Castres v Munster Teams and Discussion

First topic message reminder :

Munster:
01 Wian du Preez
02 Damien Varley
03 BJ Botha
04 Donnacha Ryan
05 Paul O'Connell
06 Peter O'Mahony
07 Niall Ronan
08 James Coughlan
09 Conor Murray
10 Ronan O'Gara
11 Denis Hurley
12 Lifeimi Mafi
13 Danny Barnes
14 Doug Howlett
15 Johne Murphy

16 Denis Fogarty
17 Marcus Horan
18 John Hayes
19 Donnacha O'Callaghan
20 Denis Leamy
21 Tomas O'Leary
22 Ian Keatley
23 Will Chambers

Castres:
01 Anton Peikrishvili
02 Brice Mach
03 Karena Wihongi
04 Scott Murray
05 Joe Tekori
06 Jannie Bornmann
07 Chris Masoe
08 Yannick Caballero
09 Thierry Lacrampe
10 Pierre Bernard
11 Marc Andreau
12 Pierre-Emmanuel Garcia
13 Paul Bonnefond
14 Max Evans
15 Florian Denos

16 Mathieu Bonello
17 Michael Coetzee
18 Luc Ducalcon
19 Matthias Rolland
20 Rodrigo Capo Ortega
21 Romain Teulet
22 Rémy Talès
23 Pierre-Gilles Lakafia


Waiting to see Castres team. Pity to see that Niall Ronan is still included. A very strong bench which was as key last week as O'Garas kick.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:I especially agree what you say about players playing the same position in different ways. That is why it is confusing me with everyone saying POM scored like a 7 today.. what does that even mean? And people saying Quinlan was actually a 7. For example I prefer the way Munster do it actually, with Quinlan and Wallace working together as a pair. I believe Leamy and Wallace are similar, and with POM at 8 I think Munster may have potentially the best backrow in the HEC, including Leinster.

So is that a Leamy at 6,Wallace at 7 and POM at 8? id say thats still 3rd best in ireland let alone europe.

For me POM should be played at 7 not because i think thats were hes best suited but because ronan is the weak link in their backrow and until wallace comes back thats where he should play. if he grows into the role than great if not i think hell still make it.

Anyone else think rog was poor (mainly kicking wise) he missed 2 drop goals and a quite easy penalty? but having said that theres no one id rather have taking the drop goal to finish a match.

Chambers played well again when he came on but i still think mafi and he, lack penetration when playing together (basing this on the few pro12 games ive seen them in). wouldnt mind seeing keatley at 12 and chambers at 13 in some of the up coming games.

Val now you are saying oleary was taking a step before passing, i see you are falling back on the old ones. What is clear is that with tol speeding up delivery and moving the ball from the breakdown added to chambers straight running the backline looked more effective. Regardless of what you think we quite like tol here in munster. Its useful having the best two sh in ireland.

Keatley at 12... Yes lets put the new oh out of position. Keatley needs to play himself into the oh position and on current form thats not going to happen

Off topic a bit but pretty happy that Alan Quinlan has joined the Irish times rugby writers team. Look forward to his analysis in his column next Wednesday. Always enjoy his punditry.

I would like to see Keatley play at 12 in the Rabo. Could add some creativity to our backline. Murray is guilty of taking a step too, TOL was a key component of the win he got good protection but gave quick ball. I've seen the step creep into Murray's game a bit.

Golden wrote:
So is that a Leamy at 6,Wallace at 7 and POM at 8? id say thats still 3rd best in ireland let alone europe.

For me POM should be played at 7 not because i think thats were hes best suited but because ronan is the weak link in their backrow and until wallace comes back thats where he should play. if he grows into the role than great if not i think hell still make it.

Anyone else think rog was poor (mainly kicking wise) he missed 2 drop goals and a quite easy penalty? but having said that theres no one id rather have taking the drop goal to finish a match.

Chambers played well again when he came on but i still think mafi and he, lack penetration when playing together (basing this on the few pro12 games ive seen them in). wouldnt mind seeing keatley at 12 and chambers at 13 in some of the up coming games.

Yeah Leamy blindside, Wallace openside and POM number 8.

3rd best in Ireland? Who would you put above it? I'm guessing you mean Ulster and Leinster. Ulster have had a very poor backrow this season until the return of Ferris and the form of Henry. I think Ferris is the best backrow Ireland have, but Wannenburg and Henry are not in the same class (though Henry is playing great atm). As for Leinster, Heaslip is not playing so great while Jennings is just not world class. He does great for Leinster but I much prefer Wallace. O'Brien is the second best backrow in Ireland, so he is their main strength.

The reason I like the combination Munster could play when Wallace returns is the balance. Also I actually rate Wallace in his prime as one of our best players, and he was playing exceptional rugby before his injury.

Unbelievable. Well done that man ROG again. Great result for Munster and they showed real hunger and determination to fight back for the second game running.

O'Mahoney had another big game and Chambers was sensational. Doug Howlett showed his class again too.

IMO Munster need to sign a backrow. I've been beating this drum for a while and will continue to do so.

I thought Howlett was actually quite poor Rodders. He was poor positioning, missed a few tackles, got turned over a couple of times.

I was impressed by Niall Ronan and Wian du Preez - two players I have written off early this season - so I was glad of that.

I'm delighted to have got 2 wins on the trot but I haven't been happy overall with either performance. I will be glad to see David Wallace, Keith Earls, Felix Jones come back into the team along with Mike Sherry/Jerry Flannery.

Fair enough Stag, Howlett scored another crucial try though. Yeah Ronan did well. O'Mahoney was superb, did he get concussed?

When Munster get Earls, Jones, Wallace and Flannery back they will have pretty strong squad alright. Varley has been playing well too.

Munster need to keep it going though with Scarlets going so well it is all to play for. There's plenty to be positive about for Munster though.

Yes actually - Varley deserves a mention too.

We won't have the injured boys back for the back to back against Scarlets. I'd be annoyed if we can't get 2 wins.

DOD wrote:Val now you are saying oleary was taking a step before passing, i see you are falling back on the old ones. What is clear is that with tol speeding up delivery and moving the ball from the breakdown added to chambers straight running the backline looked more effective. Regardless of what you think we quite like tol here in munster. Its useful having the best two sh in ireland.

Keatley at 12... Yes lets put the new oh out of position. Keatley needs to play himself into the oh position and on current form thats not going to happen

Now? I was saying that at the beginning, just because you are choosing to misinterpret what I'm saying doesn't mean I'm moving the goalpost. The best scrumhalf in Ireland is Pienaar and if you're counting Irish scrumhalfs the world cup squad and form for the last two years would suggest that Tol isn't in the top two no matter how much you like him.

red_stag wrote:IMO Munster need to sign a backrow. I've been beating this drum for a while and will continue to do so.

I thought Howlett was actually quite poor Rodders. He was poor positioning, missed a few tackles, got turned over a couple of times.

I was impressed by Niall Ronan and Wian du Preez - two players I have written off early this season - so I was glad of that.

I'm delighted to have got 2 wins on the trot but I haven't been happy overall with either performance. I will be glad to see David Wallace, Keith Earls, Felix Jones come back into the team along with Mike Sherry/Jerry Flannery.

Howlett positioning was actually quite good stag, they were just exceptional kicks. The only mistake he really made was the poor kick off his left foot. Last week he was poor for some of the northhampton tries but he is still a class act, the time he got turned over was due to poor support.

Have to say i thought Munster were very good yesterday and should have won by more.

Both props i thought were conspicuous around the park but especially Du Preez
Varley had a good niggly game
O'Connell was immense ably supported by Ryan
POM was MOTM again for me. Excellent player and should be involved in the 6N
Ronan and Coughlan were decent but outshone by POM

This is were i struggle to give ratings as i dont think their backs were that convincing. Does that stem from half back or simply individual errors. ROG deserves a mention for the drop goal. Reminds me of when Man Utd used to score in the last minute and everyone referred to them as 'lucky'. Happens too often to be lucky for me.

Barnes had a difficult day in contact and chambers was a big improvement.
Mafi did some lovely things but butchered a certain try.
Hurley and Murphy mixed good and bad iirc but the game was won up front for me. I actually missed the Castres scores so im not sure who was at fault

The thing is O'Leary performance always seems to be looked at forensically by some. Those who dont rate him will never give credit to what he does well which are many things. He did not step for the pass for the dg and his passing overall was good. He also moved the ball from the breakdown at speed, usually moving it quickly through taking it up and spreadingthe ball out the backline. This week as with last week he made a significant contribution to the outcome of the game. If he continues like this he will be in the 6ns squad mainly because redden and boss are journeymen tol is a better overall player and kidney rates him. At the moment having both Murray and TOL as options is great.

Forwards did ok but lots of mistakes all round. Decision making was poor all over the park. It was clear castres were fanning across the field and were soft around the tackle area. When we took the ball up the middle we made acres of ground and on occasion should gave kept it tight in the red zone.

For scarlets would like chambers to start. He runs hard and straightlike a good rugby league back and has that upper body strength to shake off tacklers. Mafi is still important to us and pur best option. Howlett was ok but not brilliant but scored when it mattered and nearly got two.

Lots to work on, mcgahan is using his squad well but i believe axel has a big say in this. Keep watching POM, he actually can and will play better.

When all are fit would like to see jones instead of murphy, i would keep hurley and midfield combo of chambers at 12 and earls outside him.

If wally is back he pom and coughlan would be my first choice, dont care about the numbers on their back ( think french/sa left and right flankers)

SA still play openside and blindside DOD, just they swap the numbers. 6 plays on the open, 7 on the blindside. Not sure why.

Dont think so rory like the french they just say left and right.

No no DOD, you have this wrong :P they play their opensides at 6 and blindsides at 7. Look it up mate!

If we had another HEC match this Saturday I'd be looking for:

Du Preez, Varley, Botha
Ryan, O'Connell
O'Mahony, Leamy, Ronan
Murray, O'Gara
Hurley, Mafi, Chambers, Howlett
Murphy

Fogarty, Horan, Hayes, O'Callaghan, Coughlan, O'Leary, Keatley, Barnes

O'Leary though could still earn a starting spot over the next 3-4 weeks. Chambers and Mafi must work together - Barnes has looked a bit lost in last two weeks. HEC is a big step up from the Pro 12. The backrow could literally be any number of options. Wouldn't even surprise me if we saw:

04 O'Callaghan
05 O'Connell
06 Ryan
07 O'Mahony
08 Leamy

coming out to face Scarlets. As DOD said this HEC is a real squad effort.

I wouldnt drop Coughlan rs. He worked his socks off on sat. Not as effective as the saints game when pom just pipped him for motm. I think that he is/has been more effective than leamy for some time now

Leamy has impressed me greatly when he has come on. Coughlan I found to be the least effective of our backrows and I felt Leamy had the better game. He has earned his shot and to be fair to Ronan as much as I hate him he did well.

Have to say I have been impressed by Leamy lately. I think he still has a lot to offer both Munster and Ireland.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Have to say I have been impressed by Leamy lately. I think he still has a lot to offer both Munster and Ireland.

Agree sometimes a guy just needs to sit on a bench for a few important games to shake him out of apathy.

Depsite being so experience he is still in his late 20s. He has loads to offer.

Ronan was impressive with ball in hand but i feel Coughlan does too much of the donkey work (a bit like axel used) that he wont be dropped, also because axel is forwards coach and Coughlan is his type of player. I would put the argument that Coughlan is axels first player on the teamsheet and while leamy is looking good when he comes on i dont think he will start.

What woild you think of a chambers /earls centre partnership?

Id be happy to try it. I think we have major experimentation to do at centre in Pro 12

I do not agree with keatley at 12. He is the next oh, he needs to win it off rog

He could still win it off ROG while playing 12.. ROG plays 10 until around the 60 minute mark and then Keatley moves to 10. That way he isn't on the bench all game. I like the idea.

Lots of 10s start at 12 and move to pivot. Wilkinson Carter Cooper Flood