Martin Johnson quits...

First topic message reminder :

... RFU Statement due any time now

Part of me wants MJ to turn round and pop the little turd on the nose.

Sir tidycrhis

Agree Rob Andrew has to go.

Scrum halves 2007 - Peter Richards,Andy Gomarsall and Shaun Perry.

LondonTiger MJ had a better squad than his predecessors were left. This is because the England U20s have been performing much better.

No the progress is because the quality of the players churned out is getting better.

Knowsit Got to laugh sorry.

Yes MJ isn't the entire problem. Part of me feels sorry for him but ultimately he should have kept tighter reins.

A kick in the goolies would be more realistic,given the mess he inherited wonder if ANY Coach would have done better.

I'm a bit torn by the decision - felt there were positives and negatives to his reign. On the positive side we won the 6N this year, had a couple of great results against Aus and generally played the best we have since 2003.

On the negative side his team selections often left a lot to be desired. Flood at IC for the France game was just one example but his insistence to pick Wilkinson when he obviously couldn't get the back line moving in the group games was just plain wrong. Even back in 2010 during the 6N everyone was crying out for the inform Flood, Ashton & Foden but he stuck with Wilkinson, Armitage & Monye until the last game against France when England showed more attaching intent in the first 10 minutes than they had in the previous 4 matches combined.

His loyalty to Borthwick in particular was just baffling, almost like he wouldn't admit he was wrong and he must take some of the blame for not controlling the players better in NZ. I know the media were well over the top but he, along with other senior players, should have taken this into account and ensured the players kept a very low profile. The one thing that worries me about the NZ antics is that if MJ couldn't keep the childish players under control them who will be able to?

Watching the press conference, MJ is coming out of this mess as a thoroughly decent, honest and honourable man. RA is coming across as a devious, turdy little question dodger.

he is getting a pasting though - good to see....

cabbagesandbrussels wrote: RA is coming across as a devious, turdy little question dodger.

As he is the Godfather of my baby brother - should I be worried about my brother's moral wellbeing?

Rob always wanted to be a tory politician

I am watching the press conference at mo.

MJ has shouldered the blame (whether real or not) entirely on his own shoulders, defended the RFU and Rob Andrew (as you know he would of) and is trying to explain why he has decided what he has.

Whereas Rob is being quite defensive with one word replies to the press.

One thing appears apparent is that Squeeky is going to get off scot free. 4 more years of this weasel... god help us.

Rob Andrew is a right smug little barstard

Rob Andrew really is looking like a fool through all of this. I have always admire MJ and he is manning up whilst RA dives for cover.

The thing is though, will England be able to attract a top coach whilst RA is pulling the strings? They are not foolish.

What i fear for England is that you will attract managers looking for a quick buck and have no passion for English rugby. They will laugh all the way to the bank and RA will duck and dive all again.

RA is a huge problem for English Rugby going forward.

The press are going after squeeky now and he is back peddling big time.

Actually he is getting quite condescending to them now.

They seem to be leaving Johnno alone and he seems to be coming out of this press conference with respect & dignity. Top bloke.

DOD wrote:Yes a really sad day....

Deaglan is still a bit sensitive because MJ's refusal to back down in 2003 meant that some old Irish biddy had to get her shoes a bit muddy.

Let it go fella! I'm sure she has forgiven him....

Metal Tiger wrote:The press are going after squeeky now and he is back peddling big time.

Actually he is getting quite condescending to them now.
They seem to be leaving Johnno alone and he seems to be coming out of this press conference with respect & dignity. Top bloke.

Yeah im getting that aswell....

oh he's getting a pasting!

I'm gutted as he is a giant of late 20th early 21st century rugby. However objectively he's lost the respect and control of his players and it was just a matter of time.

Helluva lot of frustrated journalists after that pres conference - lot's of obfuscation from RA

That was defo squeaky bum time for squeaky....

I loved the question....So what actually IS your job title etc...ha ha ha

It's a very sad day for English rugby and for MJ personally. The chaos at the top has spread throughout the set up to detriment of the game. If I had my way MJ would have declared himself available through to the end if the 6 Nations to give time for restructuring at the top (if it is going to happen) and a chance to see if those changes impacted on his own position. This isn't going to happen now and I am not happy about it. He has done an amazing job given his lack of experience and the environment he has worked in. Just as he is starting to get some sort of experience he has gone. Shame. I am not convinced that the RFU is going to change in any meaningful way. Too many vested interests interfering. RA, the odious little man he is should never have been appointed. I didn't like him as a player, thought he was worse than useless at Newcastle and has continued in the same vane at the RFU, not another piece of deadwood but the worm that eats the good wood away.
But we are where we are and I guess that Mallinder of the home coaches or Mallet of the international ones would be my best choices. Guess we will have to wait and see.

damngoodOvalball wrote:

DOD wrote:Yes a really sad day....

Deaglan is still a bit sensitive because MJ's refusal to back down in 2003 meant that some old Irish biddy had to get her shoes a bit muddy.

Let it go fella! I'm sure she has forgiven him....

Not at all oval...thought that one was particularly funny...Johnson managed England like his personality and playing style, dull, a little bit violent and lacking in any intelligence...

Indeed...but are reigning 6n champs....now imagine when we get someone with experience and intelligence to lead england.....

I am sorry for Martin Johnson, he did not have any experience in the coaching side of things when he came into the England set up. But i dont think he was brought in to be a coach, he was brought in to Manage the team not coach it.

I see Rob Andrew who i believe is partialy to blame for Johnson quitting, because if he had not quit on his own he would of been forced out by Rob Andrew, is still keeping his job.

I only hope that whoever takes over does have the skills in coaching to get the best out of the England team.

.

Obviously...........its irrelevant when we are not playing that well.....

Actually, I'm going to delete that post, it seems churlish given what's happened today. Sorry.

Andrew was stupid enough to paint himself into a corner with this and his last act - being the censure of Tindal (that the manager chose not to instigate himself) - intentionally made Jonno look weak.

I am a huge fan of Johnson but it would have been very strange if he'd stayed, particularly as his win percentage was only marginally (and I'm talking 2-4%) better than Ashton's, who got the chop after advancing considerably further in a World Cup.

No whe has gone the RFU can recruit some new blood...Sean edwards for example woudl be a good signing

What do you guys think? Will Johnson coach again?

Yes, i think that he will. MJ is a very clever man and he will have learnt a great deal from his experiences. Its a shame that he isnt staying on as i really thought that he had the potential to be very good.

Rob Andrew, who has overseen three England managers during his time at Twickenham, said he would not be following Johnson in leaving his job.

"I'm absolutely not considering resigning. In terms of the department and the structure of the professional game - that's my role in this," he said.

"My job is to run the department, not just the playing side of things."

So is this the reason why Rob Andrew keeps sticking his nose in every time an England Manager/Coach does not win a Rugby World Cup?


When is Rob Andrew anjd the RFU going to realise, that England are not New Zealand. ENGLAND ARE NOT EXPECTED TO WIN EVERY GAME.

Er yes they are

but it goes even further

They must win and win well against poor opposition e.g. Georgia

they must not look poor even though they win against opposition playing at 110% e.g. Scotland

They must not look utterly lost in a big game and lose a game they could have won e.g. France

England expects and don't you forget it!

Gatts wrote:Er yes they are

but it goes even further

They must win and win well against poor opposition e.g. Georgia

they must not look poor even though they win against opposition playing at 110% e.g. Scotland

They must not look utterly lost in a big game and lose a game they could have won e.g. France

England expects and don't you forget it!

I didn't expect to win the 6 Nations last time round but we were the best team.

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:

Gatts wrote:Er yes they are

but it goes even further

They must win and win well against poor opposition e.g. Georgia

they must not look poor even though they win against opposition playing at 110% e.g. Scotland

They must not look utterly lost in a big game and lose a game they could have won e.g. France

England expects and don't you forget it!

I didn't expect to win the 6 Nations last time round but we were the best team.

mmm, arguably and by 'winning' it you of course can claim that but in my view England failed under pressure and by losing a Slam opportunity heralded the beginning of the end for MJ and tells you everything about where England are today

England have Rob Andrew and Wales have Pickering.Both come across as self-serving sleaze-balls.Unpleasant people who hopefully one day will get what is due.MJ was never right for the job and whoever appointed him should go if they havent gone already in the debacle that is the RFU.

[quote="Gatts"]

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:

Gatts wrote:Er yes they are

but it goes even further

They must win and win well against poor opposition e.g. Georgia

they must not look poor even though they win against opposition playing at 110% e.g. Scotland

They must not look utterly lost in a big game and lose a game they could have won e.g. France

England expects and don't you forget it!

I didn't expect to win the 6 Nations last time round but we were the best team.[/

mmm, arguably and by 'winning' it you of course can claim that but in my view England failed under pressure and by losing a Slam opportunity heralded the beginning of the end for MJ and tells you everything about where England are today

England today are favourites with France to win this 6Nations.

[quote="BigTrevsbigmac"]

Gatts wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:

Gatts wrote:Er yes they are

but it goes even further

They must win and win well against poor opposition e.g. Georgia

they must not look poor even though they win against opposition playing at 110% e.g. Scotland

They must not look utterly lost in a big game and lose a game they could have won e.g. France

England expects and don't you forget it!

I didn't expect to win the 6 Nations last time round but we were the best team.[/

mmm, arguably and by 'winning' it you of course can claim that but in my view England failed under pressure and by losing a Slam opportunity heralded the beginning of the end for MJ and tells you everything about where England are today

England today are favourites with France to win this 6Nations.

Oh completely and Wales will get the spoon

Always did prefer Burger king

I don't think you will get the spoon but some may wish.

[quote="BigTrevsbigmac"][quote="Gatts"]

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:

Gatts wrote:Er yes they are

but it goes even further

They must win and win well against poor opposition e.g. Georgia

they must not look poor even though they win against opposition playing at 110% e.g. Scotland

They must not look utterly lost in a big game and lose a game they could have won e.g. France

England expects and don't you forget it!

I didn't expect to win the 6 Nations last time round but we were the best team.[/

mmm, arguably and by 'winning' it you of course can claim that but in my view England failed under pressure and by losing a Slam opportunity heralded the beginning of the end for MJ and tells you everything about where England are today

England today are favourites with France to win this 6Nations.[/quoteWell put your mortgage on that then!

I haven't got one

you haven't got a clue if you think england or france are favourites for the 6ns

england will be lucky to beat Ireland and with all the carp going on in the rear echelons i predict a 4th place for them

A lot can happen in 2 months.
Look at Wales they are world beaters all of a sudden.

The bookies aren't biased like you and I

careful you are turning into a cliche

this isn't about wales

but since you asked

if we can beat Ireland away then the momentum will be there and i see no reason why March 17 in cardiff will not be a GS decider

i have absolutely no doubt we will beat England at home

just watched PC

you can hear the emotion in his voice and the sentimentalist in me thinks another victim of England's debacle of a Union and more than that he is victim of the misbehaviour of the english players

hopefully he will join wales as forwards coach!!

http://sport.uk.msn.com/blog/james-haskell-blogpost.aspx?post=28f99770-f412-4ff4-a56d-334ae02adc7b&_nwpt=1

Might of guessed that it wouldn't take Haskell long to shove his mouth in. He's such a prat.

"Johnno will go down in history as a winner and a great manager"

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:The bookies aren't biased like you and I

Surprised that you missed the WC as it was on ITV.England were pants.They have lost their Captain and Manager.The RFU are in meltdown.Yes,I think I can see where your optimism is coming from.

Notcie he still has loyalty and didn't blame the players or their antics, pity the players themselves didn't show same when in NZ.

So England will have a new coach less than two months before the 6N? How good could they possibly do with a new man in charge with no connection to the team? And no connection or experience with the players?

TaffinE & Gatts have they ever been seen together in the same room?

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:TaffinE & Gatts have they ever been seen together in the same room?

have you ever been seen in Burger King?

Its the wrong tree and you are barking up it

And cue Taff