Castres v Munster Teams and Discussion

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Munster:
01 Wian du Preez
02 Damien Varley
03 BJ Botha
04 Donnacha Ryan
05 Paul O'Connell
06 Peter O'Mahony
07 Niall Ronan
08 James Coughlan
09 Conor Murray
10 Ronan O'Gara
11 Denis Hurley
12 Lifeimi Mafi
13 Danny Barnes
14 Doug Howlett
15 Johne Murphy

16 Denis Fogarty
17 Marcus Horan
18 John Hayes
19 Donnacha O'Callaghan
20 Denis Leamy
21 Tomas O'Leary
22 Ian Keatley
23 Will Chambers

Castres:
01 Anton Peikrishvili
02 Brice Mach
03 Karena Wihongi
04 Scott Murray
05 Joe Tekori
06 Jannie Bornmann
07 Chris Masoe
08 Yannick Caballero
09 Thierry Lacrampe
10 Pierre Bernard
11 Marc Andreau
12 Pierre-Emmanuel Garcia
13 Paul Bonnefond
14 Max Evans
15 Florian Denos

16 Mathieu Bonello
17 Michael Coetzee
18 Luc Ducalcon
19 Matthias Rolland
20 Rodrigo Capo Ortega
21 Romain Teulet
22 Rémy Talès
23 Pierre-Gilles Lakafia


Waiting to see Castres team. Pity to see that Niall Ronan is still included. A very strong bench which was as key last week as O'Garas kick.

Now thats what Chambers is all about..

Stupid. Barnes said break away. That may cost Munster

Our discipline is apalling

Munster fans, we have found a centre. Would you listen to the ref lads Jesus christ.

Not straight in a million years

Can Munster do it 2 weeks in a row?

Oh my god. Well done ROG

You have GOT to be kidding me!!!

Again with a DG?!?!

2 WEEKS IN A ROW - O'GARA = Loving life

hahahahahahahahah

Is all I have to say about that DG.

He's only gone and done it again!

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhaaaa ha ha ha

ROG you beauty! Lot of problems with that performance but great win. That was a harder kick aswell!

Thomond wrote:Quinny wore 6 but he did all the work of an openside. Same as POM.

Quinlan played blindside flanker and did a lot of the dirty work. That doesn't make him an openside though.. he wore 6 and played blindside, he was a work horse (similar to Richard Hill). POM is a different player to Quinlan though, I think he has some of Quinlan's qualities but he also is a very aggressive ball carrier and good at breaking the gain line. I don't know his best position but I don't think he is a natural openside. Quinlan wasn't an openside either, so you're point about him also doesn't make a whole lot of sense..

I am not saying he won't be the openside for Munster/Ireland. Though I don't think he will play there when Wallace returns firstly, and from what I have seen he had his best game at 8 and has had great games at 6 also. However I am not saying he will be a 7 just because of our lack of a good genuine 7. To me, the cries for him to be the next openside just shows our desperation.

Mmmmm bit of a steal there but got to hand it to ROG.

Bloody hell! Munster really were made for this stuff. Never liked ROG but the guy is phenomenal. Good job the lads in red

He was though, a groundhog at the breakdown and a cheeky little fecker. Quinny did for us what Jennings does for Leinster.

Also this match sounds like it was good. I think it is being shown later on TG4 or something.. can anyone confirm this for me? If so I shall definitely be watching it!

Who was that Chambers lad as well? Looked very tidy

Thomond wrote:He was though, a groundhog at the breakdown and a cheeky little fecker. Quinny did for us what Jennings does for Leinster.

I agree, except he did it at blindside.. I still don't get it. You are saying someone who played blindside and played 6 is an openside. That doesn't make any sense Thomond. It doesn't really matter to me who does it at 6 or at 7, but just because someone does a lot of work doesn't make them an openside. Is BOD an openside? Nope.. yet he is fantastic at the breakdown.

He is an aussie Hood, played RL and then switched to Union playing for the reds. A real talent and he is still only 22/23

Rory..if you want to talk about whether POM is anything other than a 7 start a thread please...

Poor enough performance from Munster, made too many mistakes but plenty to work on again. POM was great again took the ball up well contested the breakdown and scored a good try and Ronan in fairness had a good game.

Will Chambers former Queensland Red was on the bench in the Super 15 final. Ex- league. I think he is elligble for Ireland on residency if he decides to stay. Munster will be on TG4 i would imagine as will Ulster and Connacht starts at 21:00 finishes at 00:00
He does the work of an openside that's why we call him a 7.

Like I said so does BOD.. Must be a munster thing where the number 6 actually means 7..

Fair enough DOD, I'll leave you to enjoy your victory boys

You think it will be all 3 matches Thomond? I think it was just Connacht and Munster's matches. Surely Ulster wouldn't feature?

These past two weeks may make me have to rewrite everything I think of ROG...

BOD doesn't hit every breakdown like a regular openside now does he? POM does. He is a good support runner, good tackler, vicious at the breakdown, tough as nails and gets over the gainline. That described POM over the past 2 weeks and most top opensides. Why wouldn't Ulster feature? The show is 3 hours long! They showed Ulster last week.

Controversial, but perhaps if Keatley had played ROG wouldn't have to do these match winning drop goals to save the day? Keatley I think is more creative. Just a thought!

Thomond wrote:BOD doesn't hit every breakdown like a regular openside now does he? POM does. He is a good support runner, good tackler, vicious at the breakdown, tough as nails and gets over the gainline. That described POM over the past 2 weeks and most top opensides. Why wouldn't Ulster feature? The show is 3 hours long! They showed Ulster last week.

Agree to disagree I guess. I think POM is an all arounder who to me looks best so far at 8 and I am most impressed with his aggression in contact.

That is what I mean, 3 hours to show 3 games? Unless my math is wrong (very possible), they would only have the chance to show 2 matches. Or is it highlights? I know it shows the Connacht and Munster match, haven't heard about Ulster.

If we kept our head cut out the mistakes and insane play we mightn't need ROG either. It's extended highlights not the full match. You get more than is necessary.

Fair enough, cheers Thomond!

Was thinking keatley at about 60 mins rory but what can you say about rog. Regarding pom the try was a classic mccaw try and he does hit every breakdown /tackle situation.

Remember seeing him at 17 and sitting up and taking notice, same at 19 playing ail with con and munster a and now the seniors. He is a year behind but that is due to a serious neck injury last year. This guy will just get better as he gets older and more experience. Next Irish captain...i'm telling ya. Even Quinlan was wetting his pants about him

DOD wrote:Was thinking keatley at about 60 mins rory but what can you say about rog. Regarding pom the try was a classic mccaw try and he does hit every breakdown /tackle situation.

Remember seeing him at 17 and sitting up and taking notice, same at 19 playing ail with con and munster a and now the seniors. He is a year behind but that is due to a serious neck injury last year. This guy will just get better as he gets older and more experience. Next Irish captain...i'm telling ya. Even Quinlan was wetting his pants about him

Poc will probably be the next Irish captain but it wouldn't surprise me if POM got the job at some point. He was absolutely outstanding today in every aspect of the game, when munster had to defend he was making more tackles than anyone else when munster were on the attack he was making the hard yards. He always seems to be the right place to mop up loose ball and he will be pushing hard for a place in the 22 come the 6nations.

I was pleasantly surprised by how well Ronan played made some turnovers that he had no right to but he is still underpowered and missed three tackles in the first 10mins. When leamy came on he started making yards and I really feel he should be starting, and if Ronan has to play then start Pom at 8 and put leamy in his best position.

The substitution of ryan and murray didn't make sense to me and i really dislike the fact that McGahan seems to have preplanned subs that don't take into account how the game is going. Tol made some stupid mistakes when he came on and he still looks low on confidence. Doc didn't do anything that Ryan hadn't been doing and I think that Ryan deserved to finish the match.

Barnes had a poor match but I'm sure he'll learn from it and improve. Chambers was impressive when he came on, he is always looking for the offload and munster need to have players running off his shoulder to take advantage of this, with a bit of luck the return of earls will see this.

Rog was very poor for the majority of the match but you wouldn't want anyone else there in the last minute.

Poc was immense again, just behind Pom for motm imo, when he dived headfirst to capture a loose ball it really summed him up, fearless and totally committed to winning.

It was a strange atmosphere in the ground today, the stadium wasn't quite full and it was weird with all the usual toulouse signs covered over, the castres crowd was more subdued than usual. Met quinlan after the match, I presume he was working for sky or rte because he had a press pass but only got to talk to him for a minute, nice fellow.

They should build a statue of ROG in Limerick. Has there ever been anyone better at the last minute drop goal?

Just saw the game.. ROG, probably in the twilight of his career is really going out in style. He is so cool headed, a complete legend. This is coming from someone who has criticised him many times. He still has a lot to offer Ireland, probably from the bench behind Sexton but he is such a useful player. I hope Keatley learns a lot from him, and can have the same impact.

About POM also, who I watched very carefully due to a lot of what DOD has said about him. I am just going to say, I don't understand why you think he is a 7 DOD. In that match, there was one groundhog, and it was Ronan. He was at the bottom of every ruck, and I think he played really well. As for POM, he was everywhere, he was a monster. Really really impressive game, but seriously he wasn't in all that many rucks. He wrecked havoc elsewhere. His try wasn't a "7" try either as you said, which I assume you mean that he was the support player. He wasn't, he just spotted a gap and exploited it himself. Great try. More like a wingers try than anything!

Well done to Munster though!

Rory i refer to what the earlier poster said regarding tackles, breakdown etc. Ronan did ok on a couple of occasions but was out of it for a lot of the game. Pom plays like mccaw in terms of the breakdown. I dont care where pom plays once he is left to play his natural game and he is in the Irish team next spring. The main aspect of his game was the amount of ball he secured tonight at the breakdown, which is one of the first jobs of an openside i believe.

Val o'gara played well overall, not sure where you could find fault with his game, great passing and kicking from hand (you must be a worried leinster supporter). Ryan was ok if anonymous for a lot of the game and was overpowered in the first half. Tol is a great option at the moment and like last week speeded up the play significantly. Passing looks very crisp. Would prefer leamy at 6 with pom at 7 its a more balanced backrow. Chambers is showing why he should start and is growing into the role.

Well honestly I think you should re-watch the game, you must be mixing him up with Ronan. Seriously, please watch again and keep an eye on him. I made sure I had my glasses on for this one, so I could see if you were right or not about his attributes to play 7. If you were, I would have told you, honestly. However, he was a monster all around the park, and I think we should both agree we are impressed with the guy.

Agree with Rory Niall ronan must have been close to mom for a complete 7 performance 3 vital turnovers in the last 15 minutes which saved our bacon. Pom can play 6 7 or 8 but for he is a 6 or 8. He was brilliant today

What an important win today should have won by more but sets up a massive game in wales

Munste Munster munster

LondonTiger wrote:They should build a statue of ROG in Limerick. Has there ever been anyone better at the last minute drop goal?

As a Corkman he would find that thought both very humbling and hilarious at the same time.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Well honestly I think you should re-watch the game, you must be mixing him up with Ronan. Seriously, please watch again and keep an eye on him. I made sure I had my glasses on for this one, so I could see if you were right or not about his attributes to play 7. If you were, I would have told you, honestly. However, he was a monster all around the park, and I think we should both agree we are impressed with the guy.

I just did (in full thanks to tg4) and it hasnt changed my mind. Look rory we are going to have to agree he plays well and disagree on what his ideal position is. Like i said he can play any of the br positions, i am 100% convinced that his natural game is as a 7. In french or south african terms it wouldnt matter as they just say left or right flanker. Either way thats two outstanding games ina row..

DOD wrote:Rory i refer to what the earlier poster said regarding tackles, breakdown etc. Ronan did ok on a couple of occasions but was out of it for a lot of the game. Pom plays like mccaw in terms of the breakdown. I dont care where pom plays once he is left to play his natural game and he is in the Irish team next spring. The main aspect of his game was the amount of ball he secured tonight at the breakdown, which is one of the first jobs of an openside i believe.

Val o'gara played well overall, not sure where you could find fault with his game, great passing and kicking from hand (you must be a worried leinster supporter). Ryan was ok if anonymous for a lot of the game and was overpowered in the first half. Tol is a great option at the moment and like last week speeded up the play significantly. Passing looks very crisp. Would prefer leamy at 6 with pom at 7 its a more balanced backrow. Chambers is showing why he should start and is growing into the role.

Rog was average at best, he has no control of the backline, missed three drop goal attempts and in general took the wrong option too often. I don't support Leinster and I've no idea where you could have got that idea. The first thing tol did when he came on was take too much out of the ball and get tackled and lose control of it, the second thing was to pass behind o'gara and the third was to get blocked down trying a box kick. The reason the play sped up was more to do with the introduction of leamy and the fact that the forwards started clearing out properly whereas murray had to go digging in the rucks for the ball.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Well honestly I think you should re-watch the game, you must be mixing him up with Ronan. Seriously, please watch again and keep an eye on him. I made sure I had my glasses on for this one, so I could see if you were right or not about his attributes to play 7. If you were, I would have told you, honestly. However, he was a monster all around the park, and I think we should both agree we are impressed with the guy.

Ronan did very well but of the turnovers he made two were by stripping the tackler, he also missed a number of tackles and although he was impressive he still has too many faults in his game to ever make it consistently at this level.

Rory, I was at the game today and on Pom, I spent about ten minutes just following him and he was immense and of course he wasn't doing the role of a 7 today, he wasn't playing as a 7. He was immense though and there were a number of occasions where he was at the bottom of the rucks slowing down the ball and not getting penalised for it. If you want to judge his attributes as a 7 you really have to see him play there, he showed some of the attributes of a 7 today but he wasn't playing there so he wouldn't be playing exactly like a 7.

Indeed val ogara had two attempts, it was murphy for the other. Overall his kicking from hand was very good, had a couple of sublime passes in attack and given it was a poor overall performance by munster i think he played well enough and was one of the better munster players.

Of course you are right about tol and leamy, i must have been mistaken about who was playing sh but clearly leamy was very good at speeding up the service to the backline (did it on a number of occasions) and getting munster moving especially in the lead up to the dg. Great pass by leamy for the dg as well. Funny how he has lost a bit of weight and looks like he has quickened up a bit.

Couldn't give a shoite who you follow but its clear you dont follow munster or tol, rog or doc for that matter

valjester wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Well honestly I think you should re-watch the game, you must be mixing him up with Ronan. Seriously, please watch again and keep an eye on him. I made sure I had my glasses on for this one, so I could see if you were right or not about his attributes to play 7. If you were, I would have told you, honestly. However, he was a monster all around the park, and I think we should both agree we are impressed with the guy.

Ronan did very well but of the turnovers he made two were by stripping the tackler, he also missed a number of tackles and although he was impressive he still has too many faults in his game to ever make it consistently at this level.

Rory, I was at the game today and on Pom, I spent about ten minutes just following him and he was immense and of course he wasn't doing the role of a 7 today, he wasn't playing as a 7. He was immense though and there were a number of occasions where he was at the bottom of the rucks slowing down the ball and not getting penalised for it. If you want to judge his attributes as a 7 you really have to see him play there, he showed some of the attributes of a 7 today but he wasn't playing there so he wouldn't be playing exactly like a 7.

He slowed the ball down a few times yes but the groundhog of the day was Ronan. POM did great at the breakdown as well as everything else he did, but it wasn't his primary job as DOD would say. As I said earlier, BOD also shows some attributes of a 7. I think all the pack should be good at the breakdown. I don't want POM to have to take over the role as a 7 as I think his qualities are best used elsewhere, as he is a very balanced and aggressive type of player.

DOD wrote:Indeed val ogara had two attempts, it was murphy for the other. Overall his kicking from hand was very good, had a couple of sublime passes in attack and given it was a poor overall performance by munster i think he played well enough and was one of the better munster players.

Of course you are right about tol and leamy, i must have been mistaken about who was playing sh but clearly leamy was very good at speeding up the service to the backline (did it on a number of occasions) and getting munster moving especially in the lead up to the dg. Great pass by leamy for the dg as well. Funny how he has lost a bit of weight and looks like he has quickened up a bit.

Couldn't give a shoite who you follow but its clear you dont follow munster or tol, rog or doc for that matter

If you don't want to bother reading my post, its not my fault if you can't understand what I said.

I clearly said that the reason that the ball sped up was because leamy and the pack started providing clean quick ball something that murray wasn't getting. When tol got the ball he had the ability to pass quickly but he didn't instead he took steps and was caught a few times. Murray passed as soon as he got the ball in his hands but on a number of times he had to reach into the ruck and fight to get the ball out. If you want to disagree with me no need to be an as**ole about it.

Do you think Leamy should start Val? Personally I think he should.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

He slowed the ball down a few times yes but the groundhog of the day was Ronan. POM did great at the breakdown as well as everything else he did, but it wasn't his primary job as DOD would say. As I said earlier, BOD also shows some attributes of a 7. I think all the pack should be good at the breakdown. I don't want POM to have to take over the role as a 7 as I think his qualities are best used elsewhere, as he is a very balanced and aggressive type of player.

Yes it wasn't his primary role because he wasn't playing 7 yesterday. We both agree that POM is best suited to being a 8 but where we disagree is that I think it could do a more than adequate job as a 7, a 7 doesn't have to conform to a defined role. Flankers can play left and right as well as traditional (only in some countries) role of a 6 and 7. A 7 doesn't have to conform to the groundhog role, something which ronan most definitely isn't. Look at the turnovers he made today, they were either through stripping the ball in the tackle or by being the tackler and stealing the ball before a ruck has formed. These are completely different to the groundhog steal that mccaw and pocock do. Off the Irish players the best players at forcing those type of turnovers is POC, he is excellent at being second one after a tackle and stealing the ball or forcing a turnover. Players can play the same position in different ways, there doesn't have to be a right or wrong way about playing it.

Edit; On leamy I think he should start, as I said earlier, I think either a Leamy-POM-Coughlan or Leamy-Ronan-POM combination would be a lot stronger than what was out today.

Great win by Munster! POM was central to it and as such must begin to come into Ireland reckoning. He looks like a natural seven to me and needs to play there regularly. No harm to Ronan but he's not Test class, and the sooner McGahan gets POM to play 7 the better.

I especially agree what you say about players playing the same position in different ways. That is why it is confusing me with everyone saying POM scored like a 7 today.. what does that even mean? And people saying Quinlan was actually a 7. For example I prefer the way Munster do it actually, with Quinlan and Wallace working together as a pair. I believe Leamy and Wallace are similar, and with POM at 8 I think Munster may have potentially the best backrow in the HEC, including Leinster.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:I especially agree what you say about players playing the same position in different ways. That is why it is confusing me with everyone saying POM scored like a 7 today.. what does that even mean? And people saying Quinlan was actually a 7. For example I prefer the way Munster do it actually, with Quinlan and Wallace working together as a pair. I believe Leamy and Wallace are similar, and with POM at 8 I think Munster may have potentially the best backrow in the HEC, including Leinster.

I think that quinlan did a lot of the work that you'd expect a 7 to do and wasn't a bruising 6 in the mould of leamy, ferris or sob and was much more of a footballer. I think people are saying that the try POM scored was similar to how mccaw often scores, I honestly don't see how its a typical 7 try but its similar to how mccaw has run a few tries in. Don't think that munster backrow will be the strongest.