Chris Ashton - sleeping star or passenger?

First topic message reminder :

A question for all those England fans. Ashton has now had two very quiet games on the trot. Is he in a slump? He has hardly touched the ball in 160 mins of rugby but worryingly his first up tackling seems to be very weak especially from someone brought up on RL. Is it time to bench him?

If I was making the call I'd be very tempted to give someone else a go on the wing.

leinsterbaby wrote:

bathmad wrote:

EnglishReign wrote:He should've been up supporting Foden when he made the break yesterday.

He was. He and Wilkinson were on Foden's right, but Foden only saw left, and Armitage.

Where was Banahan? He is going to need a big game v romania to scoop top try scorer.

He'll come good, mark my words!!

He's still new to test match rugby. Most wingers have a non scoring patch at some points of their careers. Its just one of those things.

Look at Williams he went from one season to being outstanding and player of the year to a medicore season by his standards.

I do think he's probably the best finisher in England at the moment though and the best option England have. Wouldn't trade him for Halfpenny, Williams or North mind you (from a Welshmans perspective).

Seabiscuit. I'm now not sure that you can actually read something and understand it at the same time. You seem intent on making things up to suit your own agenda. Which is....

I hate to contnue to get dragged into this but if you say ask " is he a passenger" and " is it time to bench him" then say " Id be temptd to look at someon else" is it not reasonable to infer that you were advocating droping (as opposed to resting) him?
What other reading could their be? If you meant he should be rested for one of the upcoming pool games as all players would be (injuries allowing) then yes of course but thats a facile point and not what is suggested by what you wrote. If you want people to read it differently try and be clear.
The only other winger is Banahan, hes not going to track or find the ball any better than Ashton and certainly isnt going to do more damage out wide when he has it.

Im also struggling to see how your words can be interpreted any other way than to suggest that he is to blame for being quiet, whereas other people myself included debated this by contending that the problem is the forwards halfbacks and centers have ben unable to get the go forward and create the broken play he needs to exploit. It isnt the wingers job to get into the game, its the rest of the teams job to get them in it ...once they have the ball its then down to them to do the damage. Yes at his most effective he was hunting opportunity but that was when the ball was moving forward and coming out quickly, leaving space and gaps in the middle for him to i. When that isnt happening he keeps his position out wide rather than ending up playing as a bad crash ball center. If England could string a few phases of decent posession together and start moving the ball around then youd see him in the game again, but at the minute sides arent letting them do that and the rest of the team isnt executing well enough. The more that happens the more they start looking to win and kick pnaltes because they cant see where the try is coming from and the less they look to make the opportunities for the wingers. They wont be able to do that aginst the likes of Australia and New Zealand though, and will get beaten to a pulp by SA as happned before so they need to start executing better and get back to plan A, scoring through the backs as they were a year ago. England have picked an attacking back 3 (or 4 including Tuilagi) beause they want to attack with it, they wont get far reverting to non backs. Where the more consevatve choices have been made that was down to injury and/or horrendous form... Wilko has been passing more than he used to under other coaches, its not just a kick and shove side and thats not the style Johnson wants them playing all the time.
Id be looking to see if Flood and Youngs are back in the groove and hopefuly get them back in...lord knows what theyll do about the pack though really. Just wait for them to wake up I guess and get the balance between agression at the breakdown and conceeding penalties right.
They want to be releasing Ashton Foden and Armitage, but they need to find a way of laying the foundation to do that. You cant chuck the ball out wide or have your wingers wander in to take static possesion against and organised defence. As others have pointed out Foden did have support when he made his break, inluding Ashton.

The underlying point here that they shoudlnt be lookng to replace the best attacking players in the side, but worrying about fixing the problems that are stopping them form getting in the game.

Blah Blah blah.

It isnt the wingers job to get into the game, its the rest of the teams job to get them in it

I can't agree with you there seabiscuit. A top winger will be busy, and go looking for work. One of the things that made Joe Rokocoko such a great wing is that when the ball wasn't coming his way, he'd go looking for it...supporting players, looking for opportunities elsewhere on the field, getting stuck in to tackles, running lines, creating hesitancy in the opposition defensive line and generally giving options to the ball carriers in phase play and the half's from the set piece. It's also about looking for space and communicating with the rest of the back line.

I can't help but notice that when the ball isn't coming Ashton's way regularly, his work rate goes down and he appears to become mentally detached. Sometimes he looks like that uninterested kid who'd rather be in ballet in P.E. who used to drift off from the game and start doing cartwheels under the goal posts in school.

TheGreyGhost wrote:

It isnt the wingers job to get into the game, its the rest of the teams job to get them in it

I can't agree with you there seabiscuit. A top winger will be busy, and go looking for work. One of the things that made Joe Rokocoko such a great wing is that when the ball wasn't coming his way, he'd go looking for it...supporting players, looking for opportunities elsewhere on the field, getting stuck in to tackles, running lines, creating hesitancy in the opposition defensive line and generally giving options to the ball carriers in phase play and the half's from the set piece. It's also about looking for space and communicating with the rest of the back line.

I can't help but notice that when the ball isn't coming Ashton's way regularly, his work rate goes down and he appears to become mentally detached. Sometimes he looks like that uninterested kid who'd rather be in ballet in P.E. who used to drift off from the game and start doing cartwheels under the goal posts in school.

Was that you TGG?