How much will his personality hurt Floyd's legacy!!!

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 31 Oct 2011, 4:48 pm

Simple question...We all know Merchant hates him as he did Camacho.....Majority of old historians rated Dempsey higher than Johnson probably because he was a more engaging personality....

We all know it's hard to separate the fighter from the Man....

Tyson for me should be a top 10 heavy (well around ten anyway)...But he his kind of disrespected mainly due to his unloving persona.....

People we don't like we sometimes find any reason we can to put them down....

I think Floyd is a top 10 alltime fighter but I believe he won't get the accolade mainly because of his personality....I don't have to list his achievements..

How much will Floyd's personality affect his legacy!! Sure it has to!!

by Scottrf Mon 31 Oct 2011, 4:49 pm

I think his lack of activity and missing what would be the biggest fight of his career hurts him more.

by **Fists of Fury** Mon 31 Oct 2011, 4:51 pm

Agree with you scott. Far too inactive, took the safe option far too often, and acted like an ass to go with it. Top 20, for me.

by **oxring** Mon 31 Oct 2011, 4:51 pm

Moved this Truss - thought an interesting topic belongs on the main thread, rather than in the bowels of trash talk

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 31 Oct 2011, 4:53 pm

You think he needs Manny...Scotty?????

Think he has enough achievements now.....

Just that obnoxious types aren't appreciated as much in my opinion..(I appreciate you though)

Champ for over a decade at six or so weights....P4ers on his record....

Record wise he stacks up..with any low top 10 types.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 31 Oct 2011, 4:55 pm

Hagler fought twice in his last two and a half years....

Leonard was sporadic at the end...

Seems these guy get cut more slack..

by **Fists of Fury** Mon 31 Oct 2011, 4:56 pm

Probably because they had some much bigger names on their records, Truss.

Floyd's is good, no doubt, but not in that league.

by **88Chris05** Mon 31 Oct 2011, 4:57 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:How much will Floyd's personality affect his legacy!! Sure it has to!!

I think you're right, Trussman. Mayweather's brash and cocky persona will harm his legacy in the eyes of some, though it shouldn't.

I think you can pretty much guarantee that if he were more 'humble', he'd be more appreciated than he is now. I'll stress that I'm talking about only a small minority here; most boxing fans can differentiate between the fighter and the man, and will give someone a fair assessment regardless of what they think of them on a personal level.

But there is little doubt that some are incapable of this. I'm pretty sure that ESPN wouldn't have been pathetic enough to publicly call Mayweather a 'coward' if he had a personality which mirrored Shane Mosley's, for instance, and I'm equally sure that the casual boxing fan or 'man on the street' would be more willing to look past the 'ducker' tag which so many are throwing at him these days. The lack of a fight with Pacquiao is one thing, but I've literally heard and seen some Mayweather critics coming out with tosh of the highest order when it comes to this issue, ranging from him apparently ducking Felix Trinidad (no word of a lie) to ducking a rematch with Hatton, which he'd obviously have lost had it been at 140 lb and with anyone other than Joe Cortez refereeing.

That said, Mayweather does give people a reason to dislike him, and given how it's harmed the legacies of a few fighters who have gone before, he maybe should know better. But as I said, while it shouldn't detract from him as a prize fighter, it inevitably will in some cases, even if they are in the minority.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 31 Oct 2011, 5:00 pm

What gets me is that the guy beat p4p greats in Marquez, Mosley and dela Hoya...Quality names galore and yet fists is saying his record isn't that great.....

Duran's better is it??????...

and don't chuck a close decision and a no mas against Leonard at me...

by Scottrf Mon 31 Oct 2011, 5:01 pm

Yeah I do. As long as he is linked with Pacquiao he can only separate himself as the definitive best of the era by beating him, will hurt his standing.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 31 Oct 2011, 5:01 pm

Good post Chris...very true I believe the reason Arcel and the rest wouldn't recognise Ali as great is because of his mouth....

Personality like it or not does affect popularity and future standing..

by skidd1 Mon 31 Oct 2011, 5:02 pm

I think it will affect how he is regarded by those who watch him now but ultimately it wont make that much difference
Long term I think you forget fighters shortcomings as people.It hardly gets mentioned that Hagler could be right grumpy and awkward out of the ring
Far more seriously Carlos Monzon appears to get off scott free with some exceptionally unsavoury character traits
The lack of activity spoils his legacy for me rather than the arrogance.Class fighter of the era for me

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 31 Oct 2011, 5:03 pm

There isn't a fighter who hasn't been accused of ducking......

Manny has been found out in his career....Marquez and Morales.....

Don't think it affects Mayweather that much...He got sack all credit for an unbeaten Hatton did he..

by Scottrf Mon 31 Oct 2011, 5:07 pm

Not a blueprint to beat him etc. The losses were ages ago, and his stock has rocketed since. Pacquiao is on a great run and would be Mayweather's best win.

When did Hatton top the P4P list? He got plenty of credit for that win too.

by bellchees Mon 31 Oct 2011, 5:08 pm

Him being a tool will harm his legacy for now but the further past his retirement time goes the more it will be forgotten. I think that what will hurt it more is the lack of top names on his record that should be there, talent wise he is a top ten guy for me. Best ever at Super Featherweight and a real hard nights work for anyone up to Welterweight.

by **oxring** Mon 31 Oct 2011, 5:15 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:There isn't a fighter who hasn't been accused of ducking......

Manny has been found out in his career....Marquez and Morales.....

Don't think it affects Mayweather that much...He got sack all credit for an unbeaten Hatton did he..

Disagree. Would be a brave man to suggest that Manny hasn't improved. Furthermore - Manny will be rated in years to come for the incredible things he has done across a lot of weights.

Vivek Wallace, over on eastside always says when indulging in his favourite sport of Pacbashing - that Manny can't be rated as that great because he hasn't proved he's the best of his generation at his weight by failing to fight Floyd. Now Vivek is one of the biggest Mayweather fans around - so we'll have to excuse him - but the knife cuts 2 ways. If Manny's resume is hurt by the absence of Floyd - Floyd's is also hurt by the absence of Manny.

I'd say Floyd suffers more, for me - because his resume isn't quite as strong as Manny's.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 31 Oct 2011, 5:17 pm

Did he get much credit????

Hatton was a p4per.......though all I heard was well Hatton had always struggled at welter...he was really a light welter etc .....

Same kind of excuse as the one aimed at Tommy when he was on a .....roll.

by AlexHuckerby Mon 31 Oct 2011, 5:19 pm

its not i think he NEEDS a pacman win on his cv but the lack of that fight for me attracts more question marks such as, the greatest fighter of his era? hurts much more than his personality in my eyes.

but you do get the guys who are biased and refuse him because they dont like him.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 31 Oct 2011, 5:23 pm

If he's not the greatest fighter of his era who is......

Unbeaten for 11 years at the top.....ring titles..titles at six weights etc....p4pers on his record..

No competition.......

His personality is what will hurt him...and it's sad.

by AlexHuckerby Mon 31 Oct 2011, 5:31 pm

think theres this phillipino with a cute beard that has a shout...

EDIT: I love that this is my 2000th post

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 31 Oct 2011, 5:34 pm

10-1-1 and a loss to Morales rules him out!!!!

Don't like guys that use catchweight as a way of screwing people..

by AlexHuckerby Mon 31 Oct 2011, 5:41 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:10-1-1 and a loss to Morales rules him out!!!!

Don't like guys that use catchweight as a way of screwing people..

im guessing you feel sorry for poor little marquez then when he fought floyd at catchweight and then didnt even abide by it himself?

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 31 Oct 2011, 5:43 pm

I agree but Marquez was the exception.....

I appreciate your opinion.....but I don't see Manny as being as high as Floyd..

Oscar was at 154 when he fought Floyd.....Floyd was disadvantaged..great win..

by AlexHuckerby Mon 31 Oct 2011, 5:47 pm

whilst i agree its tough and you have to bear in mind manny has lost we surely have to agree that manny is the toughest fight of his career on paper at least and not fighting him hurts him more than some silly comments?

by TopHat24/7 Mon 31 Oct 2011, 6:00 pm

The absence of Manny (the onyl clear and present challenge to Floyd's greatness) does more harm than his personality.

A lot of people thought Ali was an obnoxious c*ck but, even if we did warm to him with hindsight, he's still rated #1/2 ever heavyweight. There have been plenty of better examples than that I'm sure (someone mentioned Monzon already) but constantly bragging about how your the best, whilst simultaneously refusing to engage with your best challenger (rightly or wrongly) will always be the greatest legacy question mark.

I for one would bet on Floyd UD at 147 if it did ever happen, as many would, which makes it even more silly. And I don't think you can laud his JMM win, encouraging a great to come in bloated for a catchweight (something Manny gets unanimously criticised for) which you pay no attention to yourself? That score zero 'greatness' points.

by AlexHuckerby Mon 31 Oct 2011, 6:04 pm

i would also point out that if those two did fight i would back floyd to the hilt.

by Rowley Mon 31 Oct 2011, 6:06 pm

As others have said the failure to fight the only guy in your weight who most consider to be a genuine threat is the thing that really hurts his legacy. Floyd does not have anywhere near as bad a record as many would like to point out, Hatton, Mosley and DLH were all good wins as were the likes of Corralles and Castillo some years ago however the Manny thing really hurts him, as Top hat has alluded to if you constantly boast about being the best is perhaps inevitable people will call on you to prove it and a failure to do so will perhaps see you more harshly judged than if you were a little more humble.

by Scottrf Mon 31 Oct 2011, 6:22 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:10-1-1 and a loss to Morales rules him out!!!!

Don't like guys that use catchweight as a way of screwing people..

Floyd had a catchweight vs Marquez...and then didn't make the weight.

by AlexHuckerby Mon 31 Oct 2011, 6:25 pm

Scottrf wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:10-1-1 and a loss to Morales rules him out!!!!

Don't like guys that use catchweight as a way of screwing people..
Floyd had a catchweight vs Marquez...and then didn't make the weight.

think i maybe said this already...
but use my arguments whenever you feel.

by Scottrf Mon 31 Oct 2011, 6:29 pm

Didn't read every post but wouldn't have used it if I knew you did, I'll end up giving you credibility.

by AlexHuckerby Mon 31 Oct 2011, 6:42 pm

Scottrf wrote:Didn't read every post but wouldn't have used it if I knew you did, I'll end up giving you credibility.

cheers mate feel appreciated now.

by Waingro Mon 31 Oct 2011, 6:45 pm

Mayweather is very popular I think he is alot more popular than people think and everybody thinks he is quality if he beats Pacquoia he deserves to be top ten.

by AlexHuckerby Mon 31 Oct 2011, 6:55 pm

Waingro wrote:Mayweather is very popular I think he is alot more popular than people think and everybody thinks he is quality if he beats Pacquoia he deserves to be top ten.

waingro do you think this fight should happen?

*on edge of seat*

by Waingro Mon 31 Oct 2011, 6:59 pm

AlexHuckerby wrote:
Waingro wrote:Mayweather is very popular I think he is alot more popular than people think and everybody thinks he is quality if he beats Pacquoia he deserves to be top ten.

waingro do you think this fight should happen?

*on edge of seat*

Should have happened already imo not sure it will happen though I dont think both guys really want to fight

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 31 Oct 2011, 7:24 pm

So the fact Manny hasn't fought Floyd will no doubt mean his legacy is hurt too then..right!!

Hagler didn't want a Hearns rematch........Duran never fancied Hearns again....Leonard never fancied Pryor....

But we'll just pick on Floyd...

by Scottrf Mon 31 Oct 2011, 7:28 pm

This thread isn't about Pacquiao's legacy, it will hurt him too.

by **88Chris05** Mon 31 Oct 2011, 7:29 pm

Truss, as you're an intelligent fella I'm sure you can see (deep, deep down, maybe) that the Mayweather-Pacquiao situation is different to those listed, namely because Hagler-Hearns and Duran-Hearns at least happened once, and because Pryor and Leonard were never operating in the same weight class.

In the case of Mayweather-Pacquiao, we have the two best pound for pound fighters in the sport, who also happen to be the two biggest stars in the sport. They have both been actively fighting in the same weight class for around two and a half of years, and have at times fought mutual opponents within a short time of each other. Given all of that, the fact that they are yet to fight is, quite frankly, a bit of a joke.

Doesn't change the fact that Mayweather - and Pacquiao, for that matter - is a true great, but to say that the fight never happening would not be harmful to their legacies is ridiculous.

by **oxring** Mon 31 Oct 2011, 7:31 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:So the fact Manny hasn't fought Floyd will no doubt mean his legacy is hurt too then..right!

Check my post Truss - I agree entirely. Wallace always attacks Manny for not fighting Floyd and for me it affects them both a little.

by Scottrf Mon 31 Oct 2011, 7:34 pm

88Chris05 wrote:Truss, as you're an intelligent fella

Spoiler:

by AlexHuckerby Mon 31 Oct 2011, 7:36 pm

was about to write the exact same thing chris!!

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 31 Oct 2011, 7:43 pm

It's about money and the steroid tests....Or are you suggesting Floyd is a coward...

Sure Floyd could've avoided Oscar at 154 or an unbeaten Hatton....

Manny has been beaten hasn't he??????

Duran got squashed and then called for Hagler or Leonard...Didn't he want to avenge his most shocking defeat...No but that's ok...

Leave it out..

Keep it clean Scotty..

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 31 Oct 2011, 7:46 pm

I appreciate your opinions fellas but you seem to be one sided over who's to blame over Floyd and Manny...

If they don't fight they have great legacies anyway...Just BS to keep modern fighters down..

I don't wear that much lipstick usually scotty..

by AlexHuckerby Mon 31 Oct 2011, 7:48 pm

but manny did want to avenge his defeat and draw and he did...

oscar was a great win but equalled by mannys win over cotto or if you dont want that pick barerra?

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 31 Oct 2011, 7:51 pm

BS Barrera was a jr feather and past it.........and I had Marquez winning twice..

Facts are great things but I imagine DelaHoya at 154!!!! is a better win than a twice slapped off Junior Jones and slightly past it Barrera....

by aka Mon 31 Oct 2011, 7:59 pm

not much in my opinion, his conquests over the last 10 years+ far outway his (bad) attitude and personality, and in time will quitely be forgotten about.

The fella is pure and simply class, professional in the ring, gets the job done and cannot be questioned, i dont think his outbursts affect a great deal

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 31 Oct 2011, 8:01 pm

Interesting opinion.. in direct opposition to so many....

cheers...hope you are right..

by manos de piedra Mon 31 Oct 2011, 8:01 pm

Barrera was rated the pound for pound number three in the world and had beaten unbeaten Hamed and unbeaten Morales since his losses to Junior Jones. Be reasonable, its a far better win than Mayweathers over De la Hoya.

by AlexHuckerby Mon 31 Oct 2011, 8:05 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:BS Barrera was a jr feather and past it.........and I had Marquez winning twice..

Facts are great things but I imagine DelaHoya at 154!!!! is a better win than a twice slapped off Junior Jones and slightly past it Barrera....

youre picking and choosing when to use things in your favour a bit here...

your sven ottke article suggested that it doesnt matter as long as you get the win yet you use it against manny here. and you could for arguements sake throw that at floyd with castillo...

barrera past it? second time around i agree, first... no. de la hoya was beaten at lower weights before and dont think he was a natural LMW myself! and even the golden boy himself admits he was past it at that stage how old was he again? however it was still a fantastic win, cotto had been beaten once pre-pac how many times had de la hoya?

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 31 Oct 2011, 8:06 pm

lost to Junior Jones twice and no body moans about the rankings more than you....Everybody thought he was finished before Naz...

Nobody moans about the rankings more than you..

Unless it suits..

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 31 Oct 2011, 8:08 pm

I don't rate the Cotto win...He was battered off Marg.....

Morales and Barrera had been exposed....

Don't tell me beating any of those is the same as going into DelaHoya's 154 zone and beating him!!!!

by Sponsored content