Martin Johnsons future.

by majesticimperialman Thu Oct 13, 2011 5:38 pm

I understand the apaprt from the RFU holding a meeting on Englands conduct in New Zealand , both on and off the field.

Also that Martin Johnson has 2 weeks in which to make his mind up, if he wants to keep the job or not.

If you was in Martin Johnsons shoes right now, what would you choose to do.

(A) try and fight to keep his job.

(B) cut his losses and walk away.

What do you think he should do?

by Cymroglan Thu Oct 13, 2011 5:46 pm

Do it the Welsh way sack him in the car park.

by englandglory4ever Thu Oct 13, 2011 5:49 pm

"What do you think he should do?"

He should think about it and then make a decision.

IMO he should stay unless and only unless the RFU could fill the post with another RWC winning coach or at the very least a coach that has won the 3Ns or a Heineken Cup.

Its only those guys with that sort of track record the RFU should be interested in. Another 'may be' type is just another gamble.

by player1 Thu Oct 13, 2011 5:55 pm

I think there needs to be a big mix up in the English camp ,,
But keep johnson as forwards coach ..

by mystiroakey Thu Oct 13, 2011 5:58 pm

stick with an english coach- i dont buy into getting forign managers for any international sporting team.

it seems to have worked for wales.

but - especially with the english phsche- we really need someone seriously passionate and motivated to keep our guys on track. however maybe a saffa would do it - plenty of them with english heritage feel english anyway

by mystiroakey Thu Oct 13, 2011 5:58 pm

mystiroakey wrote:stick with english coachs and manager- i dont buy into getting forign managers for any international sporting team.

it seems to have worked for wales.

but - especially with the english phsche- we really need someone seriously passionate and motivated to keep our guys on track. however maybe a saffa would do it - plenty of them with english heritage feel english anyway

by gelodge Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:00 pm

Maybe they could blackmail Guy Noves into the role

by Cymroglan Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:03 pm

First of all a proper coach needs to be at the helm somebody that has extensive coaching experience but this person does not necessarily need have coached at International level.

by englandglory4ever Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:07 pm

Cymroglan wrote:First of all a proper coach needs to be at the helm somebody that has extensive coaching experience but this person does not necessarily need have coached at International level.

Oh yes he does ol' china.

by Cymroglan Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:08 pm

Why ?

by Runster Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:10 pm

I see Martyn Thomas is saying "This time we do it right. We wasted a lot of time sins 2003 because if we had got it right then, as a minimum, we would be in the final here at this Cup...."

and

"..for a union our size, I cannot accept we are ever out of the top three".

A little humility in defeat wouldn't go amiss. No pressure on MJs replacement, then!

by englandglory4ever Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:14 pm

Why? We already have a coach with 3 years international experience. We've had Ashton, Robinson. What's the point in appointing another coach with no proven track record at the highest levels in the game? They would be open to the same old criticisms as all the other 'maybe good enough' types.

We need a top ranked big hitter and then there can be no arguments.

by Cymroglan Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:17 pm

MJ took on the job with no coaching experience and thats the point I'm making.
Being a good player is one thing but being a coach thats able to come up with fresh ideas is another story.

by englandglory4ever Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:20 pm

MJ had no experience 3 years ago that's true. But would we call that a blue print for good practice? Hardly. One thing the RFU does have and that's a load of money. They should spend some to get the best available in the world.

by player1 Thu Oct 13, 2011 7:34 pm

i think the players lack of respect for there coach ,, and for themselfs on and off pitch got them where they are today ,,, Sat at home watching on tele ...

by Dai Tryin Thu Oct 13, 2011 7:39 pm

[quote="Cymroglan"]Do it the Welsh way sack him in the car park. [/quote

Sack him in the nuts!

by DaveM Thu Oct 13, 2011 8:54 pm

It looks like the RFU have finally realised that major change is necessary. I can't see how MJ can survive the Cotton review, so I'd expect him to resign (probably with the rest of the coaches following). This gives an opportunity to put in a coaching team for the next four years. Brian Moore's suggestion of Kirwan, Ryan, Healey, Edwards looks pretty good to me (probably with Rowntree back as the scrum coach). I also think Brendan Venter would do a really good job as head coach.

I've seen some comments that the squad is better than 4 years ago. Yes that's true, but the raw material is much better too and yet the team performances just haven't shown the consistent improvement there should have been.

by player1 Thu Oct 13, 2011 8:58 pm

I reckon England get ,, Ant & Dec in they will do better than tweedle dee and tweedle dum ..

by **Ozzy3213** Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:04 pm

very insightful player1, thanks for that!

by player1 Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:06 pm

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:23 pm

mystiroakey wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:stick with english coachs and manager- i dont buy into getting forign managers for any international sporting team.

it seems to have worked for wales.

but - especially with the english phsche- we really need someone seriously passionate and motivated to keep our guys on track. however maybe a saffa would do it - plenty of them with english heritage feel english anyway

Self-quotation - a bit like public masturbation? Wink

by player1 Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:26 pm

This kind of thing always happens when a major team gets put out of anything big im sure England will bounce back to the top in the future ..
Its just our turn for now ,,
So sit back and enjoy ...

by player1 Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:27 pm

player1 wrote:This kind of thing always happens when a major team gets put out of anything big im sure England will bounce back to the top in the future ..
Its just our turn for now ,,
So sit back and enjoy ...

God knows we have waited long enough Very Happy

by player1 Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:29 pm

Cymroglan wrote:Do it the Welsh way sack him in the car park.

by englandglory4ever Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:33 am

player1 wrote:i think the players lack of respect for there coach ,, and for themselfs on and off pitch got them where they are today ,,, Sat at home watching on tele ...

You listen to the media too intently. They even say the Welsh team are teetotal which Gatland has refuted. Grow up and don't be so gullible in future. You'll be a better person for it believe me.

by player1 Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:11 pm

englandglory4ever wrote:
player1 wrote:i think the players lack of respect for there coach ,, and for themselfs on and off pitch got them where they are today ,,, Sat at home watching on tele ...

You listen to the media too intently. They even say the Welsh team are teetotal which Gatland has refuted. Grow up and don't be so gullible in future. You'll be a better person for it believe me.

Theres a diffrence between 1 or 2 beers after the game ,,, And all the things England got up too ,, Remember the world is watching So act like grown ups not teenagers on a stag do .....

by Dai Tryin Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:32 pm

englandglory4ever wrote:
player1 wrote:i think the players lack of respect for there coach ,, and for themselfs on and off pitch got them where they are today ,,, Sat at home watching on tele ...

You listen to the media too intently. They even say the Welsh team are teetotal which Gatland has refuted. Grow up and don't be so gullible in future. You'll be a better person for it believe me.

Wow an Englishmun giving advice on behaviour and self improvement.
Are you really that limited that you would try and defend this disgraced excuse of a team!!???
Try to get an objective view, you'll be a less bitter person for it believe me.

by nathan Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:39 pm

Dai Tryin wrote:
englandglory4ever wrote:
player1 wrote:i think the players lack of respect for there coach ,, and for themselfs on and off pitch got them where they are today ,,, Sat at home watching on tele ...

You listen to the media too intently. They even say the Welsh team are teetotal which Gatland has refuted. Grow up and don't be so gullible in future. You'll be a better person for it believe me.

Wow an Englishmun giving advice on behaviour and self improvement.
Are you really that limited that you would try and defend this disgraced excuse of a team!!???
Try to get an objective view, you'll be a less bitter person for it believe me.

i think he was trying to say that they were not as bad as the media reported. Which i don't think they were!

What the hell is the bolded comment all about?

by Gatts Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:40 pm

Dai Tryin wrote:
englandglory4ever wrote:
player1 wrote:i think the players lack of respect for there coach ,, and for themselfs on and off pitch got them where they are today ,,, Sat at home watching on tele ...

You listen to the media too intently. They even say the Welsh team are teetotal which Gatland has refuted. Grow up and don't be so gullible in future. You'll be a better person for it believe me.

Wow an Englishmun giving advice on behaviour and self improvement.
Are you really that limited that you would try and defend this disgraced excuse of a team!!???
Try to get an objective view, you'll be a less bitter person for it believe me.

Media? Yep I listened to the media interview with Mark McCafferty (that's the prem chief Hersh) who admitted that he had actually apologised to the NZRFU for the behaviour of the English players.

by player1 Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:42 pm

englandglory4ever wrote:
player1 wrote:i think the players lack of respect for there coach ,, and for themselfs on and off pitch got them where they are today ,,, Sat at home watching on tele ...

You listen to the media too intently. They even say the Welsh team are teetotal which Gatland has refuted. Grow up and don't be so gullible in future. You'll be a better person for it believe me.

But your still in the News even a week after loosing and going home ,, for all the wrong reasons nobody is talking rugby ,, Just things England did wrong and Fines maybe to much booze made them do silly things like wear the wrong rwc kit ?

by nathan Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:55 pm

player1 wrote:
englandglory4ever wrote:
player1 wrote:i think the players lack of respect for there coach ,, and for themselfs on and off pitch got them where they are today ,,, Sat at home watching on tele ...

You listen to the media too intently. They even say the Welsh team are teetotal which Gatland has refuted. Grow up and don't be so gullible in future. You'll be a better person for it believe me.
But your still in the News even a week after loosing and going home ,, for all the wrong reasons nobody is talking rugby ,, Just things England did wrong and Fines maybe to much booze made them do silly things like wear the wrong rwc kit ?

are you seriously saying that certain rugby players wearing the wrong gum guards was because they were drunk the night before? Do you think they go out shopping for them late at night after a few beers? lol

by tomathy Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:07 pm

nathan wrote:
are you seriously saying that certain rugby players wearing the wrong gum guards was because they were drunk the night before?

Dai Tryin wrote:
Wow an Englishmun giving advice on behaviour and self improvement.
Are you really that limited that you would try and defend this disgraced excuse of a team!!???
Try to get an objective view, you'll be a less bitter person for it believe me.

It's beyond pathetic that you would say English people are all somehow involved in the off-field problems at the world cup. In any case, the poster just suggested that the media have overreacted.

by player1 Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:11 pm

All teams are given what to wear in RWC ,,, Theres none of these are my lucky shorts or this fits me better nonsence ,, England could not stick to the rules and are paying the price for it ,, As in most sports ...

by Dai Tryin Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:12 pm

Grow up and don't be so gullible in future. You'll be a better person for it believe me.[/quote]

This is what I took exception to and yes I over re-acted but my point still remains it is absurd to try and suggest that the media mis-represented England somehow.

by player1 Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:17 pm

tomathy wrote:
nathan wrote:
are you seriously saying that certain rugby players wearing the wrong gum guards was because they were drunk the night before?

Dai Tryin wrote:
Wow an Englishmun giving advice on behaviour and self improvement.
Are you really that limited that you would try and defend this disgraced excuse of a team!!???
Try to get an objective view, you'll be a less bitter person for it believe me.

It's beyond pathetic that you would say English people are all somehow involved in the off-field problems at the world cup. In any case, the poster just suggested that the media have overreacted.

All teams are given what to wear in RWC ,,, Theres none of these are my lucky shorts or this fits me better nonsence ,, England could not stick to the rules and are paying the price for it ,, As in most sports ...

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:26 pm

player1 wrote:
tomathy wrote:
nathan wrote:
are you seriously saying that certain rugby players wearing the wrong gum guards was because they were drunk the night before?

Dai Tryin wrote:
Wow an Englishmun giving advice on behaviour and self improvement.
Are you really that limited that you would try and defend this disgraced excuse of a team!!???
Try to get an objective view, you'll be a less bitter person for it believe me.

It's beyond pathetic that you would say English people are all somehow involved in the off-field problems at the world cup. In any case, the poster just suggested that the media have overreacted.
All teams are given what to wear in RWC ,,, Theres none of these are my lucky shorts or this fits me better nonsence ,, England could not stick to the rules and are paying the price for it ,, As in most sports ...

Manu was given his mouthguard by England (the one he was fined for wearing)

by player1 Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:29 pm

[quote="Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler"]

player1 wrote:
tomathy wrote:
nathan wrote:
are you seriously saying that certain rugby players wearing the wrong gum guards was because they were drunk the night before?

Dai Tryin wrote:
Wow an Englishmun giving advice on behaviour and self improvement.
Are you really that limited that you would try and defend this disgraced excuse of a team!!???
Try to get an objective view, you'll be a less bitter person for it believe me.

It's beyond pathetic that you would say English people are all somehow involved in the off-field problems at the world cup. In any case, the poster just suggested that the media have overreacted.
All teams are given what to wear in RWC ,,, Theres none of these are my lucky shorts or this fits me better nonsence ,, England could not stick to the rules and are paying the price for it ,, As in most sports ...[/quote well it just goes to show that Johnson dosent know what he doing and should get the sack

Manu was given his mouthguard by England (the one he was fined for wearing)

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:29 pm

nathan wrote:
player1 wrote:
englandglory4ever wrote:
player1 wrote:i think the players lack of respect for there coach ,, and for themselfs on and off pitch got them where they are today ,,, Sat at home watching on tele ...

You listen to the media too intently. They even say the Welsh team are teetotal which Gatland has refuted. Grow up and don't be so gullible in future. You'll be a better person for it believe me.
But your still in the News even a week after loosing and going home ,, for all the wrong reasons nobody is talking rugby ,, Just things England did wrong and Fines maybe to much booze made them do silly things like wear the wrong rwc kit ?

are you seriously saying that certain rugby players wearing the wrong gum guards was because they were drunk the night before? Do you think they go out shopping for them late at night after a few beers? lol

If that were the case then how come more aussies and new zealnders havent been caught out in gumgate? Seems a few of them have drink issues.

Having sai dthat some of tehm probably were, apparently theres been a large number of players fined for this ...just only the england players and the Samoan Twit who the papers deemed worthy of splashing all over their backpages on a slow news day.

by Cymroglan Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:30 pm

Lock Courtney Lawes has become the third England player to be sanctioned for wearing a branded mouthguard at the World Cup. Lawes, who was banned for two matches for striking Argentina hooker Mario Ledesma with his knee, has been fined £5,000.

I have not followed this the gum shield saga so what have they actually done wrong ?

by player1 Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:31 pm

[quote="player1"]

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:
player1 wrote:
tomathy wrote:
nathan wrote:
are you seriously saying that certain rugby players wearing the wrong gum guards was because they were drunk the night before?

Dai Tryin wrote:
Wow an Englishmun giving advice on behaviour and self improvement.
Are you really that limited that you would try and defend this disgraced excuse of a team!!???
Try to get an objective view, you'll be a less bitter person for it believe me.

It's beyond pathetic that you would say English people are all somehow involved in the off-field problems at the world cup. In any case, the poster just suggested that the media have overreacted.
All teams are given what to wear in RWC ,,, Theres none of these are my lucky shorts or this fits me better nonsence ,, England could not stick to the rules and are paying the price for it ,, As in most sports ...[/quote well it just goes to show that Johnson dosent know what he doing and should get the sack

Manu was given his mouthguard by England (the one he was fined for wearing)

well it just goes to show that Johnson dosent know what he doing and should get the sack
and there was a fine for courtney lawes today wasnt there

by formerly known as Sam Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:39 pm

well it just goes to show that Johnson dosent know what he doing and should get the sack

Because it's his job to check all the players equipment before they go and play? He's the squad manager not a nanny, I fail to see that much wrong in what they did, one night out after a game? Shock horror, the humanity! Frankly the only two incidents they need to apologise for are Haskell's immaturity and the limp first 40 minutes against France.

by tomathy Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:41 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:
well it just goes to show that Johnson dosent know what he doing and should get the sack

Because it's his job to check all the players equipment before they go and play? He's the squad manager not a nanny, I fail to see that much wrong in what they did, one night out after a game? Shock horror, the humanity! Frankly the only two incidents they need to apologise for are Haskell's immaturity and the limp first 40 minutes against France.

I agree, although Tindall lying about how long he went out for wasn't impressive either.

by tomathy Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:45 pm

Dai Tryin wrote:Grow up and don't be so gullible in future. You'll be a better person for it believe me.

This is what I took exception to and yes I over re-acted but my point still remains it is absurd to try and suggest that the media mis-represented England somehow.[/quote]

how? It has been suggested on this thread that a lot of players have been fined for the mouthguard incidents, but that it's just the English ones making the paper (and Alessana Tuilagi). If that's true then it's a clear case of media hysteria against the England team.

by player1 Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:49 pm

england got themselfs to blame

by player1 Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:57 pm

player1 wrote:england got themselfs to blame

Its not just about my gaurds is it the whole out fit was a sham and an embaresment

by Dai Tryin Fri Oct 14, 2011 2:03 pm

Oh Tomathy .......REALLY
do you really need me to point out Englands deficiencies during this world cup, I dont believe you do.

Good luck in the future,

Adieu..

by tomathy Fri Oct 14, 2011 2:15 pm

Dai Tryin wrote:Oh Tomathy .......REALLY
do you really need me to point out Englands deficiencies during this world cup, I dont believe you do.

Good luck in the future,

Adieu..

I don't pretend that England have been faultless off the field during the tournament. That doesn't mean that the media haven't overreacted to it, and mis-represented particular incidents.

by Dai Tryin Fri Oct 14, 2011 2:28 pm

no smoke without fire

by player1 Fri Oct 14, 2011 2:31 pm

Dai Tryin wrote:no smoke without fire

well said

by formerly known as Sam Fri Oct 14, 2011 2:35 pm

True they certainly weren't angelic but the papers were well over the top, for instance the England team were ridiculed for going bungey jumping ('it's dangerous', 'why aren't they training') yet the Welsh team go quad biking and not a word is mentioned. Just sensationalism by Journo's who found the England rugby team an easy target because of their previous successes.

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