what i saw in the 2nd half Aus were well worth their win. PDV really needs to drop Smit imo.

Matfield should be captain for the world cup, is he fit?

The question is what sort of damage isthis doing to the Boks confidence? PDV clearly had a plan but its been going badly wrong now for a while and it doesnt seem he knows how to change things around.

I wouldnt be so quick to dismiss the NZ side next week.

I think most of the South African players are competing for reserve places in the squad to be honest. It's also taking focus off South Africa, which will take the pressure off them.

TycroesOsprey wrote:PDV clearly had a plan but its been going badly wrong now for a while and it doesnt seem he knows how to change things around.

The only plan Pdivvy has is to use the one Jake White came up with for 2007! It won a World Cup but that was almost by default (let's not go there) and it is sooooooooo outdated. Plan B should be helter skelter....imagine the scene in the semi final. Springboks find themselves 5 points down and 20 inside their half against NZ. NZ expect the ol' Morne Steyn up and under BUT he passes it and in doing so, the cobwebs are blown away from the criminally under used mid-field and kick chasers (ie the wingers). The NZ defence, so long accustomed to dropping back for the kick every time Steyn touches it are suddenly chasing shadows, who would have thought the simple idea of using one's backline could be so effective?

Do the boks have a backs coach or is this Pdivvy's dept as well?

Australia is the most improved team in International rugby over the last 18 months..

When I first watched this live I thought it was a real bludger of a game but on the second viewing I think it was just a tightly contested, pressure test match.

Sure there were plenty of handling errors (which I don't think the weather can be blamed for because it only starting raining the last 20mins) but the game wasn't helped by some clueless refereeing decisions at the breakdown.

The first 10 minutes were quite promising with Australia bombing a try in about the 5th minute and a good break by Elsom. The ball retention and phase play was decent early. There were a couple of good hits but also a few iffy looking lifting tackles. McCabe's looked worse than Elsom's and could get a week or 2 on the sidelines for his efforts which could be a blessing in disguise if that means Faiinga gets a start who looked far hungrier when he came on.

South Africa was clearly underdone with their match fitness and will probably rue turning down early points and missing kickable penalties. They looked pretty buggered around the 50min mark and their attack was a bit one-dimensional. James at 10 was the wrong option. Not really sure why the TMO took so long to disallow that try. The ball was clearly propelled forward into Cooper's mug.

Australia created plenty of opportunities but were their own worst enemies with dropped ball, forward passes, early lineout jumps etc. Last year Australia would start at 100 miles an hour, build a good lead then fade badly. The last 2 games they've been kept to 0 at half time though winning the second half.

All up it was a pretty scrappy affair and I don't think NZ would have made such of meal of it but any win in SA is a gone one. I expect SA to be better next week.

Any win for us in SA is a good result, so well done Wallabies on that front. There was some poorer aspects of our game, but on the whole, to get a win over there without our back line being the sole reason is good. I'm liking Kepu's contributions and even Alexander is looking like an improvement on where we have been for the last while. We might have seen the last of Ben mcCalman for a while, but at 22, he has plenty of time.

SA looked out on their feet as the second half wore on, but they will be better for the run. Spies had the best game I had seen from him in a while. Frans Steyn looks so much like a Frenchman now I expected the camera to catch him smoking a ciggie in back play. He is one big unit for a full back. Butch's accuracy in general didn't help their cause.

Commiserations Bok fans. If we meet in 5 or 6 weeks time, today won't have much bearing on the result.

I thought it was encouraging the W won without reliance on their typical high tempo running game. It was though aggressive defense, and a great scrum. The ABs have a better scrum with the right front row but Aust has improved tremendously this season.

Hope A Faingaa gets a start next test in place of AAC - it is a good opp to try some new in the centres. McCabe still fine . AAC not up to test standard. It is clear.

It's a shame as I think AAC is the better player of the three, but he is in lean times for sure. I actually don't think they will bench him, though Ant defended really well at the end there. He's a text book tackler.

I've liked what McCabe has done, even though it's not the jaw drop stuff the others produce. There was a moment there today when he got thrown a loose ball seconds before a Bokke absolutely mullered him. He took the hit, turned and placed the ball. It was simple but solidly done and that seems to sum up what he brings. He's not the next Horan, but not a bad find either.

Drop AAC? Are you serious? Sure he might be slightly out of form but he saves his best for the AB's and let me tell you this; IF it came down to an AB OZ final, I'd feel better knowing that we were up against McCabe or Fainga over AAC. He's bust us open a few times in the past, these other two don't scare me in the slightest.

Defensively faianga looks stronger but AAC turns it on against the abs right when they need it so a good selection problem to have for oz. Plenty of time to work faainga in and a good option off the bench.

http://rugby.opticon.hu/meccsek/110813HrNemz-Del-Afr-Ausztr.avi

Here is a download link to the game if anyone hasn't seen it yet.

chewed_mintie wrote:Drop AAC? Are you serious? Sure he might be slightly out of form but he saves his best for the AB's and let me tell you this; IF it came down to an AB OZ final, I'd feel better knowing that we were up against McCabe or Fainga over AAC. He's bust us open a few times in the past, these other two don't scare me in the slightest.

I think slightly out of form is major understatement. As to the ABs, what did AAC do at Eden Park that makes him so compelling? He had a decent 2010 and he is there for historical performances. His loss of form this year is inexplicable. I don't know how much Super Rugby you watch but AAC had a woeful season and he has showed nothing at test level - so he has been out of form for the whole season yet is cemented in at 13. He had break on the w/end because Cooper put him through a hole and proceeded to bomb a certain try by not passing the ball to an unmarked Beale 30m out. Instead he stepped inside into 3 defenders. No lateral vision.
I don't think many people have seen much of Faingaa at centre and write him off as a result. He had an immediate impact off the bench with his defense - the hit on Habana lead directly to a penalty which put OZ in front in the second half. He also combines much better with his wingers. If you have 2 centres that cannot pass the ball then the wingers are denied the ability to get into the game - that's why Loane and Cooper have to do so much roaming to actually get a hold of the ball - there is no distribution from the centres.

Yeah I'm handing in my AAC fan club membership card. He basically had a forgettable super15 season in an abysmal brumbies outfit but we were all assured he'd come good in the gold jersey which has yet to happen. He's clearly not a fan of passing and having 2 pass averting centres is 2 too many especially with the talent in the back 3. You can see when AAC gets into space he never looks like passing. That dummy he threw to score against the boks in the first tri-nations he didn't even look at his outside man, it was just a 'going through the motions' dummy.

That said, I'm still not a fan of McCabe either. I don't think you can have both McCabe and AAC. If these 2 are so great why were the Brumbies so awful? Faainga has to be in there somewhere.

I'm holding on to my badge for the moment FC, but can see your points. I'm just praying he comes good as he is a weapon when going and has proved so for long enough to earn my loyalty, and we are very very green in the back line without him.

If Barnes proves he's fit, do you want him back in the 15? The 22? Does a yes influence your choice at 13?

To be perfectly honest mate I have no idea. I'm all for giving people their chance and see who grabs the bull by the horns. There are so many possible combinations if Barnes and Mitchell come back it boggles the mind.

If Barnes came back he would probably be best at 12 assuming Cooper is penned in at 10. He's solid in defence and a much better ball player than McCabe but lacks a bit of go-forward. I like the idea of having someone to get us over the gain line and can probably overlook his passing inability. If crash ball isn't getting us anywhere and a bit of deception is required then bring Barnes on later in the game. I would have him in the 22 as he can cover 12/10 if Cooper's having a meltdown.

I'd like to see a bit more 'red' in the backline. Faainga is in great form and his understanding with Cooper / Ioane could make the difference. The Reds backline always had great shape to it, better than the Wallabies at the moment. At least start him and see what happens, if it's all a bit overwhelming then bring on the old head of AAC to hopefully sure things up. Having McCabe and Faainga together would sure put the opposition attack in 2 minds.

If Mitchell returns that makes the backline anyone's guess. He was in great form before his injury and needs to be in there somewhere assuming he hasn't lost any zip. You'd probably have to alternate the 3 wingers but another option could be to play Ioane at 13 as he used to play a bit there and is so strong in the tackle but would be a bit out of practice there. O'Connor could always go to 12 to make way for Mitchell on the wing.

To sum up, there are umpteen possible combinations that could all work on their day. It's doing my head in just thinking about it.

The bit of red I wanted to see is Beau. I just don't understand what went wrong as I was presuming he would be involved. Came on against Samoa, went ok, and then nothing but Hodgeson. There is absolutely no talk of him though, so I guess he is gone.

Right now the thing I'm sweating on more than anything else is the injured blokes. TPN, Mitchell, Slipper and Palu with some form would really help. It's a lot of blokes to get back in form without losing games is the part that worries me, but without them I fear we are not good enough as our bench often looks a bit light weight to me.

So... Smit has finally been dropped form the Boks side. Or is it just an injury concern?

Lambie, Pietersen, Fourie, De Villiers, Habana, M Steyn, Du Preez; Spies, Alberts, Brussow, Matfield (c), Botha, J du Plessis, B du Plessis, Steenkamp. Bench: Smit, Mtawarira, Vd Linde, Rossouw, Johnson, Hougaard, James.

Beau's vanished off the face of the Earth. I didn't think he went too badly either against Samoa. He knocked on early but at least showed some urgency. Deans must think we only need one fetcher in there and Pocock is immune to injury.

An in-form Cliffy Palu would be ideal but I think Samo could do the job if needed. I like the understanding between Genia and Samo at scrum time. Personally I think it should be a rule in international rugby that all teams must have at least 1 'fro in the side.

The SA backrow has more balance to it and with Morne & Du Preez having a good understanding and switching the playmaking role between them I think SA will have a good chance at beating the AB A- side (i.e. missing 9 1st choice players.. esp. McCaw & Carter).

Lambie is still a little lightweight for my liking at 15.... bigger than Aplon though but then again so is most 11yr olds...

I remember when he first came into the WP side and we were amazed how he competed.... quality player and defies his tiny stature.

Fa it might surprise you that Lambie weighs 90kg's

Yeah, I guess we've just grown used to seeing fullbacks like Steyn, Bryne, Kearney who are all 6'3 and +100kg.

I think Steyn's been eating a few too many croissants!