Ulster's First Big Test v Cardiff Blues on Friday

This Friday Ulster face their first really big test this season with the visit of the Blues who have two BP wins to their credit. Ulster will be hoping for a big performance from their forwards with a lot fewer mistakes than against Aironi. Payne will make his debut and IMO should be in the starting 15. These are the games Ulster need to win to ensure they are in pole position when the WC players return.

Ulster should not be satisfied with losing a single home match this season. Blues are a playoff rival and simply must be defeated.



Send out your best XV and win at all costs

Do you think Payne will start?

Seems very soon to have got himself settled, no?

Not even sure when he would have started training.

Should be Blues first big test of the season as well, they'll be full of confidence with two bp wins and being top of the table. Also they will be looking tomake amends for losing twice to Ulster last year.

However Ulster at home should be able to win a tight game. Blues are going better than I expected, (expected wins but maybe only one BP win) but haven't really been tested yet, Ulster are in the same boat, first real test for both.

I'm really glad that Rush decided to stay with the Blues, as getting Muller instead, has made a huge difference to Ulster, more than I think Rush would have done, also Rush isn't at his peak anymore while Muller is, and has a few more years in him than Rush.

Think Ulster will have the better XV for this game, and with home advantage will be favourites, but Blues are capable of an upset.

Think Payne will be on the bench and come on during the game, as don't think he'll be throw in for his first game, against what is our first big test.

These are the games we were winning last year and have to carry on that trend if we are to stay at the same Level, its other games we have to do better in if we are to improve.

Predict close game with an Ulster win.

Agree with Stag, should be winning all home games. I thought our two performances against the Blues were among the best we played last season.
Kingshu, you are right about Rush but it was Piennaar we got after he decided not to come to Ulster. Muller was already coming.

There was some discussion last week whether Gaston should have been playing or at least in the 22 for the Aironi game, possibly at the expense of Witten. It looks like Whitten has settled quickly into the wing position and I would continue with him for the forseeable.
It's difficult to pick up how well a player is performing when listening on the radio but it would seem McAllister struggled in the scrum on Saturday. Should Fitzpatrick start?

Mrs P, Payne trained with the squad and travelled to Italy with them. Given his stature and obvious class I think he will definately feature at some stage. I wouldn't be surprised to see him start.

I thought we got Piennaar, because Peel decided not to come.

My team

1. Paddy Mac
2. Brady
3. Deccie Fitz
4. Tuohy
5. Stevenson
6. Pedrie
7. Faloon
8. Henry
9. Porter
10. Ihumph
11. Gilroy

12. Marshall
13. Cave
14. D'arcy/Gaston
15. Payne

I get you now, we planed to get Mullar, Rush and Peel,
but got Muller, Pedrie Wannenburg and Pienaar, have to say I'm happy with that.

Gald when someone turns us down cos D Humph gets annoyed and goes and gets someone better for the team this year John Afoa for Botha.

I'd drop whitten for this game as with Payne either on bench or staring he covers centre as well if needed.

Cardiff have won their first 4 games of the season and are looking pretty decent. They do lose far too much ball in the ruck, and despite what some elements of their fans think they don't have as good a pack as a lot of other teams. On paper it is decent, but against Treviso it wasn't what it should of been.

I think Ulster will win this game, but the Blues will run them close and test them.

Left Wing Tom James and Full back Chris Czekaj look on deadly form at the moment. Fly Half Gareth Davies is playing well. As well as Prop Sam Hobbs and No8 Andries Pretorius look very good.
I think Dafydd Hewitt and Alex Cuthbert will probably be dropped for the Ulster game.

Cardiff seem to save their best players to come on late in the game and run away with it. Against Treviso they had Tito, Xavier Rush, Richie Rees, Ceri Sweeney and Richard Mustoe coming off the bench to do damage late on.

Alyn, thanks for that synopsis. I have passed the information to the Ulster coaching team who think it will be useful come Friday night

Blues were poor against Treviso, hopefully there forward effort will improve (and the ref will understand the breakdown)

However, some players are really doing well, expect this team,

1. Hobbs (on form)
2. TRThomas (on form)
3. Scott Andrews
4. Deniol Jones
5. Paul Tito
6. Mamma Molitika (played well and cant be dropped - Rush out at 8)
7. Martyn Williams
8. Andreus Pretorious (on form)
9. Richie Rees (off form)
10. Ceri Sweeney (on form)
11. Tom James (excellent form)
12. Daffydd Hewitt
13. Casey Laulaula (will make a big difference to the Blues attack)
14. Richard Mustoe
15. Chris Czechaj (excellent form)

16. Nathan Trevett
17. John Yapp (or if injured, Hartford)
18. Rhys Williams (Gareth Williams if fit)
19. Micheal Paterson
20. Xavier Rush
21. L.Jones
22. Gavin Evans
23. Cuthbert/Robinson/Fish


I expect the Blues to lose and would be happy with a LBP, however, if the Blues can dominate the breakdown, they will stand a chance.

I think the Blues might be trying to play too much pretty rugby, and it might be better if they use their forwards a bit more to balance their play out.
Though on paper they look brilliant with that team.
The rucks have to be sorted out quickly though.

I didn't want to start a whole topic for this point, but just watched the highlights of Scotland match....
Remembered there being talk of danielli losing his starting position this season. i was almost in agreement. But hold on, anyone scoring two tries in any world cup match should be starting at Ulster.
Pity Gilroy/Gaston arnt getting chances during World Cup, because realistically, Danielli is still performing at a high level.

Do we agree?

clive I like Danielli he knows how to finish but the problem is he is inconsistant he could play for Scotland tomorrow and be anonymous

clivemcl wrote:I didn't want to start a whole topic for this point, but just watched the highlights of Scotland match....
Remembered there being talk of danielli losing his starting position this season. i was almost in agreement. But hold on, anyone scoring two tries in any world cup match should be starting at Ulster.
Pity Gilroy/Gaston arnt getting chances during World Cup, because realistically, Danielli is still performing at a high level.

Do we agree?

Gees Clive, talk about turning a positive into a negative. I was excited by Danielli's performance. He looked sharp and took his two tries well and set up another, although he botched up another one.

Gilroy has played twice and scored the other night and Whitten has came in and perfromed really well too.

Its all good and the more competition for places the better

Rodders, i wasn't meaning to appear negative. I just think that whatever your opinion of Scotland, or their opposition. Scoring two tries in a competitive international puts you considerably ahead of our youngsters. It is a good situation to be in though. I expect there to be considerable rotation for Mclaughlin like last season. I'm just not sure it is going to be as big a breakthrough season for some of them as i though a few weeks back.

Don't get me wrong, Gilroy is performing reasonably well. Gaston not getting much a chance. Both really need to maximise whatever opportunity they are given over next two months, because both of them along with Luke, still have a lot to prove.

clivemcl wrote:
Don't get me wrong, Gilroy is performing reasonably well. Gaston not getting much a chance. Both really need to maximise whatever opportunity they are given over next two months, because both of them along with Luke, still have a lot to prove.

They do have a lot to prove, but they have plenty of time to do it. If they are good enough they'll break through and I'm sure there will be chances. We will need a big squad effort to be competitive in both the Magners and HEC as there will be injuries and we also ran out of steam at the end of last season I felt.

It's important that Danielli and the senior players are all in form too as we will need them to be at their very best come the HEC.

How many players will Ulster be missing due to the RWC?

Cardiff missing several but also need to be aware that Edinburgh and Treviso were bit missing most of their first XV. you would still have hoped that Cardiff would have won both games but the missing opposition players may go some way the bonus points.

That said, Blues are trying to play some rugby this year, maybe driven Burnell and Baber wanting to make their own mark in the next month or so when a decision is supposed to be made.

If Blues play in contact area as they did this week they will lose. If they can improve this and maintain improvements in set piece it should be close.

cardiffstu wrote:How many players will Ulster be missing due to the RWC?

Muller, Pienaar, Danielli, Best, Trimble, Court, Wallace, Ferris and Afoa.

cardiffstu wrote:How many players will Ulster be missing due to the RWC?

Cardiff missing several but also need to be aware that Edinburgh and Treviso were bit missing most of their first XV. you would still have hoped that Cardiff would have won both games but the missing opposition players may go some way the bonus points.

That said, Blues are trying to play some rugby this year, maybe driven Burnell and Baber wanting to make their own mark in the next month or so when a decision is supposed to be made.

If Blues play in contact area as they did this week they will lose. If they can improve this and maintain improvements in set piece it should be close.

I wouldnt read too much into the Treviso match, the referee basically let Treviso get away with murder at the rucks and get so many penalties before a yellow in the second half.
You could also throw in the tail end of the hurricane that caused the "tough" Cardiff supporters to scatter like sheep to the back of the ninian stand! Though to be fair I was leading the herd and I'm an Ospreys supporter!
"wtf... why is everyone running towards me? .... OFMG it's rain! run for your lives!" -----> Upper tiers this way!

AlynDavies wrote:
You could also throw in the tail end of the hurricane that caused the "tough" Cardiff supporters to scatter like sheep to the back of the ninian stand! Though to be fair I was leading the herd and I'm an Ospreys supporter!
"wtf... why is everyone running towards me? .... OFMG it's rain! run for your lives!" -----> Upper tiers this way!

I was one of the "tough" supporters! I usually sit about half way back and watching everyone get up thought it was some sort of CAP protest! Brand new stadium with a roof that sucks the rain in.

Ref had no clue at the breakdown, he reffed us last season and was just as bad.

Didn't realise Ulster were missing so many.

Hi - as a neutral it is good to see Darren Cave back fit. I rate that guy. Presumably this game will be on BBC NI or one of the Welsh channels. If so I may have to pop over to my favourite rugby pub in Ealing for it. We have them 'tuned in' to all the rugby via Sky.

Yes Hound, the match will be on BBC2 NI - KO 7.05pm.
I agree its great to see Cave playing well again, though there will be some competition for a starting place among Ulster's backs once the World Cup is over.

Its also on BBC2 Wales

At the minute (by this i mean post rwc) im not sure i would have Danielli in my Ulster squad let alone the team. Thats not an indictment on him at all but rather just putting faith in other within the squad.

Danielli is severely lacking in pace these days and while i think he has been a good servant if their form doesnt drop then Gilroy and D'arcy should be in front of him.

Post rwc:

Court/Paddy Mac, Best, Afoa, Muller, Tuohy, Ferris, Faloon, Wannenburg, Pienaar, iHUmph, Gilroy, Wallace, Cave/Spence, Trimble, Payne

Paddy Mac/Court, Kyriacou, Deccie Fitz, Stevenson, Henry/Diack, Marshall P, Jackson, Spence,D'arcy

Thats not even mentioning Luke Marshall or Conor Gaston never mind Danielli.

Thanks for the TV heads up lads

I try to watch as much rugby as I can. We've had quite a few rugby fans turning up in the pub for Friday night Celtic league games now they know matches are likely to be shown.

With the RWC going on it's a good chance to see some of the young players coming through in the game.

Rava - I was asking some Ulster fans who rocked up at the pub during the HC q/f last season how Cave was doing. They were surprised I had heard of him

15. Chris Czekaj 14. Alex Cuthbert 13. Casey Laulala 12. Gavin Evans 11. Tom James 10. Ceri Sweeney 9. Lewis Jones

8. Xavier Rush 7. Martyn Williams 6. Maama Molitika 5. Paul Tito (c) 4. Michael Paterson 3. Scott Andrews 2. T Rhys Thomas 1. Sam Hobbs

16. Rhys Williams 17. Nathan Trevett 18. James Monck 19. James Down 20. Thomas Young 21. Richie Rees 22. Rhys Patchell 23. Dafydd Hewitt

Starting 15 looks good, replacement props not so strong.

Should be a great game (hopefully). The blues backs look to have found some form and Ulster were great last season.

My only worry...when you see who the ref is, as a blues fan, you do get a bit worried!

Ulster (15-9): J Payne; C Gilroy, D Cave, N Spence, I Whitten; I Humphreys, P Marshall;
(1-8): D Fitzpatrick, A Kyriacou, J Cronin, L Stevenson, D Tuohy, P Wannenburg, C Henry, R Diack;
Replacements (16-23): N Brady, P McAllister, A Macklin, N McComb, M McComish, I Porter, P Jackson, A D'Arcy

So Payne starts. Falloon and Barker out of the 23. Looking forward to this.

Rava wrote:So Payne starts. Falloon and Barker out of the 23. Looking forward to this.

Surprised Payne starts thought he would have come on at some point and be introuced slowly but hes a solid pro so hopefully he'll hit the ground running harsh on D'Arcy hes improved his game immensely since he arrived. Surprised Falloon and Barker miss out as theyre both strong ball carriers and think we might need that against the blues

I'm interested to hear how Stevenson does. Could he be a dark horse to get places for Ulster and Ireland when its Tuohy who is talked up?

I think Tuohy looks more physically dynamic and mobile in fairness Stag.

Really diasppointed to see Luke Marshall and Conor Gaston not in the 23 but its a sign of how competitive we are. Its not as if it is 30 somethings keeping these guys out.

Got to put faith in the coaches on this one. Adam D'arcy is still a must in the squad for me because he covers the back three and really hasnt done anything to be dropped.

Welcome Jared, you'll do well boss!

Good to see Payne start. Surprised to see Deccie Fitz at loose head, wasn't aware he could play there. Is Faloon injured? Not all that cool with Diack at 7.

He does at the minute. But Stevenson was apparently ahead of him when they were both playing in England. There isn't much in terms of age and who's to say how it will pan out.

Stag Tuohy is on fire at the minute.

Disappointed that Faloon doesn't make the 22 but perhaps he's being rested. Good to see Diack get a chance though and it's a long old season. Henry is not a 7 in my opinion.

Young D'arcy is unlucky to be dropped. He's a talented kid and has made a great fist of the fullback role over the past year or so. It's great to see Payne finally here though !

Willie, Falloon isn't injured and Henry is at 7 where he played a few last year. Diack is at 8.

I like that McLaughlin obviously trusts his squad to allow some rotation.
I would be concerned though that Luke Marshall particularly isn't getting into the matchday squad at this stage. I see him as a better 12 than Spence but it looks like he could well be third choice when the World Cup is over. I hope we don't encourage these young fellas to look elsewhere in the future.

Rava Marshall has to earn his spot like everyone else. Spence and Cave are both playing well in the centres. He didn't look that great last week when he came on and it was Spence who set up Gilroys try.

Marshall is only 20(?) and we're only a few games into the season so I don't think we need to panic about him being not getting opportunities just yet. I'm sure the competition is keeping everyone on their toes.

If anyone needs to worry it's Wallace. It looks like he won't get much game time in NZ and when the same thing happened in the 6N he came back well out of sorts. I'd say if he wants to hold down a regular Ulster place for the foreseable future then he might need to think about hanging up his international boots.

roddrs i think we would all love to see Wallace quit Ireland even if its just so we dont get the situation where he is told hes playing 10 for Ulster just in case he is needed to cover there for Ireland

Its a win-win-win situation. Wallace gets more gametime, Ulster get to keep Wallace at 12, Ireland don't have to play Wallace anymore.

Rodders, I would fully expect that Wallace won't be involved at international level after the World Cup but he will still be very keen to get his shirt back at Ulster. He will still be a big influence for us come HC time so it's maybe a good thing that he isn't being overused in NZ

When Marshall hit the scene this time last year he was being looked at as a possible International in a short time. If he is to realize that potential then he needs to be starting games. I'm not saying Spence hasn't performed well because he has but I wouldn't think he is a future 12 for Ireland.

Look we are in a fantastic place at the minute with the depth of talent in the backs. Probably the envy of a few other teams. I'm excited about what we can achieve.

red_stag wrote:Its a win-win-win situation. Wallace gets more gametime, Ulster get to keep Wallace at 12, Ireland don't have to play Wallace anymore.

Stag feic off to the Welsh threads if you're going to start playing games

red_stag wrote:Its a win-win-win situation. Wallace gets more gametime, Ulster get to keep Wallace at 12, Ireland don't have to play Wallace anymore.

Son of a gun!

At least we produce our own international journeymen centres rather than buying them!

I'm only joshing. For what its worth I like Paddy. I'd start him against Australia, Italy and South Africa. Let Darcy take on the Russians.

cardiffstu wrote:15. Chris Czekaj 14. Alex Cuthbert 13. Casey Laulala 12. Gavin Evans 11. Tom James 10. Ceri Sweeney 9. Lewis Jones

8. Xavier Rush 7. Martyn Williams 6. Maama Molitika 5. Paul Tito (c) 4. Michael Paterson 3. Scott Andrews 2. T Rhys Thomas 1. Sam Hobbs

16. Rhys Williams 17. Nathan Trevett 18. James Monck 19. James Down 20. Thomas Young 21. Richie Rees 22. Rhys Patchell 23. Dafydd Hewitt

Starting 15 looks good, replacement props not so strong.

Some odd decisions,

No Pretorious our player of the season.

Cuthbert favoured over Mustoe, who isnt in the 22.

Young on the bench

Who is Monck? Or Patchell?

Its interesting to see Hewitt out of favour with the new management, G.Evans has never impressed me, but Hewitt has.


EDIT - Well, Pretorious is injured which explains that...

W606 - How good is Dan Fish? I though looked promising last season.

Yeus! It's always a good thing when the welsh fans don't even know their own players. We took 5 points off them last season. I'll happily take 4 this time around. Weather at the hill ain't going to be great but hey what's new.

Its actually fuuny that last season Paddy posted on twitter. ''Cave and Spence who should play at center?''
Cave cheekily replied ''both!'

red_stag wrote:W606 - How good is Dan Fish? I though looked promising last season.

He was good, I dont know where he is now - he isnt injured and I think he should be getting some gametime now. :/

WillyGilly wrote:Yeus! It's always a good thing when the welsh fans don't even know their own players. We took 5 points off them last season. I'll happily take 4 this time around. Weather at the hill ain't going to be great but hey what's new.

Actually, I did sort of know Patchell, hes the academy U18 Fly Half (we dont actually have any promising FHs though), Gareth Davies is injured and Parks is with Scotland. If Sweeney gets injured then its BPW for Ulster.

As for the backup prop, I imagine he is a RFC Prop,

He is behind

Gethin Jenkins
John Yapp
Fau Filise
Sam Hobbs
Nathan Trevett
Scott Andrews
and Ryan Hartford

Which is why I hadnt heard of him, since he has never played for us before, he will probably get crushed if he comes off the bench.

I f Wallace (or anyother centrally contracted player) does quit international rugby what happens their contract?

Does the province have to re-negotiate the contract as the central one would be void and he'd have to sign a provinical one.

Does this leave a sitution where a player could reitre from internation rugby (and hence void the central contract) and then hence be a free agent open to offers from any team?

Looking forward to seeing Payne, I love the way Ulster are building at present, after the last about 10 years, its beginging to look really bright for us again, really bright.

at least one h-cup to ravenhill before 2020!